11 replies to this topic

[Kagrra]

With all of the +7 certs out, and the thread about there being too many +7 certs and deflation make me think about how upgrading actually is on RO.

These are just some things I think about it, from a perspective about only buying and upgrading gear for myself or for a friend, so if you have any thing negative to say, please at least do it in a constructive way, and if you have more suggestions or ideas, by all means, please elaborate. I'd just like to see upgrading to actually be used to it's full potential.

I just really think that upgrading shouldn't be has hard as it is. If you look at the over all upgrades, +7, which is pretty good now, isn't even HALF of what our limit is. I'd just really like to see things adjusted to working with a +20 upgrading system instead of a +10 upgrading system. I know there are cards that come out later that give incentive to get to +14, but only the seriously rich, irl or in-game, or the seriously bored can get to +14. Or that's how I feel about it. I'm having trouble even getting an item to +7, even with the +7 safe certs. Yes, we have too many +7 safe certs, I think they should only come out on special occasions, like Christmas/New Years or for iRO's anniversary, and that we need a REAL zeny sink that doesn't involve some upgrading event, since we do need gears to get broken; I can't sell anything because of the certs either.

I know this thread is kind of whacked out, but I've been up for over 24 hours straight and I wanted to say something about this before I passed out. Is there any update that fixes this or not? I've been having trouble keeping up with the updates for the most part.

I'm more curious about what other people would want to do with the upgrading system. The main point of this thread is not that I want upgrading to be easier, I just think that it should be NOT impossible, or nearly impossible, to get to +20 on a gear.

[AnnoDomini]

Every game needs its impossible dream.

Besides, part of end game content is the upgrading bit, which helps differentiate the ones who have invested time/money more than others.

Personally I don't see the benefits of going over the safe limit on a gear that doesn't give upgrading bonuses unless I have z to burn. Bragging rights and a wee bit more damage between a 4 and 7.

[MizunoAoi]

I'm having trouble even getting an item to +7, even with the +7 safe certs.

You and I both. I never understood the whole "too many certs" because I've had bad luck getting them and worse luck using them! I don't think it should take 12 of them to go up a single point. Although I got lucky and went from 6 > 7 in 5 once. Once. But I've less than 10 of each that I'm hording for something decent. With my luck none of them will work. :/

Personally, I don't think it should cost $20+ irl to go to +9/10 now a days.

[Okii]

I used an upgrading simulator someone posted somewhere and set it to go from +10 to +20
that thing flies through upgrading attempts in a flow chart kinda way
it ran for 20 minutes and when i stopped the simulator to see what I had it was +10.


I couldn't even tell you how many attempts it had made.

Over 1000 for sure and the highest I ever got was +15



I agree with the impossible dream thing but good god lol
even a simulator cannot do it.

[radiogaga]

The upgrading system seriously needs to be rescaled for renewal because currently, the rates have not been changed since prerenewal. That worked fine when the max refine rate was +10, but when it becomes +20...not so much. It's difficult enough to get to +10, and the success rates beyond +10 get exponentially lower. Even with HD, you would need an incredible amount of luck to get to +14 and beyond. The current rates are so low that, of course, nobody would want to risk breaking equipment for high upgrades because one would probably need hundreds if not thousands of a gear to get a +14 or something. HDs and safe certs make high upgrades possible, but they are not a viable solution in the long term since gears don't break and end up saturating the market because it is not the gear that gets consumed by the upgrading, but HD ores and safe certs, things that have been artificially injected into the market via the Kafra shop.

What needs to happen is that upgrade success rates need to be improved overall and high refine rates more obtainable in order to make the system viable without HD ores and safe certs, so that people are encouraged to take risks and break gear. It also wouldn't hurt to improve the bonuses for upgraded armor because as of now, they suck and give people no incentive to go beyond the safe limit unless it unlocks some sort of equipment bonus or ability (e.g. rwh at +9).

Edited by radiogaga, 18 December 2011 - 01:33 AM.

[Gangstaz]

They shouldn't have raised it to above +10 period.

Success rates were good for a limit of +10. But now they increased the limit, they didn't tweak the earlier rates (from +0 to +10). Heck stuff breaks like crazy from +4 to +5. This is another example of RO continuously adding new stuff, adding +20 +30 +40. But not bothering to tweak the +4, +5, +6, +7, +8 ,+9 rates at all. Just like adding new maps and expansions and new dungeons and new monsters. But forgetting about updating fabre, willows, bon guns, mandragoras, rockers, stainers etc.

[Kagrra]

Every game needs its impossible dream.

Besides, part of end game content is the upgrading bit, which helps differentiate the ones who have invested time/money more than others.

Personally I don't see the benefits of going over the safe limit on a gear that doesn't give upgrading bonuses unless I have z to burn. Bragging rights and a wee bit more damage between a 4 and 7.

I fine with there being an impossible dream, but upgrading is needed to level because of equipment put in the game that gives effects at certain levels, like now it's pretty worthless to card a Rideword Hat that's not +9, and we have headgears that don't even give effects until they're upgraded to +7.

I used an upgrading simulator someone posted somewhere and set it to go from +10 to +20
that thing flies through upgrading attempts in a flow chart kinda way
it ran for 20 minutes and when i stopped the simulator to see what I had it was +10.


I couldn't even tell you how many attempts it had made.

Over 1000 for sure and the highest I ever got was +15



I agree with the impossible dream thing but good god lol
even a simulator cannot do it.

Bolded for emphasis. This is more of the point I was trying to make.

[Xellie]

Remember when it took 3 years to create a god item?

Or 5000 statiscial mvp kills to get a card not counting competiton.

Well, it gave people something to aim for.... I think +20 should be next to impossible... imagine the value! plop +14~17 in the range of miniboss card value..... +10~14 in the rare items value.

Just because the max cap went up doesn't mean that half way should be as acheivable as half way before, the idea is to increase the rare items on the server for people to aim for, not lower them.

Also @ certs : Its a problem because once you hit +7 nothing ever breaks ever ever. No circulation of items etc etc. As people stop hunting stuff because its not worth it, the market will raise the prices to make the trouble of selling it worth it. it's bad all around.

(don't forget that don't the simulators use HD to simulate the upgrades? you don't HAVE to use HD to upgrade, sucess chances are higher with normal ores, but the draw back is the -3 rather than -1.)

Edited by Xellie, 18 December 2011 - 12:35 PM.

[Mayhem]

Remember when it took 3 years to create a god item?

Or 5000 statiscial mvp kills to get a card not counting competiton.

Well, it gave people something to aim for.... I think +20 should be next to impossible... imagine the value! plop +14~17 in the range of miniboss card value..... +10~14 in the rare items value.

Just because the max cap went up doesn't mean that half way should be as acheivable as half way before, the idea is to increase the rare items on the server for people to aim for, not lower them.

Also @ certs : Its a problem because once you hit +7 nothing ever breaks ever ever. No circulation of items etc etc. As people stop hunting stuff because its not worth it, the market will raise the prices to make the trouble of selling it worth it. it's bad all around.

(don't forget that don't the simulators use HD to simulate the upgrades? you don't HAVE to use HD to upgrade, sucess chances are higher with normal ores, but the draw back is the -3 rather than -1.)

Agreed.

Personally I think the game is getting a little broken giving people easy ways to +10 things, Lets face it that the standard now is +9. and the poor person has +7.

[Kagrra]

Remember when it took 3 years to create a god item?

Or 5000 statiscial mvp kills to get a card not counting competiton.

Well, it gave people something to aim for.... I think +20 should be next to impossible... imagine the value! plop +14~17 in the range of miniboss card value..... +10~14 in the rare items value.

Just because the max cap went up doesn't mean that half way should be as acheivable as half way before, the idea is to increase the rare items on the server for people to aim for, not lower them.

Also @ certs : Its a problem because once you hit +7 nothing ever breaks ever ever. No circulation of items etc etc. As people stop hunting stuff because its not worth it, the market will raise the prices to make the trouble of selling it worth it. it's bad all around.

(don't forget that don't the simulators use HD to simulate the upgrades? you don't HAVE to use HD to upgrade, sucess chances are higher with normal ores, but the draw back is the -3 rather than -1.)

Looking at it that way makes more sense. A lot more. But I think one point I was trying to make it that it should be more possible to get +20, like, let's say someone spent 3 years trying to get it like god items before, they completely deserve it, but at least it was possible to get one. Maybe in 3 years some +20 gear will pop up, but as it is, I don't see it to be likely.

Part of my post before I reworked it, went more into with +7 items. Instead of certs as they are, we should have something like a limiting system on them, like level 3 weapons can only have 5 certs used on it, ever, PERIOD., no more than that, no cool down, can't be reset with reset stones, and so on for other weapon levels and armors, not mattering whether it failed or not, so people are forced to upgrade with enriched or normal elu/ori after it's limit has been reached. And they should make it cost a bit more that normal upgrading with the certs, so there's a bit of a zeny sink with it as well. I think I established more on that originally, but I thought it got off the point and deleted it before I submitted it. @__@

[Kirsten]

You and I both. I never understood the whole "too many certs" because I've had bad luck getting them and worse luck using them! I don't think it should take 12 of them to go up a single point. Although I got lucky and went from 6 > 7 in 5 once. Once. But I've less than 10 of each that I'm hording for something decent. With my luck none of them will work. :/

Personally, I don't think it should cost $20+ irl to go to +9/10 now a days.

The upgrade certs are ok and isnt really a game breaker. Those who complain about it are those people who hoarded the certs when they first came out thinking they would make a profit out of it later on selling it for a higher price.

There are also those who complain that their elite items getting devalued by the certs. All MMORPG work this way. You just have to accept it and keep moving forward and strive to improve the gears you use.

[radiogaga]

The upgrade certs are ok and isnt really a game breaker. Those who complain about it are those people who hoarded the certs when they first came out thinking they would make a profit out of it later on selling it for a higher price.

There are also those who complain that their elite items getting devalued by the certs. All MMORPG work this way. You just have to accept it and keep moving forward and strive to improve the gears you use.

Problem is, these days the only way you can really improve your gear seems to be to throw more money at the Kafra shop.