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Battle Priest ASPD Fix


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#26 Pineyman

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:28 PM

Should also add! Why on earth the fist weapon is such a super aspd penalty weapon to priest? That just really don't make sense at all. Which gravity should really consider fixing.
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#27 soudou

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:01 PM

Should also add! Why on earth the fist weapon is such a super aspd penalty weapon to priest? That just really don't make sense at all. Which gravity should really consider fixing.



I guess they wanted to keep them to Monk-usage but couldn't be bothered to program in a more specific weapon class filter than "Acolyte". So they made it so Priests can heave around big clubs and maces but wearing a little knuckle brace makes them drop to the floor. :unsure: Monks get very little (or none at all?) ASPD penalty wearing Knuckles compared to Priests wearing Mace too, yet still get Awakes + access to the ASPD mace. More reason for Priests to get Awakes too. :D

As for Priests wearing Knuckles. I'm not fussed about it. I'm pretty content with the choice of Maces so I don't know if I'd use them even if Priest could. Chains are good, Stunners useful (especially elemental Stunners, before all the Endow stuff), Lunakiligo is nice. Hopefully Archbishop get some nice maces in the same style of Lunakiligo.
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#28 Pineyman

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:22 PM

But I like equipping priest with knuckles :unsure: it somehow gives me a nice image in my mind and it just seems awesome lol its sad how because of the huge aspd penalty your cast gets major effected too xD; slowest heal everrrrrr~~ lol
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#29 Prodigy

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:28 PM

1)Also you would want a pinion for mid headgear for aspd boost which is another 3% I believe and AR scroll is actually better then smith's AR sadly >.> and as for wizzard using berserk.
2)Wasn't it because looooooooooong ago casting was affected by Agi instead of dex so probably had to do with aspd based?
3)And if anything in a comical way of saying wizzy is black magic and they do drugs while priest is holy and didn't want them to do drugs as much as possible so they were only allowed to drink weak one's just for a slight focus? XD

1) I do believe that the way AR is actually coded, it gives +30% ASPD to the caster and +25% ASPD to other party members. This would explain why getting AR from a blacksmith is weaker than casting AR yourself via AR scrolls.

2) If I recall correctly, casting time was already fully dex based when they first introduced ASPD potions.

3) Actually, I do vaguely recall that, that really was one of the official explanations of why Acolytles can't use Awakening/Berserk potions. I'm positive that it wasn't until later that Monks were finally allowed to use Awakes but before that, they were limited to Concens just like Priests were.

Edited by Prodigy, 02 September 2010 - 02:28 PM.

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#30 soudou

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 12:13 AM

3) Actually, I do vaguely recall that, that really was one of the official explanations of why Acolytles can't use Awakening/Berserk potions. I'm positive that it wasn't until later that Monks were finally allowed to use Awakes but before that, they were limited to Concens just like Priests were.


Wow really? Heh thats strange. Was that on the official Gravity site or something? I didn't always pay close attention to the site once I got rolling inside the game.

I don't think it makes a lot of sense though really, if ASPD potions are like steroids/drugs in RO and Priests are too 'good and holy' for that then so must Concentration potions be 'bad' so therefore Priest shouldn't of gotten any. :unsure: If Priests are "holier than thou" they also would not bloody their hands. But it seems there was always this idea they were to go out fighting for the greater good, purifying the world from the evils of monsters and returning to peace the angry undead/demons of the world.

He/she has exceptional fighting skills against Undead monsters and by purifying their souls, returns them to the ground.
If you happen to join parties with a strong Priest, you will be able to receive help from their supportive skills that also possess the ability to attack enemies.


And on the newer job selection quiz on the site a not so gentle/frail Acolyte with a spiky club mace is looking angry and saying:

Peace is peace, but if you cross my path that will be the end of you


Its a shame Priest didn't catch a break the same time Monk did. Afterall no reason why Priest should not do their job faster too to help Ragnarok. So many zombies, so little time. :D

Edited by soudou, 03 September 2010 - 12:30 AM.

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#31 Rewth

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 09:03 AM

So...any response from the GMs etc on this?
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#32 Yenko24

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 04:33 PM

I know other class would love a boost in attack speed, but just to reiterate, we only have autoswing. Literally. Asking for offensive skills is asking way too much.

Edited by Yenko24, 03 September 2010 - 04:33 PM.

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#33 holatuwol

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:46 PM

In more recent times Soul Linkers that were initially (and perhaps still?) predominantly seen as buff slaves got Beserk potions.

I don't think that buff slaving has anything to do with it, since otherwise, bards/dancers (who really only stand still) would be able to use them. I suspect that it's simply because wizards had it, and soul linkers tend to get the same restrictions that wizards do. Along a similar vein, ninjas tend to get assassin restrictions, and taekwon masters tend to get knight restrictions.

concentration: priest, bard/dancer, super novice
awakening: monk, assassin, hunter, sage, hunter, ninja
berserk: knight, crusader, wizard, blacksmith, alchemist, rogue, gunslinger, taekwon master, soul linker

My priest was using those except the 5% ASPD Hermode Cap.

Hermode cap is actually a +10% ASPD bonus for the -25 ATK penalty. However, that also means that a combination of hermode cap, filir pinions, and glorious rings equates to +23% ASPD.

So if you're willing to use the Kafra shop for AR scrolls and AGI food and you stack yourself with a bunch of high-end gears, 190 ASPD prior to transcending is entirely possible on a battle priest without aid berserk potion (example build, may need to add the +10 AGI food yourself).

Edited by holatuwol, 07 September 2010 - 08:52 PM.

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#34 soudou

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:06 AM

I don't think that buff slaving has anything to do with it, since otherwise, bards/dancers (who really only stand still) would be able to use them.


My point was that its evident there is not much rhyme or reason in the distribution of ASPD pots. So I agree with you. :p_devil:

Hermode cap is actually a +10% ASPD bonus for the -25 ATK penalty. However, that also means that a combination of hermode cap, filir pinions, and glorious rings equates to +23% ASPD.


Well I guess the main issue with Hermode Cap is its not something that will be available to all players. And also with the -25 ATK I guess that might cause a reduction in DPS (the main aim of boosting ASPD) and so average battle duration may be affected.

On a calc if you put a imaginary Cecil Damon card (5% ASPD, -30 Hit) in the 4th weapon slot. Then tick the Hit+30 Pastry Food. Its like what an Awake would add I think (5% difference between Conc and Awake unless I'm mistaken). With just an Awake it means that even wearing a +7 Leo Diadem outranks Hermode due to the ATK penalty when it comes to DPS/Average Battle Duration. So an Awake seems harmless yet useful addition.

So if you're willing to use the Kafra shop for AR scrolls and AGI food and you stack yourself with a bunch of high-end gears, 190 ASPD prior to transcending is entirely possible on a battle priest without aid berserk potion (example build, may need to add the +10 AGI food yourself).


+10 AGI food is not realistic for a final build I feel if wishing for consistent 190 ASPD. +10 AGI Food are not much on the Market and when they are they're around half a million for only 1 +10 AGI. Then if you try to make them yourself you realise that most the ingredients are a pain to get or difficult. Or expensive on the market. Along with the lower success rate. Then you understand the Market price. :D

A more realistic build would factor in maybe +4 AGI food since you only need 1 item for that that cannot be found in NPC shops etc. as well as the easier success rate etc. Also the requirement to only have 1 VIT, 1 INT in the build isn't so good.

The first post factors in the AR scroll. Gravity have said it should not be 'required to use Kafra Shop', so a simple tweak in ASPD Pot usage would mean no Kafra Shop reliance. Guzzling AR scrolls daily from Kafra Shop or multiple Premium subscriptions shouldn't be a requirement I feel to play the game.

I think normal Priest may always be at slight disadvantage when it comes to 190 ASPD (no thorny, bison set, no lunakiligo etc.). So just getting a little more past 185 ASPD may be something. But even High priest struggle to scrape up to 190 ASPD, without AR scroll or sacrificing huge chunks of stats.

Edited by soudou, 08 September 2010 - 02:16 AM.

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#35 holatuwol

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 04:55 AM

I think normal Priest may always be at slight disadvantage when it comes to 190 ASPD (no thorny, bison set, no lunakiligo etc.). So just getting a little more past 185 ASPD may be something. But even High priest struggle to scrape up to 190 ASPD, without AR scroll or sacrificing huge chunks of stats.

You hit 188 ASPD on a regular priest by swapping the AR scroll with a regular blacksmith's adrenaline rush and swapping the +10 AGI Kafra shop food with +4 AGI food made from ice cubics.
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#36 soudou

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:42 PM

You hit 188 ASPD on a regular priest by swapping the AR scroll with a regular blacksmith's adrenaline rush and swapping the +10 AGI Kafra shop food with +4 AGI food made from ice cubics.


With no int/vit as previous?
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#37 holatuwol

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 06:44 PM

With no int/vit as previous?

Well, you technically only need 97 base AGI and 36 base DEX for 188 ASPD with adrenaline rush and +4 AGI food, so you could do something like this build which lowers your base STR to 83 to just meet the STR bonus and allows you to have a small amount of INT and VIT.

If you're willing to settle for 187 ASPD (which I find to be decent ASPD, though certainly not as addicting/fun as 190 ASPD), you can drop to 87 base AGI and 36 base DEX which leaves you more room for INT/VIT should you want that more than the 1 ASPD point you get from the 10 extra AGI.

Either way, it's higher than 185 ASPD.

Edited by holatuwol, 10 September 2010 - 07:32 AM.

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#38 soudou

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 01:14 AM

Just an Awake would push that to 189, nothing 'overpowered' to add to RO but comparable with Monks getting Awakes. :p_devil: And in the case of a lot of HP builds an Awake would edge them from 189 to 190.

Though that build also relies on Hermode Cap which I think is a limited access item? Haven't been in the game recently but don't see it on Ragial. Along with the penalties it carries compared to things like the Leo Diadem.

Edited by soudou, 09 September 2010 - 01:24 AM.

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#39 holatuwol

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:05 AM

Though that build also relies on Hermode Cap which I think is a limited access item?

It's limited access, and once you make one, it's account bound. You have to get a bjofnil feather from another player who pre-ordered Ragnarok Online for the DS, and bjofnil feathers go for around 300-350m on Ymir. It also depended on having two glorious rings, and from what you're saying, you'd reserve one slot for a bloodied shackle ball to boost damage. A similar effect can be achieved on a high priest with a thorny buckler combo which gives the same bonus as two glorious rings, but we're still talking non-transcendent priests here.

In a way, the discussion has been mostly theoretical for you since unlike me, you'd usually sacrifice ASPD gear for gear that's optimized for damage and survivability (sounds like for you, the satisfaction of high numbers outweighs the satisfaction of seeing numbers go super fast), but that's a tradeoff that other classes like snipers (who rely on Kafra shop foods for 190 ASPD) and battle linkers (who cannot go above 180 ASPD without AAR and a hermode cap, even with berserk potion access) traditionally make anyway.

That said, with renewal on the horizon, these hypothetical builds no longer even apply since the ASPD formula supposedly changes. Not even sure what value there would be in continuing this discussion.
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#40 Yenko24

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:26 PM

Well, a night or two ago I was about to post some gear sets I'd consider using as a BHP. Way too much info, didn't want to over do the discussion. So pretty much what I'm going to say, is that I'm going to have to ditch high ASPD in all honesty. I just hit BHP and pumped it up to 9x Agi, swapped out the Fillir's Pinions back to the Robo Eyes, ditched all my ASPD accessories, and went with high damage.

It sucks because I'd really have to wait until 90+ to start getting quick with all my ASPD gears, but the damage is sooooo low. So what I had to do is borrow a friend's RoFL for the time being. I have to rely on crazy item procs to make up for my already slow swing and lack of any real priest offensive moves. So far, I'm able to auto-cast Excruciating Palm, Bowling Bash, Domini, and Fire Ball. All in all it does cut down the time to kill a monster but I don't think we were ment to be doing this as a primary offensive skill. I'm 75 now and I pretty much have to be wait until 90+ for any results for ASPD with the Thorny/Bison combo. (which is going to be a long haul)

So it's kinda fun for now but I've always been a fan of speed priests. (Fun until my friend comes back to claim the ring) Lol.

Edited by Yenko24, 12 September 2010 - 08:00 PM.

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#41 soudou

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:09 AM

It's limited access, and once you make one, it's account bound. You have to get a bjofnil feather from another player who pre-ordered Ragnarok Online for the DS, and bjofnil feathers go for around 300-350m on Ymir.


Yeah that doesn't sound too promising... :( Especially when theres much better headgears in the game. There was some discussion after it was first brought up by Guardian TK.

Hermode Cap. Highly unlikely that you'll ever get the Hermode Cap. The other downside is that it decreases your atk by 20.


It also depended on having two glorious rings, and from what you're saying, you'd reserve one slot for a bloodied shackle ball to boost damage. A similar effect can be achieved on a high priest with a thorny buckler combo which gives the same bonus as two glorious rings [...]

In a way, the discussion has been mostly theoretical for you since unlike me, you'd usually sacrifice ASPD gear for gear that's optimized for damage and survivability (sounds like for you, the satisfaction of high numbers outweighs the satisfaction of seeing numbers go super fast)


No bloodied-shackled ball. Bison Horn + Thorny Buckler + (+7) Leo Diadem + Musketeer AR + Loyal Petite Pet (1% ASPD) + (+4) AGI Food + Glorious Ring + Lunakaligo + (+5) DEX Food dropped by Luna + Undershirt & Pantie Combo (AGI +5) + Martyr card (AGI+1) + Blessing 10 + AGI Up 10 + Concentration Pot. *catches breath* :rice:

My point regarding "sacrificing STR" was mainly to do with actual stats rather than equipment. You'd think with all those equips stacked up and buffs and miscellaneous stuff getting 190 ASPD would be a cinch. But you still can't do something like get 110 STR (total including buffs, stat bonuses & +3 STR food dropped by Lunakiligo) due to needing to push DEX/AGI further. Unless you use an Awake. Then you can have more freedom with STR stat and go wild! As well as freeing up 1 or 2 equipment slots (no bloodied shackle ball combo of course though but thats fair and Glorious ring is better DPS anyway I believe). It really opens up *alot* of options more than those who have always had access to Awakes may think. DPS is not just about ASPD. Its about striking a balance between damage output and speed to bring down the average battle duration.

but we're still talking non-transcendent priests here.


Yeah I'm mainly looking at it from trans perspective when it comes to gear. Yenko can argue the non-transcendant Priest side I guess moreso than me. Been awhile. My point is mainly geared towards a general outlook of all stages, trans, non-trans etc. having some kind of minor booster of which some classes already get even if originally not intended for melee (Mages & Awakes then Wizards & Beserks) whereas Acos always had melee ability (Demonbane, self-buffs, Maces etc. as Aco). Since we're even prepared to make do with Awakes though Wizards get Beserks, its a reasonable request. :(

That said, with renewal on the horizon, these hypothetical builds no longer even apply since the ASPD formula supposedly changes. Not even sure what value there would be in continuing this discussion.


Regardless what renewal brings, I'm sure each respective class will still use ASPD pots unless you know that they've been taken out? And I'm going to assume Priests etc. will still be left with Concs as has been the case through every other major game system change in the past 7 years (e.g. Comodo patches). If anything it will be more relevant for certain classes to get a relief with ASPD via pots since the ASPD arc may get sharper. If the jRO ASPD formula is chosen instead of the kRO arc its supposed to be less harsh and more sensible according to the feedback on it. But the fact that Renewal keeps changing its formulas means worrying about Renewal this far ahead build-wise may become a fruitless endeavour if things change again before they hit iRO servers anyway. So meh. :rolleyes:

But either way, Renewal or not, it makes little sense to block Priest class from ASPD pots. If Renewal shows us anything, its that there is and always has been a definite path of 'battle' for the Priest class from Aco to Priest to Archbishop and therefore should be treated as such like Monks getting Awakes.

(I wonder if even Archbishop are stuck on Concs)

Edited by soudou, 13 September 2010 - 04:38 AM.

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#42 Yenko24

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:35 PM

Come on GM's, 40+ replies, let's hear some feedback! =D
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