18 replies to this topic

[Zayik]

Royal Guards only lose 9 aspd while using a two handed sword, but Rune Knights lose 15 aspd . . . .Whats up with that? Like, when paladins turn into a royal guard, and get MORE proficient with both one handed and two handed spears in addition to two handed swords(which they don't use, nor ever used as a crusader-RG). They are a spear class, not a sword class.

But then lets look at Rune Knight. They actually get worse with two handed swords, despite the multitude of skills that require the sword. Unlike the Royal Guard, they SHOULD get more proficient with one of their main weapon classes(two handed swords).

Does anyone else see this as strange? I'm sure there are plenty of classes that have the same issues. Its just interesting how Gravity decided to make certain weapons worse on the 3rd jobs. Maybe they just mixed the aspd changes a bit from class to class.
http://forums.warppo...spd-in-renewal/

Edited by Zayik, 29 September 2011 - 05:20 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

It doesn't matter. 193 ASPD is too easy to get for RKs.

[Krispin]

I'll never understand what went through their minds when deciding on these attack speed changes.
Most of them are pointless and the sword and spear ones are completely nonsensical.

Why does their two hand sword speed get worse as a RK?
Why does one hand swords become MUCH worse as a RK?
Why does their speed with spears go from terrible in second job to comparable with RG's as a RK when the RK class is obviously designed around swords and not spears?
Why do maces, a weapon that both classes rarely ever use nor is designed to use, consistently have one of the best aspd modifiers for every subclass?

Its just all so stupid.

[asayuu]

They have two-hand quicken, which pulls this "penalty" to -5. And Frenzy, which "neutralizes" it.

But look. Mace is the fastest RK weapon. Was it working as intended? /rice

[Krispin]

Those two skills don't stack you know.
Or do they have different modifiers?

Regardless, its stupid that that their aspd actually gets worse by advancing in classes.

[Zayik]

They don't stack and affect aspd the same way. And honestly, 193 aspd is only easy to achieve with a mace. I have 89 base agility, eden buffs, a +8 alca bringer which gives 4 aspd, bless and agi, and that still only gets me to 190 aspd.

[CeruleanGamer]

They don't stack and affect aspd the same way. And honestly, 193 aspd is only easy to achieve with a mace. I have 89 base agility, eden buffs, a +8 alca bringer which gives 4 aspd, bless and agi, and that still only gets me to 190 aspd.

89 base agi =/= 120 base agi. A 30+ Agi difference is significant enough to give you 5-6 more ASPD.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 29 September 2011 - 08:45 PM.

[weaseI]

Yeah he's wrong. 2HQ and frenzy don't stack.

I rather they remove asir/+4 aspd skill from RK and change the 2h Sword speed modifier the same with RG. Because I will get 193 aspd without the rune with the same agi.

[Zayik]

I understand more agi can get me to 193 aspd. I just wanted to point out the stupidity of how gravity chose to assign aspd modifiers for each class. I really hope RO does something to fix this.

[XIII_Eraser]

http://forums.warppo...spd-in-renewal/
ASPD is just messed up in renewal some people who actually invest in agi lose to people who don't invest in agi due to these "weird" mistakes I just hope some kind of balancing will come for this

[KataiKou]

...does this really matter that much? Who cares if Royal Guards can swing faster with 2H-swords than Rune Knights? 2H swords are completely worthless for Royal Guards because of the skill sets. If all the classes were ctrl+click builds, then yeah, I can see the problem, but I don't know of any Royal Guards who would use a 2H-sword over a spear. In fact, having the better "natural" aspd for non-standard weapons would just increase the viability of non-standard builds. Maybe someone might enjoy making a Mace Knight. Shouldn't diversity be a good thing?

Edited by KataiKou, 29 September 2011 - 10:06 PM.

[Hrothmund]

Where's my "katar quicken" skill? its two handed

[Roman]

ignoring the troll above...

I too do not understand the reasoning for this base aspd... you cannot say "well that is why they have two hand quicken" it is an invalid argument. If that were they basis, then why would Royal Guards also be more proficient with 2-handed spears, I mean come on, they have spear quicken <.<;

Which brings up another irritation, why is it that spear quicken gained a huge buff with renewal and two hand quicken got nothing/nerfed?

spear quicken pre-renewal was basically identical to twohand quicken pre-renewal. Difference was that 2hand quicken was stackable with frenzy. I understood the nerf, because 1 agi and max aspd seemed a bit op.

However, now spear quicken not only gives apsd, but at lvl 10 it gives 30 crit and 20 flee. Where two hand quicken just got the non stackable adjustment...

what the hell? How does that make sense?


Summery:
RG's should not be more proficient with 2handed swords than RK's
Twohand Quicken should be brought on par with Spear quicken or at least un-nerfed.

Roman

[cRoc]

Rk have access to better Two Handed Swords???

[asayuu]

I did not said they stacked. You can choose either one or the other. Well, on pre-renewal they could.

But the fact is. The two-hand quicken usually gives 10 aspd with the sword, but you can spam other skills. The frenzy usually gives 15 aspd with any weapon, but you turn to be an useless ctrl+clicker.

And then, there is the gear-fix again. Alcabringer makes the speed boost... And there is Violet Fear for more DPS by spamming magic. And the rings. Yes, some things they fix with gear, but other should be fixed with system things

But really, one of the observations above really shows the truth.

Who cares if RG is faster with 2h swords? They don't have ANY skill which benefits of it... Maybe Bash, and Holy Cross.

It's the same thing wiht mace-RKs. They can either Frenzy or use Adrenaline Rush for the fastest, but few skills really benefit from the aspd. Except if "the mace" is Mjolnir.

The curious thing I see on these tables is. While RKs have -15 on their theme weapon [2h sword], RGs have -10 on their theme weapons [both spears]. And with both quickens, the RG happen to be faster.

[MrBudd]

Rgs have a lower aspd reduction but have practically no skills that can be used with them other than holy cross. Rk skills aside from spear specific ones can be used with all weapons that they can equip.

As for hitting 193 aspd on a rk. It's entirely doable with 70-80 agi if you know what to do. But going for pure aspd to ctrl click monsters one at a time is pretty inefficient but is fun for -_-s and giggles.

[DieNasty]

Yeah he's wrong. 2HQ and frenzy don't stack.

I rather they remove asir/+4 aspd skill from RK and change the 2h Sword speed modifier the same with RG. Because I will get 193 aspd without the rune with the same agi.

I totally agree with you on that note. It doesn't make sense to penalize the RK class with -15 ASPD while the RG class gets only -9 ASPD with a two-handed sword. I think that a fair penalty for two-hand sword yielding RK should be -12 ASPD instead of -15 ASPD.

One thing that does suck for the RG class is the -10 ASPD penalty on the one-handed spear compared to the RK class with only -8 ASPD penalty. Then again that's only 2 ASPD difference compared to 6 with a two hand.

[Zayik]

Asayuu, you got your aspd information wrong. Two hand quicken only gives my rk 9 aspd, as well as frenzy. If frenzy gave me 15 aspd, I'd be in heaven. I believe the aspd given by frenzy is based off of weapon, because with a dagger, I only received 8 aspd compared to 9 with a ths.

[Krispin]

Basically both two hand quicken and frenzy both still reduce attack delay by 30%, the original amount before renewal, even though it is obvious that they were supposed to be changed to, or at least is what everyone expected since it was changed in other versions, give a set amount of aspd.
I believe thq was supposed to give 5 aspd and frenzy 15, and were changed so they can't be stacked.
The latter change is true, but for whatever reason the modifiers on these and other aspd skills weren't changed.

Edited by Krispin, 30 September 2011 - 10:48 AM.