34 replies to this topic

[Okii]

Okay... novice reds are nice and they are somewhat a gift to us from the GM's for a little extra boost...
But when you're doing Eden turn-ins for Sponiac at level 26-40, novice reds really don't cut it as a reward.
Sorry to complain but we need to change the reds at that range to novice yellows.

From 56-70 the reward should be novice white potions for one of the quests.
I know this could remove some of the zeny sinkage and whatnot, but white potions are really expensive.
REALLY expensive.

I actually want to propose cutting the price of whites and other potions by 1/4.
As a new player it is really difficult to farm enough loot to pay for necessary gear (phen carded clip/belt, etc.) when also having to pay 1k for one pot.
I know, I know. Make a merchant with Discount level 10. Still, it's difficult to afford until you're high enough to loot the good stuff.

Novice potions red up to 20, yellow to 50, and white to 70. After that, you can afford your own.
Account bound and character bound. Add a cooldown of a few hours if needed. Not a problem, right?


http://forums.warppo...onseden-quests/
^Fungi Topic on this

Edited by Okii, 31 October 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[ExDarkrb]

Sulfuric approved =P

[CeruleanGamer]

How about the alchemists who make a living selling their manufactured pots.

[Mefistofeles]

How about the alchemists who make a living selling their manufactured pots.

thats sarcams, right?

[Okii]

How about the alchemists who make a living selling their manufactured pots.

novice potions never heal as much as regular potions.
Also, the pots I am asking for are character and account bound and stop at 70, which means their supply will eventually run out.
No worries.

[IronPlushy]

As a brand new player, I can honestly say that any class that relies on potions to heal is at a huge disadvantage. After level 20, Novice reds are pretty useless, and I'm at 54 and if I didn't transfer loot from my 93 priest to my 53, I would probably have to quit. Even gathering every single piece of loot doesn't cut it. Even after transferring a ton of loot to my 53 account, I an running low on zenny again, I mean 200 zeny for one orange potion? That 20,000 zenny everytime I go out, and I'm definitely not bringing back 20,000+ zenny in loot from level 20-50. I'm really not sure what new players are suppose to do. If it weren't for the generous donations to my priest, I would be SOL at this point.

[Mefistofeles]

As a brand new player, I can honestly say that any class that relies on potions to heal is at a huge disadvantage. After level 20, Novice reds are pretty useless, and I'm at 54 and if I didn't transfer loot from my 93 priest to my 53, I would probably have to quit. Even gathering every single piece of loot doesn't cut it. Even after transferring a ton of loot to my 53 account, I an running low on zenny again, I mean 200 zeny for one orange potion? That 20,000 zenny everytime I go out, and I'm definitely not bringing back 20,000+ zenny in loot from level 20-50. I'm really not sure what new players are suppose to do. If it weren't for the generous donations to my priest, I would be SOL at this point.

best comment ever.... becouse actually i can do a properly post about this, becouse it have more than 2 years that i dont level up from a novice character XP, but this info looks very accurate, i leveled recently my sin, wich it have to use only like 90 orange pots for each 40%(NORMAL GRINDING NO TURNS LIKE EDEN OR OTHER CRAP) and i could never afford those pots for my sin i havent my 150 chars XP, thats why getting partys its important at the begin of this game

[Okii]

I used to drop a quarter of a mil on like 100 white pots.
Then I decided to work towards gears with higher defense and better upgrades because in the long run, you save.
Upgrading a Nid to +7 can be scary cause you're gambling with 50M...
Idk. It still takes a lot of zeny to solo level a bunch of classes because of pots.

[Loki1669]

If you're having difficulty making money, then go out and hunt stuff that people need. Your best bet is to use a thief/rogue to make a good amount of money ganking/stealing from monsters. You can start doing this as low as level 30.

Also, don't underestimate the power of farming shining plants/blue plants. You can make lots of money OC'ing blue potions to the NPC in your early days of playing. Of course, this means you have to know how to make blue potions out of the blue herbs you collect.

Edited by Loki1669, 01 November 2011 - 12:12 AM.

[morphine]

Reducing the price of potions in general would probably not be the best route; the game needs all the zeny sinks it can get.

One thing I was wondering about since the other day is why don't they update the NPCs that exchange newbie loot for potions? You know, the kind that gives you a whole red potion for 10 jellopy... >_>;;;; I seriously doubt that they get any use now, even if they did in the past (I don't know anyone who really found them helpful). There are quite a few items at low levels with virtually no value or use, so why not exchange them for some character-bound potions? e.g. Novice Red Potion for Barren Trunk, Novice Orange for Decayed Nail... With a level cap, it might be a reasonable way to help with supplies for new players as they adjust to the game, while hopefully not being very abusable.

Somehow, I think they intended for people to most often be in parties with support... :/ I wish that was the case, but I suppose things have to be dealt with as they are.

[Kadnya]

I would much rather give a use to all the low level recovery items which are cheap enough for low level charas to buy. For example, making carrots, pumpkins, bananas, and milk heal a decent amount, but only on first and trans first classes. Then maybe make milk, potato, and so on, heal a bit more than the previous, but only if you are under level 80~

Maybe then a cooking quest in eden group to make potions based on those ingredients...

[Gangstaz]

pre-renewal leveling, i used meat.

blacksmith/mastersmith's cart had 8000 weight worth of meat. 2 spring rabbit clips. whooo hooo!

and meat is as cheap as a red pot too, and they heal as good as yellow pots.

and with double spring rabbit, they healed way better than whites.

Edited by Gangstaz, 01 November 2011 - 05:23 AM.

[Kadnya]

pre-renewal leveling, i used meat.

blacksmith/mastersmith's cart had 8000 weight worth of meat. 2 spring rabbit clips. whooo hooo!

and meat is as cheap as a red pot too, and they heal as good as yellow pots.

and with double spring rabbit, they healed way better than whites.

I still use meat as a mechanic. With double hellpoodle clips, I spend like, 9000zeny per run on healing supplies, which is highly outweighted by the zeny made greeding

[mooMOOmoo]

Working as intended since 2003. And then new players are too spoiled with carebear novice red potions already. They need to learn how to level up under wonderful poverty. Out of potions, low health, and no money to buy more? Take a 10 minute break sitting down and your bars will be full by then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhOsHqaGkXI&feature=related

Kill monters 10-20 levels below you to minimize damage you take, and more kills per hour spending less potions = less money.
Go to botland maps like Elder Willows and pick up leftover loot on the ground.

Or make a battle priest. No potions needed.

Edited by mooMOOmoo, 01 November 2011 - 06:58 AM.

[asayuu]

Sometimes certain comments are not necessary. And actually, it was possible to abuse novice red potions when they where not account bound.

Meat is one of the best items for healing, because of the low price and high heal amount [around the same as an Orange for a non-vit character]

They don't need to learn to live without money. They need to learn how to make it.

I made my archer yesterday. The first thing I did was checking buying shops on Prontera. Found Blood of Wolf for 30k, and then started farming some. Got only one [got 4 levels on the zone and wanted to go to Ant Hell ;o;] and made the 30k. It helped me badly. And if I wanted more, I could always return to the map and get more.

Also. 56-70 should give nothing. On valk people usually maneater all the way to 71.

Edited by asayuu, 01 November 2011 - 07:54 AM.

[Okii]

Sometimes certain comments are not necessary. And actually, it was possible to abuse novice red potions when they where not account bound.

Meat is one of the best items for healing, because of the low price and high heal amount [around the same as an Orange for a non-vit character]

They don't need to learn to live without money. They need to learn how to make it.

I made my archer yesterday. The first thing I did was checking buying shops on Prontera. Found Blood of Wolf for 30k, and then started farming some. Got only one [got 4 levels on the zone and wanted to go to Ant Hell ;o;] and made the 30k. It helped me badly. And if I wanted more, I could always return to the map and get more.

Also. 56-70 should give nothing. On valk people usually maneater all the way to 71.

Lol Asayuu, that was too fun xD
I'm a lvl 72 HP now :3/


And yeah making money is important too, but really, when you start playing, leveling is the first thing the player wants to do. Not run around and figure out what to sell and for how much. I hear you guys about earning money and I am well aware of using sweet clips, spring rabbit clips, etc., but newer players are not.

If there needs to be a cool down of about 3-5 hours to retake the novice whites quest, I can understand why. It should give about 75 whites to teach the player to use them sparingly and level on things that don't beat you to a pulp in a matter of seconds. When they use all their pots up, they have to face the cool down. After 70, they can no longer take on the quest. Eventually their pots will run out. A lot of people skip through 56-70 using maneater blossoms, which I highly doubt they will stop doing for the novice whites quest if they have enough zeny to buy maneaters.

And then new players are too spoiled with carebear novice red potions already. They need to learn how to level up under wonderful poverty. Out of potions, low health, and no money to buy more? Take a 10 minute break sitting down and your bars will be full by then.

Kill monters 10-20 levels below you to minimize damage you take, and more kills per hour spending less potions = less money.
Go to botland maps like Elder Willows and pick up leftover loot on the ground.

Or make a battle priest. No potions needed.

Spoiled? No.
Sponiac gives red pots with the quest but they are literally useless at that level. And that's pretty funny.... I'd like to see you sit down for ten minutes after every 2-7 monsters you kill. You're probably loaded with zeny and so you feel the need to come here and give everyone a speech about things you haven't practiced for a long time, if ever.

It's like when people hypocritically complain about how nobody walks around and explores anymore, but then they teleport everywhere as well.

As for making a battle priest...
You have a point. If everyone just started out as a battle priest then everything would be just fine.
Realistically, this won't happen.
Expecting everyone to make a certain class to start off with is not ideal.
I'm fairly certain you did not start out with one yourself, as when you first begin playing you don't think of a priest as anything but a healer.

Edited by Okii, 01 November 2011 - 09:00 AM.

[CheddarJack]

I think something like mentioning to new players about buy shops in the novice grounds would be a nice addition. That way they know right off the bat a few low lvl things they can collect and sell to others looking to buy them.

For example, bee stings are something every GX needs to make EDP's. So people have buy shops for them. They are easy to get from hornets and shouldnt take long to gather 100's of them.

[Okii]

I think something like mentioning to new players about buy shops in the novice grounds would be a nice addition. That way they know right off the bat a few low lvl things they can collect and sell to others looking to buy them.

For example, bee stings are something every GX needs to make EDP's. So people have buy shops for them. They are easy to get from hornets and shouldnt take long to gather 100's of them.

I wish Gravity would make a market database like Ragial.com.
They'd probably set it up a little better and they could put it on the website.
It would be more useful and reliable as well, I'm sure.

[CheddarJack]

I wish Gravity would make a market database like Ragial.com.
They'd probably set it up a little better and they could put it on the website.
It would be more useful and reliable as well, I'm sure.

We could always tell new players about this created websites. So have an npc that tells them about ragial and irowiki and what not

[Andini]

i will give any new player on valk whites/wings to lvl, pm me ign

Edited by Andini, 01 November 2011 - 09:25 AM.

[Codface]

Slap down the price of whites and bring in a black pot or something that is 1.5x better than a white and requires 1 of ea of the other pots to make.

On a side note they need to remove Ygg seeds, green ales and berrys from the game. Those things are so lame in woe its untrue.

[asayuu]

Mastelas are epicly better than whites. [mainly talking about weight]

But few people know where they sell and less people will to spend that much on them.

[TheUraharaShop]

So why done we address this from not for your own personal view, which for most is the late game stages, but for Early, Middle and Late.

Early:

Spoiler

For most players who do start, they want to feel connected with the game. Being able to gain items for simple participation is always a plus. The abuse has always been an issue, which can be addressed by simple changes to the NPC that passes them out. Place a time out on that NPC so that the Account ID can only Receive Novice potions once every 72 Hours.

The 72 hour Mark can help prevent abuse for many future implementations.

Middle:

Spoiler

This is always the tricky part; trying to balance and transition between the poor, good, great and excellent recovery items. This is where the discussions should take place since this is where more often then not players will leave the game, based on a multitude of factors. Once of which is the cost of leveling.

Late:

Spoiler

This is the most interesting. If we want a Zeny Sink, set up WoE to restrict the use of certain recovery items and sell the rest from the NPC's. A bit rash, so cycling between what can be used during a cycle and changing often based on castles, realms or WoE type can make it less of a "chain saw" and more of a scapulae (yeah didn't forget). But WoE ends up being the main thrust of the economy, if we want to make a sink hole, this would be a good idea.

Over all, the items dropped or picked up server no other purpose then to be a trophy. Until recently most MVP drops were worthless, thanks to the MVP summoner, they've gotten a second life. We just need to really focus on how they can be used rather then them just collecting dust are being apart of the abuse.

[FiskBlack]

GM's never update anything in quests, and if they do is just fail..
It's like they actually dont know anything about game mechanics

[TheUraharaShop]

GM's never update anything in quests, and if they do is just fail..
It's like they actually dont know anything about game mechanics

I'm going to go with:
You dont remember when people said "ZOMG THEY ABUSING OCA REWARDS GMS"
And someone waved their magical hands and made a counter to lock out on one of the NPC's to reduce and track abusers.
AND part of the fan base...complained... about that...

That's pretty much the reason why they're a bit "slow" to act in most instances.