27 replies to this topic

[inbetween]

I dont know which genius thought it would be a good idea to limit each F7 map to a level range, but i feel as if its a terrible idea.
If you wanted to prevent abuse of F7, just implement a party level range limit i.e. all party members must be within 5 levels of one another.
Not only is there a level range, but youve reduced the total number of f7 maps, there is less variety and makes this game bland.
Take me for example, At level 68 the only F7 map i can attempt is Haven of Peace, one of the worst maps in my opinion. Soloing is difficult and i have to wait forever to find a party, I have these exp potions i have bought that i cant seem to make use of during this 2x exp event because of this problem.

Edit: Put this in suggestions :S

Edited by inbetween, 26 November 2011 - 02:30 AM.

[Kazu731]

I don't understand how you'd think you're actually addressing the people who came up with this idea when it's a game content-wise universal change. That being said...

The idea is to pull users away from F7 overdose for extremely easy leveling, and create SOME semblance of what it means to actually play the game. Having a certain F7 available to you depending on your range ensures you can't always just spam one strategy to level easily and you have to adapt and come up with something new. Yes, Haven is difficult and so is Dragon Velly, and yes it would be nice to choose a map if you'd like to, but the long-known problem with F7 was its supremely easy access that makes for a boring game. When you can do Valid Raeth F7 over and over and over and over and over and over there is a distinct lack of actual involvement while you're only doing F7 to level and not to actually play the game. The change is for the better of the game's development, whether you feel upset by it or not.

Edited by Kazu731, 26 November 2011 - 03:39 AM.

[MicoJive]

lightning build > f7

[whitekite]

Haven of peace is the easiest F7 for lightning

It fails around 48 but that doesn't matter for leveling

[shadowkun]

I don't understand how you'd think you're actually addressing the people who came up with this idea when it's a game content-wise universal change. That being said...

The idea is to pull users away from F7 overdose for extremely easy leveling, and create SOME semblance of what it means to actually play the game. Having a certain F7 available to you depending on your range ensures you can't always just spam one strategy to level easily and you have to adapt and come up with something new. Yes, Haven is difficult and so is Dragon Velly, and yes it would be nice to choose a map if you'd like to, but the long-known problem with F7 was its supremely easy access that makes for a boring game. When you can do Valid Raeth F7 over and over and over and over and over and over there is a distinct lack of actual involvement while you're only doing F7 to level and not to actually play the game. The change is for the better of the game's development, whether you feel upset by it or not.

I believe in freedom of action. One needs to play the game how he or she wants. Just because you people want us to play otherwise, doesn't mean that we should follow you. What I mean is if some1 wants to f7 day and night, where is your problem, its his/her choice and not to mention that many pros must have done the same thing too to cap at 80. If u tell me about game balancing, i find that the f7 'balancing' mainly an excuse to stimulate IM purchase and the gap between IM buyers & early gamers and non-buyers is widening further as well as. I think that the original poster is right and that one should be able to access any f7 or his/her choice.

[Mvffin]

I don't mind having to change maps, I just don't like the stupidly long lines of quests required to do Bubo or Arka F7.

[MicoJive]

I believe in freedom of action. One needs to play the game how he or she wants. Just because you people want us to play otherwise, doesn't mean that we should follow you. What I mean is if some1 wants to f7 day and night, where is your problem, its his/her choice and not to mention that many pros must have done the same thing too to cap at 80. If u tell me about game balancing, i find that the f7 'balancing' mainly an excuse to stimulate IM purchase and the gap between IM buyers & early gamers and non-buyers is widening further as well as. I think that the original poster is right and that one should be able to access any f7 or his/her choice.

well i want enchanting to be 100% rates but thats never gonna happen either.

[shadowkun]

well i want enchanting to be 100% rates but thats never gonna happen either.

Who wouldnt. Maybe your wish will come true to an extent : http://forums.warppo...r-not-get-this/

[Kazu731]

I believe in freedom of action. One needs to play the game how he or she wants. Just because you people want us to play otherwise, doesn't mean that we should follow you. What I mean is if some1 wants to f7 day and night, where is your problem, its his/her choice and not to mention that many pros must have done the same thing too to cap at 80. If u tell me about game balancing, i find that the f7 'balancing' mainly an excuse to stimulate IM purchase and the gap between IM buyers & early gamers and non-buyers is widening further as well as. I think that the original poster is right and that one should be able to access any f7 or his/her choice.

I did Rokko F7 to get to 80 too. What I'm saying is that it's been a long-held fact as being a broken system. Choosing a map would be nice, yes, but a feel of progression is far more beneficial for the good of the entirety of the game. I'm not saying I like having to do the more difficult F7s either, but I have the scope enough to understand the implications. Unfortunately it seems you're too stubborn on an immature idea to consider it.

[Jumpluffspore]

I believe in freedom of action. One needs to play the game how he or she wants. Just because you people want us to play otherwise, doesn't mean that we should follow you. What I mean is if some1 wants to f7 day and night, where is your problem, its his/her choice and not to mention that many pros must have done the same thing too to cap at 80. If u tell me about game balancing, i find that the f7 'balancing' mainly an excuse to stimulate IM purchase and the gap between IM buyers & early gamers and non-buyers is widening further as well as. I think that the original poster is right and that one should be able to access any f7 or his/her choice.

Honey it's happened already, they've shown you how to do haven f7 solo with lightning build, all I can say now is Shut up and grind.

[Nhat]

I think it would be better if they kept the level limit on the f7 but add a few new f7 maps to allow the players to pick between EQUALLY difficult f7 and add a little variety to leveling; however, I do understand tha this would requires a lot of work for the developer.

[shadowkun]

Honey it's happened already, they've shown you how to do haven f7 solo with lightning build, all I can say now is Shut up and grind.

Thank you for the kind words darling.

[Maronu]

I do not feel denying high level players the ability to enter low level f7 is the best solution. Perhaps that aids linear progression, but it also takes away from variety, the ease of finding a party, and the ability to farm certain items. If you want to encourage linear progression, how about letting players have access to all f7's that they have unlocked, but bonus exp is received for higher level/more complicated maps in the story, instead of basing all exp upon the monster level.

Level restriction + fatigue system is overkill in my opinion.


Suppose a high level player wants to farm skeleton bandages and try to get unsealed ones with rare stats such as damage drop, farm any other equip that is map specific, or just wants to do a lower level map for fun. Can't go rokko. Must always go to Dragon Valley for all leveling now? Boring...

edited: to eliminate confusion

Edited by Maronu, 27 November 2011 - 07:38 AM.

[zabmaru]

If you want to encourage linear progression, how about letting players have access to all f7's, but bonus exp is received for higher level/more complicated maps in the story, instead of basing all exp upon the monster level.

Everyone goes to the F7 with the highest bonus exp.

Edited by zabmaru, 26 November 2011 - 02:15 PM.

[Kazu731]

Mini bosses do not drop their items anymore in F7. Even if they did, an exp cut entirely defeats the point of an F7. Yes, variety is nice and this would have been great if F7 was introduced with limitation from the start, but if the exp was cut no one would have incentive to go to lower level F7s anyway. Of course, if a build at Rokko was extensively quicker than a higher level one, it would be viable to go there. But then that would result in the same issue that lead to the nerf, so the exp cut would have to be dramatic.

EDIT: For clarification, no items are dropped from bosses or minibosses in F7 anymore.

Edited by Kazu731, 26 November 2011 - 02:28 PM.

[Miname]

I miss Arkah. SO purdy
That being said, Haven is easycakes. I can solo it with minor difficulty. But it's actually pretty fun with a party.

[inbetween]

I don't understand how you'd think you're actually addressing the people who came up with this idea when it's a game content-wise universal change. That being said...

The idea is to pull users away from F7 overdose for extremely easy leveling, and create SOME semblance of what it means to actually play the game. Having a certain F7 available to you depending on your range ensures you can't always just spam one strategy to level easily and you have to adapt and come up with something new. Yes, Haven is difficult and so is Dragon Velly, and yes it would be nice to choose a map if you'd like to, but the long-known problem with F7 was its supremely easy access that makes for a boring game. When you can do Valid Raeth F7 over and over and over and over and over and over there is a distinct lack of actual involvement while you're only doing F7 to level and not to actually play the game. The change is for the better of the game's development, whether you feel upset by it or not.

Actually, this change encourages this more than ever.
And I understand you blindly want to endorse everything in game, but because you say it is so, does not mean it is.
This change is not better for the games development. F7 is more or less completed in the same way, just now you have less choice to do it, and less of a reason to do it. You said no items are dropped from bosses either, meaning nobody has an alternative reason to do F7 either i.e. get a certain piece of gear.
I have no problem with the fatigue system or anything else, but this is not necessary at all.

[Kazu731]

Sure, it's not what I say it is because I say it. But it's what you say it is because you say it. Gonna have to mull this one over, I think. I think we've just stumbled on an epiphany rivaling the ideas of the Enlightenment here, actually. Surely this matter is gargatuan in size and in scope nearly cosmic. I believe that your perfect example of exactly how not to argue--based on being just a tad bit upset--may have impacted the rationality of life as we know it. I think that [OH SORRY WERE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT HOW STUPID THIS OPINION IS]

Edited by Kazu731, 26 November 2011 - 08:06 PM.

[inbetween]

Sure, it's not what I say it is because I say it. But it's what you say it is because you say it. Gonna have to mull this one over, I think. I think we've just stumbled on an epiphany rivaling the ideas of the Enlightenment here, actually. Surely this matter is gargatuan in size and in scope nearly cosmic. I believe that your perfect example of exactly how not to argue--based on being just a tad bit upset--may have impacted the rationality of life as we know it. I think that [OH SORRY WERE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT HOW STUPID THIS OPINION IS]

No, mine is an opinion which i fully understand, the only one who is upset is actually you, who has clearly gone offtopic and started ranting nonsense.
Whether you choose to accept the changes is your choice, but people have the right to be unsatisfied. F7 imbalance was suppose to have been the issue here, yet they introduce F7 game coins and other item mall items that counter-act it. So there may have been an ulterior motive, yeah? Every action in this game is for profit i understand, and if they want to profit, the player base has to be happy.
I can ignore how absurdly unpolished this game is, with the crashes, laughable text errors, poor direction in just about everything....because its still fun, but to sit here and watch game mechanics being changed without fixing the problems and more server bugs shouldnt be tolerated.

[Maronu]

Everyone goes to the F7 with the highest bonus exp.

Which is exactly why I wrote "encourage linear progression."

Mini bosses do not drop their items anymore in F7. Even if they did, an exp cut entirely defeats the point of an F7. Yes, variety is nice and this would have been great if F7 was introduced with limitation from the start, but if the exp was cut no one would have incentive to go to lower level F7s anyway. Of course, if a build at Rokko was extensively quicker than a higher level one, it would be viable to go there. But then that would result in the same issue that lead to the nerf, so the exp cut would have to be dramatic.

EDIT: For clarification, no items are dropped from bosses or minibosses in F7 anymore.

Where did I say exp cut? I said bonuses for the higher level maps. There would be lower level people at certain maps because they don't qualify for the higher level maps. Sometimes those people are the only ones available when you want to f7, so if your lazy like me, you might just take the reduced exp in exchange for having a party and a builder. Perhaps I should have added that I don't feel we even need level restrictions since we already have the fatigue system in place. I see no problem with letting higher levels power level their alts or players getting help from higher level friends.

[zabmaru]

Which is exactly why I wrote "encourage linear progression."

If you give everyone access to every F7 and make higher level F7's give more bonus exp, I'm pretty sure people would just go to Dragon Velly regardless of their level, just like everyone went to Rokko since it was the easiest/fastest. I don't see much linear progression there.

[Kazu731]

REWRITE: Sarcasm aside, I can understand the points for ability to choose maps as opposed to the current system. That being said, I'm sure this discussion surfaced in the development office when trying to solve the issue with F7 that there was. Perhaps in future updates this will be a possibility again, but I believe that the reason the system is in place now is to solve the broken system that F7 created, while keeping it because it is a fun leveling system.

Considering the Item Mall items, I think that they keep in line with the general idea that an Item Mall in a free to play game is a luxury that may provide bonuses if you wish to partake. In no way are you ever forced to get them, and it's considerably easy to level with the current system in place.

Edited by Kazu731, 27 November 2011 - 07:00 AM.

[Maronu]

If you give everyone access to every F7 and make higher level F7's give more bonus exp, I'm pretty sure people would just go to Dragon Velly regardless of their level, just like everyone went to Rokko since it was the easiest/fastest. I don't see much linear progression there.

Oh, apologies. I see where the confusion was. I meant to suggest allowing players to have access to all f7s that they have previously unlocked or previously met the level requirement for. I don't want everyone being able to go straight to DV. I failed to specify that it is the players who have unlocked them all that should have access to all, and I can see where you were coming from given that error.But if you did want to allow everyone to have access to all maps for some reason, you could give a bonus to players for doing missions that correspond to their level range and give less exp the further you get from that level range.

Your points are incredibly valid in my opinion and I think of them as being part of the highest rung of argumentative thought on this issue. I will take the time to consider these facts.

EDIT: I should clarify that an exp cut was brought up in my post because that is the only way such a system would make sense.

INORITE!
God, it's like your always standing at the base of that metaphoric ladder trying to look up my skirt. >_<
I just want to scream at you and slap you for being such a perv!

Experience reduction to what specifically? We already have one thanks to the recent changes with f7.

[Kazu731]

Oh, apologies. I see where the confusion was. I meant to suggest allowing players to have access to all f7s that they have previously unlocked or previously met the level requirement for. I don't want everyone being able to go straight to DV. I failed to specify that it is the players who have unlocked them all that should have access to all, and I can see where you were coming from given that error.But if you did want to allow everyone to have access to all maps for some reason, you could give a bonus to players for doing missions that correspond to their level range and give less exp the further you get from that level range.


INORITE!
God, it's like your always standing at the base of that metaphoric ladder trying to look up my skirt. >_<
I just want to scream at you and slap you for being such a perv!

Experience reduction to what specifically? We already have one thanks to the recent changes with f7.

I have since changed my post because I was tired of sounding like an ass in this thread. I was thinking that an exp reduction for choosing lower level maps would have been the incentive, rather than an exp bonus for appropriate level range ones. The reason I thought this is because if you could do Rokko in a much quicker time than you could do Prokel, which would take a long time if you wanted to get to round 50 to fully make use of your fatigue points, the difference may not work out to be enough and it would be preferable to do the lower map to get the exp quicker. Assuming this, there would have to be a gigantic EXP differential to deter you from using lower level F7s.

This is not a bad suggestion at all, though. Because it may be a bit ridiculous to strongarm a player into not doing a favorite map. There are not many solutions I can think of and I don't think development would be willing to grant such a gigantic EXP bonus to appropriate range maps simply because it would also make leveling too easy. A compromise would be to rework all of the maps so they take as long as or longer than Prokel, or to--as they have done--just limit which F7s you can do. However, we see time and again that they build upon past implementations and rework them in unexpected ways. Often they prove to be a temporary system and I would not be surprised--not that I am anticipating it either--if there were further changes to the F7 mode in the future.

EDIT: I BURN PEOPLE WHO WEAR SKIRTS

Edited by Kazu731, 27 November 2011 - 01:54 PM.

[Slegiar]

Considering the Item Mall items, I think that they keep in line with the general idea that an Item Mall in a free to play game is a luxury that may provide bonuses if you wish to partake. In no way are you ever forced to get them, and it's considerably easy to level with the current system in place.

personally, i see this as a bit of a bull-_- excuse. yes its a luxury. but ya know, that gets to be like fox saying "a fair and balanced discussion" when they shove it in your face and change gameplay mechanics to insane. in fact, i may be going out on a limb here, but i think they need to stop fiddling with the item mall until they get the damn WHOLE REST OF THE GAME fixed. and before anyone says it, yes i'm mad bros, cause their screwing up very visibly.