216 replies to this topic

[Soulkyoko]

Got tired of waiting for a post and decided I'll do it.

Wanted to know if I had the right idea as to which suit my needs(survival skills for mvping). As far as I know...(from best to worst)

Sera: The paralyzer-1v1 Pvm; Pain killer is a +1 for survival
Eira: The support-PvM AOE; Light of Regen is a +1 if I slip up and die XD
Dieter: The all-rounder, 1v1+aoe-PvM,possible PVP with ash? ; has a great defense skill
Eleanor: The DPS beast-1v1 PvM; no idea if CBC's 100% weakness would affect an mvp =/
Bayeri: The tank of em all; I don't think safety wall is worth it

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Oh and my homun is a vanil btw.
EDIT:Already changed into Eira, couldnt resist those restore effects =]

Edited by Soulkyoko, 25 January 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Isn't Dieter a better tank than Bayeri?

[Soulkyoko]

I honestly have no idea. Said he was a tank mostly because I kept thinking of bayeri as the "new" amistr, no other reason or backing for it sorry. I figured dieter's 10% reduc wouldn't apply since you lose 30% hp after its finished.

Edited by Soulkyoko, 25 January 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

I honestly have no idea. Said he was a tank mostly because I kept thinking of bayeri as the "new" amistr, no other reason or backing for it sorry. I figured dieter's 10% reduc wouldn't apply since you lose 30% hp after its finished.

You prolly would want to still get Dieter because he inflicts Ash status which causes skills to fail 50% of the time. It looks really overpowered in a WoE/PvP setting.

[DrAzzy]

Moved this to AI forum. Let's keep all the homun S stuff in one place.

Here's my analysis (name in paren is what I propose people call them when talking on vent, since the names are hard for humans to pronounce)

Sera (Bug) - It all comes down to whether painkiller can be used on friendlies. If it can, Sera is the best homun S. Also, summoning swarms of bugs sounds fun. Needle of Paralysis does good damage, but requires so much sp you won't get to use it much. Poison mist will be great for precasts, but only if it does good damage - and damage specs aren't known yet! Seems kinda useless in PVM.

Eria (Fairy) -
Overed Boost is a Good Thing - but not as useful in PVP/WoE.
Ray of Regen - Sweet, so I can turn kafra points into loyalty?! No, no, you can turn loyalty into something you could buy with kafra points. Huh? Why would I want to do that? Oh, yeah, I wouldn't. This skill is junk
Targeted damage caps out at 1000% matk wind, 1200% matk neutral, AoE damage 700% matk wind 900% neutral.
Is matk high enough for this to be good? Experience with pre-Homun S lif's seems to suggest otherwise.

Dieter (Rock) - 10% damage reduction is really strong. This is going to be hard to level though, due to the lack of offensive skills. Volcanic Ash looks OP in woe. Magma flow will be useful when you can get it.

Bayeri (Unicorn? "Derpicorn"?) - 1000% physical damage that can be holy makes this the highest physical damaging homun S other than the catgirl. The 1750% matk AoE puts the fairy to shame. Neither of these will kill anyone in WoE... but the safetywall cast looks pretty handy.


Eleanor (Boxer? Catgirl?) - This will have no AI support for longer than the others. I've got no clue how well it will perform. Note that we can't check how many spheres it has, unless the API has been updates. Damage output looks like it could be absolutely incredible. This may be the PVM king.


Comment on synergies with Pre-S homuns:

Amistr and Filer are the winners in terms of skills - both beg to be evolved into a physical attack-based one, like catgirl or unicorn to take full advantage of stacking their attack buff with the new attack skills.
Rock needs something with an attack skill, i'd say, in order to be useful. So either Filer or Vani.

Lifs are very weak on atk, so they're pretty limited if you want to level them. The obvious options are either Eria (to compensate for the low homun aspd, and use the matk-based attack skills)

Filer and Vani seem good choices overall - Vani's get the best stats, and I think this tilts the balance in their favor for most purposes. Particularly the high int, which means that they will actually have an SP pool to speak of - something Filers are weak on.

Unfortunately for the lifs, a vani will often have higher matk than a lif! This, combined with the fact that Urgent Escape is useless for genetics, and the lacklustre restoration from Healing Touch, makes lifs suitable for little (other than being the subject of perverted fan-fic's).

Edited by DrAzzy, 25 January 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Soulkyoko]

Ah, wished I went bayeri then, had no idea he could aoe too. Oh well, so far so good on your AI with vanil->eira, having no problems with it. Thanks alot btw

[DrAzzy]

Ah, wished I went bayeri then, had no idea he could aoe too. Oh well, so far so good on your AI with vanil->eira, having no problems with it. Thanks alot btw

It's splash-around-a-target I think.

[DrAzzy]

Ah, wished I went bayeri then, had no idea he could aoe too. Oh well, so far so good on your AI with vanil->eira, having no problems with it. Thanks alot btw

Are the autocasts working?!

Caprice autocast should not be working. If it is, please hit me with a two-by-four until I lose consciousness, because it indicates a nearly hopeless situation, combined with reports from other players.

[meoryou2]

Eria (Fairy) -
Overed Boost is a Good Thing - but not as useful in PVP/WoE.
Ray of Regen - Sweet, so I can turn kafra points into loyalty?! No, no, you can turn loyalty into something you could buy with kafra points. Huh? Why would I want to do that? Oh, yeah, I wouldn't. This skill is junk
Targeted damage caps out at 1000% matk wind, 1200% matk neutral, AoE damage 700% matk wind 900% neutral.
Is matk high enough for this to be good? Experience with pre-Homun S lif's seems to suggest otherwise.

Overed boost on an autocast pure VIT genetic might be fun run up and just autocast wail away on someone @ 189 ASPD, plus with a flee of 500 you are almost as non ctrl-clickable as a GX ( like the ranger QQ thread about WS having to actually HIT to do damage - should be able to flee the physical portion of GoH maybe even? ).

Plus "While under the skill effect, your attack speed and evasion cannot be influenced by skills or items." slow grace won't slow you down, dispel won't work like it does on frenzy Dec AGI won't work either.... sounds pretty neat to me.

At level 99 1200% MATK on my Eira means I will do 4.9K neutral damage against a target - better than vani doing caprice currently plus there will be the stat growth yet from leveling since you have to be level 6 to get it.

EDIT: one other thing I noticed, you can now rename your homunculus at least one more time if you want to change it's name.

Edited by meoryou2, 25 January 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Soulkyoko]

Yea, shes autocasting like hell on ant eggs XD Honestly, the only problem I get is that she doesnt return by my side after shes finish killing(which may be my fault, still checking). If you hit me up I can show ya, online for 4 or so hrs.

Edited by Soulkyoko, 26 January 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[DrAzzy]

At level 99 1200% MATK on my Eira means I will do 4.9K neutral damage against a target - better than vani doing caprice currently plus there will be the stat growth yet from leveling since you have to be level 6 to get it.

Yeah - but the matk doesn't grow much, and the Derpicorn gets an AoE that does 1750% matk, and a single target that does 1200% physical, holy endowable. 1200% physical is 7-8k.

[Bashin]

i choose Dieter, even though i already had an amistr, just makes it extra tanky imo

[Uruwashii]

i choose Dieter, even though i already had an amistr, just makes it extra tanky imo

This is also what I'm doing... The hardest route to level imo as it's pretty much pre-trans sin leveling

[Drak231]

I'm hesitating between Amistr and Lif. The 2 have ultimate skills which don't decrease intimacy points. Since I only play casually, I like that.

Lif over vanil in terms of int because of her ulimate skill.

Also, one of filir skill (according to irowiki) doesn't work.


I'd go either :
Amistr => Dieter or Eleanor
Lif => Beyeri / Eira
As for the 5th one (Sera), it doesn't really matter which one I choose.

Amistr or Lif?

[DrAzzy]

I'm hesitating between Amistr and Lif. The 2 have ultimate skills which don't decrease intimacy points. Since I only play casually, I like that.

Lif over vanil in terms of int because of her ulimate skill.

Also, one of filir skill (according to irowiki) doesn't work.
Amistr or Lif?

Neither.

Lif's final skill is useless - it doesn't actually increase damage due to changes in the matk formula, and it has a FIFTEEN MINUTE COOLDOWN DURING WHICH NO SKILLS AT ALL CAN BE USED.
Amistr's final skill would be useful EXCEPT THAT IT HAS A TWENTY MINUTE COOLDOWN AFTER CAST DURING WHICH NO SKILLS CAN BE USED.

Amistr Bulwark, and the Filir buff skills have the same problem, as does Urgent Escape

Unless we get the cooldowns changed to be skill-specific cooldowns (it's unclear if they're supposed to be like this - on kRO Sak, at some point, they were changed to be skill-specific, but it's unclear if it ever made it to mains even on kRO). This bull-_- aftercast delay destroys the usefulness those skills completely - they're things you'd never want to use.

Viewed like this, the Lif has only her passive skill, Amistr has only passive skill + castling, Filer has only moonlight, and vani has passive skill + caprice.

Old faithful - the vanilmirth - is the way to go. It's the only one with a ranged attack, which casts instantly - so you can use it while mobbed. Plus, they get the best stat growth.

Filer->Deiter might be good (maybe flitting would be good for a Deiter who doesn't have any attack skills that they'd be using in combat?)

Edited by DrAzzy, 27 January 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[Drak231]

Neither.

Lif's final skill is useless - it doesn't actually increase damage due to changes in the matk formula, and it has a FIFTEEN MINUTE COOLDOWN DURING WHICH NO SKILLS AT ALL CAN BE USED.
Amistr's final skill would be useful EXCEPT THAT IT HAS A TWENTY MINUTE COOLDOWN AFTER CAST DURING WHICH NO SKILLS CAN BE USED.

No skills at all? Or just Healing Hands/Urgent Escape? Also, according to irowiki, you could vaporize and call Lif back to spawn mental charge each 4 minutes (before the skill ends). Again, according to irowiki, the skill delay of Amistr is 900 sec - 300 sec duration = 600 sec = 10 mins.

Also, even if the damage is minimal when using the skill, you should still get the 60 int bonus (Matk) which can be used with the skills of Beyeri/Eira (right?).

Amistr Bulwark, and the Filir buff skills have the same problem, as does Urgent Escape

They don't work? If so, it should be added on the wiki.

Unless we get the cooldowns changed to be skill-specific cooldowns (it's unclear if they're supposed to be like this - on kRO Sak, at some point, they were changed to be skill-specific, but it's unclear if it ever made it to mains even on kRO). This bull-_- aftercast delay destroys the usefulness those skills completely - they're things you'd never want to use.

So Urgent Escape has a 20 sec duration and 35 sec cooldown. 15 sec is not that much of a deal (I don't Woe).

Amistr bulwark's after cast delay is not indicated in the wiki, how much is it?

Viewed like this, the Lif has only her passive skill, Amistr has only passive skill + castling, Filer has only moonlight, and vani has passive skill + caprice.

Old faithful - the vanilmirth - is the way to go. It's the only one with a ranged attack, which casts instantly - so you can use it while mobbed. Plus, they get the best stat growth.

Filer->Deiter might be good (maybe flitting would be good for a Deiter who doesn't have any attack skills that they'd be using in combat?)

So, from what I understand, every time a skill is used, no other skills can be used in the after-cast delay?

Edited by Drak231, 27 January 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[DrAzzy]

No skills at all? No homun skills, period. Both homun and homun s skillsAlso, according to irowiki, you could vaporize and call Lif back to spawn mental charge each 4 minutes (before the skill ends)this was nerfed, stays when you vap/recall now. Again, according to irowiki, the skill delay of Amistr is 900 sec - 300 sec duration = 600 sec = 10 mins.I counted 20 mins from the moment I cast it during which i couldn't use skills.

Also, even if the damage is minimal when using the skill, you should still get the 60 int bonus (Matk) which can be used with the skills of Beyeri/Eira (right?).
It would be useful, except that IT HAS A SKILL DELAY SEVERAL TIMES ITS DURATION so you can't use it with the skills of those homuns.


They don't work? If so, it should be added on the wiki.
I said they had a skill delay that blocks all other homun skills from being used. They work fine, they're just useless because they keep you from using skills



So Urgent Escape has a 20 sec duration and 35 sec cooldown. 15 sec is not that much of a deal (I don't Woe).It's not that you can't recast it, it's that you can't use any homun skills during that time - so the homun can do nothing except walk around real fast and use normal attacks. Also, UE is made irrelevant by the genetic skill Cart Boost, which gives you the same fast move speed.

Amistr bulwark's after cast delay is not indicated in the wiki, how much is it?
Probably the duration of the skill


So, from what I understand, every time a skill is used, no other skills can be used in the after-cast delay?
Correct - the pre-Homun S homun buff skills all have punishingly long after cast delay, that prevents the homun from using any other skills - hence making them useless, because they make your homun (effectively) weaker instead of stronger.

Edited by DrAzzy, 27 January 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Uruwashii]

So, from what I understand, every time a skill is used, no other skills can be used in the after-cast delay?

yes

http://forums.warppo...obal-cooldowns/

[Drak231]

I'll edit the wiki then >.<

Thxs for the info!

Also, is this going to change? Because it pretty much breaks the purpose of all the skills....

[DrAzzy]

I'll edit the wiki then >.<

Thxs for the info!

Also, is this going to change? Because it pretty much breaks the purpose of all the skills....

I'm going to hassle Oda about it next time I see him on Spark.
I'll try to convince them to do an interim fix (remove delays entirely) until we can get skill-specific cooldowns from kRO.

Edited by DrAzzy, 27 January 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[Drak231]

Okay, I guess I'll wait for the change (if they ever come) then!

Thxs!

[jokerspades]

Is Sera's skill paralyzing needle an AoE skill? or splash?

also... anyone know how much damage poison mist causes?

Edited by jokerspades, 27 January 2012 - 03:24 PM.

[DrAzzy]

Re Homun delay:

Oda: Good night everybody. Azzy, I just sent up the email to Heim right now.
Oda: Not sure what things we'll be able to do without kRO assistance, but it never hurts to look.

Is Sera's skill paralyzing needle an AoE skill? or splash?

also... anyone know how much damage poison mist causes?

Single target, pretty sure it's not splash? Would be OP if it did splash damage, like, seriously OP.

Mist looks like 200% atk, or maybe a little more. AoE is pretty big though.

Edited by DrAzzy, 28 January 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Soulkyoko]

Is Sera's skill paralyzing needle an AoE skill? or splash?

also... anyone know how much damage poison mist causes?

I think her needle affects one per monster, no aoe/splash and I've got an eira, not sera so no idea on posion mist.

[Drak231]

Now that the global cooldown thingy has been changed :

I'm hesitating between Amistr and Lif. The 2 have ultimate skills which don't decrease intimacy points. Since I only play casually, I like that.

Lif over vanil in terms of int because of her ulimate skill.

Also, one of filir skill (according to irowiki) doesn't work.


I'd go either :
Amistr => Dieter or Eleanor
Lif => Beyeri / Eira
As for the 5th one (Sera), it doesn't really matter which one I choose.

Amistr or Lif?