108 replies to this topic

[Miname]

Totally disagree. Back in thq, I didn't even spend more than a penny. Now with the big wheel and mix board, it has brought out the gambler side of everyone due to the stats.

As for the dbl lvl event. Not so bad. WoW players buy capped accounts all the time. Back then it was 200-400 depending what class, even more depending what type of items you offer.

Zzz I wonder if I spend 200 dollars, I can dbl a lvl 20, then dbl again for lvl 80 lol. If only I was rich.

Are you literally comparing WoW to DS? Not only that, but account selling in WoW is illegal.

Edited by Miname, 17 December 2011 - 03:48 PM.

[Kazu731]

Totally disagree. Back in thq, I didn't even spend more than a penny. Now with the big wheel and mix board, it has brought out the gambler side of everyone due to the stats.

As for the dbl lvl event. Not so bad. WoW players buy capped accounts all the time. Back then it was 200-400 depending what class, even more depending what type of items you offer.

Zzz I wonder if I spend 200 dollars, I can dbl a lvl 20, then dbl again for lvl 80 lol. If only I was rich.

Why would you spend 100 dollars to get from 20 to 40?

[HavocInfinity]

Well he's probably gonna need to spend (more than) $200 to pimp out that baddy of a lv80 anyway lols.

[Rimmy]

Just a reminder, please keep discussion about games created by other publishers out of the WarpPortal forums, as per forum rules. Thanks!

[Kazu731]

I am not upset because I don't spend money on a video game. I spend money on it.

You are missing the entire point.

Edited by Rimmy, 17 December 2011 - 06:40 PM.

[Ethernal]

why don't you sell time machines wp

[Luckywhiterabbit]

I think you THQ people just don't understand Warp Portal XD

As a player of Ragnarok online, just let me say that the kind of stuff they're doing here is tame compared to the point-buying events that get held regularly in that game, although admittedly they do not blatantly sell levels or EXP...

[StormHaven]

I think you THQ people just don't understand Warp Portal XD

As a player of Ragnarok online, just let me say that the kind of stuff they're doing here is tame compared to the point-buying events that get held regularly in that game, although admittedly they do not blatantly sell levels or EXP...

Yea compared to RO most our point buying events are nothing (I wub my snakehat), but back to DS.

[Hastur]

First off, I would like to thank you all for your feedback, a special thank you to all those who expressed their opinions and feedback without resorting to name-calling and witch burnings.

@Maronu, thank you for your thought out and well written rant. I'm sure we'll be taking several points from it to include in the feedback for the event.


Now several people have reasons as to why they do not enjoy this event. Now I'm going to try to address as many of the concerns the best i can, with the information I am allowed to discuss. (I cant go into too much detail regarding future events or content.)

First off, money. First and foremost we are a business and one of our priorities is to make money. Not just to keep the server going, but paying those that maintain and run events, and paying developers to create content, but also how to keep the game free to play. People that pay money in the IM help to keep the server open for all to use (event he free players). This event is not driven by money, we have reasons for doing this event but making money is always the ultimate goal of any company.

Some things to keep in mind:

1. This is a short term event and it wont last forever. There maybe a sudden surge of high level player which after the event period will slow back down to its usual pace.

2. We need more high level players to get more feedback to push devs for content. Not only does more high level players mean more feedback but it will also help to push the devs to create more high level content and balance changes.
-At this time we have very few Dragonkins at high level so there are many, holes in gathering information on how they will perform in high level PvP, and emporia tactics.
-More dragonkin = more feedback.
-Yes we understand that skipping levels can leave gaps in the feedback, and this is information we will gather with time. At current high level and PvP content are two of the most discussed topics in Dragon Saga. PvP being one of the most popular aspects of the game. We want to get this information and content push moving, so the faster we collect this data the better.
- There are future plans to make change to PvP and Emporia, this is a great way for us to gather this information for those changes.

3. We aren't dying. Far from, we have plans with GG that extend far into the next year, why make plans if we were going away? You don't have to worry about packing your bags as your characters aren't going anywhere.

Give us some time and things will get back to normal. If anything we will use this event to improve the game for all, especially those experience high level players who want more out of the game.

Again i want to thank you all for keeping this civil, we definitely listen to your feedback and from the feedback so far, looks like we are going to need to make some pretty severe changes before running this event again(or any similar event) in the future.

[Kazu731]

I understand all of what you are explaining, but these tactics are turning off many well-established as well as potential players.
It's really only catering to a certain group of players who quite frankly, you do not want any kind of reliable feedback from.

I accidentally -1'd you instead of +1'ing you. Only because you used my words.

On that note, I can see where both Hastur is coming from in this case and you as well. I realize many people are very much against this event and I've spoken against it's favor before. However, I don't think it's fair to tell WarpPortal just who and who isn't reliable feedback, and perhaps it may have been a sort of grand assumption when we made use of the argument that "the players will not learn to play their class;"

Consider your point on "that" group of players that we "do not want feedback from." On a personal standpoint, I do agree. This would be the group that, for clarification, will outspend other players and achieve higher output rather than gain a natural appreciation of skill in playing the game. That being said, is it not slightly contradictory to claim that the level-jump characters will not learn their classes when we're all well aware that the only ones who will be taking full advantage of this event would be the ones with a heavy hand in the cash area as well? However, you could contest this by saying that it applauds and encourages a lack of depth in terms of class--but in terms of ideology it's a bit difficult to gauge practical feedback.

TO BE CLEAR, I'm dropping out of this subject. I find it hard to push for any one answer when I can see both sides of this argument and feel very strongly for both of them. Please don't eat me, Maronu.

Edited by Kazu731, 18 December 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[Miname]

Partially quoted you by accident, deleted post.

[Maronu]

TO BE CLEAR, I'm dropping out of this subject. I find it hard to push for any one answer when I can see both sides of this argument and feel very strongly for both of them. Please don't eat me, Maronu.

I'd be more worried about Hasteur eating you. Loving his signature. #1

[Mosz]

So you changed F7 so there wouldnt be too man high lvl noobs, now you say you need high lvls urgently, even at the cost of complete noobism... i am just speechless

[Kazu731]

So you changed F7 so there wouldnt be too man high lvl noobs, now you say you need high lvls urgently, even at the cost of complete noobism... i am just speechless

That was never the official reason for the F7 changes.

[Ethernal]

I have obviously lots of doubts about this event, but i want to hear from you guys (players) how it will be possible to explore your class and give feedback and opinions in PvP and the same to balance issues and blabla IF YOU DON'T COUNT WITH THE LEVELBYYOURSELF FACTOR and don't use your skills and don't event know the gameplay of your class? that's one of the main reasons that wp is doing this right? to have more end-game players and give feedback about dragonkins and other classes and make solutions to balance issues; but what's the point if you lose 40 LEVELS OF GAMEPLAY!! THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES FROM YOUR CLASS. I just want to hear opinions and the answers to this questions if you guys have em, thanks.

Edited by Ethernal, 19 December 2011 - 11:19 AM.

[Kazu731]

I have obviously lots of doubts about this event, but i want to hear from you guys (players) how it will be possible to explore your class and give feedback and opinions in PvP and the same to balance issues and blabla IF YOU DON'T COUNT WITH THE LEVELBYYOURSELF FACTOR and don't use your skills and don't event know the gameplay of your class? that's one of the main reasons that wp is doing this right? to have more end-game players and give feedback about dragonkins and other classes and make solutions to balance issues; but what's the point if you lose 40 LEVELS OF GAMEPLAY!! THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES FROM YOUR CLASS. I just want to hear opinions and the answers to this questions if you guys have em, thanks.

Who do you think are the ones participating in the event? It's not the people who are brand new to level 40.

SHUTTING UP FOR REAL NOW

[Ethernal]

Who do you think are the ones participating in the event? It's not the people who are brand new to level 40.

SHUTTING UP FOR REAL NOW

TOMATO POTATO!

[Nolanvoid]

I have obviously lots of doubts about this event, but i want to hear from you guys (players) how it will be possible to explore your class and give feedback and opinions in PvP and the same to balance issues and blabla IF YOU DON'T COUNT WITH THE LEVELBYYOURSELF FACTOR and don't use your skills and don't event know the gameplay of your class? that's one of the main reasons that wp is doing this right? to have more end-game players and give feedback about dragonkins and other classes and make solutions to balance issues; but what's the point if you lose 40 LEVELS OF GAMEPLAY!! THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES FROM YOUR CLASS. I just want to hear opinions and the answers to this questions if you guys have em, thanks.

From our own observation and from speaking to several users and guild leaders in-game, the format of defense appears to be changing in Emporia Wars due to the Dragonkin classes. Since there are not very many high level ones that participate in Emporia Wars, we cannot determine whether they are causing a complete imbalance or whether it is just a change that has not been well countered due to the number of them playing. If that causes a change, does that mean other areas need additional changes as well? Do gears, stats, and skills need additional balancing due to this? The developers want to and also intend to make changes that may be fairly game changing, but they need to know whether there aspects that they may be missing. Though New Origins was at the beginning of September, it has not been enough time to get sufficient feedback regarding the changes.

[Ethernal]

From our own observation and from speaking to several users and guild leaders in-game, the format of defense appears to be changing in Emporia Wars due to the Dragonkin classes. Since there are not very many high level ones that participate in Emporia Wars, we cannot determine whether they are causing a complete imbalance or whether it is just a change that has not been well countered due to the number of them playing. If that causes a change, does that mean other areas need additional changes as well? Do gears, stats, and skills need additional balancing due to this? The developers want to and also intend to make changes that may be fairly game changing, but they need to know whether there aspects that they may be missing. Though New Origins was at the beginning of September, it has not been enough time to get sufficient feedback regarding the changes.

f-fine

[Kazu731]

I'm going to just ignore my own words for now because I can't help but not respond.

While I'm certainly willing to concede the argument against the Double Up event because, as I said, I can see it both ways, it seems hard for me to see the event as a vehicle for Dragonkin characters. Unless the event was specifically limited to Dragonkin characters--and in fact they were not allowed to participate in the beginning so I can't see it as a primary motivator--there's very little assurance that anyone will even participate using a Dragonkin character. Consider hypothetically that none of the 10 raffle winners and none of those who use the full 10,000 point auto-double even make use of it on anything other than a human character--there is zero outcome in that respect. However, I can see this point in the light of balancing all classes, and not just Dragonkin, but I can't see Dragonkin as being the focus of the event unless it was specifically created with them in mind, geared towards them, and allowed from the start.

I think that a much more fruitful solution, albeit a bit roundabout, would be a private testing server. Not many high level Dragonkin characters exist and 4/5 of the ones that do aren't used as "mains." They can be piloted by "expert" PvPers, sure, and definitely are, but the limited amount does not produce a fruitful amount of information regarding balancing, as you say. A private testing server comprised of the upper echelons of those who are well aware of the system and how it works, and perhaps with a handful of not-so-experts that would be asked to play Dragonkin characters, would place the magnifying glass on any balancing issues that come with the Dragonkin classes. By the "experts" I mean those that already have free pass to participate more highly in balancing discussions such as Rim, Yurai, StormHaven, et cetera--as seen by the many threads and discussions led by these users. It's hypothetical but it seems a far more efficient way to gauge the issue than an event that has had little focus on such matters from the start, and has little chance to effectively produce a significant number of Dragonkin users. Further, the changes to Defense in Emporia with regard to Dragonkin characters sounds a bit vague. What are these main issues we're testing for? Are we testing the waters on the amount of MP drained through a Summoner's Mana Burn, or are we trying to examine the high DPS that can be made use of through bugged Twin skills with no cooldowns? It's difficult for the playerbase to see this as a testing experiment.

EDIT: And for the love of god, do not think I am on your side, Ethernal, because I am not.

Edited by Kazu731, 19 December 2011 - 02:17 PM.

[Nolanvoid]

I'm going to just ignore my own words for now because I can't help but not respond.

While I'm certainly willing to concede the argument against the Double Up event because, as I said, I can see it both ways, it seems hard for me to see the event as a vehicle for Dragonkin characters. Unless the event was specifically limited to Dragonkin characters--and in fact they were not allowed to participate in the beginning so I can't see it as a primary motivator--there's very little assurance that anyone will even participate using a Dragonkin character. Consider hypothetically that none of the 10 raffle winners and none of those who use the full 10,000 point auto-double even make use of it on anything other than a human character--there is zero outcome in that respect. However, I can see this point in the light of balancing all classes, and not just Dragonkin, but I can't see Dragonkin as being the focus of the event unless it was specifically created with them in mind, geared towards them, and allowed from the start.

I think that a much more fruitful solution, albeit a bit roundabout, would be a private testing server. Not many high level Dragonkin characters exist and 4/5 of the ones that do aren't used as "mains." They can be piloted by "expert" PvPers, sure, and definitely are, but the limited amount does not produce a fruitful amount of information regarding balancing, as you say. A private testing server comprised of the upper echelons of those who are well aware of the system and how it works, and perhaps with a handful of not-so-experts that would be asked to play Dragonkin characters, would place the magnifying glass on any balancing issues that come with the Dragonkin classes. By the "experts" I mean those that already have free pass to participate more highly in balancing discussions such as Rim, Yurai, StormHaven, et cetera--as seen by the many threads and discussions led by these users. It's hypothetical but it seems a far more efficient way to gauge the issue than an event that has had little focus on such matters from the start, and has little chance to effectively produce a significant number of Dragonkin users. Further, the changes to Defense in Emporia with regard to Dragonkin characters sounds a bit vague. What are these main issues we're testing for? Are we testing the waters on the amount of MP drained through a Summoner's Mana Burn, or are we trying to examine the high DPS that can be made use of through bugged Twin skills with no cooldowns? It's difficult for the playerbase to see this as a testing experiment.

EDIT: And for the love of god, do not think I am on your side, Ethernal, because I am not.

It's not just for Dragonkin. That was my response for one of the reasons to respond to Ethernal. There are other factors as well and Hastur has covered them. Sorry for the misunderstanding if it came out that way.

[Kazu731]

I'm not trying to be confrontational and I really hope I don't sound that way, because you know I adore you guys. It just seemed that both points were very Dragonkin-centric and it made me feel a bit in the dark in terms of the Emporia and balancing issues related to them. Counter to this I do see its merit as an overall balancing system, especially in conjunction with future Emporia changes which has been brought up as being worked on right this very moment. In terms of feedback I do think it is also not as lethal as anyone may think, because those who participate in the event will be those with high-level experience to start with, rather than creating a new breed of inexperienced players--and certainly I don't doubt that at level 80 you can still gain a grasp of how your class works in terms of PvP and general playstyle.

That being said, I have always said that I think IM should indeed offer bonuses to a degree. Perhaps some would argue that the gap between the IM-users and non-IM-users is too far, but that's for other people to discuss. Barring the discussion on whether or not it's "selling levels" as has been brought up, I cannot help but feel a slight sour taste having leveled a Dragonkin character to 80 through effort only to see the opportunity arise for an auto-level-jump simply because I have never personally provided feedback on the class; but as I've said I can argue this event both ways and ultimately I do not think it's so bad. And on that note, perhaps more high level Jumeaux running around would help the Development team fix bugs sooner such as the Twin cooldown bug and the Kickball ATK increase bug. I can appreciate it in this respect.

[MicoJive]

i dont really understand why so many people are against this event. Most everyone commenting has maxed characters, so leveling shouldnt be a problem for that. If newer players are going to auto level to 80, that....SHOULD provide at least a brief increase in end game item sales, which would benefit those that are already at that content and farming it. Now if you are someone that is already at the cap, like myself for example, i see no reason that it would be a bad thing to get another high level. If you have someone 70+ it atleast shows you have spent the time already in leveling and *somewhat* know what you are doing and could get another 80 to play with to make the game at least somewhat fun for a little more time. Sorry that this is starting to get to a wall of text but oh well. I have read through all the other comments on this and it seems most people are complaining or asking questions without saying why they don't like it? The option is there for everyone, i think if it was something like 5k im for a chance to auto level people would cause problems if certain people won seeing it as a biased win.

[Ethernal]

EDIT: And for the love of god, do not think I am on your side, Ethernal, because I am not.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

k, I'm actually going to sit down and level my twin fighter now to help with SCIENCE. Good job guys.

(I'm already maining an infiltrator and 2nding an archer though leveling dragonkin seems hard and slow early on for some reason, ESPECIALLY summoner.