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Mages: Is there any hope for us?


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#1 Mwrip

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 10:52 PM

I'm currently in a party watching gearless melees outdamage me because melee damage has been massively buffed, and MATK has been nerfed into the ground.

Is there any chance of us getting jRO's MATK... or SOMETHING that doesn't basically delete the mage classes from the game? As it stands, I think caster-heavy players need to find a new MMO with these formulas.
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#2 espeon

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 11:00 PM

I could swear I saw you post this earlierâ?¦ :o
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#3 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:07 AM

...At this point, my only advice to you would be keeping your matk as high as possible. The stronger the staff or wand, the better.

Stats should be Int > Luk > Dex

1 int point: 1.5 matk.
1 luk point: .333 matk
1 dex point: .2 matk.

Soo... what this means is:
Just pump int. When the cost to increase int is equal to or exceeds 4.5x the cost to increase luk, add luk instead.
When the cost to increase int is equal to or exceeds 7.5x the cost to increase dex, add dex.

That pretty much means you won't get above 10 dex until you have 131 int! o_O
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#4 Prodigy

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 05:01 AM

^Sure. . . if you want to seriously gimp your casting time. . .

Anyways, I find it funny that I was doing better damage whacking with my +7 rod than casting my bolts.
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#5 Hrishi

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 05:12 AM

Well, melees do outdamage you because they can afford to buy 4 zipper bears for 20z each xD. Before you say anything, I am playing Mage too, but just pointing out this fact! With better wands, MATK does become slightly better. That being said, jRO's formula would be sweet ^__^
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#6 Cubical

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 05:39 AM

...At this point, my only advice to you would be keeping your matk as high as possible. The stronger the staff or wand, the better.

Stats should be Int > Luk > Dex

1 int point: 1.5 matk.
1 luk point: .333 matk
1 dex point: .2 matk.

Soo... what this means is:
Just pump int. When the cost to increase int is equal to or exceeds 4.5x the cost to increase luk, add luk instead.
When the cost to increase int is equal to or exceeds 7.5x the cost to increase dex, add dex.

That pretty much means you won't get above 10 dex until you have 131 int! o_O



listen to this guy

get as much int as you can and have a really good high upgraded staff
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#7 Prodigy

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 05:45 AM

listen to this guy

get as much int as you can and have a really good high upgraded staff

But if we compare it to atk, you don't even need to get a lot of str/dex, just having a good weapon is enough to do decent damage.
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#8 Doddler

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 06:16 AM

MATK might be changed, but the formula should definitely treat you way better at lower levels. Here's a quick comparison.

Posted Image


The graph shows Average MATK. This is using an evil bone wand upgraded to +6. At level 24 there's little reason not to use it, it costs 20z from the shop and there's a free upgrade NPC. At about ~65 int with this weapon, pre-renewal magic attack formula, but below 65 the results are very much in favor of post renewal, which is why I'm confused about matk complaints at low level. Maybe people forget leveling level 10 mages pre-renewal and having their bolts hit for 1's. :o

Here's another comparison with stronger weapons and higher range of int.

Posted Image

Also, while magic attack formula is reduced, the skills that are available to it as 3rd job are kind of absurd. Many of the skills deal at least 2000% MATK or higher, with additional negative effects. I don't think casters are out of the game, but I do think the MATK formula should be at least reviewed.

Edited by Doddler, 10 September 2010 - 06:20 AM.

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#9 Shinobi

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 09:42 AM

Casters have long been the cream of the crop. Let them sit in the back burner. Once real equips/higher lvls kick in Im sure they will dominate again. Don't buff them now, because that will last through to lvl 150. And at that point, it might be too late to fix.
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#10 Akihiro

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 09:51 AM

Casters have long been the cream of the crop. Let them sit in the back burner. Once real equips/higher lvls kick in Im sure they will dominate again. Don't buff them now, because that will last through to lvl 150. And at that point, it might be too late to fix.

This is partially true, considering the fact that warlocks have huge damage modifiers on their skills.
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#11 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 11:52 AM

Er, that they do. But the cast times are also completely bonkers aren't they? Fixed cast time on Comet, anyone? Even if other classes do not have such huge modifiers, they can SPAM the skills without really being interrupted.

Also... you know what else is funny? Considering that an evil bone wand seems to give so much MATK and well... the portion of damage INT gives seems like practically nothing to it (lets not forget MORE powerful magic weapons you can pick up later), I think this is going to be extremely laughable. Am I wrong in the assumption that in order to do some decent damage, you don't even need very good str or int at all, and just a good weapon? In this case Warlock + Sorcerer might find themselves to be much more productive getting some things like AGI and VIT instead, with some dex for cast time, and then a bit of luk and int for small magic boost.
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#12 ZeroTigress

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:12 PM

Well, melees do outdamage you because they can afford to buy 4 zipper bears for 20z each xD.

My sister and I didn't even have cards on our gears. (Part of the party Mwrip mentioned.)
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#13 Ramen

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:39 PM

I'd just like to point out, it's not as though we currently have ALL of the equips warlocks/sorcerers are ever going to get. I'm fairly confident there's a reason they made the MATK formula the way they did, and I have a feeling it has a lot to do with gears and weapons we'll see in the future.
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#14 Doddler

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 01:07 PM

Also... you know what else is funny? Considering that an evil bone wand seems to give so much MATK and well... the portion of damage INT gives seems like practically nothing to it (lets not forget MORE powerful magic weapons you can pick up later), I think this is going to be extremely laughable. Am I wrong in the assumption that in order to do some decent damage, you don't even need very good str or int at all, and just a good weapon? In this case Warlock + Sorcerer might find themselves to be much more productive getting some things like AGI and VIT instead, with some dex for cast time, and then a bit of luk and int for small magic boost.


Well that is true to a point. It is in fact possible to create a successful character without investing in the primary damage stats. Int is still fairly important, each point of INT gives 1.5 magic attack. It's a linear progression, but you will still be well served by having high amounts of it. Remember that INT is not just a magic attack stat, it also reduces cast time, increases SP and SP recovery, reduces magic damage you take and provides resistance to freeze. In my opinion INT should provide more effect, but it's not a bad stat to get.
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#15 LethalJokeChar

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 02:23 PM

I'd just like to point out, it's not as though we currently have ALL of the equips warlocks/sorcerers are ever going to get. I'm fairly confident there's a reason they made the MATK formula the way they did, and I have a feeling it has a lot to do with gears and weapons we'll see in the future.


My feeling is they have absolutely no clue what they are doing. Completely new system with new mechanics. They will probably just tweak weapon damages and formulas until every class seems balanced and then leave it...

I mean, magic attack is one thing, but then how much damage you ACTUALLY do taking the target's magic defense, reductions, and skill multipliers may be entirely different. I really wish I could try testing in PvP over and over against characters of the same level, gradually increasing mdef and gradually increasing matk.

At the very least, I can comment that, unlike before, once stripped of his or her weapon, a caster will have pitiful damage.

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 10 September 2010 - 02:26 PM.

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#16 Mwrip

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

With what it costs to kick a stat past 100, I can't imagine anyone doing it for int. +5-7% MATK or immunity to multiple status effects, double HP, and some damage reduction?

Even dex is iffy over 100 with its diminishing returns formula. The first 100 will clearly make a huge difference, but after that... meh. The difference between 4% cast time and 2% cast time just isn't going to matter when there's a fixed 20%.

It would appear the ideal lock build is now something like:
105-110 dex
100 int
100 vit
30ish luk
Whatever's left in agi

As for the Lock skills doing 2000% matk, is that per cluster, or total? If it's total, that's weaker than old SG, and barely better than MS and LoV. If it's per cluster, that's a significant boost, but I'm not sure how that stacks up relative to those 3rd job meleers spamming their skills at 193 ASPD.
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#17 Tirasu

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 07:27 PM

I'm going to say that lower level magic casters havn't been nerfed. I mean I couldn't kill rockers with a level 2 firebolt at level 8 pre-renewal, yet I can in renewal with just a +7 rod. However the way melee damage has been change too and it's improvement is alot more noticable thus why you feel magic is underpowered.

It also doesn't help that golems are no long a level 20-odd mob and so there isn't really anything it's faster to take out with magic, because theres no high def. mobs. Right now it's just limited to the hard to hit mobs, such as those higher flee steel chonchons or how untouchable theif bugs feel when they use agi up and your takeing them at a lower level for the boosted exp.

Edited by Tirasu, 10 September 2010 - 07:27 PM.

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