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Upgrade Event, and future developments


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#101 mooMOOmoo

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:32 AM

Please check out my Spooky Machine upgrade log to have an idea what upgrading is like without the existance of HD ores. There are 2 sheets in the file: normal and enriched.

Edited by mooMOOmoo, 09 November 2011 - 08:33 AM.

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#102 DrMambo

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:33 AM

Compare:

90-60-60-30-30 with 60-40-40-20-20.... 30% better odds at +4-+5, 20% better odds at +5-+6 and +6-+7, and 10% better odds at +7-+8 and +8-+9... basically 1.5x better at every upgrade.

Yeah enriched are more expensive, but you'll have more shots at +10 more than ever because you're not gonna rebound back and forth a lot on the lower upgrades (rebounding at +4 and +5 over and over and burning 20 HDs right there is a frustrating sight)....


This.

If you say this event won't triple or even quadruple the amount of +10 items on this server simply because "the rate from +9=>+10 isn't any better" then you are a full blown retard. By more than doubling the chance for +9 items you are directly doubling the chance for +10s already by allowing more chances to +9=>+10 at the same cost. There is no need to make an item that would help from +9=>+10 in the future. At the very least getting to +10 should be a hassle and require some degree of difficulty, seeing as +9 and below will be a cake walk.
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#103 mooMOOmoo

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:10 PM

On premium servers (all iRO servers regardless of VIP status), Enriched ores multiply upgrade success chance by 1.5x as long as the equipment is currently at +8 or less.

On F2P servers (NOT iRO - such as pRO valkyrie/valhalla), enriched ores allow safe upgrade up to the "safe levels" on premium servers. Does not increase success chance on overupgrades.


Since all the rich players are crying about their equipments becoming worthless, maybe iRO Valkyrie and Valhalla needs to have the safe upgrade levels removed (as before the implementation of VIP system on formerly F2P-only servers - using F2P upgrade chances)?

With F2P success chances:
-upgrading HD ores can drop the level back to +0
-Tripled kafra points required in order to retain current HD upgrade chances

Edited by mooMOOmoo, 09 November 2011 - 12:15 PM.

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#104 meli

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:35 PM

Dunno, I see this as a chance for everyone to get equal on equipment upgrade, but in the long run it definitely devaluates the rarity of some items. I wouldn't implement this as a permanent feature but ocassional upgrade events I guess.
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#105 Ayleria

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:28 PM

I'm one of those people that's never bothered to upgrade past +4 without any real need to. I didn't want to spend all the money I heard was necessary to get to +9. I finally upgraded to +7 with the safe certificates I accumulated with the lucky boxes, and I was pretty satisfied with that. Too many horror stories of getting higher to try it.

But I did try this out, since it seemed well worth the investment. I didn't have to spend hundreds of dollars, so I'm very happy. I got my two main characters each their +9 weapons, and the Nid garb I had is now +9, too. I was very pleased to spend only between 12-30 ores for each thing. It would have been even less than that, but the silly Nid garb misbehaved. But oh well, like I said, it was well worth it. :)

So thank you for this, I may end up trying to +9 more equipment in the future, and I would not have done it without the increased rates. And no, I don't WoE, so I'm not doing it to slaughter anyone. I just want to enjoy my leveling and exploring, and this hopefully will help me do so.
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#106 huad

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:38 PM

This game keeps getting easier and easier.
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#107 blongx

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:40 PM

"I don't understand how these NOOBS don't get it.

Gear HAS to break in order to keep MVP drops valuable.

How else will zeny circulate around the community without it all being a matter of kafra drops?

PLAYING becomes irrelevant

You could just be buying characters and items."



Sorry but your the one that doesnt get it and are purely looking out for your own interests on this matter. RO is the most top heavy game I've played for wealth distribution. n00bs need to be able to realistically afford to buy Diab robes, boots and stuff in order to keep them happy. If you make everything break it makes the campers incredibly rich and wearing +7 while the rest of the server walks round in eden gears and one or two ok pieces. Oh and a noob in eden gear is much more likely to quit than a noob in a diab boots etc.

Seriously if they make everything break again this is what happens.
Diab and Valk gears go x3 in price
Become unobtainable to the masses.
Wealth isnt distributed it goes to the people who camp those mvps.
That wealth isnt redistributed unless some noob drops a ultra rare ghostring card or something from another mvp.
The Valk/Diab farmers being the richest outbid and win said items as they have monopoly on the best gear source.

End of the day this makes 95% of the population LESS happy and more likely to quit and makes 5% of the population more happy.
The way it currently is keeps those 95% MORE happy and makes the 5% emo cry but they're hard core anyway so wouldnt quit so who cares.

Net win for server player base.

The economy needs to be based on an influx of new players. If new players keep coming then the gears will always sell and sell at a price that they can afford. New players put alot of KP into the economy to help them start out thus a good turn over of zeny.


Those people who monopolize MVP gear while camping it 24/7, do not understand us player. Satan Morroc drops are at 50% and still sells at a drastic 100M, and can be easily killed without spending even close to 5-10M in zeny(I know this because i killed it with friends of mine). I can understand the gear being 100M when it first became live which was at an average of 200-300M. But it has been a while since 13.1 been out, and those camping it are controling the price on a monopolize valk server. Drops from MVP as heim mention

"no MVP gear above 1% should or normal monster drop above .05% should ever be priced in the high 10s of millions"

Having to spend 100M on a gear that is heavily monopolize and have it break when upgrading. Is that an encouraging way to show gameplay on RO? There is no way that player will earn back that 100M it spent on a gear that should be worth less then 100M. The certification and upgrading level the playing field for those who do buy those expensive item.
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#108 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:50 PM

Those people who monopolize MVP gear while camping it 24/7, do not understand us player. Satan Morroc drops are at 50% and still sells at a drastic 100M, and can be easily killed without spending even close to 5-10M in zeny(I know this because i killed it with friends of mine). I can understand the gear being 100M when it first became live which was at an average of 200-300M. But it has been a while since 13.1 been out, and those camping it are controling the price on a monopolize valk server. Drops from MVP as heim mention

"no MVP gear above 1% should or normal monster drop above .05% should ever be priced in the high 10s of millions"

Having to spend 100M on a gear that is heavily monopolize and have it break when upgrading. Is that an encouraging way to show gameplay on RO? There is no way that player will earn back that 100M it spent on a gear that should be worth less then 100M. The certification and upgrading level the playing field for those who do buy those expensive item.


WHY DONT YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO MAKE THREE TIMES THE PROFIT THAT THE CAMPERS MAKE BY ACTUALLY HAVING UPGRADES WORTH SOMETHING.

I used to make a bil+ per week, which was more than the campers by buying their stuff and selling it upgraded to people who were scared to take the risk.

IT IS BETTER. FOR. YOU. IF. UPGRADES. ARE. WORTH. SOMETHING.


on a side note, all the unbroken gear clogs up the database creating lag.

So that's your fault.


I don't camp mvps and I'm too goddamned lazy to. I made my zeny mostly through upgrading or selling supplies. So don't go saying I'm looking out for my own personal interests, because frankly, it would put prices up for me.

Edited by Xellie, 09 November 2011 - 02:52 PM.

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#109 generalCOOLyo

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:08 PM

Off topic:

Please Make "Black Devil Mask" tradable please. :)
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#110 TheSquishy

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:26 PM

Y U GUYS NO UNDERSTAND SUPPLY AND DEMAND?

First of all, +9 is not meant to be the pinnacle of upgrade success. That's why we can go up to +20.

Second, gears will now be valued more for their usefulness than for their rarity. A gear that is a must have
for every account will retain its value much in they way things like orleans gloves and other accessories do now.

3rd, if card worthy gear becomes more readily available, guess what is going to happen to the
demand in cards...it's going to skyrocket and the the prices you can charge for them with it.
I got my KK card for 1 mil right before renewal...guess how much they are now?

4th, If farmers stop saturating the market with MVP gear, these items will naturally increase in value as
their rarity is restored.

5th, you farmers that have like 20 valk armor and diablous robes and stuff. Go slot enchant that crap.
You'll break 80% and people will pay top zeny for +3 stat armors that you might get out if it.
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#111 blongx

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:32 PM

WHY DONT YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO MAKE THREE TIMES THE PROFIT THAT THE CAMPERS MAKE BY ACTUALLY HAVING UPGRADES WORTH SOMETHING.

I used to make a bil+ per week, which was more than the campers by buying their stuff and selling it upgraded to people who were scared to take the risk.

IT IS BETTER. FOR. YOU. IF. UPGRADES. ARE. WORTH. SOMETHING.


on a side note, all the unbroken gear clogs up the database creating lag.

So that's your fault.


I don't camp mvps and I'm too goddamned lazy to. I made my zeny mostly through upgrading or selling supplies. So don't go saying I'm looking out for my own personal interests, because frankly, it would put prices up for me.


I agree with you that items has to be able to break to easily help maintain the flow of the economy on RO. Never said you MVP camped, just agreeing with the quote. But we all know the economy will never maintain a flow with gears being monopolize.
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#112 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:33 PM

+3 of a stat matters in renewal what?
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#113 TheSquishy

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:40 PM

Some classes have skills that directly factor particular stats.
+3 vit,dex,int,luck armors all sell super well and are difficult to make.
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#114 DeltaRay

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:46 PM

I think consuming items during the upgrade process has the potential to work if done right. A lot of people would find themselves willing to sacrifice gears if it means the one they want survives the process with better odds.

It may require "advanced" EMB's that good MVP gear can be traded for, that can only be used for upgrading for example to combine mine and your suggestions. That solves the problem of it messing with MVP summons I think.

For example Valk armor = 10 gold merit badges (god im back in school again)

HD ore + gold badge = enriched HD ore

Now that has the potential to work great if you gear:badge conversion rate has the right balance. You still need large stacks of HD ores, but not as many as before. Heres the kicker though. People dont stop at +9/10/11/12 because thats their desired upgrade. They stop there because Thats as much as they can afford. IF the rates improve, people will still buy the same amount of HD ores. They will just end up in the +12/13/14/15 range instead so theres no real loss of kafra point revenue.

There will be a sweet spot at which people would start breaking down their gears (Aion had a neat system like that) which doesnt neccesarily need to apply to ALL mvp gear (its perfectly ok for recycling variants or valk armor etc to be uneconomical) so long as a decent amount, say for example when a gear reaches 5m in value or so it stops there

this kid deservers a gold medal is probably the best non stupid idea I read soo far, it removes items from the market thus giving them value, if they go up price ppl will most likely bother to kill mvps. why arent u a fungineer ??
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#115 Orath

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:49 PM

Supposedly everyone has +9 KVM gear though, so this is an opportunity to possibly make the other stuff to 9 from 7. The current event won't help with +10 and higher stuff.



Well Not everyone has a +9 Kvm Gear i surely dont
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#116 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:54 PM

Some classes have skills that directly factor particular stats.
+3 vit,dex,int,luck armors all sell super well and are difficult to make.


vit I can see.

almost everything else though is a factor of substats.
For example +3 int adds... well. exactly 3 points of heal, or magic damage. Take your pick.
luk adds 1 crit. (2 with a katar) or potting success rate.
int, dex, luk armors are probably mostly bought by potters.

I agree with you that items has to be able to break to easily help maintain the flow of the economy on RO. Never said you MVP camped, just agreeing with the quote. But we all know the economy will never maintain a flow with gears being monopolize.


And it'll never be able to be fixed if we all move against it.
Sure, the monopoly is there, but in the future one day, someone else may compete and knock them down. That someone else may be you.
MVPing is a competition, much like WoE. Yes, it sucks due to god items. But it is supposed to be desirable to drive competitive players.

Or what are you going to do to make zeny? What are you going to do when you have your +15 gears from top to toe? Quit? Controlling the market is a nice endgame aim to have. It keeps people playing longer.

Plus if your rare gears are hard to make, it gives you something more to aim for. People seem of the view that these +10 above gears should be easy to attempt to make. I see it more of a server ageing issue. So as the server has aged the number of +10s has increased, and so they are devalued somewhat and gears are not breaking out of the game.

going above +10 gives people reasons to upgrade and cycle crap out of the economy again.

personally, if upgrading wasn't a ruined mechanic right now, I'd be investing in upgrading gear to make a higher profit than the MVP campers.

The actual benefits of upgrades breaking armor don't really touch the mvp campers. They do stash up items and control maket flow as not to crash the price. The only thing that will change for them is how fast they shift their gear. The outcome is pretty much the same. It's the rest of the market that is stimulated more.

And people should become motivated to compete the campers which can end their monopoly and crash the prices fast.

Seen it so many times. Been part of it once or twice many years ago.
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#117 TheSquishy

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:59 PM

I think consuming items during the upgrade process has the potential to work if done right. A lot of people would find themselves willing to sacrifice gears if it means the one they want survives the process with better odds.


Let's refine this smart idea a bit.

Armor already have ranks (rank C to rank S).

NPC that noms armor for rank C-S upgrade tokens...win!!

A 2:1 trade up...more win!!
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#118 Kuwano

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:35 PM

Stupid question: if I use Enriched Elu on +6 headgear, in case of failure it breaks or downgrades (without cert)?

Edited by Kuwano, 09 November 2011 - 07:24 PM.

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#119 Xactoknife

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:12 PM

Why not have an NPC that can break down base gears (Valk mant, Nid garb, ect..) for some sort of special certificate or ore that can then be used for a enhanced upgrade attempt? Lots of other games have systems like this.
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#120 llzarrockll

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:35 PM

I don't understand how these NOOBS don't get it.

Gear HAS to break in order to keep MVP drops valuable.

How else will zeny circulate around the community without it all being a matter of kafra drops?

PLAYING becomes irrelevant

You could just be buying characters and items.

next on thier list is old event quest items reureleased to buy for kaffra points..(sparecard)... probly things like CoDs next...
certs...bad idea..... event only items not rare anymore
re-release of old event itemz.. also bad idea
mvp gears should break i also agree
the hd elu i was cool with but..


the certs..... the re-rerlase of rare old quest items... (reaaly bad idea)
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#121 KaneBlueriver

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:55 PM

Thank you Gravity. One of my goals in this game has been accomplished today. I now have +12 Encyclopedia [2] :)
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#122 Hrothmund

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:10 AM

Stupid question: if I use Enriched Elu on +6 headgear, in case of failure it breaks or downgrades (without cert)?


need to use a special NPC instead of the normal one i think ( i hope they disabled the normal one if thats the case).

Its interesting the progression in item upgrading. When i originally started playing, +4 was standard and +7's were considered "leet" or endgame. Later on, we got the card update with Carat + firelock, and +7's had become standard while +9's were then considered leet. Fastforward to today, +9's are considered standard and +12-14's are considered leet.

Looking into the near future, it doesnt take much to deduce they want +10-12 to become "standard" with +14-16 becoming leet, and the cycle will continue until we eventually reach +20.

Also its important to realise +20 isnt a hardcoded max, its just an arbitrary number at this point. If they had made +15 the max, people wouldnt be as upset. Absolutely nothing is stopping them from raising the upgrade cap to +30 after they implement all these cool ideas in a year or two's time. One of the main focuses of renewal was to allow more flexibility in expanding 'caps' for stats, levels etc with future updates so it wouldnt be at all surprising later.

Edited by Hrothmund, 10 November 2011 - 02:16 AM.

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#123 HRdevil

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:52 AM

Also its important to realise +20 isnt a hardcoded max, its just an arbitrary number at this point. If they had made +15 the max, people wouldnt be as upset. Absolutely nothing is stopping them from raising the upgrade cap to +30 after they implement all these cool ideas in a year or two's time. One of the main focuses of renewal was to allow more flexibility in expanding 'caps' for stats, levels etc with future updates so it wouldnt be at all surprising later.

Flexibility of winning more $.
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#124 DrMambo

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:43 AM

So true, +9 is definately the new +4 lol.
Somehow I don't think burying mediocrity 9 levels deep in upgrades is a good idea. Talk about discouraging to new players.

Also, introduce an upgrade event to squeeze out the rest of the people who want to +12 their equipment right before you introduce a patch that will make all of that equipment obsolete and useless.

+1 point to Gravity for being scumbags.
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#125 Charon

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:20 AM

Why do you want to make higher numbers easier to reach?
What was the point of increasing it to +20 then?
And why wouldnt there first be nerfing to stuff thats broken with +9?

You cant just make it easier because people complain they cant get above 10. The assumption theyll shut up when the norm is +14 is flawed.

Edited by Charon, 10 November 2011 - 11:21 AM.

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