210 replies to this topic

[LethalJokeChar]

I think ive posted before bout what i thought but i wanna add didnt at one time we have the same type of discussions on OP classes when ro first got advanced classes or is it just me noticing this >___<

I believe so. And you know what else? People still talk about how some of the trans skills are OP.

[Quix]

I quit RO a while back and after trying out the test server I think I'm going to come back. I'm optimistic about Renewal but there are a few things that I think are important to work on. Most important being the translation, especially the 3rd class skill descriptions which are nearly completely impossible to understand (and overly long).

I look forward to playing renewal, but the big question is to go back to valkryie where I have everything under the sun or make a new character on Yggdrasil (and save some money switching to premium, Valkryie = Kafra burn server)... Hmmm interesting choices.

[Darkeshi]

why a 3rd class skill like "Hundred Spears" deals ALOT less dmng than a trans class skill like "Clashing Spiral"?

Hundred spear = 5 hits = around 5-10k of dmg with best weapons - 60sp and blablabla

Clasing spiral = 5hits = around 20k-100+k dmg ... 30sp cost ...

thats kinda sad ...

[Qwazil]

Don't play RO anymore.

Renewal means i come back

[ensignfluke]

One things that stands out to me as something that should be changed in renewal is status immunity. They changed it so it's impossible to get insta-cast(as far as I know at least), which is a good change, but it's still very possible to get status immunity, and with the easiness of getting 100vit on most characters now along with other useful stats, it seems to make a lot of the new, and old, status inflicting skills almost useless and pointless to invest in. Could this possibly be reconsidered so that a lot of skills don't become completely useless when someone has 100vit? Unless they have a card that gives immunity of course. Sames goes for statuses affected by int and other stats.

[Whacko]

Didn't you hear? Everybody is supposed to be immune to every status element in renewal so they can outpot everything, minus gfist that takes 10 seconds to cast and can be easily interrupted.

[Viri]

The more i've been pvping the more I'm feeling like people just need to play some and learn how to play with the new classes. It feels pretty good now after putting about 5-6 hours into pvping. Some stuff is annoying but a lot of classes can just disable that annoying class(and equally be disabled themselves). I like it.

[ensignfluke]

Didn't you hear? Everybody is supposed to be immune to every status element in renewal so they can outpot everything, minus gfist that takes 10 seconds to cast and can be easily interrupted.

=( I'm getting more and more disappointed by renewal. It has a lot of promise, but at the same time too much that just fails.

[Prodigy]

^
People are over stressing this complete immunity to "every status" thing. First of all, it's 100 total [Stat] assuming that your base level equal to the enemy's base level, which will happen when everyone eventually gets 150. But before all that, you're not guaranteed status immunity just from your stats alone. Aside from that, I don't know how many GXs, Mechanics, Rangers, RGs, and possibly RKs would incorporate 100 total int in their builds for freeze immunity. Theoretically, you can get 100 total in a lot of stats, but there's the question of how well it will actually perform in WoE.

And on the bright side, this means that we're no longer confined to unfrozen/deadly armors, which will allow for more diversity in what armor we use.

Besides, Vit status immunity isn't exactly that big of a deal. Sure in preRenewal, Stun and Curse were the main statuses, and vit nicely countered that. But in Renewal, there are a ton of other nastier status effects that are countered by int, dex, agi, luk and even str, and I doubt people could spread out enough points to cover all that.

[Babbles]

Yes. Too many things that fail.

There are only a handful of problems in RO, which could all have been easily addressed 4 years ago through minor monster rebalance, some skills tweaks, and some equipment changes. Not a lot of changes, certainly not compared to the size of renewal. The mechanics were fine, and the leveling system was actually pretty good. The EXP curve and the amount of EXP from the monsters already did what the level comparison modifiers are attempting to recreate.

Instead of fixing what they had, the dev team seems to have decided it was too monumental a task, so they copied a leveling and mechanics system out of a different game, and recreated RO in the image of every other MMORPG out there. They then seem to have decided that making level the ultimate deciding factor fixed all of the imbalance issues, with very limited testing of 1st, 2nd and trans classes (which some people will still play), and then made a whole new bunch of classes designed around the new system.

For those who say, "I quit but now I'll come back because of renewal!" Why did you quit in the first place?

You didn't like the grind? It's still there, just shifted to the higher levels.... Oh wait, it was ALWAYS in the higher levels.

You didn't like how you needed proper card combos to have the best weapons? Well, that's taken care of. Forget the cards, just get the lvl 4 weapon with the highest ATK. Everybody needs a new arsenal. What was good now sucks, what sucked is now awesome.

You couldn't figure out your character build? No problem. Builds are now all AGI, and DEX. Some INT for Wizzies, Priests and Hunters, some VIT for everyone else. Everyone should have a little bit of LUK.

You didn't like the fact you needed rare items? Tough nuts. You need them more than ever now, if you want a good weapon. Oh, and you get penalized while trying to hunt them up too.

You didn't like that rare cards could make other players into "gods"? Maybe you should have played more to realize they didn't, but no problem. Ghostring and GTB aren't as good as they were, so you can laugh at all who ponied up the big bucks for them. Deviling is still good. Oh, and despite the nerfs, the people with GR and GTB are still going to be "gods" compared to you.

You didn't like that certain classes could just pwn in WoE? Not to worry. Certain classes will still pwn in WoE. They'll just be slightly different classes, that's all.

So what made you quit is probably still there. Meanwhile, what made RO unique and interesting is tipped on its head or tossed in the trash.

[Prodigy]

I'm reserving my judgement for Renewal PvP/WoE until we actually get Renewal on the main servers. If there's anything that my EP 12.0-13.1 testings on Sakray has taught me, is that test server PvPs are just plain stupid and that it doesn't work anywhere near like that in the real servers.

[Wanderer]

why a 3rd class skill like "Hundred Spears" deals ALOT less dmng than a trans class skill like "Clashing Spiral"?

Hundred spear = 5 hits = around 5-10k of dmg with best weapons - 60sp and blablabla

Clasing spiral = 5hits = around 20k-100+k dmg ... 30sp cost ...

thats kinda sad ...

Why Guillotine Fist does more damage than any trans skill?

That logic doesn't work just because a skill is trans category doesn't mean it will be better than a 2nd or even 1st class skill in some cases.

[ZeroTigress]

RO has always been illogical in that the higher level you are, the crappier the stuff you get. (Item drops and skills-wise.)

[LethalJokeChar]

RO has always been illogical in that the higher level you are, the crappier the stuff you get. (Item drops and skills-wise.)

Uh... not true.

For the skills, it's pretty much your fault if you pick crappy ones or ones that do not work well with your other skills or stats.

The items isn't true at all. Rather, there is generally a mix of various items that are extremely useful, somewhat useful, and rubbish throughout all levels.

Take low levels: poring card, slot guard, pupa card, roda frog card

High levels: ring of flame lord, wool scarf, scalpel, flame skull card, banshee card, kasa card...

[ZeroTigress]

You have me on the skills, but I still stand on items, especially gears. Explain to me what a level 15 player is supposed to do with a piece of gear that has a minimum requirement of being level 70 to equip, but got dropped from a level 15 monster? Or how about why a high level monster would carry around a weapon that is more useful to a level 12 player than a level 100 player?

Regardless of their actual in-game value, I have to wonder what goes through the developers' minds when coming up with these ideas.

[LethalJokeChar]

What the hell are you talking about? What lv 15 monster? What gear?? No lv 15 monster drops like any high level equips. The only thing I can think of is "poring hat", which has a lv 38 requirement. But 2 things I got to say to that. 1) it's useless. 2) you normally fight lower level monsters, so I'd imagine most players might be around at least lv 30 before they kill marins anyway...


And as for high level monsters.... yes, the junk you get from them is most likely just a booby prize of some sorts. Crap you probably normally leave on the ground or sell to NPCs. Or maybe it has a counterpart weapon of the same type that is actually good, thus you have to waste more time using a magnifier on it or seeing the change in weight it gives you. Or better yet, could just be the strongest 4 slot weapon...

[KriztanAlizun]

Lol I'm hating that I'm coming to terms with the fact that I need more than 80 dex on my Genetic. Might need 120!!! The skills are just so slow.

[Akin]

Simply put, the game got too easy with renewal, Lowering the EXP curve to level faster at 90~99 was a GREAT change, making it so you can get the exp without even trying? Terrible.

I shudder to think how easy NI might be right now, I know thors can be still pretty mean, but even then there damage is still slightly lower than it is now, and you'll be able to dish out way more in return on there now-lower HP and such.

I agree, and even Thor's is easy. As a 120 AGI Minstrel with a mocking, I was able to walk around level 3 and kill things in 1 or 2 hits of Severe Rainstorm (with a bad weapon). I was dodging all the normal mobs (including the sword guarding and salamander in frenzy) and only died when Byrogue came and wiped me (I'm glad to see he's a lot stronger than pre-renewal).

I would much prefer more challenging maps such as Bio3 pre-renewal. The reason why monster attack became so broken (12K damage from centipedes), is because of the broken trans skill Assumptio. Now that Assumptio is fixed, adjust the monsters attack accordingly. Don't make so a frenzied sword guarding only hits me once every 5 seconds on a Minstrel.

All in all, Renewal is a step ahead, and I like the game much better now than pre-renewal. It certainly has its flaws but they can be fixed and tweaked. Things that need to be revised are:

* Experience chart/EXP rates - Leveling would be perfect with 2x-3x rates during early~mid levels; however, it is still harsh for the higher levels, especially that monsters of lvl 115+ have much more HP and atk. 0,02% per monster is not really a way to go.
* Party-Share system - Needs serious overhaul. Bonus for each member of the party should be much higher or soloing will be much more efficient.

I agree with these two most of all. Considering how little EXP you get per monster at higher levels of the 3rd class, I would suggest the following which should promote party play without the negative aspects of losing EXP per hour or having a build that isn't party friendly:

1 person - 100% EXP
2 people - 60% EXP per person
3 people - 65% EXP per person
4 people - 70% EXP per person
5 people - 75% EXP per person
6 people - 80% EXP per person
7 people - 85% EXP per person
8 people - 90% EXP per person
9 people - 95% EXP per person
10 people - 100% EXP per person
11 people - 105% EXP per person
12 people - 110% EXP per person

This would work better, IMO, before iRO sanctioned multi-clienting, but I suppose if 4 people want to triple-client and drag 2 alts each, then they can be rewarded as well.

Last but not least, I was hoping that RO will get a new fresh look with introduction of renewal, I am glad that we got upgraded interface and booking system, but the thing that I was waiting for was DX9 support since RO uses only DX7 files - Flame me if I am wrong. Having a Day/Night system, changing weather and some fancy lighting in the game would make RO's graphic richer and even more unique. I hope that this day will come sometime in the future.

I would love this.

One things that stands out to me as something that should be changed in renewal is status immunity. They changed it so it's impossible to get insta-cast(as far as I know at least), which is a good change, but it's still very possible to get status immunity, and with the easiness of getting 100vit on most characters now along with other useful stats, it seems to make a lot of the new, and old, status inflicting skills almost useless and pointless to invest in. Could this possibly be reconsidered so that a lot of skills don't become completely useless when someone has 100vit? Unless they have a card that gives immunity of course. Sames goes for statuses affected by int and other stats.

What they need to do is give better rewards for going over 100 base in any particular stat, that will lean people away from trying to make a completely status resistant character (I predict a lot of level 150 Shadow Chasers with this type of build).

^
People are over stressing this complete immunity to "every status" thing. First of all, it's 100 total [Stat] assuming that your base level equal to the enemy's base level, which will happen when everyone eventually gets 150. But before all that, you're not guaranteed status immunity just from your stats alone. Aside from that, I don't know how many GXs, Mechanics, Rangers, RGs, and possibly RKs would incorporate 100 total int in their builds for freeze immunity. Theoretically, you can get 100 total in a lot of stats, but there's the question of how well it will actually perform in WoE.

And on the bright side, this means that we're no longer confined to unfrozen/deadly armors, which will allow for more diversity in what armor we use.

Besides, Vit status immunity isn't exactly that big of a deal. Sure in preRenewal, Stun and Curse were the main statuses, and vit nicely countered that. But in Renewal, there are a ton of other nastier status effects that are countered by int, dex, agi, luk and even str, and I doubt people could spread out enough points to cover all that.

The fact that you can be 150 with 100 in most of your stats is what I don't like about the new status resistance formula. Status effects are the 1 equalizer in the game regardless of base level. Now, if you're a lower level than the person you're fighting, you can almost completely forget about using status in order to gain any sort of advantage. It then just turns into a DPS battle with little skill or thought involved.

[Talvis]

There are 2 ways they can address the drop penalty issue:
1) get rid of the penalty
2) redo all the monster drops so that low level monsters aren't dropping stuff that high level charas need or that more high level monsters drop some of the things like stems, etc.

[KriztanAlizun]

Why Guillotine Fist does more damage than any trans skill?

That logic doesn't work just because a skill is trans category doesn't mean it will be better than a 2nd or even 1st class skill in some cases.

I feel you homie. I did a 6 or 9k acid terror. Shocked the hell out of me.

[Cleffy]

I have some gripes on a few system changes.

The first one I think is just plain stupid, the damage reduction formula. Its purely balanced on end-game playing. In order for it to be effective you need gear that you get well passed the early levels. Before renewal atleast you could get the gear early on. It makes certain play styles unplayable at the beginning such as the tank. While on the other hand flee based builds use a formula that accounts for all level ranges. The only plausible argument you can make in favor of this is that the stat based damage reduction is more effective at early level so the new player does not constantly need to purchase new gear. However, I think it was done for a far worse reason. Gravity did not want to take the 2 seconds it takes to think about how to balance a proper formula that accounts for all levels, and they had no intention to avoid making the player grind at end-game. Instead of making a linear progression system they opted for an exponential time commitment system that has been a plague in the genre for 12 years.

The second one has to do with the effects of stats. The original intention of the stat system changes was to make hybrid builds as effective as concentrated builds. However, with how the stats are focused, the only ones who have to split up their stats is again melee classes. Archers and Mages can still get by with only using 2 stats while all melee have to atleast concentrate on 3. The reason for this is that the benefits of Dex and Int once again encompass everything. The designers of the systems must really love ranged classes, because its the only way to explain the stat system and its benefit for these classes over the past 8 years.

Edited by Cleffy, 20 September 2010 - 06:25 PM.

[Hrothmund]

I would much prefer more challenging maps such as Bio3 pre-renewal. The reason why monster attack became so broken (12K damage from centipedes), is because of the broken trans skill Assumptio. Now that Assumptio is fixed, adjust the monsters attack accordingly. Don't make so a frenzied sword guarding only hits me once every 5 seconds on a Minstrel.

Map focuses have changed. Thors is no longer an endgame dungeon, its more like ID3 with some challenging bits. If you want a challenge like pre-RE bio3, well you should head to bio3.

As for stats, the new system works a lot better than the old one. Mage classes can't really get by on 2 120 stats, they need dex/int, but they also need vit/luk, and could also benefit from agi for status resist.

Its like saying a melee class can get by with just str/dex which they can, but its not ideal.

Also a lot of people are blowing the weapon changes out of proportion (looking at sinx/sins mostly). Yes things changed a lot, but in general weapons that used to be effective for a a particular purpose are still just as effective. High def targets are still best done with icepick main and 4x carded MG offhand. A quad 10%/+7 spec jur does just as much damage as an upgraded katar[2] or jur[3]. Some weapons have changed usefulness, but most are still the same.

Its worth pointing out that just about every part of every episode since forever has introduced new weapons/armor that have bumped the previous "best gear" out of the top spot. This isnt something unique to renewal, its been happening every 3-6 months for the last 6 years.

Edited by Hrothmund, 21 September 2010 - 05:30 PM.

[Kadelia]

I leveled to 99 on a gypsy prior to the valkyrie npc. It was lame. Double strafing siroma and stapo etc in the 9x was not even remotely close to a challenge or anything that could be done with a party. It was boring and lame. To 99 trans. They wanted to make 3rd job content balanced and they did so by taking all the fun out of 7x-99 trans.

[Sera]

What I don't like about renewal is that my keyboard needs like twice as many keys than it currently has in order to make use of all the items and skills I have.

Edited by Sera, 23 September 2010 - 12:06 AM.

[Cleffy]

Battle mode Sera, turn Q-P, and A-; into hotkeys aswell.