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#1 Yenko24

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:45 PM

Right now I've pretty much played every character, but the one I always seem to come back is the Battle Priest. One suggestion is to give us a little boost in terms of Attack Speed. Huge Majority has to rely on buying stack after stack after stack of Adrenaline Rush Scrolls, use a Blacksmith as a slave, or rely on getting hit with a hat that only gives Lv. 1 AR.

My suggestion? Give a percentage of Attack Speed depending on the level of Mace Mastery you have. This way, not every priest can have it, and it would only make sense considering my priest can barely push 178 ASPD with buffs alone at nearly 99 Agi.

A lot of people say attack speed is the only thing holding me back from having fun with a Battle Priest, and I agree. You gave use the damage to inflict, why not balance us out with some speed like any other class without having to fork over money I can't afford.

Thanks.

(Hell if that can't happen, just give us a lower headgear that allowes +attack speed to the Priest class with 90+ agi or something. Maybe have it look like a demon is hovering over our shoulder as the graphic.)

Edited by Yenko24, 28 August 2010 - 12:24 AM.

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#2 soudou

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 12:52 AM

I agree. One very simple but major thing compared to other classes I think is the limitation with ASPD Potions. Many classes in RO can use Awakening Potions and Beserk Potions. However Acolytes, Priests, High Priests are not included in the Class list for these potions. Only the "Any Class" lowest category: Concentration Potions. I think it'd be a simple move to remove such a limitation. Even far back before "Priests" existed, there were melee builds (e.g. Puncholytes and Battle Acos in 2002 taking 1 damage from Payon Caves monsters, before the various game changes).

Every class has its struggle in maxing damage output and with Renewal on the way it seems ASPD may be changing anyway. But it'd be an easy move I think to at least give Aco/Priest/High Priest the same basic treatment of other classes by allowing Awakes/Berserks. I believe even Monk, the Priest's closest relative can at least use Awakes.

It'd be also be cool if the Adrenaline Rush Level 1 Hat (Musketeer Hat?)activated when attacking rather than when getting hit. Most ASPD-focused builds have a lot of AGI / FLEE and switch headgears, meaning small chance of activating.

P.S. If you haven't already try checking the Battle Priest Discussion Thread on iROWiki forums regarding your build. They may be able to see if you can eek out a few more points past 178 ASPD but it does get difficult without good gears or Adrenaline Rush or Aid Zerk which I agree is awkward to keep up consistently with current options. I would comment further but am not currently active ingame so unsure of recent new gears etc.

Edited by soudou, 27 August 2010 - 01:01 AM.

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#3 Yenko24

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 01:17 PM

I agree. One very simple but major thing compared to other classes I think is the limitation with ASPD Potions. Many classes in RO can use Awakening Potions and Beserk Potions. However Acolytes, Priests, High Priests are not included in the Class list for these potions. Only the "Any Class" lowest category: Concentration Potions. I think it'd be a simple move to remove such a limitation. Even far back before "Priests" existed, there were melee builds (e.g. Puncholytes and Battle Acos in 2002 taking 1 damage from Payon Caves monsters, before the various game changes).

Every class has its struggle in maxing damage output and with Renewal on the way it seems ASPD may be changing anyway. But it'd be an easy move I think to at least give Aco/Priest/High Priest the same basic treatment of other classes by allowing Awakes/Berserks. I believe even Monk, the Priest's closest relative can at least use Awakes.

It'd be also be cool if the Adrenaline Rush Level 1 Hat (Musketeer Hat?)activated when attacking rather than when getting hit. Most ASPD-focused builds have a lot of AGI / FLEE and switch headgears, meaning small chance of activating.

P.S. If you haven't already try checking the Battle Priest Discussion Thread on iROWiki forums regarding your build. They may be able to see if you can eek out a few more points past 178 ASPD but it does get difficult without good gears or Adrenaline Rush or Aid Zerk which I agree is awkward to keep up consistently with current options. I would comment further but am not currently active ingame so unsure of recent new gears etc.

Glad I'm not the only one, but even with a lot of agility gears (which due to sets, is hard to sacrifice for) it's like hard to hit 185+ ASPD without AR.
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#4 soudou

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 02:44 PM

Glad I'm not the only one, but even with a lot of agility gears (which due to sets, is hard to sacrifice for) it's like hard to hit 185+ ASPD without AR.


Yep definitely. After about 180/181 or so it starts getting really tight. Another class having 120-130 AGI and expensive gears would easily net droolworthy ASPD I think. But Priest class just about squeaks to 184 / 185 ASPD. I could be wrong but suffice to say it does seem a bit of an oversight and never personally understood the limitations against Priest/High Priest. They do get very good survivabilty and buffs in trade-off but then I still think something simple like Awake or Berserk Potions would not be too "overpowered".
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#5 Pineyman

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:01 PM

Hmmm weren't HBP was able to reach 190aspd with....flapping angel wing, thorny buck set, that frying pan weapon thingy that also gives aspd, 99agi+80ish base dex, aid bersek pot, and AR?....... but then again that probably just smacking fast with low damage range >.>;;
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#6 soudou

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:57 PM

Hmmm weren't HBP was able to reach 190aspd with....flapping angel wing, thorny buck set, that frying pan weapon thingy that also gives aspd, 99agi+80ish base dex, aid bersek pot, and AR?....... but then again that probably just smacking fast with low damage range >.>;;


Good point and its true but unfortunately it relies on having a slave account (for AR and Aid Beserk Pot), which is a real money expense on Premiums. Gravity recently said forcing players to have to dish out real money for basic play beyond their initial subscriptions is not their policy so a balance made in-game that didn't rely on multiple accounts would work out fairer I think. Similar to the introduction of Endow Hats for those without slave accounts for example. :)

Huge Majority has to rely on buying stack after stack after stack of Adrenaline Rush Scrolls, use a Blacksmith as a slave, or rely on getting hit with a hat that only gives Lv. 1 AR.


In that build, though some Priests do go a similar route (high DEX) I think 99 AGI, 80 DEX you'd sacrifice STR and lose the ASPD of the Lunakiligo (frying pan ASPD weapon), it requires 77 STR. And may be low on other stats too.

Battle Priest almost all stats can be useful to them in a way. Except LUK to a degree pre-Renewal if not Crit Build. But generally most don't focus only on 2 stats, it makes for really varied stat builds. :lol: That may be one thing in what makes Priest difficult to max out ASPD vs e.g. pure AGI/DEX builds. But at same time odds are against them I think even in simple ways such as the Item Shops ASPD Potions they're allowed and possibly in some other ways (I'm not well-versed on ASPD penalties).

I don't think it should be made "easy" to go all the way up to 190 ASPD for Priest-type (or any class type for that matter), it should still require some very good gears and a tight build, but I do agree that some limitations in the game seem needless. I wouldn't mind if they at least allowed Priests to use something better than a Concentration Potion without a slave account. Even if it was just Awakes and only meant a couple more points of ASPD it'd be something and not too difficult a change I think.

Edited by soudou, 27 August 2010 - 08:06 PM.

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#7 Yenko24

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:23 AM

Thorny Combo and the Luna are a step in the right direction for us! But not everyone can use it. It could be due to money, non-trans limitation, or just even prefer another set of equips over it. And that's where I am. A regular 91 Priest. =D

And I can't agree with soudou anymore. Just re-read what he has to say. But look at any other class in the game, they all have something going for them.

Blacksmith=Adrenaline Rush
Saders/Knights=Weapon Quicken
Hunters/Bards/Dancers=Improve Concentration (Increases Agi)
Assassins/Rogues (well they use daggers for the most part, so their speed is quicker. High damage nonetheless)
Super Novices/Monks/Sages/Extended Classes all have either auto-casts or combos to use as they're attacking, thus making kills quicker.
(Sorry if I left something out or made an error, it's 2am and it's 1000 degrees out)

I purposely left out Wizards and Alchemist because they don't have viable skills that they will benefit from as a Agi melee class.

Besides their obvious support spells, Priests were given Demone Bane, Signum Crucis, and Mace Mastery. All help the Priest increase damage but are either Passive Skills or skills used to decrease the targets defense, not to damage them directly. Obviously Priest's main attention is for supporting, but these given spells are proof that they were also meant for battle.

After typing the character list up, you can even argue that the priests need a skill to assist them in defeating monsters quicker. (Because killing faster is what we're striving for) But I am not asking for that. And plus Priests are and will always will be the auto-attacking killing machines.

All we need is a little equalizer. Could be that lower headgear that adds attack speed for just Priests w/ 80+ agility, who knows. BP's are a fantastic and unique class to play, maybe a change can encourage others to give it a go. (I know I would be thrilled to see more out there)


Would love to hear a GM's feedback, lots of great opinions in the thread.

Edited by Yenko24, 28 August 2010 - 12:32 AM.

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#8 GuardianTK

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 09:24 AM

I've mentioned this to many other people that've been planning on making HBP's.

Renewal = The end of all Melee Battle Priest/HP builds.

If you want to have fun with it, do so now. But yeah, if you do want 190 aspd, you're going to have to rely on either the AAR from the musketeer hat or the Hermode Cap. Highly unlikely that you'll ever get the Hermode Cap. The other downside is that it decreases your atk by 20. My BP did fine soloing Loli Ruris with 90x str and 80x agi. Wearing the musketeer hat gave me a nice boost to aspd. With that lower flee, I'd get hit enough to where the musketeer hat procs at a nice rate per encounter. My build was a hybrid though. It had some vit and moderate dex and some luk. It did wonders at dispatching Sins/knights/smiths in pvp/BG too. :3 I've even killed agi SinX's with my BP. Fun times. It's great to see people get shocked when they find out you're a BP.

PS: Battle Priests are simply a novelty build to have fun with. Don't expect them to do much else though. You won't find BP's to be of much use in WoE/MvPing. The same goes for end-game locations such as NI. It's just not as efficient.

Edited by GuardianTK, 28 August 2010 - 09:29 AM.

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#9 soudou

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:04 PM

Renewal = The end of all Melee Battle Priest/HP builds.


Renewal could be its own thread in itself. But I wouldn't go so drastic as to assume such a thing as that yet. Granted I have not read heavily into Renewal beyond the blatant stuff since I figured it'd go through changes before hitting iRO. Which it did during kRO and then again with jRO and maybe again with iRO. Regardless of its current state won't know until we actually get it. When Monks were added I heard some talk of the end of Battle Priests, until some (like me) tried Monk. And its not like its the first time the game has had drastic system changes, my build was really screwy after all the Comodo Patch changes, couldn't fix it until I turned Battle HP. However if you mean there will be a drastic amount of players who skip straight to Battle Archbishop via TU Priest/HP or some such then I'm certain of that, but then they wouldn't of had a serious interest in playing Battle Priest/HP anyway as not everyone enjoys the same playstyle.

PS: Battle Priests are simply a novelty build to have fun with.


I'd argue that a build you can "have fun with" is actually the best build to play and far beyond a novelty. But it depends on your preferred playstyle as to the fun factor, saying its a "fun build" may not hold true for some who prefer playing the game a different way. If I'm not having fun playing the game there's little point in playing though.

You won't find BP's to be of much use in WoE/MvPing.

Some Priests do WOE/MVP (iRO Wiki Battle Priest thread has some past advice). Personally I don't WoE anyway and not yet pursued heavily MVPing with any class so I wouldn't be the right person to ask.

The same goes for end-game locations such as NI.

Battle High Priests do fine soloing at Nameless Island Level 1, great EXP and good loots. And Level 2 if focusing on the Zombies. If you mean as a Battle Priest though then yeah its tougher. Though I knew a few with decent gears and a less screwy build than mine (pre-Comodo build so no Signum and higher than necessary SP Recov etc.) levelling there. I did OK partnering a normal Assassin on Level 1 as a normal Priest though and had some fun.

Battle High Priest: Banshee/Raggeds/Slaughters at Nameless Island, Pingicula at New World, Skogul/Frus at Odins, Anubis and other places a normal Battle Priest could go.
Battle Priest: Anubis, Loli Ruri, Tamruan, Hill Winds etc. High Orcs if you use a Mercenary to mob to make it quicker. Can try Odins or Nameless Surface/1 with right gear and being careful or partnering.
Probably some others, its been awhile.

Anyway I think regardless of what the future may bring theres a few things that would be simple harmless changes (e.g. Awakes).

Edited by soudou, 28 August 2010 - 12:37 PM.

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#10 Pineyman

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 06:40 PM

Fun build is the way to go o.o why play a game without having fun? Silly question /ok combo monk is "fun build" and I have a blast where as "woe/mvp" type is just.... dull and boring and makes me wanna sit in pront and do nothing or else I will fall alseep lol. Well anyway back to the main topic xD. BP is indeed able to do nameless. They are far from useless. And as for renewal if I remember correctly (unless they keep changing info... ) is there won't really be much of a build. As in everyone will be similar build 1 way or another (thus you will be battle/ME/support mix) and not much to been special.
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#11 soudou

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:45 AM

And as for renewal if I remember correctly (unless they keep changing info... ) is there won't really be much of a build. As in everyone will be similar build 1 way or another (thus you will be battle/ME/support mix) and not much to been special.


Oh, thanks for the clarirfication, I appreciate it. -_- They do seem to keep changing info yeah, kRO still making changes I think and on jRO there was lots of changes. Including regarding ASPD as detailed here.

Custom Attack Speed Formula. Well, to be blunt, it's a lot more balanced than the kRO formula. In the Korean formula, attack speed boosting abilities are improved with your AGI stat, so more agi, more boost. With a lot of agi, 193 aspd shouldn't be too hard. The jRO formula makes more sense. Getting to 185-188 aspd is easier than it is in the Korean formula, but getting to 193 is considerably harder. This formula is currently on the korean Sakray server though, so it's possible that korea will eventually use this formula, but it's been months so I'm not counting on it.


Though that mainly applies to other classes than the Priest arc. It already IS difficult to get to 185 or past it at the moment so unless they give Priests a break could be worse in Renewal with either kRO or jRO version. I don't know about Archbishop and if they will get to use Awakes/Beserks or anything else that ups ASPD more easily.

I think iRO may also cause changes to Renewal, hopefully that is. Pretty much Priest / High Priest has been either Battle, ME or Support (or TU) I think, excluding hybrids. So chiefly being Battle, ME, Support or TU/Exorcist, isn't surprising to me. But if you mean though stats wise within those "sets" there is little to no variation in distribution of the stats then that is a shame. Perhaps the jRO changes (and our changes if we get any that is) will allow for more variety though as you wouldn't need to pile as much into e.g. AGI. I never played hybrids much but it would be a shame to lose them too.

combo monk is "fun build" and I have a blast


Thats cool :blink: I always seem to gravitate towards the underdogs I guess. I went combo on Monk and my favourites on RO at the moment is falconer on Hunter and battle on Priest.

Edited by soudou, 29 August 2010 - 03:48 AM.

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#12 Sera

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:51 AM

Thorny Combo and the Luna are a step in the right direction for us! But not everyone can use it. It could be due to money, non-trans limitation, or just even prefer another set of equips over it. And that's where I am. A regular 91 Priest. =D

And I can't agree with soudou anymore. Just re-read what he has to say. But look at any other class in the game, they all have something going for them.

Blacksmith=Adrenaline Rush
Saders/Knights=Weapon Quicken
Hunters/Bards/Dancers=Improve Concentration (Increases Agi)
Assassins/Rogues (well they use daggers for the most part, so their speed is quicker. High damage nonetheless)
Super Novices/Monks/Sages/Extended Classes all have either auto-casts or combos to use as they're attacking, thus making kills quicker.
(Sorry if I left something out or made an error, it's 2am and it's 1000 degrees out)

I purposely left out Wizards and Alchemist because they don't have viable skills that they will benefit from as a Agi melee class.

Besides their obvious support spells, Priests were given Demone Bane, Signum Crucis, and Mace Mastery. All help the Priest increase damage but are either Passive Skills or skills used to decrease the targets defense, not to damage them directly. Obviously Priest's main attention is for supporting, but these given spells are proof that they were also meant for battle.

After typing the character list up, you can even argue that the priests need a skill to assist them in defeating monsters quicker. (Because killing faster is what we're striving for) But I am not asking for that. And plus Priests are and will always will be the auto-attacking killing machines.

All we need is a little equalizer. Could be that lower headgear that adds attack speed for just Priests w/ 80+ agility, who knows. BP's are a fantastic and unique class to play, maybe a change can encourage others to give it a go. (I know I would be thrilled to see more out there)


Would love to hear a GM's feedback, lots of great opinions in the thread.


Wizards, for some reason, can use Berzerk Potions.

You can get the skill Increase Agility.
Blessing also helps too, since Dexterity contributes a small amount.

There was a bug for a while where a Divine Cross (I think) would give you 190 attack speed.

I don't really think battle priests are meant for having 190 attack speed though. I mean, you do have the ability to bless/agi/aspersio yourselves anytime you want. Most classes that can otherwise hit 190 attack speed would probably kill to have that ability.

Maybe I'm just bitter though, since Lunakaligo was restricted to acolyte class and so I can't use it on my smith.

Edited by Sera, 29 August 2010 - 03:53 AM.

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#13 Pineyman

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 12:44 PM

Lunakaligo is awesome :blink: aspd boost for battle priest is <3 and currently best Asura monk/champ's MVP weapon xD
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#14 GuardianTK

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 11:28 PM

Yeah...I never said that they can't ever set foot in end-game places like NI. The basic argument I'm giving is that it's just not as efficient. Unless you like soloing. But in a party situation, you're not going to be as much welcomed as compared to FS/ME HP's. You also won't be welcomed for mvping. It's a "novelty" build for having fun on the side, but it's not a class to be taken seriously when it comes to end-game situations where you're required to be in a party. Don't take me as thinking BHP's as being silly. I love them! It's just they're not meant to be taken seriously. And as Sera says, BHP's are not meant to normally have 190 aspd. Normal BHP's can get close to 180aspd on mediocre equipment, but you'd need the best gears out there for 190aspd. Talk to *Melfina* in the Valk server if you want to know how to get there. She's a pro as a 99 BHP. I think she's gotten 189 aspd. Probably 190 aspd without AAR. The main essentials in terms of aspd equipment for a HBP are Thorny Buckler+Bison Horn. You'll want 99 base agi. You can get 190aspd naturally with Hermodes Cap+Bison Horn+Thorny Buckler+Lunakaligo+Concentration while buffing yourself with Increase Agi and without the need for AAR. Eithercase, the dmg potential isn't going to be very high when using Hermode.


On a side note: Lunakaligo's going to be pretty useful in Renewal from what I hear.
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#15 soudou

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:56 AM

Wizards, for some reason, can use Berzerk Potions.


I think that goes to show, it would be a pretty harmless addition to slot Priest/High priest into at least Awakes/Beserks. If Wizard class can get away with it, seems kind of pointless to block Priest arc. Even with the argument "Priest arc shouldn't have it so easy!" which I don't totally disagree on, Blacksmith and other classes that can get to high ASPD more easily without potions can use Beserks. So it seems a small yet important thing to balance things.

Yeah...I never said that they can't ever set foot in end-game places like NI. The basic argument I'm giving is that it's just not as efficient. Unless you like soloing.


Its full of undeads and BHP is targeted at undeads. So I'd say they're fine in terms of efficiency there on Level 1/2 that is but I'm guessing you mean Level 3.

The original post is aimed at soloing which many clases want/need to be able to do. However depending on the persons playstyle a BHP can sacrifice a couple points here and there without losing much to be more supportive (e.g. Resurrection, Lex A etc.) and Meditatio/Thrift helps. Having a class that can do support and damage the enemy outside of healbombing/TUing can be handy in certain places. And they need not stay at Undeads either.

But in a party situation, you're not going to be as much welcomed as compared to FS/ME HP's. You also won't be welcomed for mvping.

Depends who you party with and their style of playing and opinion of Battle Priests. Level 1 and 2 they're great though.
If you mean Necromancers, then sure, they can have their role in the party but they're not as targeted, same as a lot of other classes though who aren't deemed "novelties". However less people actually "party" there anyway if we're truly talking about "max efficiency, race to WoE, quickest exp/hr possible" its more like duoing than partying (e.g. Wizard+HP). Same with a lot of MVPs.

I don't just think in exp/hr though so I'm the wrong person to debate on this sort of thing. Like how soloing in RO at certain places is more efficient even for Battle Priests, due to the system currently, but I still partied people.

Don't take me as thinking BHP's as being silly. I love them! It's just they're not meant to be taken seriously.

I got that in your previous post, I'm not taking you wrong or anything and its cool you like BPs/BHPs. :blink: I can still disagree though about them not to be taken seriously in certain contexts however. If we're talking exp/hr then partying with one at Anubis or NL 1/2, 1.3k+ damage per hit is nothing to sniff at. But people don't tend to party at those places in the current RO system if focusing on exp/hr purely and prefer to solo. I don't like living at Anubis to 99 though either so thats where I again differ from the majority. Anubis is easy and quick but I liked to go to Nameless, Odins, Pingiculas etc. for the change, challenge and variety.

Lets focus on the topic at hand though, the debate is cool but I think it could be its own thread. The main focus should be the technical aspects of ASPD on this class and if it would be feasible to balance it a little without making it unfair.

I don't really think battle priests are meant for having 190 attack speed though.

And as Sera says, BHP's are not meant to normally have 190 aspd.


I think I disagree with the original poster regarding this a little anyway. I think it should remain a challenge to get 190 ASPD, it should always require very good gears and a tight build. I like the challenge. I still think that certain things like the ban on Awakes/Beserks are needless though. And even with very good gears and 99 AGI its more like 185 ASPD without AR due to weapon penalties etc.

The main essentials in terms of aspd equipment for a HBP are Thorny Buckler+Bison Horn. You'll want 99 base agi. You can get 190aspd naturally with Hermodes Cap+Bison Horn+Thorny Buckler+Lunakaligo+Concentration while buffing yourself with Increase Agi and without the need for AAR. Eithercase, the dmg potential isn't going to be very high when using Hermode.

On a side note: Lunakaligo's going to be pretty useful in Renewal from what I hear.

The dmg potential and survivability also becomes shaky due to the 99 AGI. Which sacrifices a lot of points along with DEX. So STR, VIT and INT then suffer. Lunakiligo also needs 77 base STR. I'm sure they rock and all though.

However unless I'm calcing wrong I can't get 189 ASPD on that set without AR? I might be missing something though but seems more like 185 ASPD (with a few other things thrown in such as a Petite Pet, Stat Food etc.). My priest was using those except the 5% ASPD Hermode Cap, it used a +7 Leo Diadem +3% ASPD (but also with a KVM Glorious Ring which is +5% ASPD, so overall +8% ASPD) and its more like 184/185 ASPD. Thats with 95 base AGI to make room for more STR etc. but even 4 more points of AGI wouldn't do it. You would need Adrenaline Rush to ram it to 189.

But at least there is the Musketeer Hat for AR, though its implementation isnt as ideal for the classes its been targeted at and could do with being based on attacking than being hit. And lets give Priest classes Awakes/Beserks.

Edited by soudou, 30 August 2010 - 07:49 AM.

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#16 Yenko24

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:57 AM

Make a BP with 99 Agi with only a Concentration Potion and decent gears. You'll be lucky to push 175-ish ASPD with a Mace, and that's horrific. I mean, if other classes did what BP's are doing, which some are, (mass slaves/buffs) they can easily hit 190 ASPD. (Mind you I'm a regular Priest)

I'm not saying we want to hit 190 ASPD freely and easily, I'm just asking for a small push. Realistically if I could get 5 more ASPD, I could get rid of AR/Zerk Aids because then it wouldn't seem like I'm swinging with a giant sack of potatoes. (Cuz honestly duel clienting is sucking all the fun out of RO for me, I can't full screen and enjoy the view)

And if Battle Priests aren't ment to be taken seriously, then why do they have Signum Crusis, Demone Bane, Mace Mastery, and Asperio? Just to have fun looking at undead mobs? Oh and we don't have any offensive skills whats so ever. None, just auto-swing.


And I know it was asking too much in my previous posts to give BP's only a headgear with ASPD or adding it to Mace Mastery. I'd be so thrilled and excited if we only got Beserk Potions. That's all.

Edited by Yenko24, 30 August 2010 - 11:01 AM.

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#17 Pineyman

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 02:01 PM

Also you would want a pinion for mid headgear for aspd boost which is another 3% I believe and AR scroll is actually better then smith's AR sadly >.> and as for wizzard using berserk. Wasn't it because looooooooooong ago casting was affected by Agi instead of dex so probably had to do with aspd based? And if anything in a comical way of saying wizzy is black magic and they do drugs while priest is holy and didn't want them to do drugs as much as possible so they were only allowed to drink weak one's just for a slight focus? XD
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#18 Yenko24

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:03 PM

Also you would want a pinion for mid headgear for aspd boost which is another 3% I believe and AR scroll is actually better then smith's AR sadly >.> and as for wizzard using berserk. Wasn't it because looooooooooong ago casting was affected by Agi instead of dex so probably had to do with aspd based? And if anything in a comical way of saying wizzy is black magic and they do drugs while priest is holy and didn't want them to do drugs as much as possible so they were only allowed to drink weak one's just for a slight focus? XD

Hahaa Wizzies. I lol'd when I read that.
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#19 Pineyman

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 03:45 PM

Hahaa Wizzies. I lol'd when I read that.


Glad you like it xD
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#20 Yenko24

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:18 PM

Now to get back on topic, GM's anything? Any little comment on the usage of Beserk Potions? You know it's long over due.

Edited by Yenko24, 30 August 2010 - 09:19 PM.

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#21 Sera

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:33 PM

Well, the usage of the potions was more or less restricted based on Gravity's perceived constitution of the classes, from what I can gather, and not any sort of game mechanics decision to buff or nerf any particular class.

Classes considered more robust, such as Swordsman and Merchants can freely use berserks, as well as Rogues who don't care about their image, so to speak.
Standard classes are to use awakening potions.
"Frail" classes, with the exception of wizard, are generally limited to concentration potions.

Edited by Sera, 30 August 2010 - 11:33 PM.

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#22 GuardianTK

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:14 AM

Well, the usage of the potions was more or less restricted based on Gravity's perceived constitution of the classes, from what I can gather, and not any sort of game mechanics decision to buff or nerf any particular class.

Classes considered more robust, such as Swordsman and Merchants can freely use berserks, as well as Rogues who don't care about their image, so to speak.
Standard classes are to use awakening potions.
"Frail" classes, with the exception of wizard, are generally limited to concentration potions.

That line made my day. xD
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#23 Yenko24

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:23 AM

Wizzies still being able to use Zerks made me one sad panda bear.

Edited by Yenko24, 31 August 2010 - 12:11 PM.

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#24 soudou

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:18 PM

Classes considered more robust, such as Swordsman and Merchants can freely use berserks, as well as Rogues who don't care about their image, so to speak.
Standard classes are to use awakening potions.
"Frail" classes, with the exception of wizard, are generally limited to concentration potions.


If Beserks = robust classes then Priest has a lot of defensive skills and damage boosters and so on. Its always seemed intentional to have the ability to deal damage starting from Acolyte class. To lump them with Novices (who are also forced to use Concentration Potions) seems overkill.

Going by how the classes were first perceived upon the initial creation of RO, Awakes/Beserks are just strange in general really without a rigid rule.
http://irowiki.org/wiki/ASPD_Potion
They included Mage and Merchant class for Awakes but not for Beserks. Then they changed their mind and let their next incarnations, Wizards and Smiths, have Beserks. Initially only Swordsman could use Beserks, no other class. If they had stuck by that intial concept only Swordsman and its incarnations would of ever used Beserks.

Mages didn't have much physical melee potential (though I give respect to the people doing Battle Mages, they're cool). And as for Merchant, they don't seem all that far off from Acolyte in the way they developed.

Cue ripply flashback effect.

They were mainly seen as the shop/vend class and for doing overcharge/discounts for players (until everyone and their dog had a Merchant on their account for that). They got a couple of damage dealing skills and a STR upper to help get them up to Vending stage (no other skills to get). Meanwhile Acolyte got a few damage boosting skills (Demonbane and Signum Crucis) and of course the freedom to cast stat upping skills on themselves. A lot of Acolytes were 'battle' back then whacking Zombies and Skeletons in Payon Caves (and then of course there were Puncholytes). There weren't as much skills to be dvided upon and these "Battle Healers" were a pretty common sight. Merchants also were battling it out and smacking their carts in the faces of the enemy.

Priest class came with more skills to be divided about and a more clear "Full Support" path due to greater abundance of supportive skills. But with things like Mace Mastery and more buffs enabled on self there was the indication again that Gravity considered a Battle path. Along with weapons like Chains and Stunners. Compare this to Merchant class, their next step was Blacksmith, whos main concept was as a forger. A divide began there too with "Forger" vs "Battle" with an abundance of forging skills and, like Priests, a big stat difference between the builds. Smith class mostly got buffs that could be used in a party and 1 damage dealing skill, the rest forging skills. Smith got an upgrade to Beserks after previously being stuck to Awakes, Priests got...

Cue ripply flashforward effect.

In more recent times Soul Linkers that were initially (and perhaps still?) predominantly seen as buff slaves got Beserk potions. (Disclaimer: I think Battle Linkers etc. are cool, but just mentioning the general opinion similar to Aco/Priest/HP = Buff/Support Slave). According to iROWiki the fact that Soul Linkers can use Beserks is not even officially described in the game too. So Beserks should be fine for the Battle Healers, if Battle Linkers are fine.

Regarding Concentration potions, I don't think they're necessarily for the 'frail'. Just "Can be used by all jobs." so more like a fallback such as for bot-abused Novices until Supernovice came, then they got Awakes at least.

[late edit]Thinking further, would ASPD boosters and potions match a "heavy weight classes" analogy, e.g. the heavier their weight tends to be the more help with Attack Speed they need? So Smiths got Adreanline Rush due to their heavy carts and axes. Still doesn't explain Wizards and Linkers of course. And Priests do get pretty weighed down by the Mace which has a bulky ASPD penalty and Shield etc. Back at the start of the game, Acolytes had the best ASPD in the game when unequiped, so Puncholytes came about. Perhaps thats why they got stuck to Concentration Pots being extremely lighter weighted without a Mace compared to other classes without their weapon and good ASPD. But I think the unequipped ASPD was fixed (and noone really can go unequipped against most monsters now anyway and be considered overpowered, except maybe Sages or something? Never played one... but then Sages get Beserks so :unsure: ).[/end late edit]

I don't think Priests/HPs etc. will get overpowered just by using a Beserk (+5% more than Awake). If it could be proven that it would be unfair then Awakes it is I guess like Hunters etc. The block on Awakes can't be because of Increase AGI if Monks are able to use Awakes.

Edited by soudou, 31 August 2010 - 11:52 PM.

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#25 Yenko24

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:11 AM

Man there's just an overwhelming amount of data to show why we need this.

Edited by Yenko24, 01 September 2010 - 08:16 AM.

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