Zulie Seller Fix [revised and clearer] - Proposals & Suggestions - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Zulie Seller Fix [revised and clearer]


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:52 PM

The best long term fix to the Zulie Selling Issue.

It's a 2 part fix.

- Remove the shout and trade chat functions while vending.
. -- You can still whisper, regular chat, and use the community chat rooms / private chat.

- Add an AFK timer that requires a quick user input once an hour, such as pressing a green button from a group of red / yellow / green.
. -- After answering the question you're healed full HP, and MP.
. -- AFK timer does not affect vending

Hope this idea helps our Dev team come up with a good idea, I'd been pondering if it was a good enough suggestion.

Edited by Feuer, 13 November 2011 - 07:28 PM.

  • -4

#2 Niluje

Niluje

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 746 posts
  • LocationFrance
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:51 PM

How to circumvent this:

Every 29 minutes, make the character sit down and get up / use an emote / move with the Up key, tada the ZS is not AFK anymore.


And I like to chat while vending.
  • 0

#3 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:10 PM

The AFK timer doesn't rely of people using actions, Its a countdown timer, that shows up each 30-60 minutes regardless of play [would also not appear in WAR scenarios, and an correct answer would recover the users HP and MP] So even if you move each 30 minutes you still have to answer the question.
  • 1

#4 FeedisArti

FeedisArti

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 678 posts
  • LocationLeeuwarden
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 08 November 2011 - 02:20 PM

I don't like that personally. We can just use the /ignore function now so.. I think it's a bit too far fetchd
  • 1

#5 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:12 AM

yeah sure you can just ignore them, doesn't mean they can still advertise in-game and sell more zulie crashing the economy worse, but sure, just ignore that problem :)
  • 1

#6 Revolve

Revolve

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1044 posts
  • LocationKaizy's Profile.
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:16 AM

Or lets say you only can enter junon when your lvl 30? :)
  • 0

#7 Rukario

Rukario

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 797 posts
  • LocationJohnston City, IL
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:06 AM

Or lets say you only can enter junon when your lvl 30? :)


They will simply spam everywhere else, such as the training grounds. And they'll use bots to level and then go to Junon.

Captcha is honestly too far out there. I can see it working for logging in, but as for during gameplay, it would just be an issue.
  • 0

#8 DigitalKitten

DigitalKitten

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4996 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis, Draconis

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:16 AM

Don't like the idea at all.

One thing could be done though, Putting up some kind of thing that doesn't let them write in trade while vending, that would stop zulie spammers alot since they usualy vend to not get a cart request while botting so people take them to DoD and kill them.
Therefore the spamming is in DoD instead of junon, but DoD is usualy dead anyway.

So I wouldn't mind the block in trade while vending, but the other ideas is one step to far.
Dcing ppl isn't really a good feature for the game lol.

Edited by DigitalKitten, 09 November 2011 - 10:18 AM.

  • 0

#9 Niluje

Niluje

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 746 posts
  • LocationFrance
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:51 AM

yeah sure you can just ignore them, doesn't mean they can still advertise in-game and sell more zulie crashing the economy worse, but sure, just ignore that problem :)


Who would like to be bothered by some annoying pop-up every 30-60 minutes? Certainly not me
  • 0

#10 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:38 PM

Ok then block the trade chat and let them spam in vendors with shouts and regular chats? or make a bot that opens/closes vendor with an auto clicker. Theres a bot to automate everything in game people, thats how they get away with it. However no bot in the world can answer a question from a bank of 5 question correctly. lets say the questions are '2-2', '2+2', '2x2', '1+1', and '1+2', would really be so irritating to hit a single digit number once an hour? But thats fine, we can search for a more complicated answer that will take another 8 months to permanently remove botting, Zulie seller spamming, and chat botting, its all good, not like they're messing up the market or making a ton of high lvl toons while they sleep and then messing up PVP or anything like that.
  • 1

#11 Zayin

Zayin

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 605 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:29 PM

I think it would be highly annoying to answer questions every now and then. It's also a not very elegant solution.

I'm still wondering why the staff is not able to apply smart filtering to the chat windows. They could implement a mechanism that:

1) Collects only alphanumeric characters and dollar/yen/euro/etc signs, and flush everything else including spaces.
2) Checks for a sequence of keywords. Roughly speaking, if the message contains the sequence of chars of sell ('s' 'e' 'l' 'l'), zully (zuly, zullie, etc) and dollar (USD, $, etc), then the player is considered a zuly seller by the system. Edit: It could also wait for 3 messages as a safety procedure.
3) Collects the player's last messages and store it.
4) Automatically teleports the player to a blank map.
5) Staff members investigate the messages collected in 3) to confirm the player is really a zuly seller (to prevent issues due to bugs).

The rest is up to them.

The filter would obviously need to be better than that, but it could be indefinitely refined as players find leaks.
Is my idea that much of an utopia?

Edited by Zayin, 09 November 2011 - 07:37 PM.

  • 0

#12 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:06 PM

Not really Zayin, even if a conversation occurred containing those strings of characters doesn't mean they're a seller. they might be talking about the sellers or the prices a seller is advertising. Honestly the only thing that can kick a bot, is to get a character to respond to something. If it was just an afk timer, all the bot would need to do is click once in an hour to avoid that.

Perhaps just a quick '?' mark that you click to reset the timer at your own pace. But 5 mins after exceeding that timer being at 0:00 is Dc's. Chat would be blocked while vending. Thats the only other alternative. Is a player controlled timer...even though that can still be cheated by a bot but whatever. A chat filtration system picking up key identifiers and string to build a sentence, then execute a command on completion and report the coversation of text packets already expired/deleted/unavailable, store them in the server, and wait for a GM who will get 100's of them a day to unblock your character sounds like a much more easy and quick system to set up....

I know it sounds like im being sarcastic [sometimes i am], but this is the quickest, easiest, and most sure fire thing that will stop them completely. Dragonica uses it and you won't hardly find a single AFK person who's been there for more then 2 hours. Sure It's an inconvenience to have to answer a single digit question 1 time in an hour, but which is the bigger inconvenience. Answering a simple question, or zuly sellers/botters completely defecating and effing up the entire game for everyone. I'll go for the mild inconvenience...

Edited by Feuer, 09 November 2011 - 08:09 PM.

  • 1

#13 Zayin

Zayin

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 605 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:42 PM

Not really Zayin, even if a conversation occurred containing those strings of characters doesn't mean they're a seller. they might be talking about the sellers or the prices a seller is advertising. Honestly the only thing that can kick a bot, is to get a character to respond to something. If it was just an afk timer, all the bot would need to do is click once in an hour to avoid that.


There are plenty of possible solutions.

If the system were waiting for, let's say 3 of these messages in a 30 minutes interval (meaning the sellers could only type 3messages/30mins), I doubt normal players would get detected. And even then, the character in question would simply be teleported to the blank field and a staff member would notice he/she wasn't a zuly seller (after a few hours). The players could even be able to use scrolls to go back to Junon, but I think that wouldn't work since botters could automatically use a Junon scroll (they would need a lot of them though!!!).

Another solution that I don't like as much is to apply the filters to the trade and shout windows only. The likelihood of teleporting regular players would be reduced by far. Who really copies zully seller messages in the trade/shout windows anyway? I must say I've never seen anyone.

My favourite solution is to warn the player after 1 "forbidden" message. The player could be warned that typing two more messages containing those strings would label him/her as a zuly seller by the system.
  • 0

#14 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:27 PM

The implementation of that is too complicated is what i'm saying, itd be a server script scanning ALL the text packets for those, the method i suggested is held in the client.
  • 1

#15 Niluje

Niluje

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 746 posts
  • LocationFrance
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:44 AM

Yeah, but the method you suggested is incredibly annoying for anyone hunting monsters


Imagine IRL every hour the phone rings and someome asks you how much is 1+1. After 3 hours anyone would just answer "go to hell!!!" and unplug the phone
  • 0

#16 Zayin

Zayin

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 605 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:18 PM

The implementation of that is too complicated is what i'm saying, itd be a server script scanning ALL the text packets for those, the method i suggested is held in the client.

The implementation is up to the devs. I think my filter could be held in the client. Then, when it detects a seller, the rest would be passed on to the server. However, I'm not experienced playing with Rose files so I wouldn't know. Maybe making it client wise would permit the sellers to bypass it? No idea.

I think my idea could be simplified further. Instead of teleporting the players to a blank map, they could be muted after the 3 message limit has been reached. They would lose access to the chat box, the pms, the chat rooms and vending. In the case that was a mistake, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Just wait until a staff member unlocks you. I honestly don't think it's hard to implement.
  • 0

#17 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:23 PM

If that filter gets implemented, I'll stop designing for ROSE and lose all hope. This suggestion is obviously failing because too many people like to use their AFK bots, and are going to complain the whole time, I'll leave this thread to the GM's and Developers but I'm not commenting on it anymore.
  • -1

#18 Zayin

Zayin

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 605 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:50 PM

If that filter gets implemented, I'll stop designing for ROSE and lose all hope. This suggestion is obviously failing because too many people like to use their AFK bots, and are going to complain the whole time, I'll leave this thread to the GM's and Developers but I'm not commenting on it anymore.

I don't see what the problem is. What do you mean? My filter is just annoying to zuly sellers and someone who would like to talk about zuly sellers more than 2 times in the chat window. Players would receive a warning message on top of that. Who would be stupid enough to keep going?

Edited by Zayin, 10 November 2011 - 02:52 PM.

  • 0

#19 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 10 November 2011 - 06:13 PM

Think of the following phrase, "I have 5$ in item mall, I'll sell for "xxx" zuly". That phrase contains all 3 of your filtered words. Or if someone said "S> "xxx" item for "xxx" zuly or equal $ trade." It still contains those 3 words, not only would your filter falsely punish innocent people, It would also inhibit trading for regular users and put a strain on the player based market.
  • 1

#20 Zayin

Zayin

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 605 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:00 PM

Think of the following phrase, "I have 5$ in item mall, I'll sell for "xxx" zuly". That phrase contains all 3 of your filtered words. Or if someone said "S> "xxx" item for "xxx" zuly or equal $ trade." It still contains those 3 words, not only would your filter falsely punish innocent people, It would also inhibit trading for regular users and put a strain on the player based market.

As I said above, my filter words were just an example (maybe I wasn't clear enough on that). There would obviously be a need for a URL keyword since that's how most zully sellers proceed. However, I must say I've only seen one player so far saying he'd buy IM money with zuly, but his message didn't contain all 3 keywords (it was something like buying IM money). I'm sure there's a way around this :). It just depends how much time the staff would like to spend on designing a smart algorithm. Anyway, the solution is not in our hands, I think we both made our points :).
  • 0

#21 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:29 PM

With the exception I was defamed [i don't think by you] multiple times for trying to help.. my thought that most people won't support this because it also removes the AFK bot's which soo many people rely on to level and play. But I hope the GM's see through that and block all bots regardless.
  • 0

#22 Niluje

Niluje

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 746 posts
  • LocationFrance
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:56 AM

This suggestion is obviously failing because too many people like to use their AFK bots, and are going to complain the whole time

Myeah, cause disabling chat while vending is clearly not going to make them complain! o.O lol
  • 1

#23 Rukario

Rukario

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 797 posts
  • LocationJohnston City, IL
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:31 PM

I think no matter how many times this topic is brushed up on, nothing is going to change until the Developers decide to work towards a fix. But I don't see that coming very soon, regardless of suggestions.
  • 0

#24 AlisiaMT

AlisiaMT

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1149 posts
  • LocationUnited States
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:34 PM

Honestly, I'd be okay with it if
A ) I didn't like to chat with people while vending. and
B ) I didn't go afk while vending (I would hate to set up shop and go watch a movie only to come back and find I had been dc'd cuz I didn't answer a question in time).

What they need to do is talk to my dad. He is CM for an airplane game and loves it when people get around bans so he can patch up a newly discovered hole lol. (I love my dad. he's funny xD)
  • 0

#25 Rukario

Rukario

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 797 posts
  • LocationJohnston City, IL
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:39 PM

Honestly, I'd be okay with it if
A ) I didn't like to chat with people while vending. and
B ) I didn't go afk while vending (I would hate to set up shop and go watch a movie only to come back and find I had been dc'd cuz I didn't answer a question in time).

What they need to do is talk to my dad. He is CM for an airplane game and loves it when people get around bans so he can patch up a newly discovered hole lol. (I love my dad. he's funny xD)

Your dad sounds like me. Except I'm not old enough to be your father. XD
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users