248 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

Issue is this is what Gravity wants. Heim downright stated he doesn't feel they should be worth in the 10's of millions of zeny. I honestly have to agree, most new players can't break into iRO because of the MAJOR difference between a poorly equiped character and an "average" equiped character. You can hit 99 in a few days, yet you can't get gears for months.

You misunderstand what heim means :


That doesn't mean the gear should be more common. What THAT means is that there is too much zeny on the server circulating between players. If the overall amount of zeny is reduced, then 10 mil tomorrow will be worth the same as 100mil today.

Which means NPC sold drops become more valuable, etc etc.

MVP drops should still be extremely valuable to stimulate gameplay and competition, but zeny itself needs to be worth more, so that new players have an easier time breaking in to the game via selling to NPCs, etc.

[Myzery]

You misunderstand what heim means :


That doesn't mean the gear should be more common. What THAT means is that there is too much zeny on the server circulating between players. If the overall amount of zeny is reduced, then 10 mil tomorrow will be worth the same as 100mil today.

Which means NPC sold drops become more valuable, etc etc.

MVP drops should still be extremely valuable to stimulate gameplay and competition, but zeny itself needs to be worth more, so that new players have an easier time breaking in to the game via selling to NPCs, etc.

Not to insult Heim, but I seriously don't think he even completed college. He can't seem to grasp even simple things like how a free market works.

[OgreWilde]

To me it seems the ones complaining are the people with power to lose on the issue. In my opinion there should be ways to get to +20 even without breaking anything, possibly through quests or purchase of "special" items. Not everyone plays KvM and most who do only farm it anyway, so that excuse is garbage, greedy people are natural power mongers and that hurts us all, especially free players who complain about things exactly like this, some of us pay for our luxuries around here and many play long hours trying for that weapon or armor to further one's own success, why are some so conceted that they believe my +20 weapon has anything to do with their game? The answer is because of jealousy, any true life-long RPGer (MMO's are still RPG's whether u like it or not) will attest that not being able to perfect something is simply undesirable in this type of game. I'm not saying everything should be instant but it should be a realistic goal, not wishful thinking, the mechanics as they stand are certainly based on just that, wishful thinking!

[Shiroi17]

Not to insult Heim, but I seriously don't think he even completed college. He can't seem to grasp even simple things like how a free market works.

You can't apply free market mechanics to a game except maybe EVE online, In a free market mechanic, you don't have an entity close to "God" that can give infinite supply of certain items. (Kafra shop).

So not to insult you but I doubt you even completed high school.

[Myzery]

To me it seems the ones complaining are the people with power to lose on the issue. In my opinion there should be ways to get to +20 even without breaking anything, possibly through quests or purchase of "special" items. Not everyone plays KvM and most who do only farm it anyway, so that excuse is garbage, greedy people are natural power mongers and that hurts us all, especially free players who complain about things exactly like this, some of us pay for our luxuries around here and many play long hours trying for that weapon or armor to further one's own success, why are some so conceted that they believe my +20 weapon has anything to do with their game? The answer is because of jealousy, any true life-long RPGer (MMO's are still RPG's whether u like it or not) will attest that not being able to perfect something is simply undesirable in this type of game. I'm not saying everything should be instant but it should be a realistic goal, not wishful thinking, the mechanics as they stand are certainly based on just that, wishful thinking!

You have some of the worst arguments I have ever seen. You don't even know what jealousy means.
People like you really make me question if modern medicine is a good thing.

[Xellie]

To me it seems the ones complaining are the people with power to lose on the issue. In my opinion there should be ways to get to +20 even without breaking anything, possibly through quests or purchase of "special" items. Not everyone plays KvM and most who do only farm it anyway, so that excuse is garbage, greedy people are natural power mongers and that hurts us all, especially free players who complain about things exactly like this, some of us pay for our luxuries around here and many play long hours trying for that weapon or armor to further one's own success, why are some so conceted that they believe my +20 weapon has anything to do with their game? The answer is because of jealousy, any true life-long RPGer (MMO's are still RPG's whether u like it or not) will attest that not being able to perfect something is simply undesirable in this type of game. I'm not saying everything should be instant but it should be a realistic goal, not wishful thinking, the mechanics as they stand are certainly based on just that, wishful thinking!

I'm not trying to be rude, but that is a very poor arguement. The event benefits the "leet" more so than the average player, since they can upgrade their mvp carded items without risk. Item rarity is a drive to attain, not a given right.

This is an MMO, which is a bit different from a regular RPG, afterall, in an RPG, the NPC you play vs is either out to kill you, stop you, etc. you must play to be better than the NPC. In an MMO, replace NPCs with people.

In an RPG you don't have to strive to be better than someone else, nor do you have the option of selling your items to other players. That's where market value comes in, would you not like to makea +20 and be able to buy everything you ever wanted after all that effort? Or would you like to just nod and smile and say "that's nice, what do I make next?"

Edited by Xellie, 21 November 2011 - 12:12 PM.

[Okii]

I'm not trying to be rude, but that is a very poor arguement. The event benefits the "leet" more so than the average player, since they can upgrade their mvp carded items without risk. Item rarity is a drive to attain, not a given right.

I agree;
The event is for those who can afford lots of kafra points with real money, or for those who have the zeny to buy everything needed in game.
I upgraded three of my gears to +9, but after that I was too poor to go on. Think of someone with billions of zeny, safe certs, loads of kafra points, and very expensive gears--don't you think they're enjoying the event a little more than me upgrading my unslotted spiky band to +9?

Edited by Okii, 21 November 2011 - 12:52 PM.

[Shiroi17]

I agree;
The event is for those who can afford lots of kafra points with real money, or for those who have the zeny to buy everything needed in game.
I upgraded three of my gears to +9, but after that I was too poor to go on. Think of someone with billions of zeny, safe certs, loads of kafra points, and very expensive gears--don't you think they're enjoying the event a little more than me upgrading my unslotted spiky band to +9?

But, would you have upgraded any item to +9 without the event? Personally I wouldn't have I don't have enough funds for that either. This event made me get 2x KVM+9 and RWH+9. I have barely any zeny now but it was worth it.

People with near infinite resources will always enjoy events more than everyone, that's how it is. Maybe we will reach that status one day but we can still enjoy events! Just not as much

[Xellie]

But, would you have upgraded any item to +9 without the event? Personally I wouldn't have I don't have enough funds for that either. This event made me get 2x KVM+9 and RWH+9. I have barely any zeny now but it was worth it.

People with near infinite resources will always enjoy events more than everyone, that's how it is. Maybe we will reach that status one day but we can still enjoy events! Just not as much

Would we make the same arguement for everyone to own a miniboss card / mvp card or god item?

[Shiroi17]

Would we make the same arguement for everyone to own a miniboss card / mvp card or god item?

Wait what, Where did this come from? This event isn't giving MVP cards to anyone O.o

If it's about what you were posting earlier above, someone would need to be incredibly dumb to put a MVP/Miniboss card on an item that isn't already +9/10. They mostlikely already had the fund to upgrade to +9/10 before the event anyways.

Edited by Shiroi17, 21 November 2011 - 01:10 PM.

[Okii]

I just upgraded what I knew needed to be upgraded and going by what I could afford, I got 3 +9's.
I won't attempt +10 though, because then I might downgrade and not get back up to +9 within my budget. So i stopped and am very satisfied with the outcome.

It's nice to be an average player and see one of your most valued items hit +9.
You almost feel wealthy for a second.. lol

I wouldn't sell my gears anyways--I need them to be awesome or something. /stillpoor

[Xellie]

Wait what, Where did this come from? This event isn't giving MVP cards to anyone O.o

If it's about what you were posting earlier above, someone would need to be incredibly dumb to put a MVP/Miniboss card on an item that isn't already +9/10. They mostlikely already had the fund to upgrade to +9/10 before the event anyways.

Well thats not true, +7 used to be pretty damned good so a lot of cards were in stuff +7/+8

My point is that high upgrades above +10 are obviously supposed to be semi rare, but everyone feels they have a right to them. Rare/miniboss cards are similar perhaps, does everyone have a right to those via kafra shop?

[Cubical]

why not just tell us the upgrade rates? so i can not use it. I wasted so much money on this stuff im sick and tried of it

Edited by Cubical, 21 November 2011 - 02:39 PM.

[Hrishi]

If gravity left the market alone, prices of anything would be fine. The problem is they interfere with it too much and screw things up, then try to implement fixes to correct this screwing up, and so on and so forth. I also read something about how it takes a few days to hit 99, but months to gear. What would you prefer? Take 2-3 days to hit 99, 2-3 days to gear? That means you're done playing RO in a week. Is that what people want? Instant satisfaction with nothing to work for? That is really really sad.

[Shiroi17]

Well thats not true, +7 used to be pretty damned good so a lot of cards were in stuff +7/+8

My point is that high upgrades above +10 are obviously supposed to be semi rare, but everyone feels they have a right to them. Rare/miniboss cards are similar perhaps, does everyone have a right to those via kafra shop?

The huge difference is. Now most headgear/weapons requires +7/9 upgrades to be decent. So yes people want +7 to +9 more easily. It cost too much trying to upgrade to +10 I doubt many average player are bothering.

And again, nobody said anything about MVP cards and such in kafra store. Stop being a baby.

[Xellie]

The huge difference is. Now most headgear/weapons requires +7/9 upgrades to be decent. So yes people want +7 to +9 more easily. It cost too much trying to upgrade to +10 I doubt many average player are bothering.

And again, nobody said anything about MVP cards and such in kafra store. Stop being a baby.

+7 is ok.

Why you gotta be a communist and want everyone to be the same? I want to profiteer off the MVP campers, and every low/mid tier player should really want to be able to earn more zeny, not less.

Meanwhile qq I made bunches of +10s this event buying elu and certs with my 7 billion zeny. Sorry you don't want to be able to do the same.

[Shiroi17]

+7 is ok.

Why you gotta be a communist and want everyone to be the same? I want to profiteer off the MVP campers, and every low/mid tier player should really want to be able to earn more zeny, not less.

Meanwhile qq I made bunches of +10s this event buying elu and certs with my 7 billion zeny. Sorry you don't want to be able to do the same.

What does getting an item to +9 have to do with MVP's or communism? You have to be trolling at this point because there is 0 logic behind what you are saying. Not sure what that last line is about, you are contradicting yourself, but I am quite happy with the few +9 I got from this event they are a huge upgrade.

[Xellie]

What does getting an item to +9 have to do with MVP's or communism? You have to be trolling at this point because there is 0 logic behind what you are saying. Not sure what that last line is about, you are contradicting yourself, but I am quite happy with the few +9 I got from this event they are a huge upgrade.

They're still supposed to be semi rare, there's the point.

Each rare item gets artifically more common with GM intervention.

Upgrades are the method in which normal players can profit off people who camp MVPs. When you nuke the value of upgrades, people who MVP camp aren't losing out as much as people who potentially could gain a huge amount from those players selling them the drops.

Little things in this game affect one another.
People need to look past their short term benefits and at how this effects other areas of the game.

I don't know how to explain it more simply without resulting to insults, which, I can do if you so need.

[Shiroi17]

People who MVP are normal people. Outside the obvious, this is supply and demand, the economy will never be stable even less since bots exist. The pace the economy moves is very fast in game and you have to predict it and take risks.

You basically that will stay stable so you can profit off the same thing over and over. It just doesn't work like that and never did.
Yes, events like these hurt people making money by upgrading.
Releasing lucky boxes/kafra gear hurts people farming MVP gear.

To make zeny you need to take advantage of those situations, that's how it works.

Too easy to make +9 gear due to an event? Farm MVP drops that are worth upgrading or hoard +9 items and wait long enough to resell it for a good profit before the next event.

Too many safe to 7 certificates? Hoard them until there is an upgrade event you'll resell for 10 times the price you bought them.


MVP hunters are getting the shaft a little bit currently, GM's are trying to increase some drops value right now with the MVP turn ins, I'm sure they have other things up their sleeves.

People are complaining to complain and unwilling to adapt. It's ok my grandfather thinks germans are still all -_-s, you are not alone.

Edit: I didn't know that word was censored, oh well I'm sure you know what it is.

Edited by Shiroi17, 22 November 2011 - 11:07 AM.

[Xellie]

People who MVP are normal people. Outside the obvious, this is supply and demand, the economy will never be stable even less since bots exist. The pace the economy moves is very fast in game and you have to predict it and take risks.

You basically that will stay stable so you can profit off the same thing over and over. It just doesn't work like that and never did.
Yes, events like these hurt people making money by upgrading.
Releasing lucky boxes/kafra gear hurts people farming MVP gear.

To make zeny you need to take advantage of those situations, that's how it works.

Too easy to make +9 gear due to an event? Farm MVP drops that are worth upgrading or hoard +9 items and wait long enough to resell it for a good profit before the next event.

Too many safe to 7 certificates? Hoard them until there is an upgrade event you'll resell for 10 times the price you bought them.


MVP hunters are getting the shaft a little bit currently, GM's are trying to increase some drops value right now with the MVP turn ins, I'm sure they have other things up their sleeves.

People are complaining to complain and unwilling to adapt. It's ok my grandfather thinks germans are still all -_-s, you are not alone.

Edit: I didn't know that word was censored, oh well I'm sure you know what it is.

Wow. No I don't think you play the same RO that I do. BRB camping satan morroc since normal people do. OH WAIT. You are wrong. only god item loaded big guilds can do that. I could do that. Normal players can't.

I didn't insult you, no need to bring up -_-s.

I'm am concerned about the removal of ways for normal players to close the gap between themselves and the high end elite.

[Shiroi17]

Wow. No I don't think you play the same RO that I do. BRB camping satan morroc since normal people do. OH WAIT. You are wrong. only god item loaded big guilds can do that. I could do that. Normal players can't.

I didn't insult you, no need to bring up -_-s.

I'm am concerned about the removal of ways for normal players to close the gap between themselves and the high end elite.

It was just the best analogy I could find at the moment, but I see no removal of such a thing. We want the same thing but we have different views of how it is currently being reflected so I guess we'll just keep it there.

[Xellie]

It was just the best analogy I could find at the moment, but I see no removal of such a thing. We want the same thing but we have different views of how it is currently being reflected so I guess we'll just keep it there.

Because you probably didn't do it? ;p

It was an extremely effective way. But you're just backing down because you know you're wrong about the "normal people camp high profit mvps" thing.In this case, diabolus gear.

There's a reason only higher tier players sell that gear unupgraded and mid level players sell it upgraded.

[Shiroi17]

Well I don't kill Satan Morroc you are right.
When I "try" meaning spending at least 4 hours in a day I make ~50-70m off weaker MVP's. (solo)

I doubt many mid level player resell the gear upgraded, it cost way too much to upgrade gear unless you are lucky.
You need a lot of zeny to upgrade from +7 to +9, most mid level players rather save to buy better gear than risking it by upgrading to resell.

So no, I didn't back down because of that, our argument can't reach each other because we have completely different views of how economy works and what's worth the risk or not. Hell we could be both right or both wrong, at this point it'd just be arguing for the sake of arguing.

Edited by Shiroi17, 22 November 2011 - 12:00 PM.

[Xellie]

Well I don't kill Satan Morroc you are right.
When I "try" meaning spending at least 4 hours in a day I make ~50-70m off weaker MVP's. (solo)

I doubt many mid level player resell the gear upgraded, it cost way too much to upgrade gear unless you are lucky.
You need a lot of zeny to upgrade from +7 to +9, most mid level players rather save to buy better gear than risking it by upgrading to resell.

So no, I didn't back down because of that, our argument can't reach each other because we have completely different views of how economy works and what's worth the risk or not. Hell we could be both right or both wrong, at this point it'd just be arguing for the sake of arguing.

So if I told you that when I was a mid level player, I catapaulted myself to billions of zeny in one week by gambling upgrades, you'll understand my stance because I have actually done as I say I have and have that experience. There is a 1 in 3 chance that you will triple your zeny on a single item being upgraded. Assuming of course, the upgrades are worth it.

It is not worth it now, because of the updates, but it was a very lucrative business. Not everyone likes taking risks, but those who do should have ample reward.

Unless you can tell me your experiences in the economy and how much... you have uuhh... gained from using afformentioned experience, I'm going to trust my own experiences. A mid level player has the equipment they want already short of mvp/miniboss/god items. But how do you step over that gap? Upgrades have always been one very good way.

It was always safer as a lower level player to buy upgrades ready made. ALWAYS.

[Shiroi17]

So if I told you that when I was a mid level player, I catapaulted myself to billions of zeny in one week by gambling upgrades, you'll understand my stance because I have actually done as I say I have and have that experience. There is a 1 in 3 chance that you will triple your zeny on a single item being upgraded. Assuming of course, the upgrades are worth it.

It is not worth it now, because of the updates, but it was a very lucrative business. Not everyone likes taking risks, but those who do should have ample reward.

Unless you can tell me your experiences in the economy and how much... you have uuhh... gained from using afformentioned experience, I'm going to trust my own experiences. A mid level player has the equipment they want already short of mvp/miniboss/god items. But how do you step over that gap? Upgrades have always been one very good way.

It was always safer as a lower level player to buy upgrades ready made. ALWAYS.

By being smart and predicting the market. Less risks, more reward.
Bought a bunch of BMx3 when they were 100% from groove pack for 600k. Resold 9m each.
Bought 1m Mercury risers, resold each of them 40m
Bought a bunch of safe to 7 certificates 1m, used some for this event and resold the rest 10m each.
1m bloody branches, resold 5m.

But sure, I didn't gain billion zenys by overupgrading because minus miniboss/mvp cards not much sells for billions in Ygg. I got most of the gear I aimed for, lacking mainly CoD. There are still many ways to make zeny, people just need to be smart about it, you caught an amazing opportunity to make zeny and kudos to you for making billions out of it. If it was so simple to make billions everybody would have billions and things would be priced in trillions.