44 replies to this topic

[Scuba]

Just an observation that the skill trees don't really make much sense for Gen and Mech. Gen gets an expansion on cart skills (when none of its skills EVER related to carts) and Mech gets an expansion on axe skills (which it did not have a mastery for in the past). Who is more likely to create a cannon out of its cart? A biologist, or a mechanic? The 3rd classes specialize skills they've never even learned before. Why does genetic get "better" at cart boost, when it never had cartboost before? And how does mechanic get better at axe skills, when it never mastered the axe weapon?

What it should be.
http://i130.photobuc.../fixedgen-1.jpg
http://i130.photobuc...fixedmech-1.jpg

Doesn't change anything but its funny I guess?
Obviously the animations and stuff are set in stone but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Edited by Scuba, 28 September 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[Tirasu]

They should have alchemists axe mastery a pre-req for sword mastery too, seeing as it's sword-and-axe mastery now stat-wise, but that's just me.

Kinda funny how genetics use axes and mechanics use a MACE considering there skills too.


At least they have RG skill tree perfectly head-slammingly frustrating right. That's how it should be.

[Asuki]

sure it does, it would make mechanics the fastest leveling class in game and make genetics pretty horrible to level at the same time lol

[Scuba]

Suppose it would make gen leveling different. But Axe Tornado isn't so bad.

[FiskBlack]

Since when anything related to renewal have sense?

[BoingBoing]

thought you meant the skills list ingame, which is pretty awful.

[ohhemmgeee]

That is so true though! All aspects of gene's cart boost is so much better than mechs. Mech's cart boost only increases walking speed very minimally, whereas gene's cart boost let's you walk insanely fast, boost cart weight limit, increase atk and cc damage. All the better reason why I like playing my gene more than my mech.

[Exeter0]

With those skill trees, Mechs would be forced to get INT, which I think is not a bad idea. As for Genetics, well, everyone gets VIT now, so there's no problem with that.

[asayuu]

That "arrow" that is pointing from Cart Boost to Cart Remodeling. Take it out, and make the requisites to both skills be the same.

Why? Because if this happened, Baby Mechanics would be unable to learn Cart Remodeling, therefore unable to learn everything from the Cart tree. [Cart Boost is a Mastersmith skill, therefore transcendent]

[Scuba]

Good point I forgot people actually did that lol.

But that is so many more lines

[Mefistofeles]

arch bishop have the worst skills/skill tree EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Heart]

arch bishop have the worst skills/skill tree EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

lol yes

but then again it nvr made sence to have lvl 10 MACE MASTERY for a defensive skill like Basilica
as an HP tht is

[MagicHands]

Honestly, Ive looked at a suras skill tree multiple times and most of the requirements for it make no sense. I literally have 2 seperate skill trees for sura pretty much and the requirements for each individual skill is so stupid. I get that almost every skill that a sura has gotten is pretty useful, but cmon some of them dont even make sense. They completely ruined combos in renewal and to have them needed for skills like GoH or Tiger Cannon..really? also some of the mid tier skills are almost a complete build themselves, so naturally suras are almost always the same build at 150/50...GoH or a Revit buffer....yay renewal.

[Susan]

Lol we had this discussing a lot in guild and figured out 2 Stories, but i don't know which one is true!


Story 1
Mechanics built the Cart, Cart Boost, Cart Cannon but Genetics stole the building plans and exchanged all the Mjolnirs with their crappy Axes.

Therefore Mechanics had to start all over with their plans, created a new weapon (Pile Bunker) and started to make themselves into herbicidal Emo-Robots (suicidal destruction) to take revenge on the Genetics.
They also used their leftover weapons (axes) to throw them on the Genetics.




Story 2
However, a different story is that Gravity designed the "Mechanic Cart Skills" but then realized that they are too strong for the unloved Mechanic Class. Therefore they put them on their beloved Genetic Class and Genetics Axe skills onto Mechanic.

When they realized that Mechs are going to be left over with Axe Skills only, they gave the Mechs half-ass-designed armor suits with more contras than pros. Pissed of having to spend extra time on crappy Mechanics, they ditched implementing "Item Creation" skills for mechanics.

Edited by Susan, 29 September 2011 - 02:02 AM.

[TheSquishy]

Pissed of having to spend extra time on crappy Mechanics, they ditched implementing "Item Creation" skills for mechanics.

Seriously, mechanics have O creation skills and mastersmiths are better forgers and upgraders.
I don't even know why I play my mech.

[Asuki]

mechanics are the terrorist of RO, all you do in WOE is suicide destruction, might as well stick them with a turban and have scream allah akbar jihad every time they suicide. I feel mechs would be pretty balanced next patch, but only if they give them a skill that summons there mados back when they lose it. I mean common if your a mado mech and die in ET well guess what you have to go all the way back to pront to get it back or be useless the entire run. OR even better in woe you can only get your mount at the npc every 5 minutes >> wtf is that we have to have a warper warp us back all the way back to pront and then teleport back again to woe. with the upcoming SD cooldown there is 0 reason why we can't summon our mado back, its not like we can abuse it and suicide all day long since it has a fairly high cooldown

[asayuu]

I wish mechanics could forge weapons with stat enchants [Like the ones Keris has]

AND BOWS!

Seriously, instead of those stupid FAW skills, why not new weapon creations?

AND STORY 1 IS THE REAL TRUTH. Genetics are so cheap they can't even make their own plans.

[Kadelia]

In truth I believe the genetic skills were designed as fan service in homage of a Well known fansite.

Edited by Jaye, 29 September 2011 - 08:08 AM.

[Exeter0]

OR even better in woe you can only get your mount at the npc every 5 minutes >> wtf is that we have to have a warper warp us back all the way back to pront and then teleport back again to woe. with the upcoming SD cooldown there is 0 reason why we can't summon our mado back, its not like we can abuse it and suicide all day long since it has a fairly high cooldown.

I agree with you. We should only lose our Mados through Suicidal Destruction or through getting off it. When we die, we should still be riding our Mados.

Another thing that I don't get is that Geneticists ARE Geneticists. They should be studying the genes of organisms, not pumping cannon balls out of their carts.

Edited by Exeter0, 29 September 2011 - 08:37 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

I agree with you. We should only lose our Mados through Suicidal Destruction or through getting off it. When we die, we should still be riding our Mados.

Another thing that I don't get is that Geneticists ARE Geneticists. They should be studying the genes of organisms, not pumping cannon balls out of their carts.

Is this when the eject button comes into play on Mados?

and I agree with the Geneticist idea. Maybe creating zombies would be nice too. Necromancer class anyone?

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 29 September 2011 - 08:40 AM.

[Scuba]

I don't think theres a good reason for losing the mado by death other than theres no deathsprite?

[KataiKou]

Forge skills that use Job Level as a factor really need to do something like use JobLevel*1.5 for 3rd classes. That way, when you hit Job50, you'll be upgrading at an equivalent of Job level 75. Slightly better than the trans class, but not so much so that it's broken. It just bothers me that any skill becomes WORSE when you progress in your class.

Other nits. RGs have so many useless points if you want to do Battle Chant. I agree about the AB skill trees. I miss viable Hocus Pocus.

I also still don't like the entire Shadow Chaser skill set. The whole Rogue line seems to be capped at how well you can use "Divest", and that's pretty much it. The Masquerades are interesting, but still not as useful as the Divest skills, IMO. The SC line is just unimpressive...

I don't know. Maybe things will look better if you add some 3rd level Platinum skills?

Edited by KataiKou, 29 September 2011 - 12:49 PM.

[Charon]

LOL Susan
Thats the only good explanation for this mess Ive heard yet.


But theres similar stuff on the rest of the classes. Performers having the better arrow AoE, Suras having actual new buffs.. so they might have meant to just go screw it all up like who cares.


The job70 bonus thing... we've been there. Anyone understands the only logical thing would be that mechanics keep the 10% bonus regardless of 3rd job level (just make it give +10% if class is mechanic whats the freakin problem.)

Heim responded to this, saying there might be more job levels for 3rd classes in future which would then fix the problem I don't think I need to comment on that further.



On the actual skilltrees. There could be some very reasonable changes done that are just about requirements.

Arch Bishop.
-Eucharistica (battle) requires Expiatio (battle) and Epiclesis (support)
-Sacrament (support) requires Expiatio (battle) and Epiclesis (support)
so regradless which of these 2 you are going to work towards, you have to put 27 skill points in the exactly same skills. Why not do the obvious thing and cross out epiclesis on upper and Expiatio on lower one?


Warlock.
Only people who go for Tetra Vortex want the Ball skills. It would make sense if the balls were at the end of each tree instead of the beginning... and there's just lots of stuff that'd make sense a bit differently.
-Meteor Storm-1-Crimson Rock-3-Summon Fire Ball-1-*
-----------------------------\________-1-Hell Inferno
------------------------------\_______-5-Comet
-LoV-1-Chain Lightning-3-Summon Lightning Ball-1-*
-SG-1-FrostMisty-1-Jack Frost-2-Summon Water Ball-1-*
-Heavens Drive-1-Earth Strain-3-Summon Earth Ball-1-*
-------------------------------\_____-5-Sienna Execrate
-NapalmBeat-1-Soul Expansion-3-White Imprison-3-Stasis
-Safety Wall-1-__________________/


Shadow Chaser
Will you take out skills that DONT EVEN DO ANYTHING please? That includes Dimension Door btw. Its getting silly. Like really silly. They even changed Dimension doors effect with balance patch to only affect party members, like cmon. They dont even pretend its not there anymore, they nerf it. Pro trolling. Almost as bad as the KITB SN joke.


RG is tough, but not sure what to do with it.


At this stage, another issue becomes noticeable. Half of the classes feel incomplete, or rather as post above said, unimpressive.
While half are doing fine, having core skills that the players will want ASAP, the other half has skilltrees full of "meh" and "oh well, I guess thats nice"

But that can only be changed if they got additional skills. Which reminds me of Lhz update that got some trans classes really important additional skills. THIS IS WHAT 3RD CLS NEED RIGHT NOW IMO.
Like, 10 more job levels, and classes with amazingly low amount of skills should get some neat new ones, either improving their main job if this lacks currently (like one or two awesome support skills for AB), stuff for areas they dont have anything in (killing instrument skill for performers for example), or even obvious missing stuff (a wind AoE for warlocks?)

Edited by Charon, 29 September 2011 - 03:38 PM.

[Exeter0]

I've seen a deathsprite somewhere, I'll edit this when I find it.

Edited by Exeter0, 29 September 2011 - 03:34 PM.

[Charon]

I've seen a deathsprite somewhere, I'll edit this when I find it.

Yea, but the robot is ripped into 5 parts, as it wasn't meant to be an exo skeleton for a human. Its just a reused GM beta sprite that had a baby sitting on top at first. (insert facepalm)

Edited by Charon, 29 September 2011 - 03:42 PM.