84 replies to this topic

[MrKisuke]

Greetings Everyone! Super Novice Players, 3rd Class, Trans Class whatever!

There has been a lot of issues coming from SNE- Super Novice Extended/Expansion (Or ESN) users about how SN/SNE are still Pre-renewal mechanics. Low HP/SP mods, weak and hard to level.

And so... In order to try and hope to have certain things changed around here for SNE to fit into Renewal, and above all, make them much more fun to play with... I was advised to make this thread.
As some on who mains a 150 Super Novice (MrStick), I see this to be very important.
And so, the idea of this thread is to give your opinions on....

New Name...!?
-Personally, I like Master Novice. I like it more than 'Hyper Novice', even though it contradicts. But I suck at names.
- Hyper Novice
- Ultra Novice

New Sprite...!?
-Perhaps give suggestions and ideas? Feel free to grab a paper and pencil and start sketching!
I'll also do the same when (if) I can.

HP/SP Mod...!?
How much HP/SP should SNE have? (w/ 1 vit)
Additionally... Shouldn't we get to keep our bonus, of 2,000 HP when reaching 99, when we go Expansion?
We loose our +2,000 HP at 99, and get nothing back at 150.
Currently... We get 21 HP per 1 vit. And I think 5HP per level.
What sort of mod increase would you want???

What should we get when we reach 150...!?
For starters, I bet most are thinking 'MORE BONUS HP!'. Which I agree with. But... What else!?

Gears...!?
Shoulnd't we be able to wear gears that don't apply an exclusion to 'Novice Classes'? (theres a difference between Novice and Novice Classes on gear restrictions)
Be able to wear the Ifrit Rings? (RoFL/RoR)
Was discussing about SNs, HP and gears with friend till we realised... Baby 3rd Class don't go through trans... yet they can go to 150 and wear Trans gears.... WHY CAN'T WE!?

Be able to in link...!?
Gears worn during link will stay untill you die or relog (character screen)? And not if you change maps!?

Perhaps own our own Glorious set? =D

Better Useful Skills!?
Current Skill Tree Here

Well here are some ideas. The rest is up to you.
To all you Super 'Duper' Novice Players (and Other Classes)....

What Changes Would You Like?
What Are Your Ideas?

This is strictly a Suggestions and Ideas thread to help improve Super Novices. Please do not make irrelevant remarks about how bad and stupid it is playing a Super Novice or whatever. Either post a useful suggestion/comment, or go somewhere else if you want to complain how lame it is to do anything for Super Novice or troll.

[I would Add a Poll, but cant! So just Just like my post - pos rep]

Edited by MrKisuke, 16 November 2011 - 04:55 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

I don't care about anything else but their HP Pool. Super Novices are so useless post level 100 because they die in 4-5 hits from mobs of the same level even if they got all +9 gears...

[Charon]

Don't make it sound like they'll be able to compete with anyone if they got these, otherwise they'll never figure out how ridiculously lame the whole new class thing actually is.

This Super Novice "Expansion", or as I call it, KITB for Kick in the Balls, is the poorest job gravity has ever done at creating a job class.

First off, they're the first who did not even get a sprite change, seriously? At least Trans 1st class get a different color palette!
But here, once an SN does the quest, and loses the 99 aura (along with the job bonuses and a huge part of their HP), YOU CANNOT EVEN TELL that they're anything but just an SN

So ok, they need to do the most retarded job quest ever, this is not that much of an issue since its meant to piss off the player for picking this class (I cannot come up with any other reason for why they'd make it 1000 Poring kills)


The concept behind the Super Novice is that instead of specializing into any class to progress into a proper 2nd class, they figure out how to master any of the 1st class skills instead.
The idea makes for a weak but interesting class, as there can be some nice combinations of skills that are otherwise not possible.
After enabling them all the 1st class skills, of course the ones that have specific requirements which cannot be met (like requiring to use a bow) are excluded.

All that should have been done was the next logical step, just repeat the above concept!

The result would be, SN with all 2nd class skills available, except what requires spears etc.
Lets see what they actually got from each class and what they could have gotten:

Knight skills
Nothing. (mostly due to requiring twohand swords and spears, but cmon.)
Knight skills they didn't get but could
-Counter Attack (not that interesting or anything, but it'd be a prereq for..)
-Bowling Bash (this would have gotten them a melee area attack, a bit bugged but it'd be something!)
-One-Hand Quicken (original post genius! That'd be really nice

Crusader skills
-Faith (with the low HP this one is a must have, just because of the fact the SN loses about the HP this gives by simply changing to epxnaded skilltree. )
-Holy Cross (to be honest it's just a holy Bash)
Crusader skills they didn't get but could
-Resistant Souls (no one gets this as Crus do they? But hey why not put it in when theres worse stuff making it?)
-Grand Cross (would be hard to use since it'd easily kill the SN, but LOL)
-Sacrifice (this would be hilarious, "my fellow players, Ill take the damage for you!" )
-Guard (they can use shields, so why not if my rogue can copy and use these too)
-Smite
-Shield Reflect ( )
-Defending Aura

Assassin skills
-Enchant Poison (I guess)
Assassin skills they didn't get but could
-Cloaking (that would be something obvious to expect I thought.)
-Poison React
-Venom Dust
-Venom Splasher (these poison skills aren't anything big but there's no reason to leave them out either)

Rogue skills
-Tunnel Drive (srsly not even Gank or anything?)
Rogue skills they didn't get but could
-Gank
-Mug (so gangster)
-Divests
-Scribble (: D)
-Haggle
-Back Stab
-Sightless Mind (thats one very useful skill right there! Any melee SN would be very grateful to have it, probably even more than BB)
-Snatch (useful in situations)

Hunter skills
-Flasher
-Freezing Trap
-Sandman
-Skid Trap
(Seriously, these are utter crap. Hunters would be grateful if they didnt need to get these! Why were they so desperate to not include ANY trap that might be of use? Even the stupid Talkie Box would be great.)
Hunter skills they didn't get but could
-Beast Mastery (they get all the other masteries)
-Shockwave Trap
-Land Mine
-Blast Mine
-Claymore Trap
-Talkie Box (wooo)
-Ankle Snare (THIS. trap and cast your spell! A combo! A useful combo of skills! Oh dear!)

Performer skills
Nothing. (Obviously 95% need instruments)
Performer skills they didn't get but could
-Dazzler/Unbarring Octave (this one would work : D)

Priest skills
-Gloria (must have)
-Impositio Manus (another mastery just in form of buff.)
-Sanctuary (geez gladly have every other priest skill no?)
-Status Recovery (omg this is badass. you can cure other ppl of some status, coz so many party with you and arent immune. You cant use it on yourself coz youre frozen or whatever)
Priest skills they didn't get but could
-Aspersio (what else is the Aqua Benedicta for? troll)
-Suffragium (shorten dat cast : D)
-Resurrection
-Lex Divina
-Lex Aeterna (cold be handy to buff that crap damage to something slightly less crap)
-Turn Undead (ya)
-Magnus Exorcismus
-BS Sacramenti
-Kyrie Eleison (YES PLZ need any survival stuff that can get)
-Magnificat (how did they miss this?? SN... low sp...???)
-Mace Mastery (its crap but still should be priority to Axe Mastery on the tree!!)
-Slow Poison (jesus no one has this skill on any server, why not give it to SN? A miracle that wasnt the only thing they got, let alone not being in at all!!)

Monk skills
-Iron Fists (what the crap. Even the crappiest weapon is better than barehand for this.)
-Summon Spirit Sphere
-Sphere Absorbtion
Monk skills they didn't get but could
-Raging Trifecta Blow
-Raging Quadruple Blow
-Raging Thrust
-Flee
-Root
-Spiritual Cadence
-Mental Strength
-Occult Impaction (some use for the spirits, eh? derp.)
-Throw Spirit Sphere
-Fury (HMPF)
(?)-Guillotine Fist (SO WAHT. With those 300 soemthing SP, wont be killing mvps serverwide or anything, right? someone do calculations plz)
-Snap (OH Snap)

Blacksmith skills
-Hilt Binding (okay. Point of it is also to increase duration of 3 skills that you don't have )
-Weaponry Research (that's actually the best mastery of them all. Just the forging bonus has no use)
Blacksmith skills they didn't get but could
-Smith Everything/Tempering/Stone Craft/Oridecon Research (if SNs get carts and can vend, whats the problem with this?)
-Hammer Fall
-Weapon Repair
-Skin Tempering
-Ore Discovery
-Adrenaline Rush (they can use maces! Maybe a battle priest would party them since they suck horribly too : D)
-Weapon Perfection
-Power Thrust
-Maximize Power

Alchemist skills
-Axe Mastery (this got in while so much stuff didn't??)
Alchemist skills they didn't get but could
-Potion Research (whats the deal?)
-Prepare Potion
-Aid Potion (O:)
-Bomb
-Acid Terror
-Summon Marine Sphere
-Summon Flora
-Biochemical Protections (for lolz. Maybe if there was a SN only woe someday xD.....)

Sage skills
Nothing, except what they have from Wizard already. (why? some wiz/priest skills combined with sage casting utility? I'd make a SN for this.. why?)
Sage skills they didn't get but could
-Dragonolgy (More INT dont hurt if wanted)
-Magic Rod
-Spell Breaker
-Dispel
-Cast Cancel
-Freecast (omg)
-Endow Something
-Volcano
-Whirlwind
-Deluge (WATERBALLLLLLLLLLLLL)
-Magnetic Earth (that would be interesting : D)
-Hocus Pocus (Sages don't want it but so what xD)

And now the class they got the only really any good skills from
Wizard skills
-Sense
-Earth Spike
-Heavens Drive (woo a magic aoe thats not Thunderstorm!)
-Quagmire (neat!)
-Sightrasher (even classes who get it get it for unlocking more skills.)
-Fire Pillar
-Jupitel Thunder (definitely welcome!)
-Water Ball (if they had Deluge, but now...)
-Ice Wall
-Frost Nova (okay. Its not SG but its something.)
Wizard skills they didn't get but could
-Storm Gust (would it be really so wrong to give them this amazing skill?)
-Lord of Vermillion
-Metero Storm

High Wizard skills
-Stave Crasher
WAIT WHAT? THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. WHAT IS THIS DOING THERE? WHY IT! WHY A TRANS SKILL? WHY NOT SOME OTHER TRANS SKILL? THERE IS NO LOGIC HERE. WHY DIDNT THEY JSUT GIVE THEM ZEN THEN OR IDK MAN WHAAAAAAT.


Also, with just 50 new job lvls, there is too many skills that will never be worth getting (lots of them have as many as 10 lvls with really slow improvements) as every job you get is precious at this point. Something liek at least 70 would be much more appropriate. The job exp table shouldn't just be a copy paste of the 3rd job tables either..
You're not acquiring deadly game breaking skills here.

Only problem I see is size of the skill window..

Look, I'm not requesting that SN gets buffed so it's any close to other classes, I just want them to be at least some fun. Just put more effort into it than making a skilltree in 20min while laughing at lunch about how people will play this masochistic joke anyway. I'm not kidding, I seriously cannot picture how else this came together.

Now thats a proper post about the SN "expansion" e_e

[MrKisuke]

I don't care about anything else but their HP Pool. Super Novices are so useless post level 100 because they die in 4-5 hits from mobs of the same level even if they got all +9 gears...

Thank you for your reply.

About the 'die in 4-5 hits from mobs of the same level', that depends on the build and the right gears as well as the quantity of the mob.
However, just increasing the HP pool doesn't make it much better. There's more that needs to be done, which you're unaware of.

And 'useless'? Lol, seems like you don't know the point of a Super Novice..... For Fun!! xD

@Charon, thank you for your very detailed reply.

[CeruleanGamer]

Thank you for your reply.

About the 'die in 4-5 hits from mobs of the same level', that depends on the build and the right gears as well as the quantity of the mob.
However, just increasing the HP pool doesn't make it much better. There's more that needs to be done, which you're unaware of.

And 'useless'? Lol, seems like you don't know the point of a Super Novice..... For Fun!! xD

@Charon, thank you for your very detailed reply.

I had one who joined me at Juperos TI and all they do is kiss the floor dead 90% of the time making our ABs waste so many bgems.

[Heart]

EDIT: <3

New Name...!?
-Personally, I like Master Novice. Sounds more epic than 'Hyper Novice'.

Yes! every class has a unique name,even new ninja classes get TWO cool names to choose from!

New Sprite...!?
-Perhaps give suggestions and ideas? Feel free to grab a paper and pencil and start sketching!
I'll also do the same when (if) I can.

YES!!
how would u feel to be a 150 Genetic looking like a weirdo alchemist?!

HP/SP Mod...!?
How much HP/SP should SNE have? (w/ 1 vit)
Additionally... Shouldn't we get to keep our bonus, of 2,000 HP when reaching 99, when we go Expansion?
Currently... We get 21 HP per 1 vit. And I think 5HP per level.
What sort of mod increase would you want???

What should we get when we reach 150...!?
For starters, I bet most are thinking 'MORE BONUS HP!'. Which I agree with. But... What else!?

HP modifiers? since when did SN even have that...man seriously mobs have higher HP at those levels...

Gears...!?
Shoulnd't we be able to wear gears that don't apply an exclusion to 'Novice Classes'? (theres a difference between Novice and Novice Classes on gear restrictions)
Be able to wear the Ifrit Rings? (RoFL/RoR)

Atleast Trans gears if not a few thirds and tht novice class thingy too

Be able to in link...!?
Gears worn during link will stay untill you die or relog (character screen)? And not if you change maps!?

Perhaps own our own Glorious set? =D

i ll have to say no too this one

[I would Add a Poll, but cant! So just put '<3' in bold along with your reply to show your agreement ^_^ Thanks.]

cause normal forums users cant, but i might be wrong!

Edited by Heart, 14 November 2011 - 07:53 AM.

[Codface]

SN expansiin was a rush job. They never tested it or cared. It came out of no where and basically made 90%of SN players not bother

[asayuu]

Really. I am leveling with my friend who is leveling her super novice. She forgot to learn firewall, so I snare for her. It's so fun~ And snaring is good when you need to fight undead or fire monsters.

Think about: Snare + Deluge + Water Ball. Would the novice be able to oneshot Kasas or Salamanders this way~~~~? /rice

Some of the buffs are given by the Super Novice chants and/or levelup angel, but I see no reason to not add them as normal skills. And seriously. Using a super novice to make a turnin just to "level fast"? This is not supposed to be their purpose as MrKisuke said.

The biggest problem of a Super Novice is its VERY LOW HP/SP pools. It would be nice if a Super Novice [Extended] had a HP pool of a first class, instead of a normal novice pool. Like, a 99 ESN having the same HP as a lv99 swordie or merch~~~~

Also, if a Super Novice is supposed to be "a gentle mix of all first classes"... Why not letting the full effects of the Swordsman, Merchant, Acolyte, Thief, Archer and Mage cardsets work with them?

Also. The link thing is a Taekwon Class bug. Taekwon buffs do not persist on mapserver change. [Like, if I warp from Prontera -> Morroc, I lose any taekwon class buff. Kick stances, Tumbling, Links, Kaizel, Kaahi]

Also. <3

Edited by asayuu, 14 November 2011 - 08:16 AM.

[Charon]

The trans first classes at least got a palette change!

[KataiKou]

I've always felt like the Super Novice class should just get everything from the First/Second classes. I don't really see how that would be overpowered compared to any of the 3rd Level class skill combos. The ability to "Create a class" is intriguing, but the options are really plain. I'm looking at the skil tree and thinking "So if I caster type, it'd be a crappy Wizard + Faith...".

I've heard GMs refer to 100+ Super Novices as Super Duper Novices. I really like that name >_>

Edited by KataiKou, 14 November 2011 - 09:26 AM.

[Codface]

Super Novice deserves to be a low hp baby peco riding freecasting Storm Gust monster.

[morphine]

The HP/SP is a problem for my SNs consistently, no matter what type they are. If it was improved a bit or maybe if some new, level 100+ novice gears were introduced to help, it would make things less frustrating.

I definitely think they deserve having a new, ridiculously cute sprite, too.

[Skyven]

personally i'd like to have an option to go BACK to regular sn, my lvl 100 sn is job 9 and just has jupeti 8 and i'm killing the same junk as before I'd rather just scrap the whole idea and redo it again with some actual thought. I regret doing that job change quest, i'd rather have my 99 aura back

[Codface]

Moment i read up on the SN expansion i respeced my caster SN to a pure vend char. Says it all

[KataiKou]

Moment i read up on the SN expansion i respeced my caster SN to a pure vend char. Says it all

I wish I could spec a SN to be a full item hoarder. Vending, Aqua Benedicta, Potion Craft, Weapon Craft, Weapon Upgrade, Create Elemental Scroll, Craft Arrow, Gank....

Edited by KataiKou, 14 November 2011 - 10:03 AM.

[Charon]

Super novice is a "for fun class" (except its not remotely fun)
supposed to be a challenge as it's so much weaker (except its not as you either grind on monsters that give no exp forever or die 100% trying to go somewhere slightly dangerous)

We are not talking about buffing SN up to 3rd class strength. Only to make them at least slightly fun and less awful.
Just stop them from being a sadistic cruel joke. Look at their skilltree and tell me gravity korea isn't trolling, and laughing their asses off when people actually go get one shoted by scarabs for trying to grind there with thunderstorm.

It's not a job class, it's an insult to anyone who mained a SN before they all quit half a year ago.

[Pingchan222]

Yeah, I also thought this 'update' was a huge insult. Not even a new sprite and such a crap selection in skills...

kRO seems to hate SNs so I doubt anything will be done. If Taekwons are getting an update still, I hope they don't get slapped in the face like this.

[MrKisuke]

Thank you for your replies and support everyone.

@CeruleanGamer - in reply to your post... That is the reason why they need to change SNs. So they don't die every minute.
@Heart, thank you for your thoughts!
@Asaayu - Thank you very much for your comments. Keep more ideas coming! <3
@Codface, that's what we all wonder.
@KataiKou - it seems like most people changed their SNs build when SNE came out. I don't blame them. It's like trying to level a merchant to 150.
Atleast they end up being used for a useful reason. o_O
@Morphine, what kind of gears? Be more creative and detailed! That is what this thread is for. For YOUR ideas. Like, New Armor with +10% HP, Mdef+10, Agi+2. Ya know?
@Skyven - Doesn't it make you go crazy when you wonder what kRO people were thinking when they did this?
@Charon, I want to smash my head against a wall wondering why they gave us 150/50 with no changes.
About the Gfist, I did a quick calculation. For a Monk, with 99 str, no gears, no buffs, base 99, job 50, with 300 SP.... can get off with around 10k Fist on an AK. So the calc says.
@Pingchan22 - please stop being pessimistic! Be supportive! Give suggestions and hope they do something!

Lastly.... Give ideas!!!!!! Along with your suggestions, give ideas of what to improve.
The HP/SP Pool....I should be based around Atleast a 99 Trans Class.
Give gear ideas! Keep the Positive Rep coming on OP.

Thanks again.

Edited by MrKisuke, 14 November 2011 - 10:36 AM.

[asayuu]

Armor with 10% HP? What is 10% HP on a super novice? 200? A super novice "as is" need fixed HP gears. [Pupa + Freezer = 1000 HP] > [Peco Peco + Matyr = 20%] for a novice class.

Well, new gears would help badly~~~~~ At least to try to repair the troubles that happened. [Also, why did Hypnotist's staff, that gave 25% MATK, like a +0 SoD, gives only 125 MATK now, while SoD gives 280? /omg]

Also. Trans 99 pool feels too much. But well, 8~10k HP on level 150, ignoring Faith bonus, is really not bad. ^_^

Edited by asayuu, 14 November 2011 - 11:06 AM.

[MrKisuke]

Spoiler

Armor with 10% HP? What is 10% HP on a super novice? 200? A super novice "as is" need fixed HP gears. [Pupa + Freezer = 1000 HP] > [Peco Peco + Matyr = 20%] for a novice class.

Well, new gears would help badly~~~~~ At least to try to repair the troubles that happened. [Also, why did Hypnotist's staff, that gave 25% MATK, like a +0 SoD, gives only 125 MATK now, while SoD gives 280? /omg]

Also. Trans 99 pool feels too much. But well, 8~10k HP on level 150, ignoring Faith bonus, is really not bad. ^_^

Haha, Yeah I know. I was just giving an example to the person.
And Trans 99 Pool isn't a lot compared to 3rd Class.
My hp with 77 vit has 9.8k, and that's HP, other classes HP mods are different.
(And I love your avatar pic!)

Edited by MrKisuke, 14 November 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[Kitten]

Call it Epic Novice.

[Alca]

super novices are a novelty class, meant to be a challenge for extremist players who chose to stay as novices for their main char, etc.


SUPER NOVICES WERE GIVEN AN EXPANSION TO 150, NOT A NEW CLASS.

IT IS NOT A NEW JOB CLASS

IT IS NOT A NEW JOB CLASS

IT IS NOT A NEW JOB CLASS


Don't like the challenge? don't play. Simple enough. I will congratulate the real super novice players who actually 150 it without turn ins

[Chigikogou]

Master Novice is a joke .. call it contradicting. Masters aren't novices, so is Novices aren't masters.
You can't call an Apprentice Baker in real life as a "Qualified" Baker not unless he finishes and completes everything.
Novices can't be "Masters" when they don't "Specialise".

You should read the thread in irowiki forums so you would be disappointed.

Quoted from the forums, Super Novice Expansion thread: Subclass kRO General

I am sorry but I think you are not going to like my answer.

Super novice is a for fun class But it's not fun.., a challenge to be undertaken it's no challenge, its boring grind on monsters that give no exp, not a class to dominate others This has nothing to do about dominating others, it's not even remotely about getting in the same league or anything like that! Its simply about making it at least some fun and not the stupid useless boring waste of char space it is. I will agree that pre-renewal they were able to get flee and instant cast to make them an interesting combatant, but not as serious of a threat when instant cast is taken away. Their HP mods do hamper their soaking ability but that is intended, they are novices that can go to 150 and learn a huge breadth of skills No they don't. The skills are the bottom of the crap barel, WHICH THEY DONT HAVE TO BE, without getting powerful.
I do wish they were given a new sprite, and a new name at least, but I don't think higher mods or skills is reasonable Their mods could easily double, and their skilltree get extended to include any usable 2nd class skill, and they would not become anywhere close to overpowered. Heck with all those old weak skills requiring 10 job points, compared to most 3rd cls ones, it would actually even be reasonable to give them about 80 job levels. And no copy pasted slow 3rd job exp table either.
It would make them fun. The same fun SN initially were. Combinations of weak skills otherwise not possible. Not this get-faith-to-compensate-for-having-lost-hp-via-job-change-bull.
It would NOT make them anywhere as good as actual classes. Just stop them from being a sadistic cruel joke. Look at their skilltree and tell me gravity korea isn't trolling, and laughing their asses off when people actually go get one shoted by scarabs for trying to grind there with thunderstorm.

I would make one if there was the least improvement in the reasonable direction, but as it is, it feels more like an insult than a job class to play.

And gear restrictions are meant to be all novices, of which a super novice is still a novice, we have done a lot to remove many of those tags, but for battle gear it is very much intended.

[CeruleanGamer]

Super Novice is like playing Counter Strike with a Knife while trying to kill people with AWM/P (1 shot sniper rifles).

[Hrothmund]

I like the idea of Super Duper Novice simply getting full 2nd class tree access (with a few exceptions). I mean really, thats what super novices were. A novice with access to all 1st class skills (with the exception of 2H/bow skills).

I also think they should keep their Lvl 99 hp/sp bonus, and receive another one at 150. Aside from that Their hp/sp mods are fine, its not like the original SN had no SP issues and couldnt go to high end dungeons (Jup pre-renewal? hells no!)

After much thought, I dont think SDN's should have access to trans gears. well I mean they already have access to trans headgear/weapons with soul link but what they really need is another cute armor set, like the one from lighthalzen or the one from the minibosses. The lighthalzen shield and muffler are incredibly strong already, i'd use those over trans gears any day. Something fresh would be nice though.