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#1 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:07 AM

Am I the only one that follows the rules around here, with all the class based threads in community chat? I wanted to ask with all the buffs and nerfs flying around for other classes in the balance patch, is that going to change our role in the new scheme of things? I kinda gave up testing since we can't hold 2h staffs or release comet. All I noticed for us was that recognized spell is now useful, considering it lasts a minute at level 1 and is already cooled down afterwards, unlike pre-balance. Though, this doesn't mean much, if we can't out damage classes that spam AoE skills, since according to our skills, we're SUPPOSED to be AoE damage. Is any of this going to change?

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 12 December 2011 - 08:14 AM.

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#2 Anko

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:05 AM

Comet might be a bit better just due to the fact that all the other aoes are being nerfed. lol
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#3 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:40 AM

Comet might be a bit better just due to the fact that all the other aoes are being nerfed. lol


Afaik the cooldown has been dropped from 3 minutes to 1, but we still can't spam it like other classes AoE.

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 12 December 2011 - 09:44 AM.

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#4 darktie22

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:23 PM

Well your wrong on your post.
1-Now you can equip 2h staffs in test server, its been fixed
2-You can buy any books at pront (inlcuding TV and comet)

Recognized spell, whatever lvl you use, it ends 10 secs after cooldown is down (higher lvl, higher duration, higher cooldown).

Big changes i noticed:

1- Sw fix, now u dont take overflow damage, so u can sw fists again.
2- Frost misty+Jack frost combo have been stomped, frost misty freezing chance is lame (lower than 10% being at same lvl than the target, compared to ~90% pre-balance patch).
3- Chain lighting actualy hit for lower damage after each bounce against same target.
4- White imprision got fixed and now u cant no longer white imprision some1 who is already under its effects.
5- Tetravortex and summoned balls got a new cool effects.
6- Freeze immunity got changed so u can't get it with 100 int, so people is forced to wear unfrozen again or freeze under your jack frost/stormgust.
7- Comet changes like sated above.
8- Recognized spell changes, saving you skill points bieng full usable at lvl 1, and being good with that.

I got all of that as a result as tests in sakray test server.
In general, warlocks didn't get back their aoe damager roles and furthermore, their debuff role got nerfed [nerfing white imprision (wich was actualy needed) and frost misty].

Edited by darktie22, 12 December 2011 - 12:24 PM.

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#5 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:50 PM

Well your wrong on your post.
1-Now you can equip 2h staffs in test server, its been fixed
2-You can buy any books at pront (inlcuding TV and comet)


Really? I feel like like going back and testing now!

Recognized spell, whatever lvl you use, it ends 10 secs after cooldown is down (higher lvl, higher duration, higher cooldown).

Big changes i noticed:

2- Frost misty+Jack frost combo have been stomped, frost misty freezing chance is lame (lower than 10% being at same lvl than the target, compared to ~90% pre-balance patch).
3- Chain lighting actualy hit for lower damage after each bounce against same target.

I got all of that as a result as tests in sakray test server.
In general, warlocks didn't get back their aoe damager roles and furthermore, their debuff role got nerfed [nerfing white imprision (wich was actualy needed) and frost misty].


Somehow, I don't feel like testing anymore. I thought CL was getting a buff, not a nerf!
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#6 Caelum

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:03 PM

It's a shame. Warlocks went from being a fragile, debuff class to a fragile, useless class. There is not one, single role that Locks can do that some other class can't do better now.
Time to jump ship and make a Sorc, Sura, RG, or RK since they all exceed in damage, debuffs, and AoE.

Edited by Caelum, 12 December 2011 - 06:05 PM.

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#7 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:28 AM

It's a shame. Warlocks went from being a fragile, debuff class to a fragile, useless class. There is not one, single role that Locks can do that some other class can't do better now.
Time to jump ship and make a Sorc, Sura, RG, or RK since they all exceed in damage, debuffs, and AoE.


I think this is a little premature. Are you taking into account how the other classes have been nerfed? Besides, what makes Sorceror so much better than a Warlock now, when dealing with the same failings because of matk and mdef?

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 13 December 2011 - 07:28 AM.

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#8 darktie22

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:48 AM

I will start with instant cast, a skill that has int in the formula so isnt so high dependant on fail matk, diamond dust inflicting the worst status effecte ever (unable to pot, unable to walk, unable to cast skills) for at least 5 secs, enough to kill anyone. You can say warlocks has TV, but it shouldnt be able to 1shot important targets, wich should be it main purpouse, comet.... Well it is only a good way to spread burning status, shouldnt kill priority targets since its neutral property. Not saying Sorcerors are op, just that they are far ahead from warlocks, thats why after renewal, most of us changed to debuff build, now its also gone. In general mage classes are left behind, thats a fact. Im not QQing, just stating why im changing my main class since now I can only annoy with some strips (earth strain), some stasis (wich is very situational) and making my enemies wear unfrozen (but they should already wear one, unless their defaulting gr).

And yes im taking in consideration other classes nerfes as well. With all of that, we cant catch with high dps other clases have unless you wear god items or mvp cards (not taking those in consideration). But well, lets go deeper:

What can a warlock do against multiple targets?
- Frost misty+Jack frost? - No, jack frost wont get the extra dmg from freezing status since frost misty freezing chance got drasticaly lowered, so it will jut make your enemy default unfrozen and use a couple of pots.
- Earth Straih? - Situational, unable to cast trhough a gap, hard to cast through snipeable wall, reuse delay, low damage, cancelled by me. Only good as an aoe stripper.
- Comet? - Aoe burning status. Not high damage unless your stacked with god items/Mvp card/high + glorious sod. And even so, you shouldnt be dying to it even if the warlock casts 4 of those at the same time at you (you have time to pot even if the warlock is in strings, high after skill delay. Tested that with a 200 int strings and 140 agi warlock and still around 0.5-1 sec of dealy before can release it again).
- Crimson rock? - That actualy could work if people stop defaulting fire armors, but damage isnt high enough.
- Wizard's aoe - Ha ha ha. Not, seriously, no.

Now lets see warlock against 1 single target:
- Tetravortex: Will kill your target if you chose righ elements and enemy is wearing an element enchanted armor. Target should live if he doesnt has an element weakness and/or you fail at guessing it and/or your not wearing god items/mvp cards. As far as my woe experience, as a warlock with around 22k hp i lived 80% of Tetravortex that got casted against me without using seeds ales or similars. Also, its hideable... You wont kill a clever target unless your not alone and has some1 else to distract it.
- White imprision: Can buy you a few secs since seem that its chance of succes got a bit enhaced (not a lot). Only enough to run away or get ready your not 1hko cast and die after that.
- Marsh of abbys: It realy slows your target, situational but can be usefull.
- Chain lighting: I had my hopes on the buff on it, but after testing it I realized the damage is lowered after each bounce and not enhaced.

Did I leave something behind? Probably, but that doesnt change the fact that warlocks doesnt have lot of usefull things to do, either pvm in a party or in woe. I would compare it to other classes, but i dont know them so deeply as warlocks. (not saying i know everything about them, but is my main class, that means something).

PS: I forgot the only possitive thing that this balance patch brings to mage classes: Safety wall will save you from a fist or a melee 1hko skill. At least can have some fun swalling some fists, righ?

Edited by darktie22, 13 December 2011 - 08:52 AM.

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#9 Wizard

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:44 AM

- Stasis anyone? even with high VIT, LUK, you are useless for +50 seconds

- Sienna E. have no Stat reductions... therefore you can Stone Curse AoE for 18 seconds.

- Reading Spell has no delay so u can cast quick fast if u are used to it...

- Strings and Released spells are and always gonna be OP for warlock if used properly.

- TV damage increased if added Recognized Spell into the equation.

- WI has 100% chance on caster... u can save from anything that may harm you... duration can't be reduced by anything =P

- CL overall damage reduced... still can be spammable and dangerous.

Hmmm not bad I must say...

It prolly hurts people who play debuff warlock... for people who don't, this patch is quite good...
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#10 Kuwano

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:51 AM

It's kind of cool that it's possible to freeze or stone curse someone now, but JF's AoE range is nerfed by a lot, especially considering it's funny cast time and damage.

Edited by Kuwano, 14 December 2011 - 10:03 AM.

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#11 TsukishiroSayuki

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:27 PM

Comet might be a bit better just due to the fact that all the other aoes are being nerfed. lol

You are wrong about that, Comet was extremely nerfed
1º The area of the spell is smaller, a lot smaller.
2º The SP price before was 400 now is 800
3º To make full damage in all area you need another warlock 3 cell distance of you[how ease is that? its hard >.>], so u cant caunt in that.

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#12 Caelum

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:38 PM

So what we've come down to is that Warlocks, the physically weakest of all classes and only main role in WoE is wide-area debuff, just had its debuffs nerfed and wide-area nerfed.

In essence, the only useful skill left is Stasis. Well, that makes WoE builds easy now...there's only 1...the Suicidal Stasis build.
That job is easy in WoE, you simply
1. Run into a room
2. Throw down Stasis
3. Wait for death
4. Repeat

I'm glad my Warlock will be just as needed and useful as some other classes now ^_^
You can skip your RGs and Suras now, but your guild would be crazy not to have 5 or 10 Warlocks running around, at a minimum.
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#13 TsukishiroSayuki

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:48 PM

So what we've come down to is that Warlocks, the physically weakest of all classes and only main role in WoE is wide-area debuff, just had its debuffs nerfed and wide-area nerfed.

In essence, the only useful skill left is Stasis. Well, that makes WoE builds easy now...there's only 1...the Suicidal Stasis build.
That job is easy in WoE, you simply
1. Run into a room
2. Throw down Stasis
3. Wait for death
4. Repeat

I'm glad my Warlock will be just as needed and useful as some other classes now ^_^
You can skip your RGs and Suras now, but your guild would be crazy not to have 5 or 10 Warlocks running around, at a minimum.


Man.. if was true i would be happy ^___^''''
BUT..., and a big BUTT /rice
Stasis hit EVERYONE, meaning u will mute u guildies...
The next thing you see is you in the Saved point, AND guildless ROFL XD

Edited by TsukishiroSayuki, 14 December 2011 - 11:49 PM.

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#14 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:58 PM

This mentality of classes only being good at ONE THING has got to go. I was just in PvP, inflicting statues like stone and frozen and then doing double the damage on players. I managed to kill a GX, a ranger, and one RK, and I'm still a noob WL. This just goes to show, maybe on paper we suck, but you'll never know what you can do until you get out there and try! Now who's with me?!
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#15 Wizard

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:26 AM

This mentality of classes only being good at ONE THING has got to go. I was just in PvP, inflicting statues like stone and frozen and then doing double the damage on players. I managed to kill a GX, a ranger, and one RK, and I'm still a noob WL. This just goes to show, maybe on paper we suck, but you'll never know what you can do until you get out there and try! Now who's with me?!


Exactly...

I haven't changed my stat builds since there's no more change to it... my skill build has been changed to reduce Recog Spell to lv1 (no need for more) and increase WI, Sienna and Stasis...

I've been doing 15k ~ 20k to players on PvP with release CL w/o buffs and just brynhild... against 50% demi human resistance, so the nerf for CL is barely noticeable...

I'm pretty sure I can pull off ~10k or so damage in WoE plus strings for spam, killing won't an issue as it was pre-balance patch.

Comet has been and always will be a strategic AoE, use it wisely and you can wipe near an entire guild... specially now since people wont be defaulting GR anymore.

People, stop whining and start thinking on ways how to make the better of the class... I know it's somehow hard and quite expensive but that's how always has been...
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#16 Cmoota

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:11 PM

My only response to this is, DON'T EXPECT THAT MANY MORE WARLOCKS!!!!! THANKS GMS! GOT RID OF THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT EVEN GAVE US A "SLIGHT" FIGHTING CHANCE IN THE WARLOCK TEST!!Our Matk and our casting speed.... wich was slow to begin with!

-If this nerf is due to overpowered warlocks in PvP then NERF THEM THERE!!! NOT IN THE NORMAL GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are squishy as it is, it's not fair to take away what little power we do have over the field!

-we didnt need that casting time debuff! IT WAS SLOW TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!
-we did not need that Matk debuff and skill debuff or spell debuff!! those were our only Redeeming qualities!! Warlock will never be a balanced class!! WARLOCK WILL NEVER BE A BALLANCED CLASS!!! W-A-R-L-O-C-K WILL NEVER BE A B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D CLASS!!!!!
If we dont kill things fast enough, we die. end of story. that was the purpose of this class, to be a quickdraw type class that you either kill everything around you or they converge on you and kill you!!

UNDO WHAT YOU DID TO THEM! Please!!!!! :)
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#17 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:33 PM

Cmoota, you're not actually referring to the skill balance patch, but renewal in general, aren't you? This patch did make skills more useful by increasing durations(rec. spell, TV balls) and cutting cooldowns(Comet, reading spellbook). Statuses got a buff which is big for us. For now, that's what I know, and hopefully all of these nerfs affecting the classes that took away our damage role in a party will start to be favorable to our class.

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 15 December 2011 - 02:40 PM.

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#18 Cmoota

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:18 PM

It wasn't just our class that was effected! by the way I have a baby warlock so I took this rather personal!

Can you imagine the raised difficulty for Warlock to be characters to become a warlock? spell damage was nerfed all together except the basic spells like fire bolt and such... but the increase in casting time is going to kill peoples chances!

now UNLESS they will change your job to warlock for free by submitting a ticket (especially baby wizards) I don't think people will really have much success on the warlock test! Its just too darn hard for how much they nerfed casting time and Matk!

We didnt need casting time to be longer! we needed it to be shorter! Wizards are practically the most useless class in the game right now! even more so with this NERF!!!

And now warlocks! I don't care for the side effects buff! it wont matter if you cant cast fast enough to capitalize upon it!

RKs and Warlocks didnt need this! and Priest of all things!!!! WHY NERF A PRIESTS CASTING TIME WHEN WE NEED MORE OF THEM NOT FEWER!!!! THANKS GRAVITY!!

Maybe you might make people a tad more happy if instead of nerfing every little thing that seems SLIGHTLY unfair to others, make it fair by raising everyone elses abilities, hp, and whatnot! otherwise you will have a bunch of REALLY unhappy players!!!

Mind you, before the nerf took place, I Barely managed to make it to baby warlock... now I'll be alone forever on my server......... Sniffle.... :)

I really dont want to quit... but I can't even have fun anymore... I worked hard on my baby warlock, shes now lvl 127/34!
this nerf makes me feel like all my effort was for nothing... :D :rofl: :thx:

I almost wanted to quit after this.... oh and have you seen the HUGE decrease in players since the balance? maybe thats a sign of what I basically pointed out! Dont lower everyone to the weakest characters lvl! raise everyone and give them their rightful purposes! True balance lies in not nerfing every damn thing in sight just because a bunch of "WOE'ers" complain, rather fix the WOE problems and DONT HOIST IT ON PEOPLE WHO JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN!!! Warlocks used to be fun... now it seems they are both Squishy, slow and weak... :p_cry:

Edited by Cmoota, 15 December 2011 - 03:20 PM.

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#19 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:42 PM

Okay if this is just about casting times, the GMs have said they're changing back to the custom times they had from kRO. The Balance patch overrode those custom changes so they have to set them again. Also, you didn't read my post, I can tell.

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 15 December 2011 - 03:43 PM.

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#20 Cmoota

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:35 PM

Okay if this is just about casting times, the GMs have said they're changing back to the custom times they had from kRO. The Balance patch overrode those custom changes so they have to set them again. Also, you didn't read my post, I can tell.

No I read your post... just really mad...
I spent so much time on my baby... ;~; Casting time is just one of the things I'm mad about, I dont give a damn about status effects as enemies have plenty of immunities to them later on and that renders those spells sorta useless! that and spells that used to be our lvling tools now debuffed to such a weak lvl, all im saying is we lost our main purpose! if warlocks were buffed in the status effect department and debuffed greatly in the damage department then how is that going to attract people to the game?! Warlocks were good BEFORE the darn Fake "balance" patch... yes I said fake because you dont LOWER everyone down to the weakest classes lvl! then we would barely stand a chance against MvPs and such! yes we are getting an hp bonus and I hope the actual patch restores so much about us that was actually good!
It does our class no good to have such a damage decrease!

This is my character and that being said I have every RIGHT to argue!

Server: Yggdrasil
Character: Ellenor Niflianos
Class: Baby Warlock
Level: 127/34
Gear: +7 Gemini Diadem, Aria Elven ears, Ninja scroll,+4 Immune Nidhoggurs, +4 PecoPeco Diabolus Robes, Platinum Shield, +9 Piercing staff/+8 Staff of destruction of ignoring, Soul Enchanted Diabolus boots, Medal of Honor, Nile Rose Under a Cast, Heal clip, Teleport belt

You can imagine how much time and effort Ive spent on my character plus how much support my friends gave me, so you can see why I would be pissed off!
All I can say is, STOP NERFING THINGS!!! Your making me rethink spending another dollar on this game.... I wont leave it, but I won't DO anything in it considering how badly we got nerfed!
Status effects are a plus but Im only noticing my Warlocks deaths have utterly incresed DESPITE all the time and effort I put into her... :)
I read your comment... but it makes no difference, they screwed this class over ROYALLY from experiance ingame...

That and the effort it took me to BECOME a baby warlock makes it even MORE important to me! My baby warlock is very special to me because of how hard the job change was for her... you want to make the status effect build work? Erase all status immunities the enemies have and just give them status resistances. that or give us back our power!

Edited by Cmoota, 15 December 2011 - 04:41 PM.

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#21 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

Cmoota, no offense, but baby classes have their own problems. For Warlocks, I believe things were much worse without this patch and I've been waiting for it. This may detract some people from agreeing with me, but I'm more than ready to try a wizard class in another game because of these long term issues, not this patch. That being said, this patch has made some major things better about the class.
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#22 Cmoota

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 05:13 PM

... No offense? Do you have any idea how badly the damage was nerfed?! I got killed by HARPIES!!! of all the enemies, HARPIES!! Status effects are NOT MY CONCERN!! no offense to you, you can HAVE your status effects but LEAVE the SPELL POWER ALONE!!! Its our only survival tool!!
AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BABY AND AN ADULT? A baby doesnt get soul extract or Mystic Amp, our stat limit is 108 wich anyone hardly goes above 100 anyways... and our HP and SP are halved! THATS the ONLY difference! still the same gear! still the same MATK, so dont give me the whole issue that babies have their own problems is a result of a classes nerfs killing the class altogether!! if that's the case then EXPECT ALOT MORE DEATHS!! EVEN AS AN ADULT!

Perhaps they need to install a what kind of spellcaster do you wanna be type thing in this game... Status or damage. I'm SURE they can pull that off! THEN ALL OUR issues can be resolved!

And then I wouldn't be making such a big fuss! What you want, verses what other people want differ! so if anything they need a patch to branch the skills according the the preference of the Caster type!

Edited by Cmoota, 15 December 2011 - 05:16 PM.

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#23 Gigahertz2011

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 05:42 PM

Status OR damage? You must have missed this post:

I was just in PvP, inflicting statues like stone and frozen and then doing double the damage on players. I managed to kill a GX, a ranger, and one RK, and I'm still a noob WL.

EDIT - statuses inflict earth 1 and water 1, so actually 150% fire and 175% wind.

And what do you mean our damage was nerfed?

Edited by Gigahertz2011, 15 December 2011 - 05:57 PM.

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#24 TsukishiroSayuki

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:51 PM

I managed to kill a GX, a ranger, and one RK


A noob GX, and/or GX that was siting there afk/attacking other people.
Ranger.... no coments.
RK that could make me impressed.

And PvP never where any concern. You can use phen/blood Buterfly/Orlean Gown

I've been doing 15k ~ 20k to players on PvP with release CL w/o buffs and just brynhild... against 50% demi human resistance, so the nerf for CL is barely noticeable...


HE call Brynhild, that cost billions, JUST like its a ease thing to get like a knife[4] at last that is the way i understand it.
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#25 Cmoota

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:58 PM

Perhaps it just seems that way... perhaps the slow casting time got to my head since , well... I consider my baby warlock my main... but Frost misty and jack frost do seem to have been nerfed... :glomp:

I had some time to cool down, its really hard to get me riled up about something... I hope they fix the casting time "very soon"! :glomp:
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