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Making a Scholar


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#1 Phobos

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 03:08 PM

I'm finally ready to trans my first sage and now I basically need second opinions (okay so it's actually about the fifth now) on my plans for my Full Support Scholar.

I repeat, FS Scholar!! Now, how to start... oh, of course, a list!

1. Planning on having lots of DEX, base 99 actually, so I'm curious. Any use for Freecast? Oh, and btw, I'm not getting Foresight.

2. Indulge. Any advice on it is appreciated and probably needed. A few dilemmas here.
a. I've been surveying people in game and about half has lvl 5 and the other lvl 4 with an outlier who has lvl 3 (the level is their chosen max not what they had at the moment).
b. When planning on my max hp and max sp, should I base it w/ blessing? 3.

3. Somewhat related to #2. Int. How much? Or is it SP? How much? It depends on the classes I have to provide with SP right? Yeah, lots of help here. :D

Geez. I still have a bunch to ask but I don't want to put so many questions. It would make me look needy. I'm sure this has been established but still.

Thanks in advance!! :p_devil:
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#2 holatuwol

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:02 PM

Any use for Freecast? Oh, and btw, I'm not getting Foresight.

There aren't many uses for it, no. If you're aiming for 99 base dex, your cast time is fast enough that you'd only rarely have the opportunity to move before your cast finishes. Usually only happens if you get caught by quagmire, and at that point, you're moving super slow so it's pointless anyway.

Indulge. Any advice on it is appreciated and probably needed. A few dilemmas here.

It's really only a matter of how often you need to give SP. If you plan to level with champs in dimensional gorge or Thors, you'll want higher levels of indulge so as to avoid getting carpal tunnel trying to give them SP. If you plan to level with other classes instead, you won't actually need to give SP that often, so having lower levels of indulge won't hurt. I would try level 3 to start and see if you need more as you go.

When planning on my max hp and max sp, should I base it w/ blessing?

Yes. In almost every situation where you give close to max SP, either a priest or a champion will be around to give you blessing. If you're trying something really weird with an LK, a sniper, or a rapid smiting paladin, those classes will have low max SP so not having blessing won't matter.

Int. How much? Or is it SP? How much? It depends on the classes I have to provide with SP right? Yeah, lots of help here.

You probably want about 40-ish INT so that your heaven's drive is able to uncloak people. That will give you 1400 SP without gears. Variants and a morpheus set will be able to take care of the rest in most cases in PvM (champs won't need that much SP in WoE so that's not a huge concern), but if you think you'll find yourself in MVP situations where variants and morpheus set are insufficient (if they use a lich bone wand rather than a lunakaligo, for example), then you can get more.
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#3 Phobos

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:09 PM

:D Whoa, just what I needed.

Everything is informative, useful and clear. Thank you very much!!

One thing though. The INT required to HD/FD people has always baffled me...
I thought any damaging spell has a minimum of 1 point of damage no matter how much MATK the attacker has and how much MDEF (Armor and Int) the taget has as long as the target isn't an opposing element. Hence, Ice Titans' FD always misses me when I have an Aqua armor but with Unfrozen Unless they wear Earth or Fire armor to nullify HD. Do they? I just recently returned to RO and still getting back on my feet with WoE so I might be missing something. Or does it have something to do with cloak/hide?

Anyways thanks again! More to come I promise. :p_devil:
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#4 Prodigy

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 07:16 AM

One thing though. The INT required to HD/FD people has always baffled me...
I thought any damaging spell has a minimum of 1 point of damage no matter how much MATK the attacker has and how much MDEF (Armor and Int) the taget has as long as the target isn't an opposing element. Hence, Ice Titans' FD always misses me when I have an Aqua armor but with Unfrozen Unless they wear Earth or Fire armor to nullify HD.

You are partially correct that mdef alone is not enough to reduce magic damage below 1. But keep in mind that players tend to wear cranial, and in WoE there is a 40% skill damage reduction. Both of those can work towards reducing your damage below 1, like elemental armors do.

Edited by Prodigy, 10 September 2010 - 07:16 AM.

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#5 Phobos

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 10:15 AM

Oh wow!
So it's the percentage. I always thought elements just had a special property, I never considered that they had a percentage reduction as well. Still, I thought the percent reductions were applied first then the direct reductions of int. In that case, how can damage be reduced below 1 if mdef can't do it by itself. I'm missing something aren't I.
Just curious.

Also, what's everones take on ME?
I've had lots of both lvl 3 and lvl 5 advocates.
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#6 Boat

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:59 AM

Hey, not trying to infringe on your thread here, but I was hoping to get some advice as well. I'm also about to trans my sage, and I have never played a scholar (and rarely played with one) before or done WoE, so this is all new territory to me. So I was just hoping to ask how this skill build looked; please don't hesitate to tell me it's way off~

http://web.hc.keio.a...skill3/pro.html
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#7 Phobos

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:53 AM

I'm fine with that. More questions asked by others means I don't have to ask the same questions and sound needy in the process. In other words, infringe all you want.
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#8 holatuwol

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:26 AM

Also, what's everones take on ME?

Level 3 confines your party to a smaller area on the map so it's not as effective if you're trying to push the enemy back (more common in WoE 2.0 fights). At the same time, Level 5 is rather large so it will cover areas outside of your precast on most maps, so it's not as effective for protecting your precast (more common in WoE 1.0 fights). It's all a matter of what your guild plans to do during WoE and where you actually plan to use ME. For PvM purposes, Level 3 works just fine.

So I was just hoping to ask how this skill build looked; please don't hesitate to tell me it's way off~

Your URL doesn't contain the token for reloading your skills, so nobody knows what skills you were planning to get. You need to go to Option in the upper right and select "Copy to URL" and use that URL as a reference.

Edited by holatuwol, 14 September 2010 - 06:15 PM.

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#9 Boat

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:23 PM

Whoops! Here's the URL.

http://web.hc.keio.a...CgRkDradAkfqndx
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#10 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:43 PM

I'll answer this pretty simply.. FIRST your matk is reduced by the enemy's mdef. The percentage is taken off by their hard mdef, then subtracted by their soft mdef. At THIS point, the damage cannot go below 1. But then all the other reductions apply. WoE reduction is 40%. Thara + a beret is another 40%. Then elemental multipliers come after that. When all this is done, it is possible for the damage to go below 1, and if it does so, it misses.

For example, say you have that minimum 90 matk. Going against a stalker with 20 + 30 mdef.

Their mdef will reduce the damage by 20%, then subtract 30. You are at 42 now.

Now suppose they have the thara + beret and a pasana card, giving half damage against earth attacks. All this, plus WoE reduction, will make your damage 18%. You are down to about 7 damage. That works out pretty well still. However, if your targets did have considerably more soft mdef... you still would not hit them.
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#11 holatuwol

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:07 PM

http://web.hc.keio.ac.jp/~fk061999/himeyasha/skill3/pro.html?20qoHnfkeGcskAaCgRkDradAkfqndx

Not much to say. It's a pretty standard build, other than your preference for Frost Diver over Stone Curse (unusual for WoE, but it works great in PvM), and your preference for Soul Siphon over Dispell (unusual in general, since most people hate having any fail rate at all on Dispell).
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#12 Boat

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:53 PM

Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm glad I got as close as I did for winging it xD
But I am looking to do WoE with this, so I'll adjust The FD-Stone Curse levels. And I did still have 4 points remaining on that build. I added them to max Indulge and Dispel.

Here is the URL again if anyone else wants to take a look!
http://web.hc.keio.a...CgRkDradAkfqndx

And thanks a lot, hola. That is a big help -_-
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#13 Phobos

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:53 PM

Thanks for all the help with the matk calculations and the views on ME.

However, I have one more request for the matk calculations.
Can you give an example in which the damage does reduce below/to 0?
Still doesn't make anhy sense to me how a percentage can decrease something below/to 0 unless it was a 100% or more reduction which I cannot visualize happen at the moment.

Thanks again.
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#14 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 10:21 PM

Thanks for all the help with the matk calculations and the views on ME.

However, I have one more request for the matk calculations.
Can you give an example in which the damage does reduce below/to 0?
Still doesn't make anhy sense to me how a percentage can decrease something below/to 0 unless it was a 100% or more reduction which I cannot visualize happen at the moment.

Thanks again.

The damage does not go below zero. It does not reach zero. That is impossible. The damage does, however, fall between 0 and 1, which makes it miss.

How about an ice titan. Ice titans have 10 int, so their matk is 11-14. They know frost driver lv7, so they will do 18-23 ice damage with their spell.

Another thing to point out: vit also reduces magic damage by .5. Let's say we have a sin pulling a titan that is angry. The sin has 1 int and 30 vit, no hard magic defense. Therefore any magic damage will be reduced by 16 on the sin. When the ice titan casts frost driver on the sin, it will then do 2 - 7 damage.

If the sin then decides to use a swordfish card, that reduces damage by 1/4. The damage range of the ice titan will then be .5 - 1.75. All damage is rounded down to the lowest integer, so the ice titan can either do 0 or 1 damage. When it hits with 0 damage, it misses, and there is no chance to be frozen. But even if it hits for 1 damage, the sin can be frozen.

Now let us suppose this same sin got 10 more int. He now will reduce all damage ice titans do with frost driver to 1 no matter what. Even though the 10 int is more than enough to effectively push the highest damage to 0, the minimum is still initially 1. But NOW, let us say he puts on a pisces crown. This headgear gives more bonuses to int and mdef, however, these will not help reduce the damage below 1. However, the crown ALSO has a bonus to reduce damage from water property attacks by 5%. This will apply AFTER the mdef reduces the damage to 1. So, when wearing the crown, when an ice titan uses frost driver on him, the damage is first reduced to 1, and then the reductions kick in. He will take .95 damage, but that will round to 0.
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#15 Phobos

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 04:54 AM

Finally, I understand!
Thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it!
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