32 replies to this topic

[Rawrr]

So Cal and Zep wanted us to give some feedback and suggestions; so here it is all in a nutshell.

All Suggestions Mentioned in Patch.v300 Notes:
1. Reduce champ's mspd, and some of their skills (?)
2. Reduce raiders' dodge
3. Give mspd passives to mages, clerics, and/or bourgs
4. Fix bourg's third eye
5. Give clerics additional slots in skillbar


Did I miss anything??
And personally, no I'm not too keen on any further nerfing of raiders.

[Aldrine]

Rawrzy meanie meanie meanie!!!

Edited by Aldrine, 03 September 2010 - 10:40 PM.

[BrownBear]

1. We all know this has been discussed a ton and they should look into it.
2. Their dodge is fine.
3. Clerics maybe, the others are fine if you ask me.
4. Yes.
5. Might as well give everyone additional slots....

Edited by BrownBear, 02 September 2010 - 05:44 PM.

[Phish]

1. We all know this has been discussed a ton and they should look into it.
2. Their dodge is fine.
3. Clerics maybe, the others are fine if you ask me.
4. Yes.
5. Might as well give everyone additional slots....

Agree with all.


Bourgs have some mspeed passives if they take the subitem research skill and salesmans gait it is 80 extra mspeed. Their mspeed is fine to be honest.

[Calanor]

Rawrr,

Thank you for taking it seriously and for those that have posted thus far thank you for giving us honest feedback. I want to ask that with anything, the more details you are towards why you think a change should take place the better we understand it.

Ex: 'Champs are OP' - vague and it makes us run around in circles trying different things to try and localize what it is that you see that we don't.

[Rawrr]

Rawrr,

Thank you for taking it seriously and for those that have posted thus far thank you for giving us honest feedback. I want to ask that with anything, the more details you are towards why you think a change should take place the better we understand it.

Ex: 'Champs are OP' - vague and it makes us run around in circles trying different things to try and localize what it is that you see that we don't.

Thanks for actually taking our feedback seriously Cal.
Well I'll elaborate a little more on the points and try my best to make them nice and short, since there's just so many different opinions from the community..

So for one - the champs.
I think we can all come to the conclusion that they are just way to fast (in mspd) and that their mspd passive should either be reduced or taken away (not quite sure what the majority of the community wants for this one). There's also been complaints about their high defense, their mute, and the amount of stuns and aoes they have.
I'm not saying you should nerf every single thing listed in this paragraph, but if you are really trying to balance all the classes, at least one or two things listed should be nerfed; and personally, I would prefer the mspd and stun (or) aoe to be balanced.

Secondly, there was an argument by a few people in the patch notes saying how raiders dodge is too high, and they were suggesting to lower raider's dodge. Personally I think you should just ignore their suggestion because tbh, they just want to be the 'best' in rose, are simply upset that they can't kill a couple of raiders

Thirdly - mspd for clerics and or mages and or bourgs.
This would be nice for clerics and mages because if you look around, majority of muses run like turtles and if they were running with their party in union war, their party members would be killed before the cleric can heal them or the mage can back them up...
However, a possible problem with this might be there aren't enough skill points left for the clerics or mages to get this mspd passive.
As for bourgs having mspd passives...I'm not sure but there were a few people who were saying that the 40mspd-increase passive really doesn't do much.

Bourg's third eye - obviously it's still bugged and it needs to be fixed!

And lastly - additional slots for clerics in skillbar.
No doubt yes it's a problem.
However, imo if you really added more slots for cleric class only, it would be unfair for the others - it's simply a similar case to the problem with scouts / bourgs / offensive artisans who have to carry bullets and arrows and shells with them in the consumable tab.

[Blitzkrieg]

+1 to #1,2,5

-1 to #3,4

[Phish]

Blitzkreig play as a bourg before you -1 the third eye suggestion.

[Irtofu]

what they need to fix is burn/poison effect its too overpowered now, it cuts right through everything maybe lowering the damage/sec and increasing the cooldown time of the burn/poison skills

[Blitzkrieg]

+1 to #1,2,5

-1 to #3,4

sry i did -1 to wrong topic by mistake i actually m in full support of bourg third eye suggestion
i have a bourg ( m bro actually but i see him play regularly)

edit on my suggetion
-1 to 2 and 3
and +1 to the rest

[ChickenBucket]

You guys need to be more specific when your suggesting stuff for champs because they are too generic and the team always ends up messing up knight too

[Xros]

All Suggestions Mentioned in Patch.v300 Notes:
1. Reduce champ's mspd, and some of their skills (?)
2. Reduce raiders' dodge
3. Give mspd passives to mages, clerics, and/or bourgs
4. Fix bourg's third eye
5. Give clerics additional slots in skillbar

1. +1 if its gonna be the SPEAR champs passives and change to aspd or whatever.. SPEAR Champs are the mspd champs.. I really don't know y ppl kept saying "Champs are too fast!" from a lot of threads.. bcoz i know for myself it is Spear Champ's mspd that annoys everyone in UW and they're the one who catches raiders and escapes combat like the wind .. .. because there are ppl out there who plays Axe Champs and Sword Champs whom doesn't have the same MSPD as SPEAR champs.


2. +1, OR just increase accu of weapons and passives (not much though) and also check accu vs dodge ratio system..


3. i'm not sure about this but i think this should be the ranking of classes mspd based on their mspd passives. (w/o IM passives, any mspd gears, no cleric buffs)
scout = any guy who has at least a good military knowledge would agree w/ it.
katar raider = the assassin should be next one, since SPEED (dodge, aspd, mspd combination) is their LIFE..
dual raider / gun bourgs
axe, sword, spear champs, xbow, mace, sword knights = ex. troy, 300, gladiator, lord of the rings
launcer bourgs = modern ex. a soldier carrying a mini gun w/ over 9000 bullets..
clerics / mages = gone through mental/spirtiual/magical training.. ex. dumbledore, gandalf, saruman, voldemort, harry potter
artisan = use cart

Additional: if your saying clerics and mages should be faster to soldier class jobs since they wear the heaviest armor, watch these films and you'll know since ancient times warriors were heavily trained physically and trained to run like they should be while wearing them (modern soldiers carying their stuffs) and priests, wizards had their mental/spirtiual/magical training, meditation, wisdom learning and etc.
Modern Example = 100 meter race of a professional American football player, a nerd/geek and a priest. lol

4. +1


5. +1, but other class too should have it.

[shibby]

the mspeed on champs is my favorite thing about mine, however they really shouldn't be faster than raiders. i would like it if it was reduced only for pvp and not pvm but if you alter the passives, just make small steps please, instead of turning them into turtles like knights

i also like Xros explanation of what classes should be fastest. kinda makes sense.

Edited by shibby, 03 September 2010 - 03:51 AM.

[Kaizy]

Cleric - Voltage jolt should have been left alone, it's a muse skill not a cleric skill anyway. Voltage storm should only be increased by 3-4 seconds not 6.

Mage - Soul shock and soul electric changes are fine. Mflow should still be 2 second duration because of animation and low success rate. Perma changing to aspd debuff is laughable. Should still be a sleep but with only a 3 second or so duration and cooldown of 15sec or so.

Raider - Triple slash change is fine, it was already useless anyway. Sucker punch change is fine but SP to learn it should be reduced. Every other class can learn a stun with 10-20 sp, raider needs around 40. Change it to requiring 30-35sp. Mystic knife change is fine but sleep should maybe be 3 secs only because of their burn/poison skills.

Burn/poison effects need to be balanced with a way to defend against them and not just hit through defense, dodge, and everything else.

Those are the classes I played and know about. Can't really comment on the others since I never really played them.

Debuffs for all classes are ridiculous. 100% debuffs? Even 50% debuffs are kind of silly. Just punishes people who achieve a high stat number since the debuff will take more from them. Someone should go through all the debuff skills and balance them out. Any debuff skill that does no damage should have higher % than one that does. Each class should only have 2 or 3 maybe. Not given the whole range to debuff everything. I know champ, raider, and mage are guilty of having one too many types of debuffs. Other classes probably not much different.

What I posted in the 300 notes thread before everyone went omg lets flame span.

[Graziano]

1. Big yes in mspeed
2. Why?
3. As sugeested by mom i believe, remove all mspeed passive on all jobs and give clothes(shoes) more added mspeed matching by their jobs.
4. Agreed
5. Indeed, might as well give it to everyone then:P

[Graziano]

Rawrr,

Thank you for taking it seriously and for those that have posted thus far thank you for giving us honest feedback. I want to ask that with anything, the more details you are towards why you think a change should take place the better we understand it.

Ex: 'Champs are OP' - vague and it makes us run around in circles trying different things to try and localize what it is that you see that we don't.

Try to take a look at pvping in larger numbers and not only 1 on 1
Join a few wars and play them actively, prefer to join the outnumbred side then.

[BrownBear]

Ex: 'Champs are OP' - vague and it makes us run around in circles trying different things to try and localize what it is that you see that we don't.

Is this and the patch notes the only threads you have read?...

I'll summarize anyways. 4 stuns was too much, 3 still is. Defensive capabilities are too comparable to a knights relative to their offensive power. They have the potential to be the fastest class. So when you look at the pros of a champ you see a list like this; High AP, lots of stuns, high def, high HP, high m spd. It seems like they can do everything.

Now we don't want you to nerf all of that, just some of it. The main things that I think should be addressed are the high defense and the high movement speed. Also, I think it would be more fair if they had 2 stuns instead of 3. Only mages should have over 2 stuns.

Also I can't help but think back to the days when Berserk reduced defense to greatly increase AP. It currently doesn't do that. Might be something worth looking into again.

Edited by BrownBear, 03 September 2010 - 04:21 AM.

[ChickenBucket]

Is this and the patch notes the only threads you have read?...

I'll summarize anyways. 4 stuns was too much, 3 still is. Defensive capabilities are too comparable to a knights relative to their offensive power. They have the potential to be the fastest class. So when you look at the pros of a champ you see a list like this; High AP, lots of stuns, high def, high HP, high m spd. It seems like they can do everything.

Now we don't want you to nerf all of that, just some of it. The main things that I think should be addressed are the high defense and the high movement speed. Also, I think it would be more fair if they had 2 stuns instead of 3. Only mages should have over 2 stuns.

Also I can't help but think back to the days when Berserk reduced defense to greatly increase AP. It currently doesn't do that. Might be something worth looking into again.

if they make berzerk give def down make the def down cant be purified

[BrownBear]

if they make berzerk give def down make the def down cant be purified

That would be nice. I don't know how they would go about doing that though.

[Badge]

All Suggestions Mentioned in Patch.v300 Notes:
(Agreed)1. Reduce champ's mspd, and some of their skills (?)
(Fix the ratio of Dodge vs Accuracy) 2. Reduce raiders' dodge
(Agreed). Give mspd passives to mages, clerics, and/or bourgs
(Agreed)4. Fix bourg's third eye
(no comment)5. Give clerics additional slots in skillbar

[Span]

1) Change the movement speed on spear passives and thats 40%
2) Unnecessary , we don't want raiders to die in 3 hits
3) Rawrzz ain't u running fast enough already , why speed ?
4) Has to be done
5) Give it to everyone

if they make berzerk give def down make the def down cant be purified

Champs doesn't have a purify , AP up DEF down ? Just like the old berserk .

Edited by Span, 03 September 2010 - 07:57 AM.

[Soda]

1) Change the movement speed on spear passives and thats 40%
2) Unnecessary , we don't want raiders to die in 3 hits
3) Rawrzz ain't u running fast enough already , why speed ?
4) Has to be done
5) Give it to everyone



Champs doesn't have a purify , AP up DEF down ? Just like the old berserk .

Kriz said IF the berserk is gonna be back to they way it was (the part where u get def down when you do it) then they should do something where u can't purify ( By that it means the cleric/ puri pot ) the def down

[ChickenBucket]

see span it is retarded he will be the only champ running in union war with def down if def down is added to the berzerk

[Span]

see span it is retarded he will be the only champ running in union war with def down if def down is added to the berzerk

Old berserk only last 60 seconds as much as i remember .

[jagz]

Alot of good input here. I'm one who thinks mspeed 40 is crappy passive for bourg's while other classes get a % passive which is significantly higher. Maybe we are suppose to be slow though, as we carry a heavy weapon. (But so do spear champs).

Not mentioned here, but in another P&S thread, A, Rename Item Mall section of the Storage to something else. It's quite confusing to many people. Daily someone shouts, The things I bought arent in my Item Mall tab!! And it's us, the community, not you guys, to tell them, its your milage storage!

B, Our IM Storage expansion coupons... (I can see where you got the name Item Mall for that tab though as you need IM to use it) Please give us another page than just the 1.

C, Or just give us a 5th regular storage page. Every week there are new items.. Every release of a new map, are 8-15 new materials or so.