32 replies to this topic

[Blitzkrieg]

Raiders
after mystic knife/venom knife NERFING raider needs balancing in my opinion
1)Mystic knife
increase sucess rate to 50%
restore venom knife to 100% success rate
Sleep-will override all burn and poison effects (if attacked person goes to sleep poison and burn will be cancelled)(the sleep poison fest has been a prob for many people)

2)freezing assault
dual raiders are more of AP than aspd
so increase AP of freezing assualt which is their max AP skill to 1250 OR change the debuff it gives
it is 2nd lowest max AP skill if i am not wrong

3)
advanced dual weapon /dual weapon mastery
AP gain at level 9 is too low but still dont have issues with that
rather give ACCURACY passive added into it (0.5%)per level (1% at level 1)
so +10% after using 18 skill pts

advanced katar / katar mastery
to balance both classes give them CRIT up per level same as above

to balance this gain make quick style assault and crazy style slash (both lvl 5)pre-requisites for precision assault / slash

4)make max level for triple slash and double slash lvl-5/6 ... raider are the only class that need to spend so many extra needless points for a good stun
OR buff up combo slash (change its debuff raiders already get accuracy down in mental storm)(and AP down will be great ) (max 9% ap down at level 9)

5)defence down on crazy style slash is a bit high for a skill that makes a prerequisite for many -(lower to 23% at max level)
decrease attack speed down on feezing assault o 65% at max level (cleric buffs dont give a 80% up even)

CHAMPS

NERF THEM THEY ARE OP
1)make them slower (their movespeed is senseless)
2)shift some HP/defence passives to knight tree
3)restrict debuffs from AOES to only 1 instead of 2
4)give them a M-def up buff - champs need some their M-def is low (and u need to give some thing after some nerfing)(or all champs will complain)
5)remove 1 stun or remove the mute (dont replace it by any skill just remove it all together)
6)reduce blood attack AP

AFTER ALL THIS I STILL THINK THEY WILL END UP OP

BOURGS
just fix the 3rd eye prob

[Phish]

The mystic knife suggestion seems fine, can't really comment on the other raider ones except I don't think they should get another debuff; they have quite a bit already.



For champs I agree somewhat. Either some defense or hp should be removed but not both. I think the defene passive in the champ tree should be removed but keep their hp the same (they have always had the same hp as knights).

They don't need an mdef buff, they aren't supposed to survive magic attacks well.

Removing one stun is fine. Mute should stay in my opinion.

Blood attack is not even that good lowering the power wont do much unless you want to increase the hp healed along with it; Which I don't think should happen.

Edited by Phish, 02 September 2010 - 11:45 PM.

[poopiehead]

imo champs shouldnt have the mute, seems like a "magical" type of attack that only muse classes should have. having 3 stuns makes more sense on a champ than a mute

[xHydra]

Crit passive is useless, make it aspd (20% aspd at 18, as to balance it between 10% accuracy). Don't touch raider's freezing assault, Crazy Style slash can be left alone as well as Combo slash. The way the stun tree to sucker punch is setup most of the skills going to it in the r tree are very useful, while half the tree is useless, just decrease the amount of SP needed for the useless skills in the melee tree, to about 4/5 each. Change sprint to a 25% passive for mspd maxed.

Nerfing champ's mute will nerf knight's as well, just move it to knight tree. Aoes, make the debuff for spear 10% AP down 5second duration, 10% dodge down for sword aoe, 5s duration, and the other spear aoe, mspd down removed and made 5second duration. The defense down aoe should be left alone or the effect nerfed slightly. Instead of giving them a mdef up buff just give them a 10% passive on defense training and on the 10% def passive in the champ tree change it to 10% mdef up too. Doing this will help knights as well (In changing defense training, put the lost defense onto another knight passive.), and make the champions need to spend more SP on the non-damaging debuff aoes in the 2handed tree. As for the movement speed, change quick step to 10% mspd passive instead of 25%. and make the spear passives give attack speed, 20% on each passive maxed, and lower the SP needed to max melee combat mastery to 5sp. Blood attack can be left alone as its not even OP.


Bourg just give them a dodge down(Maybe def down too) effect on one of their skills and a magic type attack, then make skills reliable or fix the add dmg unreliable skill bug and they're fine for skills. +third eye fix. Also change salesmen gait to a 5-10% mspd passive instead of 50 mspd, and the crafting tree move speed passive from 30 move speed to about 5%.

Edited by xHydra, 04 September 2010 - 09:54 PM.

[BrownBear]

I really don't think champs should be given passives for defense, let alone magic defense. Defense is supposed to be their weak point, and it really isn't right now. So I don't think giving them more magic defense is helping anything.

[Blitzkrieg]

agree with u hydra

good suggestions maybe yours are better than mine
(y dont touch freezing assualt)(it has too low AP and aspd is not much in fashion ryt now so the debuff doesnt give that huge an advantage)(low AP compared to other job classes)

[Phish]

I really don't think champs should be given passives for defense, let alone magic defense. Defense is supposed to be their weak point, and it really isn't right now. So I don't think giving them more magic defense is helping anything.

This. If they were supposed to have better magic defense soldier armor itself would have more.


Regarding nerfing champs I think their self buffs could use a little improvement. First off staminal assist (I think that is what the hp buff is called) is pretty cheap for the amount of skill points are needed for it. It only buffs 18% + a small number of hp, and lasts 7 minutes and takes 9 sp. Blessed mind the muse hp buff takes 4 sp and buffs 20% hp (and also mp) and lasts 20 minutes. An HP buff pot buffs 25% hp and lasts 10 minutes. Why does this skill need to take so many points for how weak it is? If it will take this many it should be a stronger buff.


Also charge is not even worth learning because of its duration. If it is possible make it last 5 seconds but NOT remove your current hp buff, however it should be given a 30 second cooldown or so to not be able to spam it.

[xHydra]

This. If they were supposed to have better magic defense soldier armor itself would have more.

Yeah, I sorta just threw that out there since I didn't really know what else to change it to, lol.

[Soda]

imo champs shouldnt have the mute, seems like a "magical" type of attack that only muse classes should have. having 3 stuns makes more sense on a champ than a mute

For some reason i kinda agree with this, keep the stuns but remove mute instead, i know its still not gonna make alot of diff (with the op aoes).

[Span]

Oh my God , lets nerve champions AP by 4000 cause its OP !!! Then movement speed by 1000 cause they should run like turtles then make their AOES 3 m range since the sword / spear / axe doesn't reach 10 m . Oh wait they will still be OP , hmmm anymore suggestions ?

[Blitzkrieg]

good suggestions SPAN im sure evri1 will like em
no wonder u r evry ones favourite\
+1 to movespeed reduction by 1000

LOL

[Blitzkrieg]

now i know what KAIZY meant by this on the old forums

o I think we all know that Champs are pretty overpowered. That's not to say they're the only class overpowered at the moment but they're pretty bad. I'm just going to sum up how they're overpowered and then suggest some changes.

Short version - Champs have 4 stuns, a mute, 2nd highest defense, 1st or 2nd highest ap, and 2nd highest hp. They can get 45% in accuracy passives, 45% in movement speed passives, 30% in defense passives, HP recovery passives, HP up passives (20% hp up), a skill that heals them (Blood Attack), several AoEs, and debuffs for dodge, ap, mspd, def, and acc... that also usually come with high skill power. If you're going to post and tell me that's not overpowered, you're either crazy or a champ (or span).

[Span]

now i know what KAIZY meant by this on the old forums

o I think we all know that Champs are pretty overpowered. That's not to say they're the only class overpowered at the moment but they're pretty bad. I'm just going to sum up how they're overpowered and then suggest some changes.

Short version - Champs have 4 stuns, a mute, 2nd highest defense, 1st or 2nd highest ap, and 2nd highest hp. They can get 45% in accuracy passives, 45% in movement speed passives, 30% in defense passives, HP recovery passives, HP up passives (20% hp up), a skill that heals them (Blood Attack), several AoEs, and debuffs for dodge, ap, mspd, def, and acc... that also usually come with high skill power. If you're going to post and tell me that's not overpowered, you're either crazy or a champ (or span).

3 stuns , soul wreck got effed , highest defense that just got whacked 5k a skill by a mage , highest ap that got hitted by a raider 3k per melee hit on me while i do 2k or miss ... , yes the hp is high with champs , and lol u don't really know what ur saying ... SWORD : 40% accuracy passives ... SPEAR : 40% movement speed passives .... AXE : 40% critical passives ..... Also if we were to master all skills you stated its unless we are lvl 300 ++ lolol or maybe 400 .

Add : our stuns got EFFED last update so if ur gonna eff this again then champion's would be once again losers.

Edited by Span, 05 September 2010 - 10:19 PM.

[Phish]

Oh not this crap again...

[Span]

Oh not this crap again...

Yes cause we ain't all dead !

[Blitzkrieg]

sry but after patch all i can ask for is

MOVE SPEED NERF and that CRAPPY MUTE NERF(maybe it can be shifted to knight tree)
maybe reduce success rate and increase cooldown

[Span]

Lemme ask you something , if u don't think champion class is worthy to use the mute skill then why knight ? Also i agree with the movement speed , its been suggested a few times to change the spear passive from movement speed to something else .

[Aldrine]

Span i dare you to use a raider or scout and pvp a champ with decent gears in TG. try being at the receiving end of champ attacks for once. that is if ur not chicken

Edited by Aldrine, 06 September 2010 - 03:49 AM.

[Rawrr]

awwww

[BrownBear]

3 stuns , soul wreck got effed , highest defense that just got whacked 5k a skill by a mage , highest ap that got hitted by a raider 3k per melee hit on me while i do 2k or miss ... , yes the hp is high with champs , and lol u don't really know what ur saying ... SWORD : 40% accuracy passives ... SPEAR : 40% movement speed passives .... AXE : 40% critical passives ..... Also if we were to master all skills you stated its unless we are lvl 300 ++ lolol or maybe 400 .

Add : our stuns got EFFED last update so if ur gonna eff this again then champion's would be once again losers.

Man cut this crap out. How many times will we have this argument. I don't care what you say happens to you. I see what other champs get hit for, the kind of damage they deal, and all the other things that goes on with them. Even phish is backing most of this up and he is regarded as one of the top champs. So please, spare us your whining because nobody takes you seriously anymore.

[Xros]

now i know what KAIZY meant by this on the old forums

o I think we all know that Champs are pretty overpowered. That's not to say they're the only class overpowered at the moment but they're pretty bad. I'm just going to sum up how they're overpowered and then suggest some changes.

Short version - Champs have 4 stuns, a mute, 2nd highest defense, 1st or 2nd highest ap, and 2nd highest hp. They can get 45% in accuracy passives, 45% in movement speed passives, 30% in defense passives, HP recovery passives, HP up passives (20% hp up), a skill that heals them (Blood Attack), several AoEs, and debuffs for dodge, ap, mspd, def, and acc... that also usually come with high skill power. If you're going to post and tell me that's not overpowered, you're either crazy or a champ (or span).

WOW! i'm pretty sure it's impossible to get all of them, unless you hax. but 4 stuns and 4 aoes would be sweet!

the main or primary melee fighters in an online fantasy game or setting is always likely to have the highest number of stuns.. while the magic class, speedy class, ranged class usually get the debuffs and status down and etc.

mute.. meh! don't care whether they get nerfed, transferred, removed or not..

2nd highest defense.. it must be.

1st or 2nd highest ap.. it must be..

and 2nd highest hp.. it must be..

trying to get both 45% accu 45% mspd passives from two different branches is stupidity and a waste of sps.. or i might be wrong..

a skill that heals them (Blood Attack).. it's useless.. for me..

SHORT VERSION - CHAMPIONS! they're not "OVERPOWERED", just simply "CHAMPIONS".. the only way to nerf them, is first they're name must be changed!

developers just properly embodied the name, "Champion".. in the past, like the 2-3 seconds battle era. "Raider" was the apex predator.. they were the "best buy", "the all in one package" and every rich player in ROSE has one of them or 99% of them.. and players whose main or only character is a "Champion" was in the category of "endangered species". and back then, you must use every available tactics/strategy to have a good chance of defeating them, while on the otherhand, they just go stealth and maul you to death. but not anymore.. Champions are dominating atm, unless Hellis clones himself.

Just wait for it patiently, in due time they're gonna nerf champs so bad and op a new class.. that's ROSE for you. and try to reduce rage meter.. too high atm..

P.S. I got +1 post count. cheers.

[ChickenBucket]

Man cut this crap out. How many times will we have this argument. I don't care what you say happens to you. I see what other champs get hit for, the kind of damage they deal, and all the other things that goes on with them. Even phish is backing most of this up and he is regarded as one of the top champs. So please, spare us your whining because nobody takes you seriously anymore.

wait... who actually took span seriously in the 1st place o.O

[BrownBear]

@Xros: Saying they are entitled to have the 2nd highest defense is too vague because the difference in defense between a knight and a low defense class is huge (numerically). They should indeed probably have the 2nd highest defense, but that value shouldn't be around the 9k range. That is too close to knights. I think 5k would be more fair.
And they don't have the 2nd highest HP, they have the same HP as knights.

Yes Rose has this habit of never being balanced, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to get it right. Who knows, sooner or later it might actually happen.

[Blitzkrieg]

WOW! i'm pretty sure it's impossible to get all of them, unless you hax. but 4 stuns and 4 aoes would be sweet!

the main or primary melee fighters in an online fantasy game or setting is always likely to have the highest number of stuns.. while the magic class, speedy class, ranged class usually get the debuffs and status down and etc.

mute.. meh! don't care whether they get nerfed, transferred, removed or not..

2nd highest defense.. it must be.

1st or 2nd highest ap.. it must be..

and 2nd highest hp.. it must be..

trying to get both 45% accu 45% mspd passives from two different branches is stupidity and a waste of sps.. or i might be wrong..

a skill that heals them (Blood Attack).. it's useless.. for me..

SHORT VERSION - CHAMPIONS! they're not "OVERPOWERED", just simply "CHAMPIONS".. the only way to nerf them, is first they're name must be changed!

developers just properly embodied the name, "Champion".. in the past, like the 2-3 seconds battle era. "Raider" was the apex predator.. they were the "best buy", "the all in one package" and every rich player in ROSE has one of them or 99% of them.. and players whose main or only character is a "Champion" was in the category of "endangered species". and back then, you must use every available tactics/strategy to have a good chance of defeating them, while on the otherhand, they just go stealth and maul you to death. but not anymore.. Champions are dominating atm, unless Hellis clones himself.

Just wait for it patiently, in due time they're gonna nerf champs so bad and op a new class.. that's ROSE for you. and try to reduce rage meter.. too high atm..

P.S. I got +1 post count. cheers.

well i do get the point in what you talk but apart from stats and skills its all up to who wins and who loses and how good are you
and with any possible combination champs still make it to or close to that top as follows
1)farming - ill say best farmers better than mages or bourgs cuz they can AOE continously and tank without having to worry much about how many a mob attacks you
2)PVP-currently champs are THE BEST in PVP
if any champ says that champs are not OP thats cuz he hasnt been able to strike the right combination of skills and ultimately every dog has his day and a champ is bound to gain access to a great skill built


IF ANY THING
a champs versitality in choice of skills shud be confined so that there will always be a limit to amount of greatness he can attain

as you see the DEV team is nerfing skills instead of decreasing their choice
SO that,for a champ who has managed to strike the right combo of skills will be pretty much balanced inspite of whatever you say

AND
Xros I wonder where you put all those SPs if you dont take any of the above mentioned skills

[Span]

Span i dare you to use a raider or scout and pvp a champ with decent gears in TG. try being at the receiving end of champ attacks for once. that is if ur not chicken

Why don't u use a champ and beat a raider / scout ? I bet raider / scout classes have more decent gears compared to existing champions right now .

well i do get the point in what you talk but apart from stats and skills its all up to who wins and who loses and how good are you
and with any possible combination champs still make it to or close to that top as follows
1)farming - ill say best farmers better than mages or bourgs cuz they can AOE continously and tank without having to worry much about how many a mob attacks you
2)PVP-currently champs are THE BEST in PVP
if any champ says that champs are not OP thats cuz he hasnt been able to strike the right combination of skills and ultimately every dog has his day and a champ is bound to gain access to a great skill built


IF ANY THING
a champs versitality in choice of skills shud be confined so that there will always be a limit to amount of greatness he can attain

as you see the DEV team is nerfing skills instead of decreasing their choice
SO that,for a champ who has managed to strike the right combo of skills will be pretty much balanced inspite of whatever you say

AND
Xros I wonder where you put all those SPs if you dont take any of the above mentioned skills

Best Pvp has always been mages and still is , they pwn champ theres no doubt , the SPs r putted into the requirements that are completely useless same goes for others .

Add : If they are still OP then lets go with this

Oh my God , lets nerve champions AP by 4000 cause its OP !!! Then movement speed by 1000 cause they should run like turtles then make their AOES 3 m range since the sword / spear / axe doesn't reach 10 m . Oh wait they will still be OP , hmmm anymore suggestions ?

Edited by Span, 06 September 2010 - 08:46 AM.