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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 01:53 PM

So I am working on a system for turning old gear into useful things, as well as turning dropped gears from monsters into useful things. I wanted to try and consume those surplus items in the upgrading system but there is no simple way of doing so with the current game system (I've burned many days trying to jury rig it.) but a more complex solution may be possible.

So what I would like to have from community members is for them to post specific gears that they have huge quantities of, like if you still have 100 Chainmail [1] that would be something you should post.

Server, Item Name and value you think it is worth such as this example of mine of the Chainmail [1].
  • Ymir Chainmail [1] 60,000z
What might be possible is an exchanger that consumes headgears and gives "points" and once enough points are generated a Safe to 7 certificate of the appropriate type is given. The values will determine how many points are needed to get a Certificate. I know that most of these low level gears are not worth a full Upgrade Certificate by themselves, so multiple turnins would be necessary to get a full value, so like 30 chain mails may get you a Safe to +7 Armor certificate.

Additionally I would like to test the waters on the idea of old gear with refinements on it being worth more points, so your old +7 Chainmail [1] would be worth Chainmail points + the refinement points. This way you can recycle your old gear back into easier upgrading now. With your feedback I would like to know what % of a Safe Certificate would upgrades be worth?

+4 = 0%
+5 = X%
+6 = Y%
+7 = Z%
Etc.

This way we can work on consuming those incoming gears and the old gears while still giving value back. This is likely the long term use of the upgrade certificates if we can get this system to work.
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#2 Mayhem

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:08 PM

Well I hope that you only choose things that are truly worthless.
Giving people options to turn in things also means that they will no longer be on the vending market.
(well unless they are vending it for the sole purpose of the turn in)
Kind of like the headgear turn in you sometimes have during the hat events, meant I could never buy a cheap headgear if I wanted it just for looks.

Choosing really crap gear wouldnt hurt anyone. Like you said of slotted chainmail or slotted padded armor.
but we just have to be sure its crap gear
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#3 Akami

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:12 PM

I like the idea, a lot of us have tons of junk gear in storage that we don't know what to do with.

And as for the percentages, starting at +4 go up by 10% for each level maybe?

Edited by Akami, 20 January 2012 - 02:13 PM.

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#4 Rutana

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:12 PM

Skull Ring
I have an awefull amount of those, that I don't wanna throw away at the same time, because their slotted version isn't... well... it's not "useless" - but also not very usefull or a must have.

Worth on Ymir (based on Ragial):
10k

(sl version is wrote down there for 30m average, but vend history proovs it about 1-2m max)

Edited by Rutana, 20 January 2012 - 02:13 PM.

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#5 Xellie

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:23 PM

So people can farm crappy common gears for certs? lol (or turn in crap from treasure I suppose)

oh well I have 2 storages full of odin's blessings. worth about a mil each on ymir?

This isn't going to help with the over saturation of the higher end gear tho.
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#6 PhenixFire

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:24 PM

I think that the surplus of bad gears people have were probably NPC'd, since there is a cap on storage, and you simply can't hold all the chain mails etc.
As of this moment I think the items that are in mass quantity are gears dropped by either MVP's, or collected during the turn ins. So perhaps looking over the turn in's and the gears that can be dropped from them would be a good place to start with what gears/items you want to be able to turn in. And the maps that have the highest volume on average.

For example: I had 40+ bone plates from doing TI's on my chars, they only NPC'd for 10z, and didn't sell. That was a direct effect of TI's, and nothing more.

I would group the system by tiers, and make the points like that. The +'s is a great idea as well.

With the + system, or sorta figuring out a equation i'd put in the factors of:
(Class of Armor or Level of Weapon x upgrade) / # of monsters that drop it

+7 Bone Plate[1]:
S (class I assume?) ((4x7)/1) = 28% of an armor upgrade cert.

+7 chain mail[1]:
B class (I think?) ((2x7)/6) = 2% (rounded down) of an armor cert


*OFF TOPIC*
Just a simple answer from Heim himself on these 2 matters:
1.Will there ever be a de-carding NPC?
2.Have you thought about old gears with cards in them that could of value?
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#7 Alicesaurus

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:27 PM

^ Have been looking forward to a de carding npc for some time now.

I don't see the value in making crap gears worth anything. Maybe if you tied it into mvp drops so as to encourage mvp hunting, that might be a better idea. They wouldn't have to be worth a ton as long as they are worth something. Most mvp's drop old gears that no one wants. Very few mvp's have favorable returns.

Edited by Alicesaurus, 20 January 2012 - 02:32 PM.

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#8 Resplendent

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:27 PM

So the only thing that one will be able to exchange old gears for will be upgrade certs?

Also, is it possible to run a database query to find what gears are lying around in the highest numbers (not in market circulation)? Talking about uncarded, unupgraded gears that are just sitting in carts or storage. That might give you a better idea of what isn't selling.

Edited by Resplendent, 20 January 2012 - 02:29 PM.

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#9 lainee

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:29 PM

Skull Ring


I thought under this proposed system it's meant to be trading in armors to make armor certs, head gears to make head gear certs, weapons to make weapon certs. Why would an accessory be on the list in the first place?
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#10 Rutana

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:30 PM

I thought under this proposed system it's meant to be trading in armors to make armor certs, head gears to make head gear certs, weapons to make weapon certs. Why would an accessory be on the list in the first place?


I blame the language barrier for this one :blaugh:
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#11 Sera

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:34 PM

Can't you buy skull rings at an NPC anyway?

I don't have A LOT of junk items lying around, but the ones I do have are old event hats, kafra shop hats, and useless lucky box hats. (I have a bunch of ygg crowns, lif hats, etc)
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#12 TheGuindo

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:35 PM

Wooden armor [1], hat [1], sandals [1], hood [1]. While these might not be completely worthless, I tend to find way more of them when I'm leveling than I will ever be able to sell, and you'll be lucky to see them go at anything above 10k ea.

Also any of the 4-slotted weapons that are not the highest atk in their class. A main gauche [4] is useful, but a knife [4] or cutter [4] is not, for example. These won't sell at all and you're better off NPCing them.
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#13 Inubashiri

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:36 PM

So the only thing that one will be able to exchange old gears for will be upgrade certs?

Also, is it possible to run a database query to find what gears are lying around in the highest numbers (not in market circulation)? Talking about uncarded, unupgraded gears that are just sitting in carts or storage. That might give you a better idea of what isn't selling.


I was going to post this but you beat me to it being a heavy database programmer myself, I like to see nice reports and charts that have distribution in this case like in a pie chart or maybe even a pivot grid or two. Go Go statics & logistics.
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#14 Andini

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:36 PM

stone bucklers
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#15 Sera

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:38 PM

With regard to stuff like chainmail and the other extra slotted things, why haven't people NPC'd these by now due to lack of stacking? No one should have really been keeping large quantities of them around imo.

I'd look more into gears with no NPC value and large quantities.

Edited by Sera, 20 January 2012 - 02:38 PM.

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#16 Heimdallr

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:43 PM

Yes I have reports of how many of X item there is, but it doesn't tell me what refine level or what is compounded in them (cards or enchantment).

Right now most every MVP thing can be Eden Merit Badged. .But what of old upgraded gear that is too valuable to NPC, but not powerful enough to be considered as a good purchase on the player market?

Also about the decarding. Yes there is a system of sorts for it, but I think it has a big negative outcome if everything is allowed to decard all at once. What would the server do if 300,000 Thara Frog Cards entered the market, aside from 100% card value crash that it will not get up from for years. Trickling in some sort of decarding certificate would be a more stable approach to it rather than an everybody decard everything now.
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#17 Skotios

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:45 PM

Oh wow I had a list of items that couldn't NPC for any value but weren't worth it to vend (they were like under 50k and would probably take forever to sell) and so I just had a drop-fest in eden. XD Owel. Um I know electric fist was one...? Yea I got nothing it was a few weeks ago.

As for cards, I do agree a huge amount of cards hitting the market would deflate card values a lot but at the same time I think a lot of players (including my brother and I) will only be moving the cards from weak 5+ year old gear (guards/stone bucklers) into the current staple of armors. I haven't taken economics so correct me if this is a wrong assumption but while card values will decline the value on gears that people will be moving said cards into (such as Valk shields, Nid Garbs, etc.) should skyrocket no? *Runs and buys up all the cheap gears while he can*

Edited by Skotios, 20 January 2012 - 02:51 PM.

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#18 asayuu

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:46 PM

+4~+5 = 60% = 1.6666~ certs average
+5~+6 = 40% = 2.5 certs average
+6~+7 = 40% = 2.5 certs average

so stacking...

+4~+6 = 24% = 4.1666 certs average
+4~+7 = 9.6% = 10.41666 certs average

For whoever ask where I found those numbers:

1 / refine chance, like (1 / 0.6)

I remember when Ben Recycler "was" important due to giving ores for seal 4, but then the stuff got trivial to the point of being ignored... Now... is it coming a new option? /hmm

Also. No touching level 1 weapons, they are already "safe to +7" /gg

Edited by asayuu, 20 January 2012 - 02:49 PM.

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#19 Sera

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

If you're looking for upgrade things, yeah, like all of the old 'set' items like Stone Bucklers, Odin's Blessings, Magni's Cap, Morpheus, etc
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#20 Skotios

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:53 PM

I better start picking up the random crap equip that drops in Abyss Lake! O.O!
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#21 Andini

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 02:59 PM

Just make decarding a zeny sink or something. Like only make certain most popular cards be able to be decarded from a drop down in an npc. You can then choose whether to keep the gear or card. Give the more expensive cards a smaller chance to decard and have it cost like 1 -50m depending on the rarity of the card. Like a maya purple would cost like 50m to decard at say like 25% chance. (dependent on server)

no one would use it on lower end cards as it wouldnt even be worth it

Edited by Andini, 20 January 2012 - 03:01 PM.

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#22 TheGuindo

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:05 PM

Just make decarding a zeny sink or something. Like only make certain most popular cards be able to be decarded from a drop down in an npc. You can then choose whether to keep the gear or card. Give the more expensive cards a smaller chance to decard and have it cost like 1 -50m depending on the rarity of the card. Like a maya purple would cost like 50m to decard at say like 25% chance. (dependent on server)

no one would use it on lower end cards as it wouldnt even be worth it



Wow no that sounds like a terrible solution. I would rather have a low-quality carded gear than take the chance of losing the gear and the card. Certs with a chance of failure (nothing destroyed in a failed attempt) sounds like a much better idea to me. The only part of this idea that sounds good is choosing whether to keep the gear or the card and having the other destroyed on a successful attempt.
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#23 JStoneheart

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:09 PM

It's funny how eden gear and boxes made almost all gear worthless.
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#24 Andini

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:10 PM

with what i was saying, there is no destroying of item, if the attempt fails, you retain the item but lose the zeny needed for the attempt. if it succeeds and say you choose the card, the gear dissapears. it probably has a thousand flaws, but it would be a way to take out zeny w/o messing up the amount of cards in the server THAT much

the better question is what would gms want more? a potential slight zeny sink or a possible kafra item?

Edited by Andini, 20 January 2012 - 03:13 PM.

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#25 Heimdallr

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:13 PM

It's funny how eden gear and boxes made almost all gear worthless.


To an extent anything that existed as a normal without special set bonus gear is deprecated severely with the Eden Gear. Things like Shoes, Boots, Muffler, Chainmail, Silk Robe Hat etc all are outclassed significantly by the Eden Gear. The items with set bonus like Morpheus set do hold up a bit better with their unique effects but the lack of a slot and high defense on those older set gears makes them a hard sell on use now. I would love to put those sets through a revamp and release V2 of them, but that is a very long term project.



the better question is what would gms want more? a potential slight zeny sink or a possible kafra item?

Really if it were a perfect world much of the cards would go up in smoke, including MVP cards. Fewer of them makes the server more apt for players hunting rather than trying to trade for them. Of course I know what my response would be if my Maya Purple Monocle, +4 GTB Guard +5 GR Cotton Shirt and Deviling Hood suddenly vanished would be, and I think players that have those would also be outraged.

Realistic a zeny sink works but the problem with making it expensive is why even allow the low grade cards to even attempt it if the values are they skewed? Wouldn't it then make more sense to only allow decarding of the few dozen cards that have "high" value. But if We do that we have players that want to recover certain utility cards that aren't on the market but also aren't very valuable too but can't.

Making it a "service" also has benefits in the quantity certainly would be lower, and can be done as an event type give away as well. Raffle, Box, extreme Merit Badge Turnin, grand prize on daily item lotto etc. I don't think players will be happy if it is only expensive, or if it is only a purchase thing, some consideration in how to implement it is important because it is a decision that will last a long time so doing it right is key.

If Gear and Cards were acct bound this would be a no brainer : )
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