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SP Regen After GFist


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#26 Aeroku

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:10 PM

It's not just WoE, suras already dominate the MvP scence and now you just want this to be changed so you can still deal damage while you wait for the next Gfist execution.

what can we really use to deal damage with while waiting for gfist delay?

goh is terrible. it does nothing great, it can be fleeable, and on mvp's with 6-7 digit hp, the damage is pretty unfair even with low hp. KA does nothing without string. and also fleeable. RB has delay, and it doesn't do great damage. LR? don't even want to go to that.

then you look at low end mvp vs high end mvp. on high end mvp, waiting for fist delay itself (even being able to restore sp) will kill you (ifrit, valk rand, satan) unless you spam ygg (which every class can do). on low end mvp? no effect since fist would kill them in 1 hit whether or not you have any type of delay.

Edited by Aeroku, 16 December 2011 - 01:11 PM.

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#27 IronPlushy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:11 PM

I always stood up for Sura's I main one, and tried to get people to understand counters, rather than ask for nerfs.

Now a balance comes that restores certain counters, but massivley restricts the Suras main killing skill.

Suras are overpowered and then they were nerfed, they're still powerful, and they think they should be OP again.

Edited by Inubashiri, 16 December 2011 - 08:48 PM.
refrain from the language please.

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#28 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:11 PM

what can we really use to deal damage with while waiting for gfist delay?

goh is terrible. it does nothing great, it can be fleeable, and on mvp's with 6-7 digit hp, the damage is pretty unfair even with low hp. KA does nothing without string. and also fleeable. RB has delay, and it doesn't do great damage. LR? don't even want to go to that.

then you look at low end mvp vs high end mvp. on high end mvp, waiting for fist delay itself (even being able to restore sp) will kill you (ifrit, valk rand, satan) unless you spam ygg (which every class can do). on low end mvp? no effect since fist would kill them in 1 hit whether or not you have any type of delay.


Again very well said.
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#29 Xellie

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:11 PM

The thing that gets me is that there's always been this downside to Asura strike that was supposed to be in from day 1... but you've always been able to sp item or log to evade it, so now they're just trying harder to fix that?

It took wayyyyyy to long to reach this point and now it's retarded. I think suras should be a sitting duck after throwing about a million (literally) damage. Like I said you can speedpot or whatever, but 50 sp would be a fair comprimise, that's what..... a zen and 3 snaps?
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#30 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

Suras are overpowered and then they were nerfed, they're still powerful, and retards think they should be OP again.


I will just assume you did not read the main thread and are a complete Troll moving on.
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#31 Xellie

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

Suras are overpowered and then they were nerfed, they're still powerful, and retards think they should be OP again.


Watch your language, you haven't even played long enough to understand the downside to a pure gfist build anyway. There are (beleive it or not) more powerful things in game, and there have been worse skills.
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#32 IronPlushy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

I will just assume you did not read the main thread and are a complete Troll moving on.

Just because someone thinks you're an idiot doesn't make them a troll.
And mvps should not be one shotted by anyone
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#33 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:15 PM

It took wayyyyyy to long to reach this point and now it's retarded. I think suras should be a sitting duck after throwing about a million (literally) damage. Like I said you can speedpot or whatever, but 50 sp would be a fair comprimise, that's what..... a zen and 3 snaps?


Something like this would be great.

Or make it so that you can regen SP and place a Skill delay on other skills: So after GFist you can not use Fury, GoH, Gfist for 10-20-30 sec.

But atleast allow the Sura a chance to get away.
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#34 kite24

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:15 PM

you have to consider other changes as well. SW is changed and have its overflow damage fixed, so it will fully block gfist. other than that, it's just a single target, close aimed skill (2 cells). you can hide it, and people with DR/GR can block a lot of it (because im not just talking about megged sura as not everyone has god items)

and then you look at what a GX can do. they have literally better "GoH" than sura (yes really) and a very strong ctrl click attack that are unreduced in woe environment.

we're not asking much, not asking to remove the delay altogether. but at least tone it down to after-cast delay instead of sp recovery instead. imagine if you have a skill on a class that can be hided, blocked by SW, close range, single target, doesn't kill 100%, and then gets you a *10 sec global cooldown*. its pretty extreme.


It's a pre-rebirth skill that still owns to this day. At least let them have a big disadvantage (JUST FOR 10 SECONDS) after using it.

Edited by kite24, 16 December 2011 - 01:15 PM.

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#35 frankSG07

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:16 PM

Everyone has the right to express their thoughts,

Again, my only concern, please disable using SP pots during 10sec delay, its like, "hmm is it 10 sec yet, let me try using sp pots, nothing happen but u lost ur so pot, Lame .. "Seed is expensive u know, also light blue pots are coming out of my wallet.dont wanna waste it,

Also if this thread is bull sh_t to you, then dont bother posting ur comment.
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#36 Xellie

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:17 PM

Something like this would be great.

Or make it so that you can regen SP and place a Skill delay on other skills: So after GFist you can not use Fury, GoH, Gfist for 10-20-30 sec.

But atleast allow the Sura a chance to get away.


I beleive delays can only be global or specific. So you can have a long delay on fist itself, OR a long delay on all skills, but I don't think you can pick and choose.

Speed pots are as good as / better than snap for escaping tho, imo.
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#37 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:17 PM

Everyone has the right to express their thoughts,

Again, my only concern, please disable using SP pots during 10sec delay, its like, "hmm is it 10 sec yet, let me try using sp pots, nothing happen but u lost ur so pot, Lame .. "Seed is expensive u know, also light blue pots are coming out of my wallet.dont wanna waste it,

Also if this thread is bull sh_t to you, then dont bother posting ur comment.


I know I asked for people to not reply and make the thread like that in the OP. But Oh well.

Like you said this is a big problem as well, people use an item and it is waisted due to this delay.
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#38 Inubashiri

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:18 PM

This whole thread needs a cooldown, you can make your respective points without antagonizing one another.
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#39 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

I beleive delays can only be global or specific. So you can have a long delay on fist itself, OR a long delay on all skills, but I don't think you can pick and choose.

Speed pots are as good as / better than snap for escaping tho, imo.


Ah I thought they could target certain skills specifically since they can target sp regen specifically, That code should not be to complicated?

Again any Idea on kRO's setup? or is this Just an iRO thing?
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#40 IronPlushy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

Everyone has the right to express their thoughts,

Again, my only concern, please disable using SP pots during 10sec delay, its like, "hmm is it 10 sec yet, let me try using sp pots, nothing happen but u lost ur so pot, Lame .. "Seed is expensive u know, also light blue pots are coming out of my wallet.dont wanna waste it,

Also if this thread is bull sh_t to you, then dont bother posting ur comment.

Everyone has a right to express their thoughts, but if they think an idea is bull-_-, don't bother posting?
I'm running a monk right now, and I'm looking forward to being a sura, but this nerf brings much needed balance to the game, it is completely fair, you have snap, cursed circle, gates of hell, and guillotine fist, if you don't want the sp delay, don't use guillotine fist, it's not complicated.
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#41 frankSG07

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

This whole thread needs a cooldown, you can make your respective points without antagonizing one another.

Exactly! And whats your problem with retards?
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#42 Xellie

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:21 PM

Ah I thought they could target certain skills specifically since they can target sp regen specifically, That code should not be to complicated?

Again any Idea on kRO's setup? or is this Just an iRO thing?


don't quote me on it, but I'm sure this is in kRO since it was mentioned on irowiki's kRO patch notes threads. - that's how we knew it was coming.

afaik, our skills are identical to kROs right now, except they had a balance patch to balance the balance patch
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#43 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:22 PM

Thanks Xellie.

Edited by D111, 16 December 2011 - 01:22 PM.

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#44 frankSG07

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:23 PM

Everyone has a right to express their thoughts, but if they think an idea is bull-_-, don't bother posting?

Do I have to elaborate this to you?
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#45 Wanderer

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:23 PM

what can we really use to deal damage with while waiting for gfist delay?

goh is terrible. it does nothing great, it can be fleeable, and on mvp's with 6-7 digit hp, the damage is pretty unfair even with low hp. KA does nothing without string. and also fleeable. RB has delay, and it doesn't do great damage. LR? don't even want to go to that.

then you look at low end mvp vs high end mvp. on high end mvp, waiting for fist delay itself (even being able to restore sp) will kill you (ifrit, valk rand, satan) unless you spam ygg (which every class can do). on low end mvp? no effect since fist would kill them in 1 hit whether or not you have any type of delay.


I played monk and champions long enough to know your only competitor vs mvps was and still is biochemist/genetic, your 'nothing great' GoH can deal very decent damage in the order of Acid Bomb, while you deal 500k with Gfist a genetic gets a change during 10~15s to bomb an mvp and have a chance to win before the next gfist comes.

@D111 this change comes from kRO

http://forums.irowik...guillotine fist
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#46 Randalf

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:24 PM

I dunno, I think it's kind of fitting that the ultimate "RELEASE ALL OF YOUR POWER AT ONCE" strike leaves you severely debilitated afterwards. Puts some thought/preperation into when you should use it.

Since they (rightfully) murdered Clashing, it doesn't look like Trans/2nd class skills are immune to the fist of "balance". (Pun intended)

If it's WoE, I have little sympathy for Suras that are upset. "Use teamwork to overcome Suras!" has been a common chant to counter complaints, so now I guess Suras can use teamwork to protect themselves when they're vulnerable.

I'm a little more receptive to an MVP/PVE problem with this, but at the same time it'd be mitigated by simply having someone else tanking, right? Seems like the issue is you want to gfist (super all out attack blah blah blah) and then be able to run from any retaliation an enemy might throw out. I've personally never been keen on the best MVP methods basically revolving around running away before bosses can take a shot at you after you sock em for hundreds of thousands of damage. It doesn't really resemble a boss fight. It certainly doesn't promote party play for MVPs.
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#47 frankSG07

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:32 PM

I mvp with an AB now,
Maybe sp pots are bugged while on 10 sec delay mode.

Hopefully its just bugged
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#48 IronPlushy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:33 PM

Do I have to elaborate this to you?

Elaborate stupidity?
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#49 D111

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:34 PM

I dunno, I think it's kind of fitting that the ultimate "RELEASE ALL OF YOUR POWER AT ONCE" strike leaves you severely debilitated afterwards. Puts some thought/preperation into when you should use it.

Since they (rightfully) murdered Clashing, it doesn't look like Trans/2nd class skills are immune to the fist of "balance". (Pun intended)

If it's WoE, I have little sympathy for Suras that are upset. "Use teamwork to overcome Suras!" has been a common chant to counter complaints, so now I guess Suras can use teamwork to protect themselves when they're vulnerable.

I'm a little more receptive to an MVP/PVE problem with this, but at the same time it'd be mitigated by simply having someone else tanking, right? Seems like the issue is you want to gfist (super all out attack blah blah blah) and then be able to run from any retaliation an enemy might throw out. I've personally never been keen on the best MVP methods basically revolving around running away before bosses can take a shot at you after you sock em for hundreds of thousands of damage. It doesn't really resemble a boss fight. It certainly doesn't promote party play for MVPs.


I agree with this but if that is the case then any other One shot skill needs the same treatment. GFist only kills one Person.

Lets get a Min SP regen on Stormblast since its an AOE skill?
GX Whatch out don't backslide, they will just take it away from WoE again?

Seriously, I understand it needs a delay, but make it on the skill itself. Not on SP.
Even with a team effort the SUra is basically commiting sucide by Gfisting now.
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#50 Aeroku

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:35 PM

I played monk and champions long enough to know your only competitor vs mvps was and still is biochemist/genetic, your 'nothing great' GoH can deal very decent damage in the order of Acid Bomb, while you deal 500k with Gfist a genetic gets a change during 10~15s to bomb an mvp and have a chance to win before the next gfist comes.

like i said, lets count up the high ends mvp only. and before i say anything further, i'll state that i have both sura and genetic and i use them both for mvping. so i do have experience over both.

high end mvp's mostly has slow cast, bomb is overall fixed cast time, goh is fully variable. high end mvp's also has big vit, gains more damage from bomb. i know that bomb is fixed with the patch, but it still does great damage. add sacrament to the bomb cast time, its fast, and unaffected by slow cast from mvp's.

now to goh, its fully variable, and with phen + slow cast, its VERY slow (feel free to test it yourself). with that setup, you can pull ~ 2 bombs in 1 goh. bomb does ~ 2x more damage. so overall, bomb has 4x dps (and im not even counting the time you have to zen, and the slight delay on fury, which are also needed to fist.). add that up with many mvp's having agi up or have high flee to flee your goh, then you must be weird to waste supplies for that.

overall? you can tell yourself. but with that out, either i propose the sp timer to be removed (after-cast 10 sec delay on gfist is still fine), or i go with xellie idea, which is better than nothing and at least doesn't turn you to a sitting duck.

Edited by Aeroku, 16 December 2011 - 01:46 PM.

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