149 replies to this topic

[trupein]

And in a way by combining the 2 if you have a low durability your cutting half our prior lifespan away hence everything needing to be repaired so fast. Making the repair bill based on the "awsomeness" of the item is definately a great idea. I suggest it should be 100/dura ,or lower the damage .05 may be enough to make it last longer. Not sure just some suggestions.

Edited by trupein, 14 October 2011 - 07:10 PM.

[Leonis]

The patch applied just now (v362) has an adjusted formula for durability resistance that is giving a significant boost to the chance of resistance, depending on the durability of an item. It is no longer 1% per 1 durability, it is a relative scale now that starts at approximately 1.5% and reduces slightly as you approach 100 durability. The effect we've witnessed during testing was a noticeable slow of durability life loss, so we're hoping this helps lengthen your time spent hunting. As the system is relatively new, we're still going to be monitoring it and your feedback to continue making adjustments, while keeping the essence of our goal.

[onicdesigns]

I do like it cause it cuts out the botters. They now can't spend hours in one spot while away from the keyboard. I notice a crew that normally take the space all the time be killed off in 20 minutes and left the cleric doing the auto heal on two dead people.


The hammers are 10 cents each as they are now. Using two every hour of play with 5 hours of play would be $1 a day? In the prison that would be even more with the influx of monsters. The NPC can still repair that is good.

Should test out the rates with a champ in the ruins with spider spawns or prion with those spawns. Or with a AOE mage.

When you do your tests which class do you do with them?

Edited by onicdesigns, 14 October 2011 - 08:37 PM.

[VnzlaGuille]

I opined: the new change is good but lowering the hammer to repair even IM 10 pts for 5

[keylock32]

I'm new to this game, so I didn't really understand durability system in this game
let me tell you my journey

it's hard for New player, if you keep doing lot's of quest because there's barely any party on the field
like the last quest I've done (getting drive cart license) I have to back and forth 5 times (that forest to junon city) to complete it, and that's about more than 3 hours.
yes I'm doing it with no buff or anyone to help.

My weapons durability going down too fast (I'm using spear, and when I make hawker it's even worse)
I've test it on doonga it 1 durability/3 monsters


I don't have much zully yet (or whatever in-game currency)
I've played another game with durability system, but this is the most game that consume durability too much.
and when other games can be repair on any tradeable NPC (not just weapons seller)

my suggestion is lowered durability consume (specially for weapons)
or add more durability to it.
add repair ability to player or/and NPC arround field.

Edited by keylock32, 14 October 2011 - 08:48 PM.

[onicdesigns]

I was hardening some weapons and noticed that the ones with sub stats have a lower dura then the ones that don't. Is dura a random thing when crafting or set to be lower if the weapons have substats. It was a big difference. Attack 13 was dura 35, str 11 was 45 and without was 65ish. Can hardened weapons have a higher dura then NPC bought ones? Does anything else cause the dura to go down? Just wondering cause now Dura has to play into the pricing of hardened weapons since the high the better now.

[MidnightSmurf]

Am I the only one who find this utterly annoying?

After one hour of luring for my friend, my entire inventory 2 and a half set of equipment has gone from 100 to close 0. And my friend (a champ) weapon has gone down to 0 twice forcing him to either change wep or go to town and repair it. This is after ONE HOUR.

Yesterday I did some pvp fighting (wich usually don't effect your durability that much) and found half-in the day my dura on the weapon was less then half (full was 82). This merely from some random pvp/"war" during half a day.

I have to keep running back to town and let my party wait every hour? And everyother team-mate must be doing the same? When will there be time for the entire party to actually level together??

Item Mall

I'm not going to hide the fact that the Item Mall had a part to play in this, but not where you might think. The repair hammers removal was the only influence behind this update. As it was seen, repair hammers were almost never used, it was seen as a little difference to remove them from game play and place all 'portable' means to repair equipment unto the Item Mall's Perfect Repair hammer. It gives added benefit and usefulness to what was generally seen as a 'useless' Item Mall item. Now, it not only repairs equipment to full, but costs no money to make that repairs. So the now added benefit of the Perfect Repair Hammer is savings, especially for high valued equipment. But that is all the influence the Item Mall had to this aspect of the update.

Let me get this straight. You took away the only thing that would have made leveling do-able? This is of course if the items are not highly valued to you.

And do not tell me that I should buy perfect repair hammers instead. I do buy Item Mall but would not buy some riddiculous IM repair hammers for leveling and farming. Show at least some respect to those who want to play a free game as well instead of ranting on that you must make money. If so, make it a pay-to-play game and remove the IM that is now slowly consuming the games inhabitants anyway with too much trash in it instead of a "few" good options.

Final Note

As much as we felt the new durability design was working as we intended, we are very much aware that there may be many instance and situations where this new system may not play out as intended. So please share your experiences with it and how you feel about it. I would personally ask that you try to keep the reasons above in mind, when offering your viewpoint, because until now, how often did you really repair your equipment? And when paying for repairs, how much does it really affect what you may have just made for the time you spent out in the fields?

So far, I've seen some pretty accepting feedback and experiences already, which is a very pleasing thing to see! But I know there are many of you out there being affected by this so please, when offering your experience, opinion or suggestions. Provide as much detail as you can, particularly what item(s) and durability are involved, for repair cost comments; include grade and any gem/appraisal stats that are on it.

I have nothing against the cost, you can raise it still if you would like. But don't force us to buy IM repair hammers in order to farm and level properly. As of now you are ruining the fun gaming experience that involved playing with friends and making new characters. This is a big part of the game since you don't have ANY INSTANCES AT ALL for max level players but do have ONE INSTANCES for those below 150.

Idea; Take back the regular repair hammers and raise the cost on them drmatically, and let us use them the same way we do with perfect repair hammers. Then you have a HIGHLY effective way to drain zulie without ruining the gaming experience for us.
Idea for IM (so I might get my will through on the idea above); Make IM hammers raise the dura on things instead. Perhaps 1dura per hammer. This would of course cause a significant impact on the market. Weapons would have a more balanced pricing then currently. And those VERY rare weapons would not be so rare anylonger. But then, nothing is truly rare today since releasing thos rare things twice helps you gain some money

[DrakeClaw]

Oh oh..
I was the Champion named above by MidnightSmurf...

That was dramatic, really.
I used a Trainee medal to lvl for the hour of play I had free, I mean, we all need to "limit" or at least "control" our game-time no ?
Ok, well, I did ruin not 2, but 4 weapons in that hour.. and I totally had to get back to town and buy new ones (yes, I have to buy multiple copy of a weapon to be able to level now... ) and I wasted minutes of my Medal.

This is really reducing the fun and the relax I expect from a game, to be honest, as it requires me to stop, move, reorganize with friends, to force them to come get me (escort) to the Exp spot ... and all the related troubles you may understand.

I am sorry if this is related to the market balance or anything similar, but ... damn it, I am really deluded about this choice.

I expressed my opinion, in the hope it will be at least kept in cosideration.

[MidnightSmurf]

A simple solution would be to decrease the rate of wich Durability lowers and raise the cost for Repairing it at an equal rate.

[Niluje]

Thank you for showing how easy it was to make the leap from the old display to the new. You have quite simply shown how the new display has been translated from the old, so I have every confidence that other players will be able to make the leap in understanding the new display. My own choice of reference to what this new display is how I refer to it. You can refer to it however you wish to, durability life, durability point, lifespan, the mechanic is still the same, just displayed differently.

The first 2 posts you quoted above mine show that people don't understand what you're talking about, and I'm not even sure I understand everything either. No, actually: I'm totally sure I didn't understand parts of what you wrote

But let's talk about the UI first:

Effectively, "lifespan" is now displayed on the left of the displayed durability. i.e. (Lifespan / Durability)

However, the idea of making it display "Life span" is inaccurate, since it is the item's durability and how it resists taking damage in addition to displaying how many durability points are left before breaking.

Ok let's take a general example: "[Name]: A / B"
You argue that this says that [Name] is B. I'm sorry but that's not how this kind of displaying works: [Name] actually refers to A.

So when you write "Durability: 12 / 45", it says that Durability = 12, whereas it's not what you're trying to say.
What you're trying to say it that Durability Life (ew) = 12 and Durability = 45

So actually, it should be displayed "Durability Life: 12 / 45" (even though I just hate the name "Durability Life")

Just to compare: we have "Weight: 120 / 450", where Weight (or Carried Weight) = 120 and Max Weight = 450.
It's not displayed "Max Weight: 120 / 450" because it would make no sense


And (now that I'm done with the UI), in your posts: If you use Durability Life and Durability regardless of what you're actually talking about, nodody will fully understand what you will say (and nobody has fully understood what you've said)
Besides, since the UI says "Durability" for what is actually Durability Life, every time you will say Durability in your posts, we'll be wondering if you're talking about D or DL

- "So the factors in the expense of repairing damaged equipment are: durability, the item's base price, any appraisal stats or gems and the refine grade it is."
D or DL?
Obviously, DL is taken into account to calculate the price, but maybe you decided not to mention it (since it's obvious) and it's actually the real D you're talking about here (?)

- "The first step was to make it so durability loss is only based on a successful hit."
Actually, it's DL you're talking about.

- "The durability of the piece of equipment now acts as a resistance chance against taking damage to durability."
1st one: D or DL? That's what I still don't understand (please answer this!)
2nd one: DL, clearly

The patch applied just now (v362) has an adjusted formula for durability resistance that is giving a significant boost to the chance of resistance, depending on the durability of an item. It is no longer 1% per 1 durability, it is a relative scale now that starts at approximately 1.5% and reduces slightly as you approach 100 durability. The effect we've witnessed during testing was a noticeable slow of durability life loss, so we're hoping this helps lengthen your time spent hunting. As the system is relatively new, we're still going to be monitoring it and your feedback to continue making adjustments, while keeping the essence of our goal.

D or DL? Probably D but I'm not even sure (same as above in fact: I still don't understand which one you're talking about)


And if you look at all the posts in this thread, people talk about "Durability" deceasing when this or that happens, when actually the true Durability (45) cannot change at all and it's the Durability Life (12) that can decrease. Which shows how misleading and confusing the UI and your posts can be


Edit: Or what you could do it just displaying it "Wear-out gauge: 12 / 45"

Edited by Niluje, 15 October 2011 - 09:04 AM.

[Kitt]

Hmm, I haven't had a chance to play since this update, but I think I might see a bit what Leonis is trying to say about it being durability and it might explain some of what people are experiencing.

The display isn't durability life/durability quite so much as it's current durability/maximum durability. If I am right this is BAD!

You start with 100 durability on an item, and it's at its best for those first few hits. Then, after enough damage, it's not resisting at 100, its resistance ability is reflected by the first value. So, if you have what in the previous system had been a 100 durability item, it still is until it fails the first check. What we have now is an increasing rate of degradation of the item until it hits 0 (or is repaired). So the longer you stay out in the field, the FASTER the item basically falls apart. Sort of an exponentially accellerating death.

This is only my suposition, but does this seem to make sense with what is happening in the field? That is, it takes more time to lose durability at first, then you are losing it very quickly toward the end?

What might help is to factor the true, base durability into the resistance equations in some way so that a 50/100 item has a somewhat better perceived durability than a 50/50 item, based upon how fast it falls apart.

[Lucis]

--Allow me to suggest replacing "Durability" with:

"Item Condition" / "Condition"
-or-
"Item Health" / "Health"

As I think these terms match what "Durability Life" intends to represent / mean, and the replacements i'm proposing make more sense:

[Item Condition: 15/75]
or
[Item Health: 15/75]

vs [Durability: 15/75]

Edited by Lucis, 15 October 2011 - 09:36 AM.

[Kaizy]

I think it's crappy to implement something like this that is based off the dura of your items when you purposely lowered durability on things like UW items before in an effort to make people repair more often. That combined with this new update makes some items unbearable to use. Like I think it's the UW headpieces that have 10 dura. :\

It would be great to see a repair skill added for in field use. Forcing people to run back to town continuously just to repair after a little bit of farming isn't going to cut it and I'm willing to bet it cuts down on some medal sales because people will not want to farm as much. Especially in places that don't have return scrolls like Orlo. Or say I'm leveling in GoS and have to repair, no scroll back there. Running across several maps just to repair? Sucks.

Edited by Kaizy, 15 October 2011 - 12:42 PM.

[CoffeeMuse]

If I'm going to have to stop and repair every hour or two, this will be a major incentive for me to just quit logging in.

While I understand Leonis, you feel durability has been of little consquence, if what I'm reading here is any indication, this will be a major disincentive for me play.

Think about the consequences of having to stop and go back to town to repair every hour or two. What if you have a spot and you risk losing it. What about having to break in the middle of a medal. To me this is just BS.

I vote you re-think this system and back off - the system is excessive IMO, enough to impact my enjoyment of the game and be a nusiance.

Edited by CoffeeMuse, 15 October 2011 - 02:54 PM.

[johncc2011]

You could Implement this kind of system given the fact that you'll make the durability tougher if you want to keep the prices at that range atleast, geez leveling using a unique staff with d7 will rape your funds. I leveled with my girlfriend in OT, after 2 hours = 510k a pop? So now were being charged for leveling? goodluck with that LOL xD This way you piss off botters = "positive", piss off new players trying to make money = "negative", piss off current players trying to make new chars = "negative". You do the math lol.

[CoffeeMuse]

You could Implement this kind of system given the fact that you'll make the durability tougher if you want to keep the prices at that range atleast, geez leveling using a unique staff with d7 will rape your funds. I leveled with my girlfriend in OT, after 2 hours = 510k a pop? So now were being charged for leveling? goodluck with that LOL xD This way you piss off botters = "positive", piss off new players trying to make money = "negative", piss off current players trying to make new chars = "negative". You do the math lol.

Since I've started farming again, I've only lost or spent money in the game, and now increased costs to repair to the tune of 510k after 2 hours. I may be taking a vacation until Leonis wakes up smells the coffee and sorts this out.

I'm not amused by this update. If your going to force me to spend money on the game just to go kill monsters, I don't see where the fun is any longer.

Edited by CoffeeMuse, 15 October 2011 - 03:00 PM.

[johncc2011]

Since I've started farming again, I've only lost or spent money in the game, and now increased costs to repair to the tune of 510k after 2 hours. I may be taking a vacation until Leonis wakes up smells the coffee and sorts this out.

I'm not amused by this update. If your going to force me to spend money on the game just to go kill monsters, I don't see where the fun is any longer.

They need a better way to make money lol not like this xD Really its ripping everyone off head on lol

[CoffeeMuse]

Well, I am not sure what the motivation for this change was but I find it very poor news when the game is already struggling and I kind of just find this one more insult to injury. I've been playing this game on and off (mostly on) since it began in 2005 and I'm not finding this welcome at all.

[AlisiaMT]

U guys realize the reason people didn't use npc repair hammers was because it lowered dura right? If you were to make it so it just heals like 10% at a time but leaves dura alone and costs a decent amount you might get somewhere with them, but not everyone has access to daddy's credit card and especially in this recession not all of us have jobs / can afford or are willing to invest in IM and so there SHOULD be npc reroll hammers in the game.

[onicdesigns]

This does open the market up to buying IM hammers and selling them now for zulie. -

3m=5pt is going rate of exchange. 10pt per hammer. 6m per repair hammer.

[MidnightSmurf]

Think about the consequences of having to stop and go back to town to repair every hour or two. What if you have a spot and you risk losing it. What about having to break in the middle of a medal. To me this is just BS.

Every hour? When I tried to level my lowbie I had to break far more often the that, aoeing takes its clear toll now. Unless you are taking a stroll just for the fun of it and hitting a monster every tenth minute or so..

+1 on many posts here

[CoffeeMuse]

This does open the market up to buying IM hammers and selling them now for zulie. -

3m=5pt is going rate of exchange. 10pt per hammer. 6m per repair hammer.

I would rather go back to a monthly subscription to this game rather than buy IM hammers.

[Rooster]

This does open the market up to buying IM hammers and selling them now for zulie. -

3m=5pt is going rate of exchange. 10pt per hammer. 6m per repair hammer.

I remember being incredibly disappointed when the repair hammers would appear when I would open an IM box hoping for something useful. Mixed feelings on this now since I have a few 100 in storage. If I didn't, I would likely be unsupportive to this change.
Let me sell my hammers at 6 Mil each and I'll try to jump on the resistance's bandwagon.

[pokkaking]

People who use AOE skills will definitely be more affected as well by this change in the system.
Increased repairs cost aside, it is a bigger disincentive and a potentially big annoyance to be running
back to town for repairs every 2hrs or less depending on ur item durabilty.

I feel union equipment needs to be relooked at since durability for some of the Union gears are in fact
very low and should be adjusted with this change in the durability system.

My opinion would be to reduce rate of durability life loss and increase costs of repairs since you
want it to be a zulie drain.

Edited by pokkaking, 15 October 2011 - 10:50 PM.

[mtbpman]

I sincerely doubt this will have any positive impact on the poor being able to catch up to the wealthy as it distinctly sounds as if every1 will be repairing more. Since wealth vs cost is a scalable factor what you have effectively done is make the better items even more out of reach of those without much money because if they do get them they may not be able to afford to keep them up. Effectively this is a luxury tax placed on the luxury itself and not the ability to afford the luxury.

Other then the fiscal aspect of it I like the idea though.