33 replies to this topic

[ZeroTigress]

Crafting activities by players (forging, potting, cooking) in RO all have success rates that are either dependent on either pure luck or by building characters that are only good for crafting and nothing more. Considering that players can only have a max of 9 characters per server, wanting to craft in RO means sacrificing a character slot. Therefore, if people want to create a new character to use for other things beside crafting but still want to craft in RO, they must use up another slot (or if they run out of slots, create another RO account). Now on Valkyrie, this is no problem, but for people who go on Ymir, this makes the server even less appealing for new players who are uninterested in PVP activities.

Understandably, making it so that players who decide to craft have a 100% success rate (on Ymir) is out of the question considering the Alchemist and Blacksmith rankings. (Seriously, are there actual forging blacksmiths in the game who strive to get ranked?) But considering that Renewal will make it so one can upgrade weapons to +20 and there's supposed to be new and better gear to snatch up plus the new max base level will be 150, is it all that gamebreaking to allow:

Blacksmith players to forge up to +10 with 100% success?
Alchemist players create basic potions (red, yellow, orange, blue, white; basically NPC stuff) with 100% success?
Cooking up to level 5 foods with 100% success?

Discuss (because I am stupid and don't meta-game).

[jax5]

I think the crafting ingredients and end-products should first be re-evaluated.

Even if level 10 cooked food was 100% success (without using the MvP drop cooking kit), the ingredients themselves might cost more than the going rates on kafra food. The kafra food also weighs some 100 times less and lasts 50% longer. There seems to be little point to crafting food right now whether to save or make money. I don't see there being much of a crafting game in RO currently.

Example: Hwergilmir's Tonic (+10 dex crafted food)
Weight: 100
Duration: up to 20 min (or death)

Ingredients (roughly ragial prices on valk):

Royal Jelly x 4 ~40k
Prickly Fruit x 2 ~25k
Ygg Berry x 1 ~400k
Concentration Potion x 3 ~2k
Illusion Flower x 1 ~800k
Alcohol x 5 ~150k
Ice Cubic x 10 ~15k
Bacillus x 10 ~15k

Total cost: 1.447 mil

Of course, there is still a cooking kit and stat-dependent chance at failure, as well as costs of the cooking book and kit. Current rates for kafra shop food are around half the ingredient cost alone.


For forging, elemental endows (from scrolls or headgears) and slotted elemental weapons have reduced the demand. For potting, the slim whites change helped ranked potters, but for the basic potions, there's still an issue of being unable to sell bulk amounts due to cart weight limit.

[eerie]

While new mechanics, would be a welcome feature. I can't say that any class, aside from MSmith, deserves that right. Though, asking for the ability to +10.. Is like asking for slim blue potions. And by that I mean: I don't think were getting any.

[Sera]

Mechanic gets no new forging skills in renewal. :D

Edited by Sera, 27 August 2010 - 12:00 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

While new mechanics, would be a welcome feature. I can't say that any class, aside from MSmith, deserves that right. Though, asking for the ability to +10.. Is like asking for slim blue potions. And by that I mean: I don't think were getting any.

A +10 weapon compared to a +20 weapon, especially with Renewal mechanics, would be equivalent to a basic blue potion being compared to slim blues. They're good, but not great.

I'm just wondering if my proposals in regards to crafting would be considered gamebreaking. Whether or not they're implemented in a future update is for Gravity Co. to decide.

Mechanic gets no new forging skills in renewal.

Seriously speaking, I'm rolling a Mechanic just to parade around in a mech suit. They might as well take out forging because it's so stupidly programmed.

[Hrothmund]

The forging system would be fine if sages hadnt been implemented.

With the current system its not possible to create slotted elemental weapons because the star crumbs and elemental stones take up slots. What BS's need is the ability to create slotted elemental weapons directly, like the assassin katar range.

Edited by Hrothmund, 27 August 2010 - 06:50 AM.

[Talvis]

I would just like realistic success rates for forging. Hopefully they got the hint for the Blacksmith job in RO2 and made crafting rates better.

[Krispin]

Even the forged elemental weapons which don't have slots aren't bad.
They're good, convenient weapons.

But there's this misconception that they're terribad because a four slot weapon with sage endows are better.
They are better, but that's not the point.

What a slap in the face it must have been for smiths when sages came out.

Edited by Krispin, 27 August 2010 - 01:05 PM.

[Sera]

Elemental Damascii are nice, but like, I could buy like a set of four at 15 mil each on Ymir, or I could buy an Ice Pick for 60mil and make an endow sage.

Yeah.

[Krispin]

If ice picks cost that much on valk I'd have one too.

[Sera]

Well, my point is, the cost of forging vs. the value of the forged item decreases as the server matures and also as bots decrease.

[ZeroTigress]

I would just like realistic success rates for forging. Hopefully they got the hint for the Blacksmith job in RO2 and made crafting rates better.

One could hope, but knowing Gravity Co. they like tormenting their players with ridiculous success rates that have more to do with luck than progress.

Even the forged elemental weapons which don't have slots aren't bad.
They're good, convenient weapons.

But there's this misconception that they're terribad because a four slot weapon with sage endows are better.
They are better, but that's not the point.

What a slap in the face it must have been for smiths when sages came out.

People who don't dual-client would benefit better from switching weapons around rather than have an endow slave. The biggest problem would be when the weapons weigh you down significantly so that when you even pick up a jellopy you're instantly overweight. A nice fix would be to make it so player-forged weapons are lighter than ones you find from monster drops or buy from NPCs.

But more than that, I just think it's ridiculous how they've made it so crafting is so highly reliant on character stat build rather than character activity (i.e. the more you forge, the better you get). Players shouldn't have to purposefully create a gimped character just to make a +5 weapon, for goodness sakes.

On another note, they should allow Blacksmith class to have a slotting skill (have it as a quest skill or something). I don't see what's so bad about having a bunch of slotted gear floating around when very few people have cards to begin with. Also agree that crafting ingredients and resulting products should be reevaluated because the way things are now makes it not worthwhile to even attempt to do any crafting.

[Sera]

I think the one step in the right direction was the Weapon Upgrade skill that they gave to mastersmiths, because it actually is based on overall character progress and not the stats of your character.

Unfortunately, Weapon Upgrade becomes completely worthless in renewal because Mechanics cap at job 50.

Edited by Sera, 27 August 2010 - 02:25 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

One step forward, two steps back.

[Hrothmund]

Even the forged elemental weapons which don't have slots aren't bad.
They're good, convenient weapons.

But there's this misconception that they're terribad because a four slot weapon with sage endows are better.
They are better, but that's not the point.

What a slap in the face it must have been for smiths when sages came out.

oh i still use them sometimes. They dont neccessirly need to be as good as an endowed weapon, take the sin elemental katars for instance. An endowed Jur/spec jur is still better, but not *that* much better. So i use those elemental katars instead of sage endow even though i've got an alt account.

[Sera]

Elemental Katars don't really count though, because three slotted weapon that's always endowed, hell yes.

We're talking about forged elemental weapons, and Katars cannot be forged for some reason.

[Hrothmund]

true, but what i'd want to see if something similar that BS's (or WS's or mechincs probably) can forge.

Take the damascus for example, elemental 2 slot damascus's would kick ass, even if an endowed gladius/scalpel etc has higher damage. Maybe give forgers a new item to use instead of star crumbs.

[Krispin]

Star crumbs are a pretty worthless add-on.
OH BOY EACH ONE GIVES 5 SEEKING DAMAGE oh but wait it's fixed damage that doesn't multiply into anything and reduces the success rate of forging by 15% each.
Whoopy-freaking-do.
As far as I know the only use for that is swordies bashing people to stun.

If they weren't needed for rank points no one would ever use them.

Edited by Krispin, 27 August 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[Talvis]

Star crumb are somewhat useful if you can't hit it normally.

[Sera]

Star crumb are somewhat useful if you can't hit it normally.

Unnecessary on Mastersmith.
LK gets Dynamo.
SinX gets Acceleration.
everything else gets a lot of dex.

You really shouldn't be having issues that require a star crumb unless you're like level 10, which is all star crumbs are good for, making VVVS main gauches and stuff for new chars.

[Prodigy]

I might as well throw this in. Renewal has another slap to the face to blacksmith weapon forging. There's this new quest (I think it's part of Paradise Group) where if you finish it, it gives you a decent, unslotted weapon. Further down the quest chain, it gives you the option to put two racial cards in it (you don't need to have the actual cards, the NPC provides it for that weapon), and even further down the quest chain, you top it off with either a +3% atk or matk.

TL;DR version, you can now get a decent weapon via quest so instead of buying those noob crafted elemental weapons, you can do the quest for decent carded weapons.

[Tiggy2232]

Unnecessary on Mastersmith.
LK gets Dynamo.
SinX gets Acceleration.
everything else gets a lot of dex.

You really shouldn't be having issues that require a star crumb unless you're like level 10, which is all star crumbs are good for, making VVVS main gauches and stuff for new chars.

I was makeing those today when I got bored, but I made elemental ones. Bored Tiggy and full storage is a bad combination.

[ZeroTigress]

We're talking about forged elemental weapons, and Katars cannot be forged for some reason.

I might as well throw this in. Renewal has another slap to the face to blacksmith weapon forging. There's this new quest (I think it's part of Paradise Group) where if you finish it, it gives you a decent, unslotted weapon. Further down the quest chain, it gives you the option to put two racial cards in it (you don't need to have the actual cards, the NPC provides it for that weapon), and even further down the quest chain, you top it off with either a +3% atk or matk.

TL;DR version, you can now get a decent weapon via quest so instead of buying those noob crafted elemental weapons, you can do the quest for decent carded weapons.

I don't mind being able to get decent weapons from quests, but for goodness sakes, allow players to be able to craft decent weapons that are at least comparable to quest weapons or allow them to make better stuff. Make crafting actually worth doing instead of gimping the system to the point where players won't even bother to try. Putting in forging and cooking without allowing players a wider range of recipes to create is like giving artists the tools they need to draw, but only allowing them to draw circles and squares. Ridiculous.

I wonder how the developers at Gravity Co. think when it comes to adding so-called features to their games.

"Hey look, that game lets players craft their own armor and enhance it. How can we make it retarded for our game?"

[Hrothmund]

yup in most games crafted stuff is the best possible gear available, in some games crafted gear is the *Only* gear avaiable (aside from noob stuff).

[Sera]

It doesn't even need to be a big part of RO imo, but it should at least be useful for SOMETHING.