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#1 ZeroChaos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:06 AM

So, I've been writing this over and over, but I get the feeling that if I really went in depth on how I really feel about it, people would just go tl;dr. I'll do the short version, renewal has me sick. We were all sitting in Valk/Smokies vent talking about pre-renewal, how it wasn't broken. I remember how I'd WILLINGLY drop 400+ a month on kp and :wave: and felt like it was worth it, I remember when I got my first valk armor, it meant something. When every class HAD a defined role for WoE, everyone here QQ's how their class cant do everything. For those who've been around a while, remember when prof was just for support? How Pallys just had sac or those OP LK's who could kick peoples a** with BB? When 1 player actually made a difference, when it wasn't just zergs, but actual skill? Now everything is just screwed up and easy....ook I'm going off on a rant, I'll stop now.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. My request is that we can keep at least 1 realm that is trans and under WoE. Why? Because Trans is the best thing to happen to RO and 3rd is just completely broken, if you want I can give an example.

Last night in pvp, a champ and myself were messing around and doing 1v1. Now he had to snap around to catch me, but I was still able to deal with him. Mind you I won, but everytime, I reminded him "If you were a sura, soon as you were in range you'd just have cc'ed and fisted me and that'd be the end of this fight." which everyone there lol'ed at, but it's the sad truth. Champs weren't broken, no class was really broken. If I complain about anything for pre-renewal, I'd say my own class (SinX) was OP. There's no reason WHY you should be able to do such retarded damage on a SinX and have that much hp, by way of the class, you're an assassin, supposed to be a glass cannon in reality.

Anyway, B> Trans realms or even better...B> Pre Renewal Server (I swear I'd pay for it like a premium server)
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#2 lainee

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:54 AM

Why? Because Trans is the best thing to happen to RO and 3rd is just completely broken, if you want I can give an example.


lol. Many would argue that Trans was when WoE first began to deteriorate. The biggest, best and most balanced WoEs were before the trans classes were introduced (and long before Valk server existed I guess). Trans WoE was not all bad though in comparison to pre-trans WoE and still had its good points, then again neither is Renewal WoE all bad, though some stuff was kind of broken (and hopefully the balance patch will have improved things, though it's hard to tell really at the moment due to the ridiculous Event WoEs)


When 1 player actually made a difference, when it wasn't just zergs, but actual skill? Now everything is just screwed up and easy.


Transfer to Ymir then. Meet some of the natives. lol

Afrikan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3APn0iqbYiw

Conquista (4x MULTICAST!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzOgwb_7FMo


Anyway, B> Trans realms or even better...B> Pre Renewal Server (I swear I'd pay for it like a premium server)


I keep hearing this, but find my self wondering, how come so many that seem to parrot this ad nauseam were not willing to pay to play on Chaos, Loki or Iris when they were the premium servers?

Edited by lainee, 07 January 2012 - 08:59 AM.

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#3 Hrishi

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:07 AM

While I agree that trans was a lot better (actually pre-trans was the best WoEs ever, but few played that long ago to remember), I doubt having a server with no updates or anything will sustain itself for long. How many will actually pay for a server like that?
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#4 ZeroChaos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:09 AM

I keep hearing this, but find my self wondering, how come so many that seem to parrot this ad nauseam were not willing to pay to play on Chaos, Loki or Iris when they were the premium servers?


Why pay for something when you already had it? Paying for premium servers then didn't make sense, was still the same thing. I'm willing to pay for something completely different than the crap we have now. I've been on RO for years now, renewal is the single worst thing to happen to it. I've known at least 95% of the friends I've played with before quit simply due to renewal, some people came back for the balance patch, but quit right after cause the balance patch was a joke, I know people who quit due TO the balance patch. Majority of those people would probably come back IF there was a pre-renewal server. Hell I've all but quit maining my GX because I made my SinX, I miss playing SinX, it was fun. I'd willingly delete my GX and transfer my SinX and Sniper to any server that was pre renewal settings.

As for the switching to Ymir, it's the same :wave: as Valk. Same 3rd class crap, so thanks, but no thanks. Plus I cant even transfer over half my GX's stuff there.
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#5 Hrishi

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:12 AM

As for the switching to Ymir, it's the same :wave: as Valk. Same 3rd class crap, so thanks, but no thanks. Plus I cant even transfer over half my GX's stuff there.


While I'm biased, your complaint about how a single player does not have an impact would be solved if you moved to Ymir. I know a lot of single important players who have a great impact in siege. While it remains to be seen how post-balance patch sieges go, it's bound to be better than before.
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#6 ZeroChaos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:19 AM

While I'm biased, your complaint about how a single player does not have an impact would be solved if you moved to Ymir. I know a lot of single important players who have a great impact in siege. While it remains to be seen how post-balance patch sieges go, it's bound to be better than before.


It's not so much of a single player carrying a guild, but if you played pre-renewal, you know what I mean about a single player being an impact player. As in, they had the gear/skill necessary to wipe entire guilds by themselves or how guilds won or lost based on if that player was there. Everyone knew who Writhing was back in the day, if you seen him, it was like "Oh :wave:.." cause you knew what would happen next. Back then people had things (Valk Armors/Valk Shields, CK, etc) that made you epic, I just miss the feeling of the exclusivity with things. Like I remember seeing Courage with the first +9 Diabolus armor, I thought "Damn I want that one day". Now, be it vet or noob, everyone has the same :sigh: and there's nothing that sets people apart anymore. Renewal, you can do everything. You can have the damage to one shot, dps to drop people in seconds AND tank everyone. It's no longer about anything other than who has the most pots (I do have a lot, so I'm not complaining there lol), people in guild and the most OP classes.
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#7 lainee

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:51 AM

Everyone knew who Writhing was back in the day, if you seen him, it was like "Oh :wave:.." cause you knew what would happen next. Back then people had things (Valk Armors/Valk Shields, CK, etc) that made you epic, I just miss the feeling of the exclusivity with things. Like I remember seeing Courage with the first +9 Diabolus armor, I thought "Damn I want that one day".


back in the day - heh, the Valk server is only 3 and a bit years old (end of September 2008?). This year is the 9th anniversary of iRO.

'epic' was once a +9 cranial buckler or guard. lol

Edited by lainee, 07 January 2012 - 09:59 AM.

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#8 ZeroChaos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:55 AM

back in the day - heh, the Valk server is only 3 and a bit years old (end of September 2008?). This is year is the 9th anniversary of iRO.

'epic' was once a plus +9 cranial buckler or guard. lol


I remember having a buckler...good times xD no lie, I was just smiling ): Cranial bucklers were win, god I remember having to hoard those things, then spam the upgrade npc and qq everytime it broke. Killing Kobolds for days..

Edited by ZeroChaos, 07 January 2012 - 09:55 AM.

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#9 IronPlushy

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:02 AM

It's not so much of a single player carrying a guild, but if you played pre-renewal, you know what I mean about a single player being an impact player. As in, they had the gear/skill necessary to wipe entire guilds by themselves or how guilds won or lost based on if that player was there. Everyone knew who Writhing was back in the day, if you seen him, it was like "Oh :wave:.." cause you knew what would happen next. Back then people had things (Valk Armors/Valk Shields, CK, etc) that made you epic, I just miss the feeling of the exclusivity with things. Like I remember seeing Courage with the first +9 Diabolus armor, I thought "Damn I want that one day". Now, be it vet or noob, everyone has the same :sigh: and there's nothing that sets people apart anymore. Renewal, you can do everything. You can have the damage to one shot, dps to drop people in seconds AND tank everyone. It's no longer about anything other than who has the most pots (I do have a lot, so I'm not complaining there lol), people in guild and the most OP classes.

If one player made that much of a difference, doesn't that mean there were groups of players that made no difference. Why would anyone want to play where one person wipes out an entire guild. That doesn't sound like balance or fun to me. It kinda of sounds like what's the point?
trans classes stop at 99/50 I believe. That means people spend even less time leveling, and there is much less end game content and maps. On this hypothetical server people would only really stick around for WoE and don't play the rest of the time. And you couldn't make it void of Kafrashop because then the server would be even less financially viable. I just feel there is a minority of players who want a pre-renewal server, and it just seems like a lot because those people are the ones who are staples of the forums.

I do wholeheartedly agree that the 150 level cap is too high and ruins the game. It's just stupid a character can have 100 in every stat, that's part of balance issues.
I would like to partake in a WoE where everyone had to start fresh, and there was no kafra shop influence so people had to upgrade the old fashion way, and didn't have kafra items. And the classes were balanced trans classes. One of the big problems in RO is new players can't even access WoE because established players have done WoE for years, they have the zenny, gear, upgrades, and gathered those from years of playing. The main difference should be skill.

Here's what you do. Start a petition for a non 3rd class WoE. You have to prove to GMs that people agree with your idea. I seriously doubt that a new server is a good idea by any stretch of the imagination, considering the server populations are cascading downhill. iRO Server Populations over time

If you can get enough people signing the petition, convince GMs that this new WoE will draw old players back to the game. I mean WoE is RO's big draw, and if you can please the people now who are well established in 3rd class WoE by leaving their WoE alone, while giving players who feel forgotten a place to return to by establishing a trans WoE, I think this might just be crazy enough to work.
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#10 Hinkypunk

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:24 AM

Now, be it vet or noob, everyone has the same :wave: and there's nothing that sets people apart anymore. Renewal, you can do everything. You can have the damage to one shot, dps to drop people in seconds AND tank everyone.


While gears play a big part in how a player experiences WoE, skill is--and has always been--the bigger factor. And in that sense, I really can't agree with your allegation that 'gear equality' among WoE participants gives rise to a situation where players can't be differentiated anymore. Furthermore, there is still a fairly big advantage to be had if players are equipped with god/MVP gears. And while there are quite a few of both on Ymir, it's only noticeable when the player who has them is skilled enough to utilize their maximum benefit.


It's not so much of a single player carrying a guild, but if you played pre-renewal, you know what I mean about a single player being an impact player. As in, they had the gear/skill necessary to wipe entire guilds by themselves or how guilds won or lost based on if that player was there.


I can't speak for Valk, but I never witnessed such a thing on Chaos WoE Pre-RE. And, quite frankly, what you're describing and praising about the Trans WoEs you experienced sounds terribly broken and not at all in the spirit of WoE (i.e. a Player vs Guild dynamic rather than Guild vs Guild).


It's no longer about anything other than who has the most pots (I do have a lot, so I'm not complaining there lol), people in guild and the most OP classes.


In the pre-Trans days, there was little that could one-shot kill a player in WoE (except for GFist Monk) so long as they had decent VIT and basic demi-human reducing gears. Pots were actually a much bigger deal back then. So were large precasts and 'zerg rushes' (aside: not certain why this has become such a dirty term lately?). The fact more players even have a chance to pot (rather than facing a hail of one-shot kill skills) is a good thing from my perspective. Then again, I main an AB and never did understand the fun in one-shot killing. Give me long challenging battles any day!

Bottom line, WoE has always had its pros and cons in each edition. And players will always have different/conflicting expectations and motivations when it comes to how they experience WoE. At some point you just have to accept that things change and learn how to experience what's currently available. If you aren't having fun, try a different class. Sometimes a different mindset helps too.
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#11 Chipotle

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:24 AM

ffs no more event woes ;o
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#12 ZeroChaos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:41 AM

In the pre-Trans days, there was little that could one-shot kill a player in WoE (except for GFist Monk) so long as they had decent VIT and basic demi-human reducing gears. Pots were actually a much bigger deal back then. So were large precasts and 'zerg rushes' (aside: not certain why this has become such a dirty term lately?). The fact more players even have a chance to pot (rather than facing a hail of one-shot kill skills) is a good thing from my perspective. Then again, I main an AB and never did understand the fun in one-shot killing. Give me long challenging battles any day!

Bottom line, WoE has always had its pros and cons in each edition. And players will always have different/conflicting expectations and motivations when it comes to how they experience WoE. At some point you just have to accept that things change and learn how to experience what's currently available. If you aren't having fun, try a different class. Sometimes a different mindset helps too.


There is no disagreement with you there, I mained a SinX and I was NEVER SVD build, I never liked the concept of 1 shotting people, hence why I was an agi/crit build back before RT's came out. Using Kobold Accessories lol
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#13 Amis

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:47 AM

Sounds like a bunch of whining to me. Get top end gear and learn to play your class and you can differentiate yourself, which is just like it has always been. I liked pre-renewal WoE more too, but that's just because it felt a bit more fast paced.
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#14 ZeroChaos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:04 PM

Sounds like a bunch of whining to me. Get top end gear and learn to play your class and you can differentiate yourself, which is just like it has always been. I liked pre-renewal WoE more too, but that's just because it felt a bit more fast paced.


http://ropd.info/?account=3488206

Lol, you must not know me to say "get top end gear and learn to play your class"
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#15 frankSG07

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:17 PM

No more, everyone has a 3rd class, different classes has different advantage and disadvantages, you have a choice , .work harder instead of saying "no! Thats its I had enough"
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#16 Amis

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:31 PM

http://ropd.info/?account=3488206

Lol, you must not know me to say "get top end gear and learn to play your class"


If it isn't the gear... ;P
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#17 igzz

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:37 PM

elitism.
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#18 Akin

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:56 PM

Because Trans is the best thing to happen to RO and 3rd is just completely broken, if you want I can give an example.

As Lainee stated, I know a lot of people who would argue that Trans was the "beginning of the end" for balance in RO. But if you've only played on Valk, then I guess you wouldn't know that.


It's not so much of a single player carrying a guild, but if you played pre-renewal, you know what I mean about a single player being an impact player. As in, they had the gear/skill necessary to wipe entire guilds by themselves or how guilds won or lost based on if that player was there.

That's a terrible idea about what balance or fun is. But regardless, even post-renewal, and post balance patch, guilds still have their heroes who help turn the tide of battle. I see it every week on Ymir.
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#19 Kadnya

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:01 PM

Second or trans classes with renewal mechanics wouldn't be so awesome. A prerenewal server would be really cool, though.

Having different servers with different setting would make more sense than having three servers with identical settings...

Edited by Kadnya, 07 January 2012 - 02:02 PM.

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