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Knight's: The Art of the Sword and Shield


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#1 shokwavez

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 04:58 PM

BY ROSE DEFINITION:

Since Knights possess decent physical strength and high defense, it is possible to deal with stronger enemies when supported with magic skills that amplify their abilities.
When in a party, Knights can lead the battle and directly confront the enemy as the first line of defense. They are not only efficient in protecting party members, but they can also cast some support magic skills to aid party members from a distance.

Okay. Let me cut to the chase. Knight's were made to support other people. But to this day .. well here's a common scenario for Knight's in wars:

Clan War

Sword Knight: OKAY GUYS I GOT THIS! Let me go in first and taunt them while you guys kill them!
Clan: Oh hell yea we got this! FOOL PROOF!
-Knight enters inside Training Grounds-
Enemy Clan: LOLOL!
-Gangs knight momentarily-
Sword Knight: (YES WE GOT THIS IN THE BAG!)
-Clan enters soon after-
-Enemy clan changes target to other people-
Sword Knight: (Time for my trump card!) (Impact Wave!)
-Momentarily Inconveniences Enemy-
-Enemy clan continues onslaught-
-Enemy clan kills the clan and knight last-

Enemy Clan: Fail.


Let me propose giving Knight's "super buffs". Keep in mind these buffs differ from cleric buffs! So these buffs will stack current ones. However,
these buffs will be removed instantly when leaving the radius of the knight.

A knight might also choose only one of these per cast. You cannot use all three of these at once. (Way to OP IMO/ Debatable)
Overall these "Support Skills" would be relatively LOW in cool down for micromanaging purposes. Roughly at the top of my head 10-15 seconds

So generally knight's would have to constantly re-use these skills and run with their party to make the difference in war.



Guardian Shield
(For those that play Starcraft 2 you know what I mean).
-AOE Protection Buff that gives additional +20% DEF (debatable) that targets friendly members (Clan/Party)
-This buff would be a radius of ~10-15 meters that lasts ~10 seconds
-Those within the radius will receive a significant boost in defense


Divine Rage

-AOE AP buff that gives additional +20% AP (debatable) that targets friendly members (Clan/Party)
-This buff would be a radius of ~10-15 meters that lasts ~10 seconds


Spirit Of Arua
-This would be similar to purify potions
-This buff would be a radius of ~10-15 meters
-Basically prevents any abnormality for ~5-10 sec


Alternative


Holy Blessing
I was thinking maybe instead of a buff-type skill you can turn this into a micro type skill.
-Simply cast it when using the knight and it will purify friendly targets within the perimeter
-Casting radius would be 15m (At MAX lvl)
-Cool down would only be ~5-10 sec


Outrage
-Provokes and diverts all monsters/foes towards the knight
-This would be an AOE Taunting Skill similar to combining Sacrifice and Impact Wave, very ideal and would be very interesting to see in wars.
-AOE range would be ~15 meters
-This skill will also cast an AP debuff skill for a limited amount of time

Edited by shokwavez, 19 November 2011 - 08:23 PM.

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#2 Phish

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:20 PM

Those in official descriptions are so outdated. It wouldn't be bad to see a support type skill available for knights.


Short buffs like that will only be useful if they stack with the existing buffs. (ie it would have to be a new type of buff other than defense. Something similar to additional damage such as additional resilience could work.)

For example the common additional damage buff: Valkrye charm increases damage by 30% (at max level), an additional resilience for example could do the opposite: reduce intake damage by 30% (or whatever amount).

Of course it would need a short duration and a long cooldown like you said. But strong unique skills like these can make gameplay more interesting because you can't rely on them and would have to choose the right time to use it (without being an auto win button like anti magic shell in pvp).
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#3 shokwavez

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:52 PM

Those in official descriptions are so outdated. It wouldn't be bad to see a support type skill available for knights.


Short buffs like that will only be useful if they stack with the existing buffs. (ie it would have to be a new type of buff other than defense. Something similar to additional damage such as additional resilience could work.)

For example the common additional damage buff: Valkrye charm increases damage by 30% (at max level), an additional resilience for example could do the opposite: reduce intake damage by 30% (or whatever amount).

Of course it would need a short duration and a long cooldown like you said. But strong unique skills like these can make gameplay more interesting because you can't rely on them and would have to choose the right time to use it (without being an auto win button like anti magic shell in pvp).


Exactly! This game would definitely be more fun pvp-wise. People would have to actually "strategize" with knight's that would have to learn to micro these skills =]
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#4 KTFlash

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 10:14 PM

I'm inclined to agree. Right now, everything in wars is raider/champ. We need more variety. Would be great if can take other classes, like bourg.
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#5 tythemuss

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:48 AM

Enemy clan gangs knight... knight dies in 5 seconds, onslaught continues :/
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#6 shokwavez

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:49 AM

Enemy clan gangs knight... knight dies in 5 seconds, onslaught continues :/


Come on that could be said about any suggestions like this. The point I'm trying to drive through here is that now, Knight's will also be a prime target (which is what we want)
other than support clerics. War would be quite different and last quite longer in this aspect.

And well I've read your suggestion on Knight PvP's. And I've been a knight for a really long time before my raider and mage. I'm pretty sure we can both agree that Knight's
just aren't cutting it nowdays. There's obviously an "unknown" defense cap beyond 16k and reaching 20k DEF hardly makes a difference. So of course other factors such as:
-tweaking the cap for DEF
-Giving knight's an agility passive or skill
Etc.

Simply proposing that Knight's should be more optimal at this point. Rather than the daily raiders..champs.. and occasional bourgs and scouts (that's a whole another story).

Edited by shokwavez, 07 November 2011 - 12:03 PM.

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#7 JordanX

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:16 AM

i think the defense buff of a Knight should be equal or higher then the IM booster
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#8 shokwavez

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:31 PM

i think the defense buff of a Knight should be equal or higher then the IM booster


Well disregarding boosters, I do believe knight's should have a a stronger defense buff. But it wouldn't really matter with the defense cap. ._.
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#9 Phish

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:49 PM

Knights are the only class that do not have a buff that is stronger than a buff pot (unless you want to count shield reflect).

Champio: Berserk, (Charge)
Mage: Spirit Boost
Cleric: Battle Charm (Hustle Charm with high int on a class without mspeed passive), (Valkrye charm)
Raider: Mirror Phantasm, Rapid Twitch, Vicious Accordance, Critical Accordance (Cloak/Stealth), Evasive Guard
Scout: Rapid Twitch, (Mirror Phantasm)
Bourgious/Artisan: Intensify Weapon



I think boosting Safe Guard to 30% defense/25% magic defense wouldn't be a bad thing. Even though defense scales slowly it does make a difference, specifically when you get debuffed by a defense down skill.
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#10 shokwavez

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:15 PM

Knights are the only class that do not have a buff that is stronger than a buff pot (unless you want to count shield reflect).

Champio: Berserk, (Charge)
Mage: Spirit Boost
Cleric: Battle Charm (Hustle Charm with high int on a class without mspeed passive), (Valkrye charm)
Raider: Mirror Phantasm, Rapid Twitch, Vicious Accordance, Critical Accordance (Cloak/Stealth), Evasive Guard
Scout: Rapid Twitch, (Mirror Phantasm)
Bourgious/Artisan: Intensify Weapon



I think boosting Safe Guard to 30% defense/25% magic defense wouldn't be a bad thing. Even though defense scales slowly it does make a difference, specifically when you get debuffed by a defense down skill.


Yea I considered the debuff defense down. It does help. But what you listed it is sad lol.. What does the make knight's exactly? A champion without a weapon @_@
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#11 MidnightSmurf

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 02:55 PM

(without being an auto win button like anti magic shell in pvp).


Hehe, as you can see in this thread not many seems to reason the debuffing is OP. Debuff

What does the make knight's exactly? A champion without a weapon @_@


Yeppers, and since they don't have a weapon they tend to focus on defence. Knights are tho a bit tougher to kill then a champ. But that's the whole point of a Knight, and I think you're suggestion about supportive skills aint a shabby one. Would be nice to see, adding to the tactic parts when playing in a party. Just have to make sure it doesn't get TOO high influence.
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#12 CastanhoBR

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:21 PM

No, no and NO!

Knight are made for tank! In ANY game you play, you will always have knghts that is good at tanking and not much at atacking.
At least, all i thnk is, some other class on this server are kinda overpowered comparated to knight, so they become useless.
For example. Champion... you can also have great ap, hp, def, why knght so???
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#13 shokwavez

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 07:49 PM

No, no and NO!

Knight are made for tank! In ANY game you play, you will always have knghts that is good at tanking and not much at atacking.
At least, all i thnk is, some other class on this server are kinda overpowered comparated to knight, so they become useless.
For example. Champion... you can also have great ap, hp, def, why knght so???


Well yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting here lol. I'm simply proposing knight's to be more functional than just meat shields waiting to die.
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#14 JordanX

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:01 AM

No, no and NO!

Knight are made for tank! In ANY game you play, you will always have knghts that is good at tanking and not much at atacking.
At least, all i thnk is, some other class on this server are kinda overpowered comparated to knight, so they become useless.
For example. Champion... you can also have great ap, hp, def, why knght so???


yes but its hard to be a good tank with a defense cap o.o
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#15 Feuer

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 04:25 PM

I have this suspicion her didn't read the post, anything not pertaining to that persons class is irrelevant, however should someone propose a buff for his class it would be Yes yes and YES. There's should be any type of cap, let the stat stack high as the player can build their EQ, then It's up to the players how to stat their stats for each class. Knight needs DEF and HP, standard. They should

-attack at an average strength and rate.
-attack with an above normal accuracy.
-Have the best defense capability of all classes.
-have same HP or slightly above other melee classes like champions and raiders.

thats it. Thats all that classifies a knight is the generic definition, which no offense to the current state of the game, is not even close to ROSE knights. Their def is hardly better than a champ, their attack is literally the lowest, HP is same as a champ, resistances suck, accuracy lowers attack ability even further, and don't get me started on 0 tanking ability in combat against players.
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#16 JordanX

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:37 AM

Knights should have more HP then Champion as well since it's a tank class.
They don't have any other HP Passives.
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#17 iBryan

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 09:35 AM

No, no and NO!

Knight are made for tank! In ANY game you play, you will always have knghts that is good at tanking and not much at atacking.
At least, all i thnk is, some other class on this server are kinda overpowered comparated to knight, so they become useless.
For example. Champion... you can also have great ap, hp, def, why knght so???



Uh champions have great AP,ACC,DEF,HP,CRIT,MSPD basically everything on the book, this is why there's barely any other classes besides Raider/Champ. The power is being implemented to one class, which makes everyone run to it. The whole idea is to have every class have it's own use, when you have a champion tanking as much as a knight how does that knight look? There's barely any difference in HP/DEF between a champion and a knight. That leads to... knight players going for champion as well. Adding more importance to a knight sounds like a great idea to me, shouldn't just be a punching bag out there, no class should be. Maybe with the "balancing update" there will be other class popularity besides champion/raider. Half the players on rose, are just hiding behind champion power, get it nerfed watch them scatter like roaches.

+1 Shockwave

Edited by iBryan, 07 November 2011 - 09:36 AM.

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#18 shokwavez

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:24 AM

I have this suspicion her didn't read the post, anything not pertaining to that persons class is irrelevant, however should someone propose a buff for his class it would be Yes yes and YES. There's should be any type of cap, let the stat stack high as the player can build their EQ, then It's up to the players how to stat their stats for each class. Knight needs DEF and HP, standard. They should

-attack at an average strength and rate.
-attack with an above normal accuracy.
-Have the best defense capability of all classes.
-have same HP or slightly above other melee classes like champions and raiders.

thats it. Thats all that classifies a knight is the generic definition, which no offense to the current state of the game, is not even close to ROSE knights. Their def is hardly better than a champ, their attack is literally the lowest, HP is same as a champ, resistances suck, accuracy lowers attack ability even further, and don't get me started on 0 tanking ability in combat against players.


Hey Feuer! Good to hear from ya =]. But yea, compared to other private servers like ROSE Online, regardless of their old style of game play (especially pvp wise) everything was quite fairly balanced. The knight's here compared to the knights in ROSE Online is embarrassing. MDEF and DEF for a knight there has actually proven to make a significant difference as a classified knight. The lack of MDEF a person had actually greatly affected the outcome of stunning. Whereas in this rose, when I played as a mage for a pretty long while .. your MDEF needs to be skyhigh =_=. I played knight as well as my first character on this rose. It was fun (for a ONE ON ONE situation only) but that's the most I can say. For war scenarios like I posted ^ I quickly realized Knight is not the pathto take ..

Uh champions have great AP,ACC,DEF,HP,CRIT,MSPD basically everything on the book, this is why there's barely any other classes besides Raider/Champ. The power is being implemented to one class, which makes everyone run to it. The whole idea is to have every class have it's own use, when you have a champion tanking as much as a knight how does that knight look? There's barely any difference in HP/DEF between a champion and a knight. That leads to... knight players going for champion as well. Adding more importance to a knight sounds like a great idea to me, shouldn't just be a punching bag out there, no class should be. Maybe with the "balancing update" there will be other class popularity besides champion/raider. Half the players on rose, are just hiding behind champion power, get it nerfed watch them scatter like roaches.

+1 Shockwave


Thank you bryan! =P. Yea .. if ONLY this game was more diverse .. or more balanced I should say. It really does get old seeing only raiders and champs everywhere .__. being a raider myself.

Bleh its a shame. Even with all these other nice proposals out here, I really doubt the dev's are taking the time to consider any of this..

Edited by shokwavez, 08 November 2011 - 12:25 AM.

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#19 Feuer

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 02:10 AM

No they are definitely considering it. But these things take time, take it from someone who does what they do, only i dont have a team at all, everything i make/code/design or mod, i do myself, and its tough.
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#20 shokwavez

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:45 AM

No they are definitely considering it. But these things take time, take it from someone who does what they do, only i dont have a team at all, everything i make/code/design or mod, i do myself, and its tough.


I hope sooo. I'm still roootin for ya Feuer =]
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#21 shokwavez

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:45 PM

I really wish to see any kind of notes about 3rd job or modifying/adding new skills in the distant future .__.
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#22 Feuer

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:48 AM

There's an aura of secrecy regarding the third class possibility, I've contacted Calanor myself about my proposition thread, and was receiving feedback until the topic of 3rd or even extensions to classes was brought up, after that sheer silence. So who knows, its one of the topics the dev team refuses to acknowledge, regardless if its a plan they have, or if they don't want to definitively say it won't happen, only to change their minds later. But that's also what I would expect them to professionally do, if the decision hasn't been made by them yet, I wouldn't expect them to even comment on the subject. Class balancing however they're diligently working on, as you can tell by the implementations of new systems, since they already converted the factions to the new system, they now MUST follow through with it or else it's a total bust. :bang:
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#23 shokwavez

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:15 PM

There's an aura of secrecy regarding the third class possibility, I've contacted Calanor myself about my proposition thread, and was receiving feedback until the topic of 3rd or even extensions to classes was brought up, after that sheer silence. So who knows, its one of the topics the dev team refuses to acknowledge, regardless if its a plan they have, or if they don't want to definitively say it won't happen, only to change their minds later. But that's also what I would expect them to professionally do, if the decision hasn't been made by them yet, I wouldn't expect them to even comment on the subject. Class balancing however they're diligently working on, as you can tell by the implementations of new systems, since they already converted the factions to the new system, they now MUST follow through with it or else it's a total bust. :P


Yea, I haven't lost all hope yet lolz. With this Battle Arena coming out (hopefully by this and next year..) that the dev's would pull off something amazing to get everyone
(including me) off their asses.
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#24 shokwavez

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

bump

Really hoping they do take the route into implementing some kind of micro ability for knights.

Edited by shokwavez, 03 May 2012 - 06:37 PM.

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#25 jerremy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:24 AM

If they do, they should be usable by crossbow knights too (not yet mentioned but I guess people thought this would count for crossbow as well).
There actually is a bit of micro ability, if you learn battle cry, howl, scream. Fairly useful in war situations, but adding a bit more supportive type skills would be great.

Also, the crossbow knight, even though it has the range advantage, can't aoe, making the dmg output in CD even lower than sword knight, which is already low.
Plus, the taunt shot (though impact wave isn't working as well and should be fixed, but I'm not very wise on sword knight) doesn't really taunt the ten seconds it says it does.
I would prefer to see a sort of grappling/binding shot. If succesful, the arrow would pull back incredibily fast, throwing the enemy on the knight, being unable to escape.
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