Guardian compensation - Page 3 - Dragon Saga Community Chat - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Guardian compensation


  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

#51 Kazu731

Kazu731

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 3347 posts
  • LocationSky Garden
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Sky Garden

Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:43 AM

I don't see how this can be considered balancing.

Now newer players who didn't buy guardian sets have an advantage cause everyone who just bought a set just lost a crap ton of gold.

Wheres my justice?

I remember the facepalm I did when I read the forum post about the guardian nerf and how I just bought a FG helm for 2.5k that morning.....

This is the biggest fallacy I've read yet. As opposed to the argument that "older players" who owned Guardian weapons had an unfair advantage--which was a stupid argument to begin with--now, god forbid, the NEWER players have an "unfair advantage" because anyone who had a Guardian set lost their "unfair advantage?" I have an idea: it's an unfair advantage if you have more than ten health potions! It's also an unfair advantage if you don't have ten health potions!

I love unfair advantages!
  • 1

#52 zabmaru

zabmaru

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1403 posts
  • LocationSome rural craphole
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:59 AM

This is the biggest fallacy I've read yet. As opposed to the argument that "older players" who owned Guardian weapons had an unfair advantage--which was a stupid argument to begin with--now, god forbid, the NEWER players have an "unfair advantage" because anyone who had a Guardian set lost their "unfair advantage?" I have an idea: it's an unfair advantage if you have more than ten health potions! It's also an unfair advantage if you don't have ten health potions!

I love unfair advantages!


Why should I listen to you? Your name is a different color! That's unfair to me!
  • 3

#53 SpringSky

SpringSky

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:05 PM

I don't see how this can be considered balancing.

Now newer players who didn't buy guardian sets have an advantage cause everyone who just bought a set just lost a crap ton of gold.

Wheres my justice?

I remember the facepalm I did when I read the forum post about the guardian nerf and how I just bought a FG helm for 2.5k that morning.....

Agreed +1 Its an excuse from WP !! justifiable answer they came up with so the players can spend more hard earned money on IM gears !! there always be pro's and noobs in this or any other games. there is no such thing as balanced game "stats", if WP wanted to balance the game then all the players should have the same stats and skills and shouldn't have cash items "IM" on sale so everyone can be same and "BALANCED" because it wouldn't be fair "BALANCED" game for those players who cant afford IM items. And I read one of the GM's comment about they recevied a feedbacks from veterans about the guardian gears and balancing the game? if they really wanted to balance the game they should balance the opinions as well, from all the players or do a poll not from a few selected players. Its all about money money and money
  • -5

#54 Jumpluffspore

Jumpluffspore

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 823 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:18 PM

Agreed +1 Its an excuse from WP !! justifiable answer they came up with so the players can spend more hard earned money on IM gears !! there always be pro's and noobs in this or any other games. there is no such thing as balanced game "stats", if WP wanted to balance the game then all the players should have the same stats and skills and shouldn't have cash items "IM" on sale so everyone can be same and "BALANCED" because it wouldn't be fair "BALANCED" game for those players who cant afford IM items. And I read one of the GM's comment about they recevied a feedbacks from veterans about the guardian gears and balancing the game? if they really wanted to balance the game they should balance the opinions as well, from all the players or do a poll not from a few selected players. Its all about money money and money

Go spend your rage elsewhere. I don't see how WP giving away W-coins is making them money. Your argument is invalid. Stop posting now?
  • 0

#55 Squee

Squee

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 81 posts
  • LocationMichigan
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:47 PM

I got my FG set with a game card when they first came out. Anything is a win for me.
  • 3

#56 KhroxasKh

KhroxasKh

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 65 posts
  • LocationMy House? :D!
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern Duh!

Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:59 PM

I got my FG set with a game card when they first came out. Anything is a win for me.

lol you should give me ur FG/WG set after patch Lemon :P!
  • 0

#57 Squee

Squee

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 81 posts
  • LocationMichigan
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:26 PM

lol you should give me ur FG/WG set after patch Lemon :P!



Lol, sorry but I am probably going to hang on to it for sentimental reasons >.<
  • 0

#58 SpringSky

SpringSky

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:29 PM

Go spend your rage elsewhere. I don't see how WP giving away W-coins is making them money. Your argument is invalid. Stop posting now?

u better go fetch that 1 w coin and jump jumplu jumpluff awawawy brah if not WP will come and rob that 1 fat W coin and make sure u jump not run. Anyways going back to balancing the game - if WP wanted to balance the game why in heck are they having keemart event?? this event defects the purpose of balancing, its loud and clear !!! only plyaers are welcomed are the players who can spend $$$ and those who can't are out of luck because they will never be able to wear godly mufflers from the event...and this is what "BALANCING" the game is.....? LMFAO

Edited by SpringSky, 26 August 2011 - 02:29 PM.

  • -4

#59 KhroxasKh

KhroxasKh

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 65 posts
  • LocationMy House? :D!
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern Duh!

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:30 PM

u better go fetch that 1 w coin and jump wawy brah if not WP will come and rob that 1 fat W coin and make sure u jump not run. Anyways going back to balancing the game - if WP wanted to balance the game why in heck are they having keemart event?? this event defects the purpose of balancing, its loud and clear !!! only plyaers are welcomed are the players who can spend $$$ and those who can't are out of luck because they will never be able to wear godly mufflers from the event...and this is what "BALANCING" the game is.....? LMFAO

wow dude enough with the raging either get over it or just quit.
  • 0

#60 Squee

Squee

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 81 posts
  • LocationMichigan
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:33 PM

u better go fetch that 1 w coin and jump jumplu jumpluff awawawy brah if not WP will come and rob that 1 fat W coin and make sure u jump not run. Anyways going back to balancing the game - if WP wanted to balance the game why in heck are they having keemart event?? this event defects the purpose of balancing, its loud and clear !!! only plyaers are welcomed are the players who can spend $$$ and those who can't are out of luck because they will never be able to wear godly mufflers from the event...and this is what "BALANCING" the game is.....? LMFAO



The only thing I agree with is your sig... its so cute!
  • 0

#61 igozuvi

igozuvi

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • RO Fungineering
  • 657 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Gurlz
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic Loki

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:39 PM

only plyaers are welcomed are the players who can spend $$$ and those who can't are out of luck because they will never be able to wear godly mufflers from the event...LMFAO

You don't need insurance to make a +7.
  • 0

#62 Nolanvoid

Nolanvoid

    Nolan Smash!

  • Retired
  • 2024 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:39 PM

Agreed +1 Its an excuse from WP !! justifiable answer they came up with so the players can spend more hard earned money on IM gears !! there always be pro's and noobs in this or any other games. there is no such thing as balanced game "stats", if WP wanted to balance the game then all the players should have the same stats and skills and shouldn't have cash items "IM" on sale so everyone can be same and "BALANCED" because it wouldn't be fair "BALANCED" game for those players who cant afford IM items. And I read one of the GM's comment about they recevied a feedbacks from veterans about the guardian gears and balancing the game? if they really wanted to balance the game they should balance the opinions as well, from all the players or do a poll not from a few selected players. Its all about money money and money


SprinkSky, you have every right to be upset as they are items that have value to you. You may choose not to believe or agree to anything stated by WarpPortal as well, however, there are users, such as yourself that feel there are imbalances within the game. A number of your peers and those who have played for longer than WarpPortal has known the game have voiced their opinions. Some of these opinions you can find in the link below:

http://forums.warppo...-game-balances/

I, personally, would like to give you the names of those that spoke up regarding the items, however, that may lead to harassment. If they choose to make themselves known, that would be great.

In addition to the thread above, there are supporting threads within the Class sections as well as a thread created by a user regarding the trend in classes made from April to June. I do not ask you to believe in myself, nor anyone from WarpPortal, but I do ask that you please take the time to read the opinions made by other users in the game.
  • 0

#63 Nhat

Nhat

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:44 PM

SprinkSky, you have every right to be upset as they are items that have value to you. You may choose not to believe or agree to anything stated by WarpPortal as well, however, there are users, such as yourself that feel there are imbalances within the game. A number of your peers and those who have played for longer than WarpPortal has known the game have voiced their opinions. Some of these opinions you can find in the link below:

http://forums.warppo...-game-balances/

I, personally, would like to give you the names of those that spoke up regarding the items, however, that may lead to harassment. If they choose to make themselves known, that would be great.

In addition to the thread above, there are supporting threads within the Class sections as well as a thread created by a user regarding the trend in classes made from April to June. I do not ask you to believe in myself, nor anyone from WarpPortal, but I do ask that you please take the time to read the opinions made by other users in the game.

I was wondering since they are trying to balance the game, would option that individual pieces on the special im set will also be removed and possibly raised to lvl 20? I'm also wondering if the problem of defense vs attack and also the problem of high blocking will be addressed in future patches?
  • 0

#64 SpringSky

SpringSky

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 57 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:44 PM

wow dude enough with the raging either get over it or just quit.

dude this is not a rage its my opinion and I have every right to voice my concerns and opinions so pls dont be that hater
  • 0

#65 Nolanvoid

Nolanvoid

    Nolan Smash!

  • Retired
  • 2024 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:55 PM

I was wondering since they are trying to balance the game, would option that individual pieces on the special im set will also be removed and possibly raised to lvl 20? I'm also wondering if the problem of defense vs attack and also the problem of high blocking will be addressed in future patches?


The stats and the classes are two of the bigger things that are in priority for addressing. Though if the first gets changed, we're unsure how that will affect the second and also affect the concerns you have above.
  • 0

#66 Rimmy

Rimmy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Dragon Saga Moderator
  • 2354 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:13 PM

I'll pull my statement from the other thread concerning Guardian nerf feedback:

Again, proportionally speaking, saying 5% is close to 12% is like saying 50 is close to 120. We're talking about 12% on a scale of values that can only go as high as 100%, so from Guardian equips alone you could be over 1/10 of the way to being completely invulnerable to physical damage. Just because the numbers are relatively small doesn't mean it can't have a big impact on gameplay.

Also, I can't speak for WP or the developers regarding why other items were not nerfed, but I can say this -- at the player-GM meeting I attended, *ALL* PDD/MDD items were discussed as potentially damaging to game balance. We mentioned everything, including Guardian sets, angel/devil sets, Heirloom Bone Dragon Invoker sets, Heirloom Priest Chaotic Hera sets, PDD/MDD on shields and accessories, the Mana Shield skill... We literally broke it down piece by piece to show the GMs (and by association, the developers) how PDD could easily become a game-breaking element by approaching values near 100% (in fact, with the Option Expansion system in place, sorcerers could obtain over 100% PDD and invokers very close to or over 100% PDD). We did this because we did not want this to be abused.


In the player-GM meeting mentioned above, there were several veteran players in attendance, and a handful of newer players who were there just to listen to the discussion. Basically, what it comes down to is this: We made it clear that PDD/MDD (but PDD, especially) needed to be nerfed at some point soon or it could break the game by allowing mages to acquire 100% (or nearly 100%) Physical Damage Drop. That would mean complete invulnerability to physical damage, which is obviously a major issue concerning game balance.

IIRC, we didn't make any specific recommendations that Guardian equips should be nerfed in this way. This wasn't our decision to make -- and, according to Warp Portal staff, it was not their decision either. It was the developers that made that call, noting that they considered it a bug. All we did was provide feedback concerning potentially game-breaking balance issues, and PDD happened to be one of the ones that was discussed in greater detail.

Furthermore, before this change came about, a Game Balances section was created on the forums to give the rest of the community (those not invited to speak at the meeting) the chance to provide feedback on issues like the Guardian sets.

Yes, there was a lot of feedback in that thread suggesting ways to enhance balance with respect to the Guardian sets, far different from the balance that was applied. But ultimately, *in this case*, it seems the developer had its own concerns and addressed the issue in its own way. Unfortunately, the method that was chosen means that many players will suffer a loss of investment -- that's a fact, most definitely. But please, try to understand that it isn't Warp Portal's fault -- all they can do is provide the developer with our feedback, and it's up to the developer to interpret that and address issues.

It is because this change will cause a loss of investment for many players that Warp Portal chose to offer compensation. And again, after players expressed concerns that they felt the original compensation wasn't enough, WP went even further and increased the compensation considerably.

Believe me, I understand completely how you feel about the suddenness with which the change was made, and the method the developers chose to address this issue. I have quite a few Guardian pieces, myself, and many of them are highly enchanted/soulcrafted. But the decision has been made, and I think that if the developers considered the issue to be caused by a bug in the game, there's probably very little we can do to change their minds about that.

I've already discussed with Aramis the need to better-inform the community when formal player-GM discussions are held, and I think there there are ways we can address that concern. In the meantime, we have a Game Balances section on the forums for a reason -- if you would like to express your opinion about future game balance issues, then I encourage you to start or reply to a thread there. We can't control what the developers do, but we can certainly provide them as much feedback as possible -- and the more feedback we provide, the better the developers will understand our concerns, which may impact the decisions they make in the future.
  • 2

#67 Coolsam

Coolsam

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4997 posts
  • LocationHiding from my Subscribers
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:revreS

Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:14 PM

Why should I listen to you? Your name is a different color! That's unfair to me!


Sounds like the reason I didn't like Runescape mods. "You have a fancy crown, doesn't mean your the Richard Nixon of this game!"

dude this is not a rage its my opinion and I have every right to voice my concerns and opinions so pls dont be that hater


Yea you do. Just voice them in a way that's not offensive and follows rules. Not mini-modding here. Just stating that I'm glad your not total rage-mode about this.

The stats and the classes are two of the bigger things that are in priority for addressing. Though if the first gets changed, we're unsure how that will affect the second and also affect the concerns you have above.


The FG/WG set stats originally were like an advanced cash set but with like 1-2 extra bonuses. The "glitch" that super buffed em made them greater than Angel/Devil sets. Either way with or without nerf they assist every class in a good way.
  • 0

#68 zabmaru

zabmaru

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1403 posts
  • LocationSome rural craphole
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:20 PM

dude this is not a rage its my opinion and I have every right to voice my concerns and opinions so pls dont be that hater


It seemed like you were IN A RAGE AND FURIOUS to me. Please take your tin-foil hat off.
  • 1

#69 Nolanvoid

Nolanvoid

    Nolan Smash!

  • Retired
  • 2024 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:22 PM

I'll pull my statement from the other thread concerning Guardian nerf feedback:



In the player-GM meeting mentioned above, there were several veteran players in attendance, and a handful of newer players who were there just to listen to the discussion. Basically, what it comes down to is this: We made it clear that PDD/MDD (but PDD, especially) needed to be nerfed at some point soon or it could break the game by allowing mages to acquire 100% (or nearly 100%) Physical Damage Drop. That would mean complete invulnerability to physical damage, which is obviously a major issue concerning game balance.

IIRC, we didn't make any specific recommendations that Guardian equips should be nerfed in this way. This wasn't our decision to make -- and, according to Warp Portal staff, it was not their decision either. It was the developers that made that call, noting that they considered it a bug. All we did was provide feedback concerning potentially game-breaking balance issues, and PDD happened to be one of the ones that was discussed in greater detail.


To add Rim, the Option Expander's limit from not being a factor in PvP, was also a part of the reduction of not letting the PDD/MDD get out of hand. That would not allow one of the mage classes to get over 100% as well as the other one near 90%.
  • 0

#70 Nhat

Nhat

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:34 PM

I'll pull my statement from the other thread concerning Guardian nerf feedback:



In the player-GM meeting mentioned above, there were several veteran players in attendance, and a handful of newer players who were there just to listen to the discussion. Basically, what it comes down to is this: We made it clear that PDD/MDD (but PDD, especially) needed to be nerfed at some point soon or it could break the game by allowing mages to acquire 100% (or nearly 100%) Physical Damage Drop. That would mean complete invulnerability to physical damage, which is obviously a major issue concerning game balance.

IIRC, we didn't make any specific recommendations that Guardian equips should be nerfed in this way. This wasn't our decision to make -- and, according to Warp Portal staff, it was not their decision either. It was the developers that made that call, noting that they considered it a bug. All we did was provide feedback concerning potentially game-breaking balance issues, and PDD happened to be one of the ones that was discussed in greater detail.

Furthermore, before this change came about, a Game Balances section was created on the forums to give the rest of the community (those not invited to speak at the meeting) the chance to provide feedback on issues like the Guardian sets.

Yes, there was a lot of feedback in that thread suggesting ways to enhance balance with respect to the Guardian sets, far different from the balance that was applied. But ultimately, *in this case*, it seems the developer had its own concerns and addressed the issue in its own way. Unfortunately, the method that was chosen means that many players will suffer a loss of investment -- that's a fact, most definitely. But please, try to understand that it isn't Warp Portal's fault -- all they can do is provide the developer with our feedback, and it's up to the developer to interpret that and address issues.

It is because this change will cause a loss of investment for many players that Warp Portal chose to offer compensation. And again, after players expressed concerns that they felt the original compensation wasn't enough, WP went even further and increased the compensation considerably.

Believe me, I understand completely how you feel about the suddenness with which the change was made, and the method the developers chose to address this issue. I have quite a few Guardian pieces, myself, and many of them are highly enchanted/soulcrafted. But the decision has been made, and I think that if the developers considered the issue to be caused by a bug in the game, there's probably very little we can do to change their minds about that.

I've already discussed with Aramis the need to better-inform the community when formal player-GM discussions are held, and I think there there are ways we can address that concern. In the meantime, we have a Game Balances section on the forums for a reason -- if you would like to express your opinion about future game balance issues, then I encourage you to start or reply to a thread there. We can't control what the developers do, but we can certainly provide them as much feedback as possible -- and the more feedback we provide, the better the developers will understand our concerns, which may impact the decisions they make in the future.

I'm glad that the developer are looking into actually balancing this game because right now it does seems that warrior are slightly favored over the other classes considering evade was the "unfair" advantage that some theif and archer have and that has been dealt with by increasing aim option on accessories. The "unfair" advantage of PDD/MDD which is also been addressed with the nerfing of guardian set and negating the effect sc expanding in pvp. So hopefully they will eventually get to the point where all classes are a little more balance rather then constantly balancing all the other classes while leaving one class a lot more OP then the other classes.

Edited by Nhat, 26 August 2011 - 03:35 PM.

  • 0

#71 Nolanvoid

Nolanvoid

    Nolan Smash!

  • Retired
  • 2024 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:00 PM

I'm glad that the developer are looking into actually balancing this game because right now it does seems that warrior are slightly favored over the other classes considering evade was the "unfair" advantage that some theif and archer have and that has been dealt with by increasing aim option on accessories. The "unfair" advantage of PDD/MDD which is also been addressed with the nerfing of guardian set and negating the effect sc expanding in pvp. So hopefully they will eventually get to the point where all classes are a little more balance rather then constantly balancing all the other classes while leaving one class a lot more OP then the other classes.


The warrior class, by what you can tell from the Game Balances, have a different dynamic. There are multiple concerns and to make adjustments on those would require testing. It's easy to state a potential change, but they still need to see how it affects it as a whole. For them, the Guardian sets and the Option Expansion is different because they are able to look at another server and see how it is different when it's not there. It also becomes quicker to change.
  • 0

#72 AkatsukiKawa

AkatsukiKawa

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 271 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 26 August 2011 - 11:01 PM

I really appreciate WP for giving the compensation to the player. But there is one thing i still don't understand about the compensation.

Why did WP choose to give many soul boxes as compensation instead of gold?

W-Coin, i think they give W-coin so ppl with guardian can have another IM equipment.
Soul box, sure it may be to compensate people who has soul crafted their guardian to arti/legend. But, 8 stacks of soul for 1 piece, i think it is too much, especially if you can still keep the soul craft option in your guardian set (they should not remove it, would be unfair to people who has spent many randomize and iss if they also remove soul craft option and enhancement). Not to mention, most of guardian pieces which is/was in market or people bought are only advance or special.

From what i see (and also what i feel myself), most people are not satisfied with the compensation because they worked hard, grinding and saving golds for a looongggg timeee to buy guardian pieces, and they feel the compensation is far away from their hard work. Only 100g/piece. The 8 stacks of soul wont add much to gold because the price of souls in market will drop drastically (would not also be good, because soul is one of the income for low level player or new player).

So, in my opinion, should increase the gold compensation (maybe 1k/piece?) and reduce the soul boxes compensation (maybe 3 boxes/piece).
  • 0

#73 Himeyasha

Himeyasha

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 903 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 26 August 2011 - 11:25 PM

Depending on how many sets are on DS, a dramatic increase in Gold causes overall Market instability compared to a single item which is also a "consumable" consumables leave less a trace on game economy and cause less long term damage because eventually they are consumed. Gold in general merely goes around inflating the prices of all goods.

This game is relatively speaking better at eating gold then say Ragnarok is but a sudden influx of 100k+ Gold would cause the market as a whole to go crazy instead of just Soul prices, which would eventually go back to a higher average as they are consumed.

Edited by Himeyasha, 26 August 2011 - 11:30 PM.

  • 1

#74 AI12

AI12

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 36 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 27 August 2011 - 06:15 AM

balancing the game....

I do think the heirloom BD set is LOT MORE IMBALANCE LOL! super high DEF + good set bonus. they r lot more OP than the G set lol.
also, the def in this game is god lol, if u r rich enough to get lot IM like bigpig, make everything +17 - +20 , who can make damage to u?
  • 0

#75 Nhat

Nhat

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 347 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 27 August 2011 - 06:30 AM

balancing the game....

I do think the heirloom BD set is LOT MORE IMBALANCE LOL! super high DEF + good set bonus. they r lot more OP than the G set lol.
also, the def in this game is god lol, if u r rich enough to get lot IM like bigpig, make everything +17 - +20 , who can make damage to u?

Look at ninja's heirloom set......... the only good stat on it is the movement speed :sigh:
and the problem you mentioned does not deal that much with heirloom set. That problem seems to be more like defense vs attack problem where once you hit the arti and >+10 range damage scaling seems to drop while defense scales incredibly high.

Edited by Nhat, 27 August 2011 - 06:33 AM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users