489 replies to this topic

[Okii]

Everything were fine when we all were like level 120 or less, when people started reaching 150 then everything was not right.



Firstly, green ales don't inflate the economy, since they don't introduce new zeny to the market. Yus, everyone might be affected by it. But for some, being affected means losing nil, while for others being affected means losing fortunes. I don't feel that the miss-informed answer of a supposed players representative being kinda 'lol, deal with it' is nice at all =p.

For some, like you, the loss is really tiny. Obviously you don't feel a big loss. It's like, if lots of people lose their house due to an earthquake and you lost a tiny hotdog stand, and tell everyone around 'lol, stop crying, we are all affected'.

Comparing green ales to a devastating earthquake?
Are you kidding me?

You guys take this so seriously, like... I mean it's okay to be pissed off but come on.
If it's not something about xp, some gears, some OP class, some something... you guys find something to complain about no matter what the circumstances are and then you make it seem almost life threateningly important. It's not that important!
More important thing would be to work with NPC and player made pots as well as the healing skills of priests, and making them more effective. Green ales were an event thing gone wrong and people abused it to the max.
Most people botting these ales are in fact major guild leaders or part of a major guild.
Who else would want to farm ales? Trading botted ales would have to be the dumbest thing you could do, because they are easily traced. Guild leaders/members bot ales and then store them away for personal use, that way they cannot be traced back by transactions.

Edited by Okii, 06 November 2011 - 12:44 PM.

[Kadnya]

Comparing green ales to a devastating earthquake?
Are you kidding me?

Nupe, I'm comparing having lots of wealth one day versus having few or nuffing the next day. In the example, the earthquake would be the GM decision... and my complain is mainly about some people seeing only the tip of the iceberg and feeling they see the whole... like people thinking the ones who have several ales MUST have botted them.

Or talking with made up arguments. Like this:

Most people botting these ales are in fact major guild leaders or part of a major guild.

There are all kind of people who are affected by this ale problem. From the ones who farmed their items during the event, to the ones who bought the hats from kafrashop and used certs or enriched ores, maybe some people selling WPE to buy green ales, then others spending their little fortunes to supply their guilds, and so on. Yus, there might be some bots affected, but you can't ignore the feelings of all the other kinds of people.

There isn't an easy solution, but whatever the solution is, it should ideally address the excess of green ales, the recovery in woe without ales, and a small compensation for the hat owners if the hat will stop working.

Edited by Kadnya, 06 November 2011 - 01:04 PM.

[AluraCeleste]

Where exactly are these maps infested with bots in St Patrick's Hats?

For the most part I've only noticed them in the payon field maps, payon cave and the map south of aldebaran. I am sure they are in other places though.

I just wanna jump in again about why I think the hat AND spare cards should be account bound. Some people have mentioned in the thread that it won't do anything to impact the botters even if they become account bound. But I believe they will be a nice kick in the crotch to them once these bot accounts are discovered and perm banned. At the moment it would not be too uncommon for someone to run a bot account for a few hours using the hat and spare card. Then when their done to trade these item bonus gathering items to a legit account/non-bot account. After all I am sure they have to transfer the loot to an account they vend on anyway. Disabling trades of such gears locks them to one account. Eventually as accounts are removed...so will the items locked on that account. Does this take these items out of the game as they get banned out? Yes. But it's not like the bots were gonna market them back to legit characters anyway. They were already items lost to legit players once they ended up on a bot account.

[lainee]

You guys take this so seriously, like... I mean it's okay to be pissed off but come on.
If it's not something about xp, some gears, some OP class, some something...

If a player put in the time to legitimately harvest ales in the Saint Pats event, or did the hat quest multiple times on all their characters (I did it over 20 times on multiple accounts) to 'sell' they have every right to be pissed off. Case in point, my friend and I both created male accounts (seeing as can't make bards on our main female accounts) - paid for the those accounts as we are on Ymir, created new characters to make bards and then had to level them. We farmed the ales at Hugel for the duration of the event and probably got about 20k ales between the two of us. Slowly we have been selling them off, though were originally waiting for the Ale supply to begin to dwindle to maximize profits. I'm really not sure why if people are botting them on mass on Valk, that it's Ymir's problem?

Most people botting these ales are in fact major guild leaders or part of a major guild.

Really? Tell me the guild leaders and guilds on Ymir botting Ales? There was some MVP mob farming going on, but the ales created that way are a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of Ales created in the Saint Pats event.

Edited by lainee, 06 November 2011 - 01:11 PM.

[Mhikeey]

Comparing green ales to a devastating earthquake?
Are you kidding me?

You guys take this so seriously, like... I mean it's okay to be pissed off but come on.
If it's not something about xp, some gears, some OP class, some something... you guys find something to complain about no matter what the circumstances are and then you make it seem almost life threateningly important. It's not that important!
More important thing would be to work with NPC and player made pots as well as the healing skills of priests, and making them more effective. Green ales were an event thing gone wrong and people abused it to the max.
Most people botting these ales are in fact major guild leaders or part of a major guild.
Who else would want to farm ales? Trading botted ales would have to be the dumbest thing you could do, because they are easily traced. Guild leaders/members bot ales and then store them away for personal use, that way they cannot be traced back by transactions.

Kad was merely trying to explain how very little you're affected by this and how incredibly it affects the larger RO community.

Wow, your reasoning is just .

You know what, the people, especially the guild leaders/veteran players who have posted in this thread have played this game for years unlike you. Their efforts have been significant in maintaining the current playerbase and building up newer ones mainly for WoE purposes which is one of very few RO end game content. Their opinions are highly valuable.

Heck, even the newer players who farmed some ales during the March event (like the post above this) are greatly affected. I'm sure the GMs consider those people as valuable too. Just because you weren't there for the March event or wasn't able to utilize it properly doesn't mean you can disregard people who spend time and effort in this game.

RO needs a LOT of tweaking and only recently has Gravity been actually been able to implement those without waiting 3 years. The GMs have said many times in the past that they would rather people VOICE OUT THEIR CONCERNS RATHER THAN LEAVE THE GAME WITHOUT A WORD. Losing customers means losing business. GMs know that and are willing to listen to their playerbase. Their efforts are very much appreciated. If YOU don't like reading people's opinions THEN GET OUT OF THIS THREAD. If you are only affected by your 35m st patty hat why even bother.

Edited by Mhikeey, 06 November 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[lainee]

Heck, even the newer players who farmed some ales during the March event (like the post above this) are greatly affected.

lol. well not quite.


Turning 99 on oRO Chaos(Official Oceania server) early 2005 - first 99 dancer on the server

Played on iRO circa 2003 the year before oRO opened in 2004. Accounts were thankfully transferred to iRO when oRO died (2007?)

But your point still stands. those with ales legitimately are getting well and truly screwed over at the moment.

Edited by lainee, 06 November 2011 - 03:00 PM.

[Xellie]

Really? Tell me the guild leaders and guilds on Ymir botting Ales? There was some MVP mob farming going on, but the ales created that way are a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of Ales created in the Saint Pats event.

This isn't the place to name and shame them.
And believe me I would love to - I'm sure nobody would enjoy it more than I would.

But they created an extremely significant number of ales.
24/7 mvp bot farming is apparently quite lucrative.

[lainee]

This isn't the place to name and shame them.
And believe me I would love to - I'm sure nobody would enjoy it more than I would.

I've seen the screen shots. lol

But they created an extremely significant number of ales.
24/7 mvp bot farming is apparently quite lucrative.

I'm not denying that it is a significant amount, but it is still dwarfed by the sheer amount of ales that were farmed in the event and are still on the server. Making the ales account bound, and deleting ales from carts (on Ymir) is completely ridiculous when most of those ales are legitimate.

[Xellie]

I've seen the screen shots. lol



I'm not denying that it is a significant amount, but it is still dwarfed by the sheer amount of ales that were farmed in the event and are still on the server. Making the ales account bound, and deleting ales from carts (on Ymir) is completely ridiculous when most of those ales are legitimate.

You haven't seen my screenshots/fraps. I didn't release them to anybody except the GMs. =P

[lainee]

You haven't seen my screenshots/fraps. I didn't release them to anybody except the GMs. =P

Well I did see the drac screen shots on the supposedly inaccessible maps. lol. If you have more that's great. The GM's can still though look at the creation date of items in the db - why then delete those ales that were harvested in the event via the gold and silver coins?

[gravitysucks]

You haven't seen my screenshots/fraps. I didn't release them to anybody except the GMs. =P

This is just for Ymir, no? Valk players are not so abusive/sophisticated depending on how you look at it.

Okii, I have 120k legitimate ales stored up. I have every right to be angry.

Edited by Inubashiri, 06 November 2011 - 10:53 PM.
be nice

[Xellie]

Well I did see the drac screen shots on the supposedly inaccessible maps. lol. If you have more that's great. The GM's can still though look at the creation date of items in the db - why then delete those ales that were harvested in the event via the gold and silver coins?

Well, they can't track the ales if they're consumed so fast, so I'd imagine most of the problem is WoE consumption.

This is just for Ymir, no? Valk players are not so abusive/sophisticated depending on how you look at it.

Okii, I have 120k legitimate ales stored up. I have every right to be angry.

meh, the same players do it on valk / inspired Ymir to do it.

Edited by Inubashiri, 06 November 2011 - 10:53 PM.
quote edit

[lainee]

Well, they can't track the ales if they're consumed so fast, so I'd imagine most of the problem is WoE consumption.

But they can track the old ales that were created in the event. So why not leave those ones untouched and if people have them in their carts and let them be sold.

Edited by lainee, 06 November 2011 - 05:15 PM.

[Hinkypunk]

Well, they can't track the ales if they're consumed so fast, so I'd imagine most of the problem is WoE consumption.

Aside from the "they had cake, but they eated it already" argument for tracking ales that were gained through exploitation, I'd still like to see a breakdown of the percentage of green ales obtained during the March Event compared to the percentage obtained after the event through, let's say two weeks ago. Per server.

Without knowing the particulars of how the RO database works, I do know that it must be stateful--which means items and events have to carry time-stamps.

[Xellie]

Aside from the "they had cake, but they eated it already" argument for tracking ales that were gained through exploitation, I'd still like to see a breakdown of the percentage of green ales obtained during the March Event compared to the percentage obtained after the event through, let's say two weeks ago. Per server.

Without knowing the particulars of how the RO database works, I do know that it must be stateful--which means items and events have to carry time-stamps.

I think that once an entry is deleted from the database, there's no timestamp to check it against. And if I understand correctly, only certain items are logged for when created / destroyed. To record every single item created in RO would be an obscene amount of data.

[Hinkypunk]

I think that once an entry is deleted from the database, there's no timestamp to check it against. And if I understand correctly, only certain items are logged for when created / destroyed. To record every single item created in RO would be an obscene amount of data.

That is how stateful systems work. Most everything is saved at the cost of high data storage.

I doubt something simply ceases to exist in the RO database once it's deleted/consumed...otherwise how would the GMs be able to restore deleted accounts or items that were dropped, etc.? I'm pretty sure the iRO team keeps many back-ups, too.

[Xellie]

In most companies cases, yes.
cheapshot at Gravity.

they ask for screenshots often when doing restores. Why is that necessary? Remember the OCA NPC debacle? I lost tonnes of legit OCAs, people kept illegit cards.

Obviously it's just not that simple.

[Okii]

This is just for Ymir, no? Valk players are not so abusive/sophisticated depending on how you look at it.

Okii, I have 120k legitimate ales stored up. I have every right to be angry.

I have a 133 RG anddd thanks.
I don't represent anyone... lol.

People be trippin.

Kad was merely trying to explain how very little you're affected by this and how incredibly it affects the larger RO community.

RO needs a LOT of tweaking and only recently has Gravity been actually been able to implement those without waiting 3 years. The GMs have said many times in the past that they would rather people VOICE OUT THEIR CONCERNS RATHER THAN LEAVE THE GAME WITHOUT A WORD. Losing customers means losing business. GMs know that and are willing to listen to their playerbase. Their efforts are very much appreciated. If YOU don't like reading people's opinions THEN GET OUT OF THIS THREAD. If you are only affected by your 35m st patty hat why even bother.

I know there are legit ales out there. Lots of them. I said that the ale issue wasn't touched early enough and now it's kinda too late to separate the legit from botted. And yeah, Heim asked for your opinions so you post them AND I'm posting mine.

Edited by Inubashiri, 06 November 2011 - 10:54 PM.
quote edit

[Kadnya]

I kinda would like to hear Heim opinion by now. Is anything posted here being considered?

[Dl2agon]

I kinda would like to hear Heim opinion by now. Is anything posted here being considered?

agree

What if ales were not account bound, but made to where you cant use them in woe or they heal less when inside a castle, they all ready do it to skills and other items so why cant they do that too ales?

instead of trying to get rid of ales or replace with a new item, why not make ales heal less everywhere? like 10%?

[Mefistofeles]

agree

What if ales were not account bound, but made to where you cant use them in woe or they heal less when inside a castle, they all ready do it to skills and other items so why cant they do that too ales?

instead of trying to get rid of ales or replace with a new item, why not make ales heal less everywhere? like 10%?

or just heal the hp

[Hrothmund]

If neither side has ales, is dying in woe that bad? I understand some key players (sac RG's etc) wont be able to stay in the defensive line the entire woe so it would weaken defense somewhat since its more difficult for them to pop out and use storage compared to the cannon fodder breaking on the precasts, but is that really such a bad thing?

Could always keep them at 3 weight/tradable, but change ales to only restore 10% hp/sp. I think that'd still be an awesome consuamble although I could imagine how upset current holders would be, that would be a really nice game balance. Better still buff slim whites/potted blues to do something similar.

Edited by Hrothmund, 07 November 2011 - 01:23 AM.

[Gangstaz]

Wow.. 19 pages and its still going. You guys take this ale thing really seriously huh?

[Daray]

You guys take this ale thing really seriously huh?

Wouldn't you?
I don't mind "wasting my life" on a game like Ragnarok Online as long as there is some kind of progress for my character.

People, me included, spent lots of time and money into those ales. Saying everyone that owns ales in a large quantity is a botter is absurd.
I guess you guys just don't think ahead.

Back when ales were cheap (20k/ea during the event) on Valkyrie Server and everyone figured they'd be around forever, some of us were investing as much as we could into buying them to use at a later point. When you see something that could make your future better, you don't sit around and let it pass you, you jump that ball.



If anything, it's too late to react to it in the way that it's being handled... 8 months... really?
If they deemed the ales obtained during the event a problem, they knew that a week after the event.
There was event a XP event linked to the amount of obtained ales for bloody sake... you can't come 8months in and act all "too many are in the game sorry we have to do something".


If it's only the ones for the hats, they could leave the normal ales alone and just figure something out for the hat owners.
(example: turn the effect off, hats Bind on Account but allow all hats to be traded in via a NPC for a KP item or for WPE/KP)


Maybe I'm paranoid, but I think "Purple Potion WoE boxes" will be entering the kafra shop in a couple of weeks.(around 14.1 launch)

[Kuwano]

Personally don't have any Ales and don't want any. I'm not really into WoE, but even otherwise I wouldn't want any, as long as others not using it a lot.
I find it a mistake to keep the St. Patrick Hat's bonus after event to begin with. This Ales with it's weight doesn't seem like something that was supposed to become main WoE/PvP items for all times. But since it was done the way it's done, it isn't very nice to turn the hat into a useless junk all of a sudden now. At least it must have some other satisfying bonus on +7, but Ale that is already in game should retain it's qualities.
When a method that is used to fight with bots are hurting legit players more than it hurts bots themselves, such method should be dumped. It's, of course, if bots are indeed the reason for doing these changes. Personally, I think that bots won't give a crab about this, they will just switch to another tasks while amount of bots will remain the same.

Edited by Kuwano, 07 November 2011 - 09:42 AM.