13 replies to this topic

[EvilLoynis]

Hey all as you can see below I have a 99 GX that I am thinking about getting back into.

Now the main problem I had was lack of skills to mob with and I see now that GX's get 2, Counter Slash and Rolling Cutter but I can't tell which is better in the long run.


Now I am leaning towards Counter Slash as I am a DD build up to this point. It seems Rolling Cutter is only useable with Katars which makes all my nicely carded Scalpels and MG's quite worthless with it.

They Both have a 3x3 range which kinda sucks, I mean it wouldn't have broken the class to make the aoe's 5x5 imho.

At Max level CS does 800% damage and takes 17sp with a 1 sec delay. Main Down point though needs Weap Block to trigger before it can be used. Main benefit seems useable with Daggers.

RC at Max only does 200% damage for 5sp and no delay, also doesn't need Weapon Block to trigger to work. Downside Low Damage and Katar only skill.


Now a deciding factor for me may be the usefulness of Cross Ripper Slasher. I think there is a typo in the irowiki on this skill but since I have not used the skill don't know. It says that the target is self, meaning no need to click an enemy, however it also doesn't seem to have an AoE at all either. Is this the case? and how useful do you find it?

Also how long do the Rotation Counters last approximately?

Any help/opinions would be appreciated.

[Akami]

The following is from my experience from 99 to 135, using both.

Each has it's ups and downs, the biggest being that Counter Slash can be used with DD and has high damage compared to Rolling Cutter, but Rolling Cutter is spammable and works with EDP (I'm not entirely sure it does with CS, but I don't think so). Counter Slash only activates when Weapon Blocking procs, which at level 5 is almost immediately 90% of the time when you're mobbed. It also ignores defense and pushes the mob back a few cells. Due to the high damage it doesn't take much to knock out a mob with the right weapons, resulting in less SP consumption overall since you're not constantly button-mashing it.

Rolling Cutter's biggest drawback is that it can only be used with katars, but it's not necessarily a bad thing imo. With the right katar for whatever you're hunting it can still be potent, even more so if you're a big spender and use EDP to level with like I usually do, in which case it can be much faster than Counter Slash (although much more expensive). It's also rapidly spammable so damage adds up quick. Contrary to counter slash you'll have the mob on you longer, so it's usually a lot more pot spamming. I suggest using this only if you have average to high vit or are into the higher levels when your HP gets higher, or if you are well geared. According to skill update plans Rolling Cutter's range is getting changed to be 5x5 at level 5 with the future balance patch, so keep that in mind.

On the subject of Cross Ripper Slasher, I personally do not use it, nor do I know anyone that does. I haven't heard very pleasant things about it, but I can understand why; it takes a few seconds to set up the RC count and from what I've heard the damage isn't that great. The counters themselves stick around for about 2-3 seconds.

On the whole, personally, I prefer using Counter Slash. It takes more job levels to use to it's full potential, but the first few job levels come easy. From my experience it's also better for survivability assuming you have both it and Weapon Blocking maxed.

[EvilLoynis]

Thanks for the info.

According to irowiki both skills are able to use EDP but only RC gets full benefit of it (At least it doesn't say otherwise). CSlash on the other hand only gets 2.5* the damage bonus and 2* the sp cost of skill when using EDP.

Still a 1.6k-2k% CSlash compared with 800-1k RC is quite a difference.


I really appreciate it seeing as how I am NOT a big EDP user as I find that's WAY to expensive to use for leveling. I also don't like Mashing the pots down, and don't have a lot of Vit since I was a pure DD build with Grimtooth also maxed.

Really don't see why the nerf EDP so badly since it never lasts long and costs a fortune to make.

[CeruleanGamer]

Rolling Cutter is 999x better. Better DPS and it's affected by ASPD. With the correct katar, you'll be doing 7k-8k Rolling Cutters. At 193 ASPD, that's 40k damage per second....

At end game, you can't 1 shot any mob with Counter Slash anyway since stuff have so much HP. If you try to mob with Weapon Blocking, you'll find yourself suddenly stopping with Weapon Blocking triggering causing some position lags, so it's gonna be difficult to gather mobs unless you fly wing into one.

Rolling Cutter hands down. Take it from someone who 150'ed with it.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 19 October 2011 - 07:47 PM.

[Akami]

Rolling Cutter is 999x better. Better DPS and it's affected by ASPD. With the correct katar, you'll be doing 7k-8k Rolling Cutters. At 193 ASPD, that's 40k damage per second....

At end game, you can't 1 shot any mob with Counter Slash anyway since stuff have so much HP. If you try to mob with Weapon Blocking, you'll find yourself suddenly stopping with Weapon Blocking triggering causing some position lags, so it's gonna be difficult to gather mobs unless you fly wing into one.

Rolling Cutter hands down. Take it from someone who 150'ed with it.

Keep in mind that it's great in theory and at later levels, but max aspd is very difficult to get to on a GX, especially just starting out from 99. Early on in the game where he is he's probably better off with CS. And I'm also having a very hard time believing someone getting 7k hits out of RC, without using EDP or god items (or both). Especially considering mine rarely hit for over 4k EDP'd with 105 str.

[EvilLoynis]

Keep in mind that it's great in theory and at later levels, but max aspd is very difficult to get to on a GX, especially just starting out from 99. Early on in the game where he is he's probably better off with CS. And I'm also having a very hard time believing someone getting 7k hits out of RC, without using EDP or god items (or both). Especially considering mine rarely hit for over 4k EDP'd with 105 str.

I have to agree with you here.

7-8k with RC means that your normal atk is doing like 3-4k damage since RC only boosts it by 200%

[EvilLoynis]

Anyone else with some practical exp using either skill?

[CeruleanGamer]

Rolling Cutter grinding requires EDP. That's a given that's why I didn't bother mentioning it. You can't expect to level a GX solo without EDPs unless you get help from turnins, do parties with others, or you have a really good weapon to Counter Slash to the point of 1-2 shotting things, which is extremely difficult even with God items. Also, 193 is very easy with +9 Glorious or +7 Drooping Alicel. If you use Glorious, you can use a Rideword and just get an endow for the extra damage. If you use Drooping Alicel, you can use an HF Katar of of some sort but you'll have to worry about healing your SP in some way.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 20 October 2011 - 02:55 PM.

[Akami]

Rolling Cutter grinding requires EDP. That's a given that's why I didn't bother mentioning it. You can't expect to level a GX solo without EDPs unless you get help from turnins or you have a really good weapon to Counter Slash to the point of 1-2 shotting things, which is extremely difficult even with God items.

You don't need EDP to rape lower level monsters with counter slash. If he uses an inverse scale he should be fine with it in magma 2.
Also, I'm trying to be economical about this- I don't automatically assume he has access to high tier gear like that.

Edited by Akami, 20 October 2011 - 03:00 PM.

[EvilLoynis]

Rolling Cutter grinding requires EDP. That's a given that's why I didn't bother mentioning it. You can't expect to level a GX solo without EDPs unless you get help from turnins, do parties with others, or you have a really good weapon to Counter Slash to the point of 1-2 shotting things, which is extremely difficult even with God items. Also, 193 is very easy with +9 Glorious or +7 Drooping Alicel. If you use Glorious, you can use a Rideword and just get an endow for the extra damage. If you use Drooping Alicel, you can use an HF Katar of of some sort but you'll have to worry about healing your SP in some way.

Yeah taking all this into account it looks like I will be focusing on CSlash.

Apparently with what you say it's not worth leveling with RC without the following:

* Endless supply of EDP
* +9 KVM weapon or +7 Drooping Alicel (Not even sure where to get this as it's not listed on Ragial)

Taking that into account it seems CSlash wins hands down.

[ichigank]

you can still RC without EDP, it's just slower and requires more APM (i.e. you'll get tired of spamming the same key/keys)

but yea CSlash is best

Cross Ripper Slasher is also more of a gimmick skill -> for incoming monsters. Regardless of the upcoming patch from kRO for CRS EDP dmg increase,
the amount of time it takes to get 10 counters from RC for CRS to be effective is still too long.

Could connect 3 Cross Impacts in the time it takes to spam RC to 10 counters and then use CRS.

in terms of leveling without EDP:
CS > RC > GT > CI > ctrlclick

Edited by ichigank, 20 October 2011 - 08:15 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Yeah taking all this into account it looks like I will be focusing on CSlash.

Apparently with what you say it's not worth leveling with RC without the following:

* Endless supply of EDP
* +9 KVM weapon or +7 Drooping Alicel (Not even sure where to get this as it's not listed on Ragial)

Taking that into account it seems CSlash wins hands down.

RC is really faster than CSlash. I tried both methods. Yeah it's very expensive but if you are a rich veteran player such as myself,pure EDP+RC leveling can never be beat in grind speed. While Akami is making an economical suggestion, mine is an efficiency suggestion.

EDP+RC leveling works effectively at end game leveling as well and makes enemies look like a joke. EDP mats are easy to hunt except for Karvos. You can make a cultivate plant biochemist and use steal and attack all the mushrooms if you need some. Do this during a double drops week and you're set for EDP.

Also, nobody tells you that you're limited to just 1. I've seen GXes utilize both Counter Slash AND Rolling Cutter. They use Weapon Block 1 and they RC mobs first to lower their HP and then Counter Slash to finish them off.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 20 October 2011 - 11:16 PM.

[EvilLoynis]

Really only time I would find using EDP constantly is during a 2x Exp + Increased spawn time like now. However this weeks guys are not worth it, The Kobolds from 2 weeks ago would have been perfect though.

[lordidain]

Really only time I would find using EDP constantly is during a 2x Exp + Increased spawn time like now. However this weeks guys are not worth it, The Kobolds from 2 weeks ago would have been perfect though.

RC = mob rape now l..l