161 replies to this topic

[ForumZ]

Lol yes they should focus on PvP contents, unlike most of you no lives we actually want to have fun instead of farming a god damn monster for days straight for no apparent reason. Bring some action to the game and the premium accounts.. once again you're just making the game more item mall dependable.

[Genesis]

There appears to be some confusion regarding PvP and PvM content development, I'd like to go into a little more detail about what we are currently working towards and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.

Phase 1 - The System Which Drives Content

As you may have seen from the development notes posted last month, a new content system called the Game Arena is currently being developed which is designed to give players centralized and convenient access to any major repeatable content that we create for it. Behind the scenes, this system will also enable us to create PvP game and PvM dungeon content more efficiently (especially the creation of dungeons or games which have multiple level tiers or instances) and take advantage of some more complex game mechanics that weren't previously possible due to limitations of the game.

Ultimately, the Game Arena is our first step towards being able to create repeatable content that may actually be fun to play, something which can appeal to both PvP and PvM fanatics, and in general made available to a wider range of players. This may not be very exciting for you right now as there is no content actively being created for the new system, but that is unfortunately how progress works. System first, content follows.

Phase 2 - Make The Current Content Fun

Before adding any completely new dungeons or war game types, we would like to update the existing content we have and see it being used and enjoyed the way it was supposed to be. Making use of the game assets we have, we intend on redesigning existing dungeons and war games to work with the Game Arena, and to either update existing game mechanics, or to add new mechanics which would enhance the fun factor of that content.

With the help of the community's feedback, we can gauge and adjust content until we actually see players enjoying themselves, giving us important insight on the player's play styles, and on what will be needed to create new content that will continue to be enjoyed.

As mentioned in the developer notes, the first content to be updated for the Game Arena is what is currently the Union War, which will introduce level brackets and improved game play mechanics. Following that, it would only seem fair to update a PvM aspect of the game, there are currently a few candidates:

• Cave of Ulverick
• Oblivion Temple Raid Rooms (tentatively named Halls of Oblivion)
• Sikuku Ruins: Turak Maze Gauntlet

Phase 3 - New Content At Last!

With a better understanding of what the players would like to see out of ROSE based on the experiences with existing content, we can begin looking towards future content which will introduce new PvP game and PvM dungeon content. Candidates include:

• PvM
  
  • Orlo Dungeon (Zorgian Burrows)
  • Luna Dungeon (Sea of Dawn)
  • Junon Dungeon (Goblin Caves)
• PvP
  
  • Control Points
  • Capture The Flag

[TankJr]

What about u let the Community Design New Maps?
This Way u have a huge amount of New Maps and im Sure there will be a Lot of Good ideas

[KingsBane]

Thanks genesis for the first clarity we have seen in this thread. All this sounds ok but phase three before any content is considered. Most updates im or in game all seem to be database tweaking I would hope some creative new maps monsters and challeges would be looked at. This new word "repeatable content" I guess like uw we just do over and over. It is nothing new if you have ever farmed r played uw for for the last 3 years. You are getting round to fixing something most players are already sick of and are still doing only because there is nothing else to do.
Making the current content fun sounds great I just cant see how you will do that. The game has slowly had its fun removed by your updates over the years. A good place to start might be to listen to your customers instead of embarking on projects that either dont work or are loathed by players
New content Zorgian burrows (orlo3 perhaps) should be your first priority not your last. We all know how slow development goes in rose are we to wait another year for this new content.
If you really want to put the fun back add content for 220 so charactors can progress Put third jobs in new equipment new skills new items to craft give us back some wow factor.

[LadyPsyber]

Before I get started lets talk about a little thing called item mall. Back when this little pearl was getting pitched to us(who were there) it was said that the item mall would never negatively affect the game for people in game....it was used to generate money and it's purpose would be to introduce some premium content like outfits and such into the game. <--LIE
- lets all talk about a whole ton of gear sold out of the item mall that usurps anything a crafter could make.
- lets all talk about plutorunes, venurunes which saw everyone with +15s and if you don't have +15s lolerskates at you.
- lets all talk about LuckySpin which puts GAMBLING in the hands of children
- lets all talk about sagi's which make people run faster than carts
- lets all talk of boosters that buff better than clerics
- lets all talk of food that usurps anything a crafter could make
And I can keep going on.

Now lets talk about "premium accounts" which right now sound pretty innocent.
- how long until premium maps where people who don't pay can't go
- how long until premium equipment that people who don't pay can't get
- how long until premium pvp spots and places where people cannot go unless they pay money to get there to be with other suckers
And I can keep going on.
You guys might even be innocently pondering this however the track record speaks for itself...down the road, all bets are off!

Genesis...no offense but my mind works faster than most. I'm to the point where when you guys put in developer notes and such that I don't look at what was done, I look at what wasn't done because honestly what wasn't done is like 100x more interesting(and game impacting) than what was done. Pretty sad don't you think?

There appears to be some confusion regarding PvP and PvM content development, I'd like to go into a little more detail about what we are currently working towards and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.

Phase 1 - The System Which Drives Content

As you may have seen from the development notes posted last month, a new content system called the Game Arena is currently being developed which is designed to give players centralized and convenient access to any major repeatable content that we create for it. Behind the scenes, this system will also enable us to create PvP game and PvM dungeon content more efficiently (especially the creation of dungeons or games which have multiple level tiers or instances) and take advantage of some more complex game mechanics that weren't previously possible due to limitations of the game.

There's no confusion...ahahahaha AGAIN a snow job. It's nice to see how people get swayed by some words. Am the only one with eyes or am I the only one that sees?(btw: thats a LadyPsyber ™ saying...no one has said that before in an official context...I used it in University and my Prof went crazy over it)

Some things for those people who think what they just heard sounds just groovy....WHAT....HAVE....YOU....BEEN....DOING....FOR....THE....LAST...YEAR???????????????????????????????????? Candidates? We were supposed to HAVE some of those candidates by now and even if we didn't go by the words given to us by the dev's, by frigging mental calculation, ONE YEAR should be more than enough time to release quite a bit of content if there is at least one person working on it 8x5. Genesis...people might fall for your wonderful chocolaty gooey goodness words however I will NEVER fall for them. Took me all of 4 seconds to read between the lines and see you saying "no, we didn't make any useful content this last year". You do realize that all those people that have left and many of us who still (somehow) find the energy to drag ourselves into our stores don't want to hear ANYTHING other than: "bla bla pvm pvm bla pvm bla bla bla pvm bla bla pvm pvm pvm" NOT "bla bla anything other than pvm....bla bla excuse bla bla blatant avoidance of committing to pvm bla bla here, pay for MORE rose yet there's no actual value in what you suckers who might be considering paying more for rose bla bla low work for pvp bla bla did you see that wonderful item mall bla bla" and I can keep going.

From what you just said, the last year might as well not have even happened other than a bunch of fools spending ridiculous amounts of money on the item mall for silly costumes and a bunch of rehashed events. Oh we got ugly uniques that really aren't even close to unique that everyone has....cannot forget that! LASTLY and most insulting...while most of us are screaming at you for content you had the GALL to have your "free content" developers redesign maps that didn't even need redesigning. Are you TRYING to get everyone to quit because a move like that sure makes me wonder...

This is me doing a triple roll of my eyes in your general direction.(that one was created by MY development team(I don't oversee ONE(1) developer, I oversee FIFTY(50) all of who I would have FIRED many times over if they hadn't gotten something done in a year)

Edited by LadyPsyber, 31 October 2011 - 01:40 PM.

[yamz]

The Fact is they don't listen to us. They just have there own idea which they think its the best for the players.

[Rukario]

The Fact is they don't listen to us. They just have there own idea which they think its the best for the players.

I don't really believe there is anything that is "best" for the players (or game.) There are various things that could either harm or benefit, and even things that you would think to benefit it more would also harm it. It's trying to find the balance that is the hardest part. No matter what you change, there will be at least one person effected. Some of those users being effected positively and others negatively. Positives will not usually give thanks, and the negatives always complain. Because of this, we constantly get negative feedback instead of positive.

That's just how I view it.

(And I'm not ignoring the fact there are things that can simply harm, and not even be positive.)

Edited by Rukario, 31 October 2011 - 01:09 PM.

[yamz]

Thats what exactly I'm trying to say

[Rooster]

Seriously just change the name of the game to ROFE. We are going on 6+ years and there are still only 4 planets. ROSE sounds better but the name has not been earned. I want content, not tweaky little maps to an old planet's content. I would love to see new monsters, new drops and new gear and a continued story line. Why am I sad? Because I've been playing almost 6 years now and the game still isn't worthy of it's name. I'm not confident there will be another planet in the next year and it's quite obvious to me that my investment in IM purchases are not going to development of new maps. To me it's just a shame.

Priorities:
1. Fix the drop tables
2. Finish the 7 worlds
3. Work on the bugs as you go.
4. Put all this stuff you're talking about now off until a later date.... Wait until 2014 to continue working on it.

If the drop tables were fixed, I can wait a year for a new world. After that, I can wait for another year for the 6th and 7th world. 2 Years for 3 Worlds seems reasonable if all the developers are working together on it.

[PickUp]

Seriously just change the name of the game to ROFE.

ROSE stands for: Rush On Some Episodes

[Gennix]

The point is not what is going to be updated, the point is that you guys take ages to finish a simple system.

((( Community suggested updates = happy me) = happy ppl ) = happy Delevop. team ) = happy Arua blahblah

[Quid]

I thought the system that drives content was called ROSE not "Game Arena"

I know better now.

Thank you for the update on current plans for Triggersoft assets.

The lack of creative vision for the game continues to be underwhelming.

All of this new information will make it easier for some of us in our gameplay choices.

[Phish]

So, what will we actually see before the end of the year? I know you've mentioned before the game arean (and I think jewelery) would come during 2011, but from the sound of the original post it sounds like it has been delayed.

Also what is the status on Pegasus? I will say you are making the right decision actually testing the updates with the community before they go live atleast. Any estimated time we will see it?

[LordArthas]

Now lets talk about "premium accounts" which right now sound pretty innocent.
- how long until premium maps where people who don't pay can't go
- how long until premium equipment that people who don't pay can't get
- how long until premium pvp spots and places where people cannot go unless they pay money to get there to be with other suckers
And I can keep going on.
You guys might even be innocently pondering this however the track record speaks for itself...down the road, all bets are off!

The first time i read Premium Accounts, those questions came to my mind almost immediately.
Premium Accounts are will not be about some more xp or drops, they will be about all those things Lady named above. Rose wouldn't be the first game to do so. And doing this, like someone stated on this thread, there will be RRP and PRP (Rich Rose Players and Poor Rose Players). The path is clear and sadly it looks like it's unavoidable. The day Premium Content goes live is the day i'll quit ROFE (that one made my day). Pretty sad to have come to this.
And seriously Genesis, that's the content you have to offer for the next two years? Remaking maps instead of adding NEW ones? You call that content? Allow me to just point (again) to Rooster's post and ask that you read it. That's what we expect from the game and that's the content we need: new maps, new monsters, new features acessible by all alike.
But the forums (proposals and sugestions for instance) are full of things that could be done, great ideas that we never saw implemented and, sadly, that we never will.
I feel sad for all the negativity i used in all my posts in this thread. But the point is: WE are upset, WE are sad and WE feel cheated. Pretty hard to be positive in those circumstances.
Last note: make no mistakes, Gravity. If there is so many flaming it's not because we like to flame to pass time. It's because WE CARE. I wish i could be sure you do too.

[onicdesigns]

#1: Fix the rabbit spawns for the event outfit quest.
#2: Those that were not able to do the quest could you give something? Please. I wanted the quest for the reward.

[KTFlash]

Fix.The.Drop.Table.

Continue with new and no new remaked content. I told a friend to play and he didn't want cause he saw the game some time ago and was exactly the same. You losing new players. Zant is desertic. Adv plains is desertic. The only new characters are made for old players cause are bored of all their 220s.

You know what may help? Contest to to help creating. I know there are LOT of ideas around there, and for a game-prize, you can get good new content, attracting more people to play.

Edited by KTFlash, 31 October 2011 - 05:47 PM.

[Kaizy]

Is Ron still going to be in charge (if he still is) come 2012? His tenure has been pretty disappointing besides a few things (mostly cosmetic). At least when you had your short stint Cal the costume system came out. It's a shame they don't let a certain someone have another shot.

Anyway, premium accounts. Woo, slippery slope all over again. I can only imagine a year from now what the game will be like with the minds over there. Probably end up making basic things like partying and trade a premium account feature. lol I actually don't think they're such a bad idea in theory but I doubt Gravity's execution. If they are introduced, give them new features and don't go restricting/taking away features from free players. And make it worthwhile. If a premium account has to spend as much on IM as a free account it won't be too appealing (unless they want to).

For the events, please develop something that will allow you to be more innovative and creative with events instead of oh talk to this NPC and cycle through some text and get a prize or fetch/kill quests. King's Quest was a great quest idea but the bonus stats part was lame.

Game Arena would be a big plus and one of the few major improvements to the game like the costume system was. Hopefully it's not poorly executed like most everything else. If you are introducing a queue though, why not include a party queue for each server or map? One that you could join if you were looking for a party and it would show your name/level/map you were on. Would make it easier for people to find parties.

PAT system definitely needs an update. Is the race track type stuff still being considered? Castle gear sucks because everyone of the same class has similar stats in them and they're slow as hell and can't use skills. Pre-evo had cart skills so why not work off that base for CG as well as carts. Or give different PAT items special abilities/bonuses like when having Jet Boosters equipped you can use a skill similar to Charge that would boost your mspd temporarily.

Not too hopeful on the supposed jewelry update. Just remember if you make all high statted jewelry drop from mobs/uw you're killing another part of crafters since they currently craft some of the best jewelry. Also what good will the substats be on the higher level jewelry when people tend to gem them? Is this going to outclass gems? What good will the gems be then? Or are you talking about it just having 2 stats and can still be gemmed?

I don't blame you guys for doing away with Pegasus. No one ever tested on there properly anyway besides like 5 people. Although there was way too much limitation when it was up. You expected people to test things like PvP and whatnot with just what they had available. If you do bring it back, make sure to put things like gems/jewelry/eq and skill/stat resets at npcs. Just wondering if you're getting another server to be Pegasus or what since the old pegasus became Draco.

The Fact is they don't listen to us. They just have there own idea which they think its the best for the players.

Also this is too true.

Edited by Kaizy, 31 October 2011 - 09:45 PM.

[LordAlbion]

The Fact is they don't listen to us. They just have there own idea which they think its the best for the players.

That's been the PROBLEM from the begining. The SAY they want feedback (bs), but pick and choose what suits them.

[tythemuss]

The Fact is they don't listen to us. They just have there own idea which they think its the best for the players.

That fact is, this is a company owned game. A player plays the game, not own it (thats why its called a player)... Now a good developer takes in some feed back not all. And builds a game that the developer feels like is a good game, not what the player thinks is a good game. Now if anyone has any delusions about owning this game or thinking they have an equal share in what gets added or not to the game and keeps whining about crap that should be added or taken out that the developer doesn't want to add or take out, seriously should just leave. What they add is what they think is best for the players thats why they add it

Edited by tythemuss, 31 October 2011 - 11:39 PM.

[KTFlash]

What they add is what they think is best for the players thats why they add it

And from the feedback, should know that isn't.

[tythemuss]

And from the feedback, should know that isn't.

Now a good developer takes in some feed back not all.

Please read before posting.

[KingsBane]

The company may own the game it does not own players. I loved playing rose but the people in charge are eroding that love update by update. Lack of any plan that players have any confidence in and worst of all the belief by gms that they know best. Clam masters are noticing the drop in members. Most people dont leave they just run out of the will to log on for another dose of nothing. I dont care how much itemmall you release even as it effects game play more and more but i do care about the total lack of content lack of vision and lack of effort that players are experiencing

[Calanor]

Anyway, premium accounts. Woo, slippery slope all over again. I can only imagine a year from now what the game will be like with the minds over there. Probably end up making basic things like partying and trade a premium account feature. lol I actually don't think they're such a bad idea in theory but I doubt Gravity's execution. If they are introduced, give them new features and don't go restricting/taking away features from free players. And make it worthwhile. If a premium account has to spend as much on IM as a free account it won't be too appealing (unless they want to).

Having premium content isn't bad, but its how its different from other content which makes it sketchy.
It doesn't make sense to force players to party with only premium, or to make premium users stand out in some large significant way.
This doesn't mean that some content maybe limited or offered for just Premium Users.
For now the premium system is going to cover a few things that are basically Item Mall values you guys see and use.
We are adding in the ability to trigger through the quest system for a premium users, we have talked about daily quests for premium users or better rewarding daily quests for premium users and giving the same quests to non-premium.
Content like PvP or Leveling won't be for premium only, but with a small team its harder to keep moving forward on bigger projects if when they go out they don't off set the costs of them.
Its a balancing line and at times we may step to one side or the other.
Look at how RO and Requiem Premium/VIP accounts work and get an idea of what we are also aiming for.
http://www.playragna...vippackage.aspx
http://www.playrequi...iumPackage.aspx

There are differences between them and we won't be taking on the exact same model of one or the other but will make it fit to ROSE.

For the events, please develop something that will allow you to be more innovative and creative with events instead of oh talk to this NPC and cycle through some text and get a prize or fetch/kill quests. King's Quest was a great quest idea but the bonus stats part was lame.

I agree with you on Events, but I think we have good events its just that you have been playing for 5 years now and the Christmas event you have seen 5 different times, we need to elaborate much more on the events.
I wish it would be easier for us to take in PickUp's event ideas he thinks along the same lines I do for Event, it just a challenge to put more work to the grind stone, and to do an Event or lets say add in a good quest line for an event takes 1 week of 1 person's time and its a struggle.
We are like the community lots of ideas, just no where in the right place to get them all done with the speed that the community wants.

But I am equally as frustrated about the Events.
the Pirate Event was a shot at something new and we learned from it to make something better.
We are going to put out a Thanksgiving Event (haven't done one before really) and we will try something new again.
If we don't push harder then the events will just be the same and that is not acceptable in my book.

Game Arena would be a big plus and one of the few major improvements to the game like the costume system was. Hopefully it's not poorly executed like most everything else. If you are introducing a queue though, why not include a party queue for each server or map? One that you could join if you were looking for a party and it would show your name/level/map you were on. Would make it easier for people to find parties.

Actually part of the Game Arena will allow for a Party to queue in for one of the Arena Matches.
We also want to make use of the Game Arena for the Instances (though few currently, we want to add to this over time this is the PvM content that Genesis talked about).
We have talked about a Party Finder system for years now and I am in hopes as you are that the Game Arena will allow for us to put in a party search function based on mechanics behind the Game Arena.

PAT system definitely needs an update. Is the race track type stuff still being considered? Castle gear sucks because everyone of the same class has similar stats in them and they're slow as hell and can't use skills. Pre-evo had cart skills so why not work off that base for CG as well as carts. Or give different PAT items special abilities/bonuses like when having Jet Boosters equipped you can use a skill similar to Charge that would boost your mspd temporarily.

You are on the same path that we are on with the PAT system.
Structure, then skills then new fun stuff to do with the PAT

I don't blame you guys for doing away with Pegasus. No one ever tested on there properly anyway besides like 5 people. Although there was way too much limitation when it was up. You expected people to test things like PvP and whatnot with just what they had available. If you do bring it back, make sure to put things like gems/jewelry/eq and skill/stat resets at npcs. Just wondering if you're getting another server to be Pegasus or what since the old pegasus became Draco.

Sadly I worry that again Pegasus will just be a time sink for us and we won't get the participation that we need.
Live feedback has its benefits and negatives, we get the numbers but we don't get the smiles with its negative and needs changes.
We have some things in mind to focus the testing on pegasus, its going to be a bit of a different server since we just want to test specific aspects of future updates and not turn it into a high rate server to screw around on and then complain when all the gear is broken and you want more zulie to buy stuff.

[tythemuss]

The company may own the game it does not own players.

Are you serious? of course it means they own the player! Theres even a agreement you have to accept. As long as the player is in game playing their game, you have no say in what happens. They could bann you for a laugh and you would be powerless to do anything. Dont like it? leave.

I loved playing rose but the people in charge are eroding that love update by update. Lack of any plan that players have any confidence in and worst of all the belief by gms that they know best. Clam masters are noticing the drop in members. Most people dont leave they just run out of the will to log on for another dose of nothing. I dont care how much itemmall you release even as it effects game play more and more but i do care about the total lack of content lack of vision and lack of effort that players are experiencing

Drop in members? Rose been the most active it has been in a long long long long long time. Sure i only log in for some time then log out, but i do that with all games or i have something better to do. @ the IM statement- At least they are even putting out patches, even if it is IM, it gives things for people to collect or encourage them to farm / lvl (if it gives added drops / xp). Most games update a game like every month, you should be bloody happy that rose gets a update every week even if it is bug fixes or IM. But i do agree with the lack of content Rose has... Ive been playing for a long time now and even i thought most of the big updates could of came out a bit earlier

[Zayin]

Are you serious? of course it means they own the player! Theres even a agreement you have to accept. As long as the player is in game playing their game, you have no say in what happens. They could bann you for a laugh and you would be powerless to do anything. Dont like it? leave.

What are you saying? They can't own players . In that case you wouldn't be allowed to stop playing their game, which is not the case.

Edited by Zayin, 01 November 2011 - 03:05 PM.