76 replies to this topic

[Akami]

Actually the Morpheus set in particular still finds a lot of use among Suras, I've noticed. Hard to argue with the SP boost it gives.

[TheGuindo]

with what i was saying, there is no destroying of item, if the attempt fails, you retain the item but lose the zeny needed for the attempt. if it succeeds and say you choose the card, the gear dissapears. it probably has a thousand flaws, but it would be a way to take out zeny w/o messing up the amount of cards in the server THAT much

the better question is what would gms want more? a potential slight zeny sink or a possible kafra item?

Ohh, sorry, I misunderstood. That sounds reasonable, then. But only being able to choose select cards, idk, I think it should apply to any card.

Maybe make it a zeny-sink for VIP users only OR kafra item option for both?

[asayuu]

Let all those low-tier equipment be enchanted. And up to 3 enchants like the new eden ones/mora.

[Ramen]

I can see where you're trying to go with this, but I just can't help but feel that there would be some problems. Typically speaking, the only gears that people end up having in mass quantities like you suggest, are the crappier gears dropped from treasure boxes in castles. If you suddenly say that all of those can be turned in to get Safe to 7 Certs, it feels like it would just make the WoE scene even more irritating, with the big guilds growing even farther apart from everyone else, with pretty much no chance to catch up legitimately.

If you're worried about having huge stockpiles of useless gears, a good idea may well be to take a look at changing castle drops. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that believes they are very outdated. Using the Chain Mail example, a lot of these types of useless gears are dropped at stupidly low chances on monsters that aren't really leveled on very often anyway. The only way I can imagine someone getting overly large stockpiles of said gears would be through botting. You also have to consider the fact that if you make it possible to get Certs just by turning in enough equipment, that there will be plenty of bots farming the monsters that drop those items.

Also, I'd like you to consider what people have pointed out before. One of the big reasons that gears are just continuing to pile up is because of these Safe to 7 Certs. When you no longer break your gear while upgrading, you no longer need to buy replacements if your upgrading attempts fail. Seems to me, offering certs for crappy old equipment would just be exacerbating the problem, not resolving it.

Since I don't want to just critique everything, I have thought of something that may or may not work instead.

Basically have an NPC that would take these gears and "melt them down" into prize medals. It could easily work the same way, where a +0 Chain Mail would be worth say...0.5 Prize Medals (not sure what would be the appropriate value) and a +7 might be worth 3, or something along those lines. If your gear was carded, perhaps after melting the gear down, you could get a certain number of blank cards as compensation as well. I feel like this would have a much more direct way of benefiting players while alleviating the over supply of gears in the market caused, in part, by the Safe to 7 Certs.

[lainee]

The items with set bonus like Morpheus set do hold up a bit better with their unique effects but the lack of a slot and high defense on those older set gears makes them a hard sell on use now. I would love to put those sets through a revamp and release V2 of them, but that is a very long term project.

Add them to the list of items that can be 'slotted'. The socket enchant list needs an upgrade anyway.

[Pres]

Hatii Claws :[

[morakdais]

How about turning in lower gears for random socket enchants (that won't tamper with +'s, cards or slots). Something like "100 points to enchant" and lower gears are 1~10 points each. You could even vary it with sword points, armor points etc.

Or have a shop in eden group that you can "sell" the gears to but get points, and then newer/lower characters can buy them at reduced prices at the shop. Only the shops inventory is limited to buy only as much as people have sold (like a pawn shop). You just have to balance it so people can't just sell-buy-sell, although it would be a great zeny sink and allow for better gears to get out there.

[Kitten]

Somewhat related... I've started leveling a new character and what really struck me was how much of my gear I couldn't use. Things like old headgears that give +1 or +2 to a single stat are still marked as being for characters level 70 and above. That's ridiculous. The Eden items give much larger bonuses than that and yet I can't wear something like Angel Wing Ears on my new Archer?

Maybe reevaluating what classes can wear what and at what level would help to make some of this "useless" gear slightly less useless. Or at least slightly more relevant to today's game play. Why would anyone wear this stuff when there are dozens of better items they can use that they can equip so much sooner. It's no wonder it's all rotting away in storage.

[blitzrick]

I would say Stone Buckler, Magni Cap, Morph Hood, Erde, but those items are already recyclable.

So, I think GM have to cross check with existing NPCs (Ben Recycler, Merry Badger, and Eve Natalia) then reevaluate and reorganize which items to which npc so that they don't repeat.

Also each recycle NPC must have a clear criterion on what kind of item they take and what reward they give. For example,
I would appoint Merry Badger to take MVP loots and only give Eden Merry Badge.
Ben Recycler will take Guild Treasure common loots and monsters' common loots excluding etc item and give rough ores and WoE supplies.
Eve Natalia will take common MVP loots that are not in Merry Badger's list and give Upgrade Certificate or the new point system.

And what players can do is to list what items are quickly accumulate in their storage/ inventory whether it's from MVP or normal monsters.

[Falcifer]

Right now most every MVP thing can be Eden Merit Badged.

Nowhere near "most" ):
I still have a massive amount of mvp equips that should be added to that list (coronet, gungnir, etc).
Honestly, any equip that drops from an mvp (even if you can get it elsewhere at a much lower rate) along with all their signature misc drops should be added to that list.

Also, if it takes a massive number of crap equips to just get a single safe to +7 certificate, I'd prefer just getting some Eden badges instead, since you have that new Eve Natalia npc in eden giving certs for high grade MVP gear anyways.

[Hrishi]

Include all gear into an upgrading system such that nothing needs to be hard-coded. If you implement an exchanger all that will happen is that eventually you will have to reprogram the exchanger as more and more gear goes out of date.

I suggest you implement a new form of upgrading. I have been suggesting this for a few months now and while most people seem to agree it's a good idea, it seems to be ignored somehow.

Create an NPC that checks if the item ID of the equipped slot and the item ID of the item in your inventory match. Essentially, if you trade it the base item you get a free upgrade chance. It can have a kafra shop component, say an enriched elu/ori + base item to give you a safe attempt. It could be even more, perhaps for levels of +7 and higher, the cost could be elu/ori+safe cert+base item. Including the base item in the cost will tons of items to disappear under upgrading attempts.

Is this not possible by RO NPC scripting?

- Check item ID of item equipped
- Search inventory if same item ID exists
- If exists, consume materials and provide attempt

I understand RO is not smart enough to detect the upgrade level of an item in your inventory, but only the one in your equipped slot. Why not allow a simple code that checks if you have the base item on you, then consume a cert, the base item and an elu/ori to give you a safe upgrade. This will try to upgrade without de-leveling the gear. I can see tons of benefits, to make a piece of gear +10, statistically speaking you will use up to 10 pieces of gear to make it so. That by itself creates a gear sink.

For example, I have a +9 Valkyrie Manteau and want to make a +10. I would, at worst need to consume 10 +0 Valkyrie Manteaus, 10 Enriched Elu and 10 Safe Certs (assuming you follow this suggested cost). It would be advantageous to the player to use such a system for when gear is cheap. If gear is expensive, the existing system can simply be followed.

The cost I suggested is just an example, I am sure you can come up with a fair pricing but keep the spirit of what I suggested to allow for gears to break. Because however worthless an Odin's Blessing is today, I bet a +15 Odin's Blessing won't be so worthless. If it takes 200 Odin's Blessings to do it, isn't that a good thing? Because essentially it drained 200 of a piece of gear to make it sort of useful (because of it's high refine rate).

Of course, a cap to this sort of refining could be implemented so we don't start seeing +20s if that is what you prefer.

Edited by Hrishi, 20 January 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[LuxiLux]

Valk Corsair 500,000z
Valk Coronet 500,000z
Valk Jewel Crown 360,000z
Valk Magni's Cap 50,000z


obviously a lot more, can't think of them right now though.

[AhinaReyoh]

Hatii Claws :[

And most of the other fist weapons too. Ones like Combo Battle Gloves and Horn of Hillslion are pretty useless, or old ones like Studded Knuckles[3] and Finger[2]. All are probably worth less then 200k on Valk, and 200k sound generously high for how little use most of them would get.

[huad]

Mostly MVP drops and old headgears. I have 3 storages and a couple carts full of stuff. That means there's still a lot of MVP drops that aren't on the Merry Badger Exchanger.

MVP drops marked in red (purely from my memory, so a cross reference would be good).

Weapon
Assassin Dagger
Broad Sword[2]
Chakram
Cutlus
Dagger of Counter
Doom Slayer
Evil Bone Wand
Fortune Sword
Gae Blog
Hell Fire
Gakkung[2]
Gungnir
Haedonggum[2]
Hatii Claw
Jamadhar[1]
Katzbalger
Krieg
Ledger of Death
Lich's Bone Wand
Long Horn
Long Mace
Nagan
Saber[3]
Schweizersabel
Staff of Bordeaux
Sucsamand
Survivor's Rod
Tablet
Tae Goo Lyeon
Wand of Occult
Weihna
Zweihander

Headgear
Banana Hat
Brown Paperbag Hat
Christmas Tree Hat
Coronet
Corsair
Crown
Cute Ribbon
Drooping Alicel Hat
Gemmed Sallet[1]
Helm[1]
Jewel Crown
Lady Tanee Doll
Pipe
Potted Muka
Sleeper Hat
Spiky Band
Weird Pumpkin Hat
Western Grace
Ygg Crown

Armor
Angel's Reincarnation
Angelic Cardigan
Angelic Guard
Angelic Protection
Bone Plate
Eagle Wing
Formal Suit[1]
Greaves[1]
Heavenly Maiden Robe
Holy Robe
Legion Plate Armor[1]
Mage Coat
Pauldron
Valk Shoes


Accessory
Morrigane's Belt
Morrigane's Pendant
Spiritual Ring
Safety Ring

Pet
Golden Bell
Grave Keeper's Sword
Monkey Circlet
Punisher

Misc
Flashlight
Baphomet Doll
Blade Lost in Darkness
Young Twig
Hard Skin
Masque of Tutankhamen
Old Hilt
Bloody Edge

Edited by huad, 21 January 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[asayuu]

B> +20 Buckler [0].

Then we need to make a way to transform "safe to 7" in just "safe refine". But to this we need to make gear disappear.

Low tier gear disappearing won't help so much.

Maybe the solution would be something like... Create new gear tiers.

Now look something curious:

http://db.irowiki.or...type=2&sort=3,1

This is a list of all the armors in the game. Look how only 11 armors in the game are better than the Eden Armor 4.

Of course, in tiers, things like amount of slots, effects and such matter, but in this case, I posted the straight list with only defense as the main factor.

Look how Eden Armor 4 is a "Full Plate of Champion" without weight or class restriction. Why would I use a full plate if I can get a better version for free, and can use them on my dancers? D:

Maybe those "special sets", like Morpheus, Magni, Goibne, could get some kind of "upgrade" to encourage their refining. All of them require mostly unslotted gears to have effect, and yeah, they lose to most carded gears.

And maybe updated minimum levels. Spawns of Thanatos are level 120ish, but their gears are only good to pre-trans... this if not outclassed by Eden. Maybe if diabolus pieces were unslotted... They would fail as much as the unslotted pieces like Goibne...

Hmm... maybe only adding slot on the unslotted pieces... May it be enough? Either a slot or a on-refinement effect.

[IronFist]

so guild loot now comes with free upgrade to +7 certs
what about the players who dont woe? or are not guild leaders best friends?

http://forums.irowik...ead.php?t=86056
Check out the treasure updates before going a head and attempting to increase guilds coffers

some people shouldnt control such large fund as to where they buy all the mvp cards in the game just from guild treasure which is sold rather then shared. *greed*

Its a nice idea in theory, in practice well, guild cost arnt that much and GR/DR/Maya purples from ocas, GOD ITEMS PIECES and the main out goings are slim whites which cost 2-3k to make.

Why not have the "investment system" use these surplus guild gears.
and extend eden badges to be traded for certs. increase the mvp/monster drops to get more badges ?

gear which sell for 10zeny is a good place to start

mufflers and chainmails should be sold to the npc with overcharge... elu costs about the same as chainmail

Edited by IronFist, 21 January 2012 - 06:27 AM.

[Carp]

Super old gears like mufflers, guards, chainmails, etc. are beyond redemption, they will just flood the market with more certificates. Just include gears that are MVP dropped or gears that arent as old as my mother. And can you please change certificates into something else? Certificates are the #1 culprit of gears not selling.

[RegalPrime]

One of my biggest complaints about certain items is not only their vendability, but their NPC prices. You complain about chain mails / padded armors / Odins Stuff, but you can still sell them to an NPC for 30k+. I have TONS of new world equips (lunak, cursed lyre, etc etc,) and they sell for a MASSIVE 10z. There are also a lotta MVP items that arent in the merry badger and those also have NPC prices of 10z. Database is down atm, but I could make a nice list of new world gears that I can no longer sell and its not worth NPCing them as well.

Lunakaligo
Cursed Lyre
Bone Plate
Horn of Hillslion

I also have to mention that these are items droped by higher level monsters and should be worth more.

Edited by RegalPrime, 21 January 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[Sackof]

Valk - [1] Boneplate 250,000z
Valk - [1] bradium Shield 800,000z
Valk - [3] Lunakangio 150,000z
valk - [3] gladius 150,000z
valk - [3] cursed lyre 100,000z

[Charon]

Gravity korea should implement a system where NPC consumes same type of equip from inventory to safe upgrade an equipped one.


You don't wanna have it like this where there will always be lists of eq that works to adjust as values change...
Not to mention it still doesn't solve the main issue with safe certificates: you still only need 1 of the thing you are upgrading.


Why do I still come here...

Edited by Charon, 21 January 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[Blubba]

• Ymir Chainmail [1] ~ 50k
• Ymir Manteau [1] ~ 70k
• Ymir Guard [1] ~ 5k
• Ymir Buckler [1] ~ 15k
• Ymir Shoes [1] ~ 35k
• Ymir Sandals [1] ~ 5k
• Ymir Muffler [1] ~ 50k
• Ymir Boots [1] ~ 30k
• Ymir Heavenly Maiden Robe [1] ~ 15k
• Ymir Saint's Robe [1] ~ 50k
• Ymir Silk Robe [1] ~ 15k
• Ymir Stone Buckler [1] ~ 50k
• Ymir Silver Robe [1] ~ 25k

If they even sell.

Those are just examples what i have mostly in my Storages.
I have quite a lot of old stuff gears most of them upgraded to +7 or below. Lets call them newbie-gears.

[Hrothmund]

Yes I have reports of how many of X item there is, but it doesn't tell me what refine level or what is compounded in them (cards or enchantment).

Right now most every MVP thing can be Eden Merit Badged. .But what of old upgraded gear that is too valuable to NPC, but not powerful enough to be considered as a good purchase on the player market?

Also about the decarding. Yes there is a system of sorts for it, but I think it has a big negative outcome if everything is allowed to decard all at once. What would the server do if 300,000 Thara Frog Cards entered the market, aside from 100% card value crash that it will not get up from for years. Trickling in some sort of decarding certificate would be a more stable approach to it rather than an everybody decard everything now.

I hate to admit it, but a S-Rank box decarder item would be a much better implementation than kRO's "go nuts with everything" approach.

while on the subject of turning old gears into certs, has any consideration been given to turning useless cards into OCA's at like a 100:1 ratio or something? I know we had an event like that a few years ago, and theres probably a valid concern about bots with 10k+ stacks of cards in inventories but um yeah any thoughts?

Also as far as zeni sinks go, i'd love to see these ingame more. I understand not wanting to put say a 2m zeni cost on decarding or w/e and really the absolute best zeni sink you could put ingame is somewhere between 0.1 and 1% tax on merchant vends. That would be the truely successful way to sink zeni as it'd encompass everything ingame. At that point you could probably make white pots etc 10% of their original price to help newer players.

Edited by Hrothmund, 21 January 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[kuyaeze]

Scalpels, Berets..

Although I don't mind Safe to 7 certs, Sp pots (strawberries, blue herbs, etc) would be great. At least the byproduct wouldn't stay permanently on the market because it has constant demand.. i think.

[Heart]

Mostly MVP drops and old headgears. I have 3 storages and a couple carts full of stuff. That means there's still a lot of MVP drops that aren't on the Merry Badger Exchanger.

MVP drops marked in red (purely from my memory, so a cross reference would be good).

Weapon
Assassin Dagger
Broad Sword[2]
Chakram
Cutlus
Dagger of Counter
Doom Slayer
Evil Bone Wand
Fortune Sword
Gae Blog
Hell Fire
Gakkung[2]
Gungnir
Haedonggum[2]
Hatii Claw
Jamadhar[1]
Katzbalger
Krieg
Ledger of Death
Lich's Bone Wand
Long Horn
Long Mace
Nagan
Saber[3]
Schweizersabel
Staff of Bordeaux
Sucsamand
Survivor's Rod
Tablet
Tae Goo Lyeon
Wand of Occult
Weihna
Zweihander

Headgear
Banana Hat
Brown Paperbag Hat
Christmas Tree Hat
Coronet
Corsair
Crown
Cute Ribbon
Drooping Alicel Hat
Gemmed Sallet[1]
Helm[1]
Jewel Crown
Lady Tanee Doll
Pipe
Potted Muka
Sleeper Hat
Spiky Band
Weird Pumpkin Hat
Western Grace
Ygg Crown

Armor
Angel's Reincarnation
Angelic Cardigan
Angelic Guard
Angelic Protection
Bone Plate
Eagle Wing
Formal Suit[1]
Greaves[1]
Heavenly Maiden Robe
Holy Robe
Legion Plate Armor[1]
Mage Coat
Pauldron
Valk Shoes


Accessory
Morrigane's Belt
Morrigane's Pendant
Spiritual Ring
Safety Ring

Pet
Golden Bell
Grave Keeper's Sword
Monkey Circlet
Punisher

Misc
Flashlight
Baphomet Doll
Blade Lost in Darkness
Young Twig
Hard Skin
Masque of Tutankhamen
Old Hilt
Bloody Edge

You forgot sheilds and garments

also

Survivor's Manteua ( Ktullx MVP)
Sacred Mission (Ktullx)
Ant Jaws(Phreeoni)

[Susan]

Ymir

1.) MVP drops, for Eden Badges:
Hat (all worthless)

• Jewel Crown <100,000
• Corsair <100,000
• Banana Hat <100,000
• Coif [1] <100,000
• Coronet <100,000
• Bone Helm [0] <100,000
• Pipe <100,000

Weapon

• Poll Axe [1] 500,000
• Dagger of Counter 500,000
• Doom Slayer [1] <100,000
• Gakkung [2] <100,000
• Hellfire 1,000,000
• Wand of Occult <100,000
• Long Horn [1] 1,000,000
• Fortune Sword 750,000
• Katzbalger <100,000
• Survivors Rod [1] (dex) <100,000
• Great Axe 500,000
• Exorciser 1,000,000
• Edge 1,000,000

Armor

• Glittering Jacket [1] 1,000,000
• Formal Suit [1] 1,000,000
• Holy Robe 1,000,000
• Mage Coat <100,000

• Morriganes Pendant 500,000
• Morriganes Belt 500,000
• Spiritual Ring 500,000
• Safety Ring <100,000

Shield

• Sacred Mission 500,000

Garment

• Eagle Wing [1] <100,000

2.) Other Crap:

• Bone Plate [1] <100,000
• Heavenly Maiden Robe [1] <100,000
• Legion plate Armor [1] <100,000
• Greaves [1] <100,000
• Lokis Muffler acc bound
• Asprika
  

3.) Mora Recycler for AB and Warlock Gear.


...
But I don't think there should be more +7 certs.
I'd rather suggest a Merit Badge exchange, weekly changing, for Consumable Kafra Shop Items, so people can test them out.