59 replies to this topic

[ultra39]

unless it's already been fixed (haven't tested it again since they patched sakray), dsl is useless regardless of the success rate. while it's supposed to have a 5 second minimum duration, targets with high int recovered almost instantly. and since it still can't be used outside of pvp maps, i haven't been able to test to see if the skill would be valid for pve purposes.

the biggest issue i'm having with severe rainstorm's new formula, is that it pretty much forces you to grab both high dex and agi to make the skill worth using. there's also no reason to grab level 5 other than to keep the skill from doing even less damage than it already is. for spreading status effects, you'd be better off just grabbing level 1 for a lower cooldown time and lower sp cost.

going off of an earlier test i did, let's say a fresh lvl.100 wanderer/maestro grabbed rainstorm 5 and has a total of 150 dex / 120 agi / 60 luk. no base level modifier to help the damage there, so it's going entirely off of stats at that point. that alone ends up being a 370 point difference in damage. taking into account the total number of hits, it ends up being a 4437 damage difference. while the test was done using only a normal bow and regular arrows, the damage numbers still aren't taking into account enemy defenses. add in that no one is going to have stats like that at that level, and that rainstorm still costs 120sp per use, the skill becomes hard to use and/or even completely useless to some.

[Clogon]

And yes, Dances with Wargs is a HUGE buff to warg skills. Every performer up to 7 addes 50% more damage. I was doing 20K warg bites in porings with a regular level 1 bow and arrows. 7 performers would push it to 45K and more if my ranger was actually geared. Warg Strike did about 14K.

Damn 50%? wow. That's pretty imba then. With 7 performers I'd be 1shotting everyone with Warg Bite!

[ultra39]

i recall reading something about it being able to be used outside of pvp maps, but i'm drawing a blank as to where i read that. so it's entirely possible that it isn't part of the intended changes to the skill after all. as for the 5 second minimum duration, it's stated on the skill formula documentation, so that's a discrepancy that i think still needs to be pointed out.

with these current changes, there's absolutely no reason to grab the skill at all, other than as a prerequisite. and i wish i didn't even have to drop that one single point for the prerequisite either. it almost feels like they first made the new duration reduced by int, then changed frozen and stone curse statuses to work off of mdef, and completely forgot to go back and make deep sleep reduced by mdef instead of int. my cynicism is telling me they probably took one look at it, then said screw it and laughed it off since kRO seems hellbent on making performer classes useless... wanderers anyway. maestros always have strings to slave with at least.

[Akin]

i recall reading something about it being able to be used outside of pvp maps, but i'm drawing a blank as to where i read that. so it's entirely possible that it isn't part of the intended changes to the skill after all. as for the 5 second minimum duration, it's stated on the skill formula documentation, so that's a discrepancy that i think still needs to be pointed out.

with these current changes, there's absolutely no reason to grab the skill at all, other than as a prerequisite. and i wish i didn't even have to drop that one single point for the prerequisite either. it almost feels like they first made the new duration reduced by int, then changed frozen and stone curse statuses to work off of mdef, and completely forgot to go back and make deep sleep reduced by mdef instead of int. my cynicism is telling me they probably took one look at it, then said screw it and laughed it off since kRO seems hellbent on making performer classes useless... wanderers anyway. maestros always have strings to slave with at least.

You didn't imagine it my man...it's from doddler's translation:
Deep Sleep Lullaby

- Changed to be centered around the caster.
- Skill range changed. (11x11 / 13x13 / 15x15 / 17x17 / 19x19)
- Skill success rate changed.
- Stats reduce the duration time.
- Deep Sleep can be removed by a Bishop's Laura Ramus, a Sura's Cure, and a wanderer/minstrel's Sound of Destruction.
- Can be used on all maps.


I've never heard of that 5 second minimum duration thing though.

[lainee]

I've never heard of that 5 second minimum duration thing though.

was from the current translation of skill description change and formula

Duration: (10 + 2 * Skill Level) - {(Target�??s Base Level / 20) + (Target�??s Base INT / 20)}] seconds.

Minimum of 5 second duration.

Success Chance: [(Skill Level x 4) + (Voice Lessons Skill Level x 2) + (Caster�??s Base Level / 15) + (Caster�??s Job Level / 5)] %

Edited by lainee, 13 December 2011 - 07:39 AM.

[dazze]

We should find another class now. Gravity just made our class useless.

[asayuu]

Do you people want me to make a big topic about our uselessness? and then ask to be pinned /gg

I am brainstorming. Without AGI, therefore the damage is low as hell.

[leobut]

I miss Severe Rainstorm.... Its worthless now.... Im giving up on that char....

[Elly]

Fix Arrow Vulcan.. Please ! The cast time went back to it's original kRO setting.

[leobut]

Arrow Vulcan basicly turns worthless once wanderer or maestro... Its Severe Rainstorm that needs to be fixed... The damage is pathetic now...

[iCandy]

Performer class in renewal sucks... period!

[asayuu]

Fix Arrow Vulcan.. Please ! The cast time went back to it's original kRO setting.

Arrow Vulcan is useless, even with the custom cast time. Use it until you can't oneshot nothing more. Then switch back to Double Strafe. SR and Reverberation were supposed to be its replacements. But both are either nerfed and/or unreliable after patch... So...

[ultra39]

i've had 80 base agi before the patch, and haven't changed any stats or skills yet. with rainstorm's old formula, i'd be getting somewhere around 485% damage with rainstorm. now, i'm only getting about 320%, roughly 65% of the damage i used to be able to do. while i think i can manage with that, the major issue is why make things harder for the lower level performers? why nerf a leveling skill when it didn't need to be touched? i don't recall severe rainstorm capable of such amazing and OP damage that you could solo something like bio3 with it, or take down MvPs like they were nothing. it makes as much sense as nerfing the pve skills of suras instead of balancing out their OP pvp skills. suras are being balanced by making lvling harder so that there aren't as many to spam 1-hit kill skills in pvp? way to go with that backwards logic, kRO. except, when were performers ever that good to warrant applying that backwards logic to them?

going back to rainstorm...

i also find it extremely asinine that the new formula doesn't include something like a job level bonus to help alleviate the damage nerf, and that you're heavily penalized for not maxing out the skill. get level 5 to do 100% of the skill's normal damage... does any other skill work like this? i love how kRO has no -_-ing clue how to balance anything.

[asayuu]

i've had 80 base agi before the patch, and haven't changed any stats or skills yet. with rainstorm's old formula, i'd be getting somewhere around 485% damage with rainstorm. now, i'm only getting about 320%, roughly 65% of the damage i used to be able to do. while i think i can manage with that, the major issue is why make things harder for the lower level performers? why nerf a leveling skill when it didn't need to be touched? i don't recall severe rainstorm capable of such amazing and OP damage that you could solo something like bio3 with it, or take down MvPs like they were nothing. it makes as much sense as nerfing the pve skills of suras instead of balancing out their OP pvp skills. suras are being balanced by making lvling harder so that there aren't as many to spam 1-hit kill skills in pvp? way to go with that backwards logic, kRO. except, when were performers ever that good to warrant applying that backwards logic to them?

going back to rainstorm...

i also find it extremely asinine that the new formula doesn't include something like a job level bonus to help alleviate the damage nerf, and that you're heavily penalized for not maxing out the skill. get level 5 to do 100% of the skill's normal damage... does any other skill work like this? i love how kRO has no -_-ing clue how to balance anything.

Ranger Traps. They need Trap Mastery in order to deal ANY damage. Stupid, no? >.<

The current [newly added] SR formula could continue if SR was a 10-level skill. My FS [~= 130 total DEX, (10) total AGI] wanderer deals 1.8k/hit. With OAB. On level 150. ON SPORES. I'm sure I could bypass 4k/hit with the same stat/gearset.

Also, talking about Trap Mastery.

Did you noticed Rangers spend 5 job points to get 300 max sp?, while we performers spend 10 job points to get 150 max sp? THEY DON'T EVEN NEED THOSE MAX SP. ARROW STORM COSTS 48, AND TRAPS COST WHAT? 12?

Edited by asayuu, 14 December 2011 - 05:45 PM.

[ultra39]

kRO must really hate archer classes. they just hate the performers more now, huh?

[leobut]

Wanderers NEED there Severe Rainstorm back to normal! I use to be able to solo with my RWH since my SR was doing decent damage... Now I can bearly make it in nogg with an archbishop! Just put SR back to normal.

[Channa]

I don't understand why they give us skills that work and then they break them. And on top of that about 1/3 of the skills in our skills trees are useless in the first place. Sometimes more than 1/3.

I had wanted to test out deep sleep and such in woe tonight, but was disappointed that was canceled. Not much liking the idea of not being able to help wake my guildmates up anymore unless i have that the song of despair, and another performer in the party. And with all these nerfs it's going to be even harder to get ppl to play them in woe. But from the sounds of is deep sleep doesn't even last long anyway.

[asayuu]

^ This.

Changes are for all classes... good or bad they are here already same as when renewal came live. Just get use to it and learn about your class.

No offense here, but... I would suggest to the Mr. "Wizard" to play, and level to at least 110, a post-balance performer... But a dancer class, not a bard. Using Strings as your way to level is unfair. ^^

We learned a lot about the class. The class is broken, and to "help", kRO sent bugged [unnaccurate] files to us, and added weird bugs [like "Slow Grace's ASPD penalty no more stacking with Gloomy"].

Wanderers NEED there Severe Rainstorm back to normal! I use to be able to solo with my RWH since my SR was doing decent damage... Now I can bearly make it in nogg with an archbishop! Just put SR back to normal.

I can live without Severe Rainstorm. But where is the backup plan? Example: RKs lost Clashing Spiral, but Hundred Spears was buffed. RKs also lost Storm Blast, but Crush Strike got buffed to replace. A performer lost Rainstorm... And got what to recover? Nothing!

Solutions for this [Note: This is only to solve "Performer's DPS problem"]:

1- Turn Great Echo to a solo skill, and the "extra performers option" start from the second performer. [Then adding 7 performers would be a +3200% bonus instead of a +1600%] Or...
2- Drastically reduce Great Echo's cooldown from 5 seconds to 1 second. Without extra performers, it has the same attack mod as Arrow Vulcan, but without weapon restriction [aka you can use OAB+Steels]... YES THE SKILL IS ONLY A 9X9 AOE ARROW VULCAN.
3- Remove the split damage of Reverberation, and: Extend activation area to 3x3 and/or extend AOE to 5x5. [This would transform Reverb to a version of Fire Trap with 2s VCT and 1s delay though. And with "Detonate" (Dominion Impulse)]
4- Make Gloomy Shyness affect one or two of the performer skills, and be able to be self-casted. Arrow Vulcan, Reverberation, Severe Rainstorm, Metallic Sound, Great Echo. Make your pick.
5- Revert Rainstorm to the old formula. Why not? Or... Make some formula which favours low levels and support builds. Why not something like [SR * (Base level + AGI + DEX) / 5]. It would be the same 450 as a 150 dex/150 agi performer has at level 150. But at low levels and non-combat builds, the formula is not so horrible.
6- Lower SR's SP cost and/or cooldown. Arrow Storm deals higher damage and costs almost 3 times less.

Of course, those suggestions are not supposed to be put at once. Choose the best two of those and here we go!

For me. 2, 3 and 4 are the best.

I don't understand why they give us skills that work and then they break them. And on top of that about 1/3 of the skills in our skills trees are useless in the first place. Sometimes more than 1/3.

I had wanted to test out deep sleep and such in woe tonight, but was disappointed that was canceled. Not much liking the idea of not being able to help wake my guildmates up anymore unless i have that the song of despair, and another performer in the party. And with all these nerfs it's going to be even harder to get ppl to play them in woe. But from the sounds of is deep sleep doesn't even last long anyway.

For a performer, 3/4 of our skills are useless. /pat

Don't worry, people won't be slept for long [yes a bug is here]. And I believe 80% of the deep sleeps will fail with the bugged patch. And if thing get dicey, a certain skill got buffed to be your only choice to save your guildmates from DSL. Circle of Nature.

I don't even believe Circle of Nature is good for something now. Heal Deep Sleeps and Sirens.

~~~~

Look how cute.

Deep Sleep for Performers:

Success Chance: [(Skill Level x 4) + (Voice Lessons Skill Level x 2) + (Caster's Base Level / 15) + (Caster's Job Level / 5)] %
Duration: (10 + 2 * Skill Level) - {(Target's Base Level / 20) + (Target's Base INT / 20)}] seconds.
Minimum of 5 second duration.


Deep Sleep for Sorcerers:

Success chance: [(15 + 5 * Skill Level) + ( Caster's INT / 5 ) + ( Caster's Job Level / 5 ) - ( Target's INT / 6 ) - ( Target's LUK / 10 )] %
Duration: [(6 + 2 * Skill Level) - {( Target's Base Level / 20 ) + ( Target's Base INT / 40 )}]

But it seems the sorcerer's version is not [as] bugged as ours.

Edited by asayuu, 14 December 2011 - 08:15 PM.

[ultra39]

i'd rather they allow chorus skills to be used solo, but at only half their normal effect(s). with only a handful of chorus skills that are actually useful, it would give performers a little extra utility and versatility that should be expected from a class that was originally designed with supporting in mind.

hell, at that point, restore severe rainstorm's old damage formula back... but change it into a chorus skill. so, half damage when using it solo. that'd probably still end up being more damage for most people than what rainstorm is currently doing. then add the extra performer bonuses. 2 people = gets its original damage back. full party, make it something like what dance with wargs does for rangers.
ATK [(Skill Level x 10) x Number of Maestro/Wanderer in party(Maximum of 7)] %
at least that way, a group of performers can party up and essentially give a giant middle finger back at gravity.

[Hoeee]

Advantage of the skill balance to maestro/wanderer:

1: reverberation can cast up to 13 times
2: song of despair has 3x3 aoe effect.
3: circling nature has more healing effect
4: Song of destruction has a aoe effect instead of single target
5: Siren Voice success chance +5%

Disadvantage of the skill balance to maestro/wanderer

1: Severe rainstorm damage decreases
2: Gloomy Shyness no more useful because of the damage of clashing spiral decreases
3: Deep Sleep Lullaby less chance to activate and last less duration
4: Song of despair no longer can place beneath the target
5: Saturday night fever and destruction song have a huge cooldown


In pvp/woe, although reverberation can cast more, but how do we lock the target? I have try to use song of despair to lock them but they can still skill and run with snap, front slide, back slide, etc. Without deep sleep, maestro and wanderer are useless in pvp/woe. Siren doesn't help much as it will end immediately when targets receive damage or at the end of skill duration.

Tn PvE, severe rainstorm only does 2k-4k per hit with oab + steel arrow + lvl 5 sr + 120dex/agi + 64 luk + 150/50 base/job lvl comparing last time 4k-6k. For the low level player, it on does 1k-2k per hit. Please lower the sp cost or do more hit of severe rainstorm instead of just decreasing the damage. Gloomy are useless though because of the cs damage decreases. I don't want just become a string-slaves in the party. It is damn boring that we are not killer and the movement speed with string are slow.

In the Ragnarok Database, http://ropd.info/?na...ss+distribution . Among the population all the classes in Valkyrie, Bard/Dancer classes is the least population. With the skill balance 14.1, there will be no more fun of making a bard/dancer class and there are less people use bard/dancer classes as their main character. Chorus skill also become useless if there are less meastro/wanderer in Valkyrie server.

Edited by Hoeee, 14 December 2011 - 09:03 PM.

[asayuu]

SOLO CHORUSES! Yes. I don't know. Make a chorus blow some Throat Lozenges [or "Neck Protection Candies", as the error message says when you try to use Despair or Great Echo without them] if the character is singing solo.

This would be a crazily good buff to supports. I don't know if it is enough though. But being able to keep permanent Song of Mana solo~~~~~~ <3

[ultra39]

for purposes of balance, if solo choruses were allowed, i don't believe having a cost of only a Throat Lozenge (or a few) would be reasonable. the main reason being, at that point, what's the point of having that second performer in the party? to remove the item cost? sinking melody and dance with wargs would also seem a little too powerful in their original state if used as a solo chorus.

also assuming that solo choruses were allowed, i still like my idea for severe rainstorm. it'd be like that great echo party we were trying out, only better. imagine all the rainstorms being spammed with a damage boost like that... wonder if people would cry over that?

[odey]

and i thought maestros sucked in the first place.....now litteraly all there good for is strings and breaking emp. leave it to gravity to make a balance patch make the game even more unbalanced

[gicko]

I'm hoping that our beloved iRO staff will bring back Severe Rainstormto its old formula ASAP and I know how it feel that our only decent leveling skill is nerfed its so sad. I wanna ask you ODA if there will be a chance to bring back the old formula of our beloved skill?

[Mogar]

People are overreacting about SR. Yes it's weaker, but I still use it and kill fine with it (of course the mvps I soloed are more difficult now).