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#1 Winky

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:08 AM

Hello readers out there,

I have been playing Rose Online for nearly two years now, and I have always played in constant fear that "tomorrow" they will announce of new gears and then the
gears I have will be worth nothing and I will become poor.
I tried saving money but it was very very hard to do so because of the constant temptation of using it.
But, Rose Online NA is horrifficly deprogressing from the original JRose Online. They have 4th jobs there, a ton of cool costumes, various hair selections, eye selections, etc. Rose could have been huge it has everything a game needs, a PVP system, craft system, farming system and the point is to war all the time which is great! Hence I assume, you should advance to level 280s (3rd jobs) with plenty of new gear, in other games you can just resell your gear, but since this game is not about leveling BUT about PVPing and waring I suggest as the new gears are out you will make the price of +15 union gears and epic weapons be as same as it was before the patch of the new gears, then players could sell their old gears to the NPCs and not lose money. The amount of union points for items below lv 280 will decrease and the lv 280 items will be as easy to get from union war as they were at lv 200. Aside from that, leveling is very very hard. Most players will quit the game early on because the leveling system takes too long, especially when botting is ilegal and you have to sit in front of the screen 8 hours per day for 2 weeks to max your char, hence I suggest making more activies that will allow you to level rapidly, earn zulie, earn costumes, and have a blast. You can turn the Union War into an exp farm, every kill you make you get about 20% of your level. Every win you participate in you get 1 level up. The process of leveling will be fast and furious. Union Wars will have diffirent levels in them 30-100, 100-150, 150-220, 220-280.(Like in any other game online).
Character modification wise, the variety is very low. In case GMs haven't been to the 2012 most people preffer hair with bangs, (emo hair) (goth hair) (justin bieber hair) all the metrosexual hairstyles that are in EveryGame, lack rose. A game called Maplestory offers character modification systems, plenty of jobs, they update every week with new things. They are 2D since 2004 and still updating, they have total of 13billion characters signed up in game, that is equal to a million to 40 million users, they have 15 servers and 19 channels in each. Rose Online NA is very predated and ancient, it lacks the charm users want nowadays.
Eye modification system lacks variety aswel.The selection is poor and distasteful, chinky eyes, big anime eyes, funny faces are all in other games, BUT ROSE.
Rose Online currently stands for 400 active users plus minus, if you do the modifications I request here by a short period of time you will get to 100k active users or more, innovating and variety is the key to a good online game and it works in every game. Rose Online is Gravity's most appealing game and its not up to stands comparing it to the competition, I think gravity should work on Rose Online as its project and rescue it from self destruction, every day now players are quitting or moving to another game, most of the friends I make in rose don't last a year, every year I have new friends and no friends from last year, because they quitted, rose is gaining popularity while losing it at the same time,no progress will be made, hear my words for I am a long time player in this field, I know what works and what is favored by the masses,
Good day,
MiracleWorker.
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#2 Zurn

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:28 AM

With the introduction of the Crystal Defenders (replacing the current Union/Faction Wars) there will be level tiered system starting at 100 and breaking off every so often and ending with 201-220 for now.

Suggestion - break your large block of text into parts so it can be easily read~
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#3 Winky

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

Very nice Zurnyyy, but what about the rest, what do you think about the other suggestions.
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#4 Kitt

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:01 PM

My understanding is that both Rose NA and JRose evolved from IRose, which was initially developed by Triggersoft. Unless things have changed recently, Faith is still developing JRose, and Gravity develops Rose NA. I don't know all the ins and outs of the development team across the years, but Triggersoft is no longer in the picture, and whatever contract was in place that allowed 'Faith items' (the Priest outfit, Gothic outfit, and other such items) in Rose NA is no longer active (which is why these items are valued so highly by some players).

Gravity took over the development of the game after Triggersoft stopped. Development was quite slow initially, as the new team had to figure out what they had on their hands from the original team. It is not likely that there will be much crossover between Gravity's Rose NA and Faith's JRose. Though there are some similarities in the look and feel of the maps and characters, and some overlap in the mythology and probably early maps, NPCs, quests, and the like, they are really two separate games at this point. Rose NA was never part of JRose. They both developed from the same core game of IRose. I believe that JRose is still developing from the IRose model, and Rose NA took a major divergence with the Evolution update.

I must respectfully disagree with you that Rose is all about PvP and war. There are some of us who don't like the PvP aspect of the game at all, and much prefer the storyline, quest, and exploration aspects. Leveling is not hard, not at all. In fact, if you read through the forum, you will find that many people want the leveling slowed down from the pace that it is now. Personally, I don't understand wanting to max a character in only a week or two, but then again, that might be more appealing to the PvP crowd.

Genesis is working on a massive overhaul of the PvP combat aspect of the game, Game Arena, and I believe these changes will be ready for play-testing soon.

I can't speak to how Rose measures up to other online MMOs. I tried WoW briefly, but didn't like it, and haven't felt any urge to try any other game. Rose might well be dated compared to other games, but I disagree that Rose doesn't have charm. They are releasing new outfits and customization features all the time. Development is slower than other games, but I believe that is because Rose is working with a significantly smaller staff. That is going to impact the pace of development. Right now, I think they are focusing on aspects of server stability, and ensuring that the features already in place are functioning properly (and not causing server crashes or player disconnects). I believe the development team still has concerns about how well balanced the various classes are against each other and against monsters. Every once in a while we have events, and there are updates in the Item Mall (the main place to get costumes) relatively frequently.

It's all well and good to talk about thousands of new users, but Gravity is a business and Rose is one of the ways they make money. As much as it pains me to say it -- Rose isn't Gravity's most popular title. It makes good business sense for them to put the majority of their resources (development teams, servers, etc.) into the titles that are making money for them. Until Rose starts making significantly more money for them, I doubt there will be an increase in the resources that Gravity assigns to this game.
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#5 Winky

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:47 PM

Hello Kitt, Let's be real please. thanks. Rose online is all about PvP exploring and leveling is just a tool to get to the experience of Union Wars, PvPing and other types of wars, leveling and farming is a pain in the ass that everyone is aware of, those who just level characters play with their costumes and farm are understandable for me, and it is being done in other games, except that in rose it is not the case. In other games the leveling process would take 3months- a year. It will be the point of the game, leveling and new skills. Rose doesn't offer amazing graphical features for skills, doesn't offer fun services for leveling, Rose is a mess, I started JRose because its an example of aa Rose Online verison that works well and has thousands of players in it, there is no point for you dismissing my proposal since "leveling and farming" is your thing, but the people who play rose buy gears buy boosters buy pots buy king sets buy epics(or farm for all of those things) in order to be the best of the best in PvP and wars. To some such activities are not appealing but the point of the game is not "Exploring" or "Crafting" all day, there is not much to explore the maps are very poor and few, leveling has no charm to it, skills dont have insanely exciting graphics, the classes are poor, the costumes are few,the character modification system( hair,facial) is poor,its about to die anyminute now, everyday I hear people going on about how they're going to quit and how boring rose is, most people play rose for an hour to 3 hours per day if at all and most certainely would not spend IM on it, since rose needs people to buy IM I buy 30$ per month to help, but if they follow my suggestions they could double their incomes by 1000, all they need to do is work hard and if theres alot of players playing they should hire more staff.
Thanks for expressing your opinion,

Miracleworker,
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#6 Kitt

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:31 AM

I am being real. I don't dismiss your proposal because I like farming. I do not agree that all players of Rose, or that all potential players of Rose, like or will like the PvP aspect of the game. The truth is, we've lost many players because the developmental focus shifted to the PvP aspect. I have full friend lists of people who haven't been on Rose in years because there hasn't been new content or even new development of the core game itself. They got tired of the constant 'rebalancing' that is caused mainly by the PvP part of the game. One of my characters is in a high level (purple) clan where I've seen only two of my clanmates online in the past year. An entire high level clan -- lost to Rose. While some of the players in that clan might have enjoyed PvP on occasion, it was not the main reason they played the game. Oh, and fyi, we farmers and crafters routinely spend more than $30 a month to support the game. I played during the Pay-to-Play days (and would love a return to that, now that the development team is back in action) and use the Item Mall now. So, no, it's not just the PvP crowd that uses the Item Mall.

I don't like the PvP aspect of the game at all. I did my 'PvP' gaming back in the day with tabletop gaming, modules, and dice and find the on-line versions to be quite lacking in depth. I want to see the face of the person I'm vying against. I would rather pit my skill as a gamer now against a well-developed game AI any day. People don't talk about any Union War being challenging or interesting. They complain about how it's unbalanced, because the classes are still unbalanced. It takes no particular skill to do well in a Union War (or so I gather from the forum) it takes deep zulie pockets to afford the best gear refined to the highest level. It takes picking one of the classes that is 'over-powered' and equipping that character right. There is always some level of complaining going on from the PvP end of the game, that some class is inherently over-powered and it's not fair to the rest of the classes. People who are at high level are PvPing because they are bored while waiting for more end-game content and a higher level cap.

If you read the forums, what people keep asking the GMs to do is create more end-game content, more gear, more levels, perhaps the third jobs and their skills, more monsters, more planets. In the meantime, it's not the the Union Wars that people mention on the forums as being particularly fun, it's the Superboss events -- those are memorable to those who like combat.

Combat to me in ROSE is a means to an end. I like figuring out which monsters I can fight who have the materials I need. I like exploring new maps. I love the 'episode quest' or story elements and quests, but they are mostly non-existent after level 100 or so. I like the crafting aspect of the game. What I am waiting for is for the focus of the developers, once the balancing of the classes, the server stability, the new Game Arena and such are finished is to focus back on the quests and the story aspect of the game. How is the conflict between Arua and Hebarn progressing? It's been stagnant for years. What is the deal with the world of Seven Hearts? Are Arua's seven heroes doing what they can to slow Hebarn down, or are they helpless and in need of rescuing from intrepid Visitors who can figure out how to get to Seven Hearts? What are the special challenges to be found in Hebarn's own center of power? What can Visitors do to finally free those poor Zant children from their Soul Crystals? That is what has kept me playing Rose for years.

Many like the PvP aspect of the game. I don't begrudge them that, or the attention of the development team to that aspect of the game. For their sake, I hope that someday the Clan Wars (with the massive dragons) and the Tournament of Champions come back, for those were PvP events that people really seemed to like and the winning of which actually meant the player knew what he or she was doing with his or her character. It wasn't determined only by picking the right class and having the best gear -- there was some skill involved.

ROSE isn't just about PvP. You can't compare Rose NA to JRose, or you will be disappointed. Many of us recall the IRose experience (which JRose more closely resembles) and we miss many aspects of it, but we have been told repeatedly that Rose NA will not go back to the IRose model -- ever. That it is a new game entirely.

What I don't understand, if you prefer fighting against other people one-on-one, and don't like any aspect of Rose other than that, why are you here? You don't like the PvM, you don't like the crafting, you don't like the leveling, you don't like the look of the game, you don't like the maps, you don't like the visuals for the skills, in fact, you don't like anything of the game that is Rose -- you just like fighting other players. Rose did not start with a PvP aspect at all, PvP might have been planned as one component of the game from the start, but Rose was originally designed to be an adventure game. If you do not like any aspects of what remains of that original adventure game, why aren't you playing a game that is only PvP? A game that was developed from the beginning to be a PvP game? Console systems have fighting games, so I'm sure that MMOs do to. Why not find a game that only has the PvP aspect you like, with cool attack graphics, since that is the focus of the game, instead of trying to force a game that has a different focus to become what you want it to be?
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#7 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 07:37 AM

The truth is, we've lost many players because the developmental focus shifted to the PvP aspect. I have full friend lists of people who haven't been on Rose in years because there hasn't been new content or even new development of the core game itself. They got tired of the constant 'rebalancing' that is caused mainly by the PvP part of the game.

what people keep asking the GMs to do is create more end-game content, more gear, more levels, perhaps the third jobs and their skills, more monsters, more planets. In the meantime, it's not the the Union Wars that people mention on the forums as being particularly fun, it's the Superboss events -- those are memorable to those who like combat.

Combat to me in ROSE is a means to an end. I like figuring out which monsters I can fight who have the materials I need. I like exploring new maps. I love the 'episode quest' or story elements and quests, but they are mostly non-existent after level 100 or so. I like the crafting aspect of the game. What I am waiting for is for the focus of the developers, once the balancing of the classes, the server stability, the new Game Arena and such are finished is to focus back on the quests and the story aspect of the game. How is the conflict between Arua and Hebarn progressing? It's been stagnant for years.

I bolded all of the above because it speaks for me and Naughty and others.

[b]ROSE isn't just about PvP. You can't compare Rose NA to JRose, or you will be disappointed.

What I don't understand, if you prefer fighting against other people one-on-one, and don't like any aspect of Rose other than that, why are you here?

Yes, those who make a big deal out of PVP and like to play Rose, it makes no sense. Rose has always been a PVM game with a PVP element. And this is why the developers are failing at making this game strong and vibrant with lots of players and a server busy status. Its because the developers are working on the games weakness and ignoring the games strengths. You don't have to have a masters degree or a degree in business admininstration to see why this game keeps failing at being great, why we keep losing players and it feels like Rose is perpetually on life support. You can't cater to the PVP folks when its only a small part of the game and mechangically the game was designed around adventure and PVM - its obvious as they keep trying and failing to get the balance right. I used to think it was because they were unfamiliar with the game or because they were noobs at something Triggersoft were experts at. Now I know it's because this is fundementally a PVM game and the framework, design and structure isn't right to make it suddenly a fundementally PVP game. You can't turn a boat into a car or visa versa. If you want a boat in the first place, build a boat, and not a car that will float - kinda.

I suppose the term hope springs eternal that some day the staff at Gravity may finally "get it" but month after month, all they do is continue to play on the games weakness for a quick infusion of cash, and then Rose goes back to limping along like a half dead game.

You don't like the PvM, you don't like the crafting, you don't like the leveling, you don't like the look of the game, you don't like the maps, you don't like the visuals for the skills, in fact, you don't like anything of the game that is Rose -- you just like fighting other players. Rose did not start with a PvP aspect at all, PvP might have been planned as one component of the game from the start, but Rose was originally designed to be an adventure game. If you do not like any aspects of what remains of that original adventure game, why aren't you playing a game that is only PvP? A game that was developed from the beginning to be a PvP game? Console systems have fighting games, so I'm sure that MMOs do to. Why not find a game that only has the PvP aspect you like, with cool attack graphics, since that is the focus of the game, instead of trying to force a game that has a different focus to become what you want it to be?

Yep, yep. You say it better than I could. The developers don't like to hear that kind of talk because they still want to turn their PVM Adventure game into a PVP game. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. You can't take a machine that was built as a car, and turn it into an airplane.

Edited by CoffeeMuse, 03 March 2012 - 08:09 AM.

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#8 Winky

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:04 AM

Alright, so many things to respond to.... Alright ummm.
A.I play the game because it does have a certain charm and grace other games dont,it's easy to learn how to operate in rose, plus I've spent so much of my time and effort into this game I don't want to forsaken it, hence I suggested these proposals.
I've been playing for two years and not have I once thought of it as PvM game with PvP aspect, 90% of MMORPGs/MMO games are all about PvM with the PvP aspect, rose does not offer a variety of services, insane graphics, constant innovation like those games in order to be like them PvM game with PvP aspect,is why rose is now PvP game. Other games that are all about PvM and leveling take a long time to level 3month to 1 year time of constant leveling,partying,killing mobs. There every gear is used and the ecconomy is flowing. Rose is nothing like that, if I wanted a PvM game I would've gone to another game. This game is ALLL about PvP, classes are unbalanced and thats misfortunate but that may also be because the variety of character modification and costumizings is poor, there are only 6 diffirent stats and 400 points to invest in each max. There are only 4 Officient types of sets (Reinforce,Chivalrous,Precious,Glorious) that can be used for fighting, ,the rest are used for buff sets and crafting. Costumes are poor, the ecconomy is completely unstable since everyday your items can be worth 1zulie. Again this game is not for PvM since there are so few maps and in those few maps are few monsters devided to only 1 channel in two servers, if everyone would go out and PvM, gather crafting materials and more the game would be a living hell. If this was not understood I am not trying to insult the staff or anyone who likes this game, I support the staff's daily efforts in keeping this game alive, and I don't mind what people do around here for fun. I'm just trying to help this game progress(only reason why I made this post),
Thank you for reading,
MiracleWorker.
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#9 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

A.I play the game because it does have a certain charm and grace other games dont,it's easy to learn how to operate in rose, plus I've spent so much of my time and effort into this game I don't want to forsaken it, hence I suggested these proposals.


I will agree with the first part. I tinkered with a few other MMO games and the basic design, graphics and style, the animation and other things were different and better to me. I will also say, what drew me to Rose back in 2005 was the fact that it was primarliy a PVM game. The PVP aspect is optional, and I generally opted out. I don't care for a game where I go to chill out and have fun and get some guy with a chip on his shoulder in my face.

I've been playing for two years and not have I once thought of it as PvM game with PvP aspect, 90% of MMORPGs/MMO games are all about PvM with the PvP aspect, rose does not offer a variety of services, insane graphics, constant innovation like those games in order to be like them PvM game with PvP aspect,is why rose is now PvP game. Other games that are all about PvM and leveling take a long time to level 3month to 1 year time of constant leveling,partying,killing mobs. There every gear is used and the ecconomy is flowing. Rose is nothing like that, if I wanted a PvM game I would've gone to another game. This game is ALLL about PvP, classes are unbalanced and thats misfortunate but that may also be because the variety of character modification and costumizings is poor, there are only 6 diffirent stats and 400 points to invest in each max.


First, let me disavow you of some misconceptions. Rose is NOT a PVP game with a PVM aspect, no matter how much you want to think of it that way. The math alone tells the store - in terms of map and monster content. The majority of the locations in the game are PVM, from the beginning to the highest level. All three planet have mostly PVM area's. Content-wise, Rose started of and was developed as a PVM game with a PVP element starting back during the beta days of 2003-2005. The game went P2P/commercial Dec 1, 2005.

The reason you have not thought of this game as a PVM game is probably due to two reasons:

1) That is what you are drawn to, so you probably consider the PVM part of the game as the means to and end, PVP. This is why people often rush as quickly through the levels to get to 220 and then burn out fast with the PVP stuff, which the developers keep failing to do properly. All you have to do is read the constant complaints over the past 2 to 4 years, and the constant rebalancing and issues with camping and abuses and so on. I don't personally have any hope that the PVP aspect of the game will ever be perfected, and part of the reason why is the game was built on a PVM framework. The developers did design PVP into the game because they recognized that all MMO's need this to be well rounded, but rose is NOT a PVP game at heart. Some people will never get this, and those that do, leave and find game which are at heart PVP.

2) The second reason you my think of this game as PVP, is that most of the development effort into this game in the past two years has been centered on PVP concerns. It's been over two years since the last major content update was added regarding PVM play, and that would be Orlo Chapter 1: The Golden Ring. After I had exhausted that new content, I have played this game less and less and am pretty bummed that the development of Rose PVM content has essentially become arrested, stopped and I don't think it is any co-incidence that the game has seemed very dead and lifeless now. The developers need to learn that this is not a PVP game at heart, and they can't make it so without a full re-design, which they will never do. People come here thinking this is a PVP game, race to the top, discover the PVP play is very lacking, complain a lot and wander off to find some real meat that they will find satisfying and have some longevity.

You say this game game is ALLLLLL about PVP and then complain the classes being unbalance. Get used to it. They've been trying to balance the classes in PVP play since at least 2009, and here it is 3 years later - I don't think you should have much hope. After years, ad years and years of watching this game go through it's paces, you start to see a pattern. One is a true lack of commitment to vigerous development, it is all half hearted, another is the inability to get the balancing "right". I believe much of this is because they are taking a game that is primarily PVM at it's core and trying to force it into a PVP game - ain't going to happen. People need to get this through their heads.

There are only 4 Officient types of sets (Reinforce,Chivalrous,Precious,Glorious) that can be used for fighting, ,the rest are used for buff sets and crafting. Costumes are poor, the ecconomy is completely unstable since everyday your items can be worth 1zulie. Again this game is not for PvM since there are so few maps and in those few maps are few monsters devided to only 1 channel in two servers, if everyone would go out and PvM, gather crafting materials and more the game would be a living hell. If this was not understood I am not trying to insult the staff or anyone who likes this game, I support the staff's daily efforts in keeping this game alive, and I don't mind what people do around here for fun. I'm just trying to help this game progress(only reason why I made this post),
Thank you for reading,
MiracleWorker.


Hold the phone, there are far more PVM maps than PVP - I'll take some time to enumerate them just to demonstrate this (BRB with that).

-------------
Junon Polis
-------------
Junon PVM Maps
-Adventure Plain
-Goblin Cave B1
-Goblin Cave B2
-Goblin Cave B3
-Valley of Luxem Tower
-Breezy Hills
-Canyon City of Zant
-El Veroon Desert
-Anima Lake
-Junon Polis map
-Forest of Wisdom
-Kenji Beach
-Gorge of Silence
-Oblivion Temple 1
-Oblivion Temple 2
-Oblivion Temple 3
-Oblivion Temple 4
Junon PVP maps
Training Ground
Clan Field
Desert of the Dead
Cave of Ulrich
Union War map

------
Luna
------
Luna PVM maps
-City of Eucar map
-Arumic Valley
-Mt. Eucar
-Mana Snowfield
-Freezing Plateau
-Crystal Snowfield
-Forgotten Temple B1
-Forgotten Temple B2
Luna PVP map(s)
Luna Clan Field

------
Eldeon
------
Eldeon PVM maps
-Xita Refuge
-Shady Jungle
-Marsh of Ghosts
-Forest of Wandering
-Sikuku Underground Prison

Eldeon PVP maps
-Ruins (started as PVM but changed to PVP for the pvpers who didn't even stick around)

------
Orlo
------
-Wreck of the Blinding Mist
-Ring 1
-Ring 2
-Ring 3
-Wasteland Path
-Wasteland N
-Wasteland E
-City of Muris

semi PVP area
-Gates of Muris

So if I counted correctly PVM vs. PVP(corrections welcome):

Junon 17 vs 5
Luna 8 vs 1
Eldeon 5 vs 1
Orlo 8 vs 1

Note I left off maps with no monsters like Dolphin Island, Snow Valley, Santa's Planetoid, but those do have non PVP fun/event stuff.

So if you add it up, there are about 38 vs 8 content maps that are PVM vs PVP just so you can see how the numbers speak for themselves.


But I hope you see that your hopes and desires to turn a care into a boat isn't very practical, and yes, I know the developers want this too, but look at how things have progressed. Square peg into a round hole does not fit very well.

Edited by CoffeeMuse, 03 March 2012 - 09:42 AM.

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#10 Winky

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

Alright, first may I point out that your english is marvelous, I enjoy so much just reading those words :rolleyes:
I never complained about the class unbalanced I said there are only 4 good sets to use so then the selection is poor and not many are diffirent, everyone is the same and no one can be undefeated after years of investigations. I played MapleStory for 5 years, a story all based on PvM since the beta,PvM games have certain aspects, the skills are endless,insane graphics movements etc, while in here the skills are made of 1 or 2 movements no insane graphics to them, the monsters don't drop anything good, only at level 220s you can kill monsters that drop nice valueable things,hairstyles, facial styles, costumes, are all other aspects of PvM games and here the selection is poor and disatisfying. But let's not lose track of the porpuse of this thread, I'm trying to make it clear for gravity they need to be move versatile with their selections in game, war selections, PvP selections, character modification selections,and more.
I hope a GM will see this and take it in and make something out of it.
Thanks for the attention,
MiracleWorker.
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#11 Kitt

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:28 AM

We can continue to debate this until we are blue in the face, but that won't mean a thing in the end. Perhaps Calanor, Leonis, Genesis or a GM will take a moment and post to let all of us know once and for all what the Development Team, the only ones who matter when all is said and done, consider Rose to be. What sort of game are they trying to make? Is it an adventure game with a PvP aspect, or a PvP game with an adventure framework and back story? A clear answer to this question will help some of us decide if Rose is a game that suits us and our expectations in the long run.
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#12 PoopsMcgee

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:40 AM

Rose is very much about PVP now. Remember when they tried only having two UW's a day? The game was almost as empty as it is after a server restart. Before the higher ups quickly realized their horrible mistake and put UW back to the way it was, people had already quit and/or lost respect for those involved in carrying out such a sloppy update in such a careless manner. I think with their multiple screwups and undoings from messing with UW which obviously hurt the population very fast, it could have given the impression to those devs/gms whatever they may be that most of the active players are in Rose mainly to be involved in PVP content at least in the long term.
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#13 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:06 AM

Firstly I had to comment on something in your very first post:

Aside from that, leveling is very very hard. Most players will quit the game early on because the leveling system takes too long, especially when botting is ilegal and you have to sit in front of the screen 8 hours per day for 2 weeks to max your char, hence I suggest making more activies that will allow you to level rapidly, earn zulie, earn costumes, and have a blast. You can turn the Union War into an exp farm, every kill you make you get about 20% of your level. Every win you participate in you get 1 level up. The process of leveling will be fast and furious. Union Wars will have diffirent levels in them 30-100, 100-150, 150-220, 220-280.(Like in any other game online).


You say that leveling is very hard, I can't take a comment like that seriously unless you are used to playing games that are super easy and soft and let you level up to max in a day or two. Even as it is, players with help and friends who can loan them gear, and with the use of the item mall boosters, etc. you can get to max level within a few days in this game. And to me, there in lies a HUGE problem with attitudes and also burnout within the game. With probably 95% of the games content devoted to level 1 - 220, if you bypass all of that in a few days, then no wonder you aren't going to be happy with the last 5% that is all about PVP. You've done yourself a huge dis-service by rushing past the bulk of the game. Perhaps I can chalk that up the new age generation of people who want everything fast and now, I call the instant gratification generation. But the sad thing is due to human nature people who spend very little time earning or working for things, don't appreciate those things - if you spent many weeks or months earning your awesome gear in the game and getting to 220, then that is going to mean a whole lot more. It's logical and it's TRUE.

The kinds of things you are suggesting above are purely unrealistic. As it is the leveling is WAY too fast already. The game does not "love you good long time" if you get to 220 in a few days or even a couple weeks, and then wonder why you have an empty feeling. Did you in know the MECA of Rose, Irose=the gold standard, it took me 3 months to get to level 90? And I had more fun than I've ever had in this game in Irose. It was hard, it was challenging and it was damn fun too. This game has had all of the guts and fun things surgically removed. If a person could get levels by simply camping in Union Wars, or doing simple things as you are suggesting, it would de-devalue the gaming experience even more. If you don't like Rose and only want to PVP, I suggest you want a completely different game that offers you a PVP experience from the start. The desires you have, sorry to burst your bubble, will never be fulfilled. I've been with this game since early 2005 and yes, I realize they are trying to push this game into more PVP, but it will never be that - it wasn't designed that way from the begining and folks like you will never get what you are looking for.

Respectfully, Coffee
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#14 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:14 AM

Rose is very much about PVP now. Remember when they tried only having two UW's a day? The game was almost as empty as it is after a server restart. Before the higher ups quickly realized their horrible mistake and put UW back to the way it was, people had already quit and/or lost respect for those involved in carrying out such a sloppy update in such a careless manner. I think with their multiple screwups and undoings from messing with UW which obviously hurt the population very fast, it could have given the impression to those devs/gms whatever they may be that most of the active players are in Rose mainly to be involved in PVP content at least in the long term.


Only in terms of the emphasis the developers are pushing. The "content" is still fundementally PVM. 38 PVM maps vs about 8 PVP maps, for starters. Yes, I know the even the developers are stating the majority of their time is going into PVP updates, which IMO is sad bacause they are trying to re-mold the game over and over. Did you notice things never really seem to get much better in terms of PVP? Even Phish, who everyone worships like a Rose god has gotten extremely caustic and pessimistic about the game, and PVP is his world. There seems to be a pattern here and folks who are PVP oriented seem to be getting it. That pattern is that all the kings horses and all the kings men, can't put humpty dumpty Rose back to gether again as a PVP game. I used to have hope, but year after year, the pattern is too clear.

I think they would better serve the game by going back to Gravities original large scale plan, and develop Rose by adding large new content updates that are primarily PVM/quest based and continue to support PVP on the side.
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#15 Winky

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:06 AM

They cant go back to PvM cos there are only like 24 diffirent faces and I only see 8 diffirent ones worn by people(cos the rest r fugly) and there are only like 7 hairstyles i see people wear out of like 14....awful designed, don't you understand if it wont be about the PvP anymore it will fail cos the graphics suck and the looks suck...(am i allowed to say suck) iunno...
Thanks for reading,
Miracleworker.
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#16 Kitt

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

Hmmm, Coffee, I am willing to give Genesis' Game Arena a try. From what I understand it is primarily to add some depth to the PvP aspect but does respect that some of us prefer quests and story/adventure content. If it serves as a more fluid and dynamic PvP interface (which has always been rather static before) enabling a way for the GMs to keep the PvP crowd happy without devoting nearly all developmental resources to PvP I'm all for it. That would free up some of the development and creativity for the content we've been waiting so many years for.

There is room in Rose for both PvM and PvP -- just don't FORCE me to play PvP. I truly hate that aspect of the game and how it brings out the absolute worst in some people!
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#17 PoopsMcgee

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

I'm not too fond of PVM these days to be honest. It's not fun to me anymore. After so many years I think it has become stale to me. I am not even sure what exactly PVM as a whole is, besides players... vs monsters. I do enjoy the crafting in the game, only some of it though if that counts. The quests in Rose have never been their strong point from what I have seen. I only know a couple people who know about the storyline. Most people use PVM as a rush to the level cap... then what is there to do... Farming, vending, the occasional event quest (most of which are fetch this or kill that quests or even worse money sinks), crafting, and PVP right? There is so much more they could do. Public event quests... where anyone in the zone can participate and work together to do a large variety of things as a community, interesting quests about the main storyline, add more mobs to places like Orlo, and lots more. I'm pretty tired now, so I'll just leave this.


About the PVP... I do not think it will get much better even after the release of the Game Arena, or it will take a painfully long time for things to improve because the Game Arena is just new content. Sure, the Game Arena is new PVP content with what is supposed to come with cool new features, awesome right, but within that Game Arena it will still have imbalanced classes, skills, bugs, your typical player with 15 everything, and don't forget... Boosters! All of which we still encounter in UW every day. So I have little faith in this Game Arena and that is why. These new updates or tweaks seem to take a long time to come to play as well, too long. I think PVP has a long way to go and a game arena is not going to help a whole lot to be honest. I noticed Phish's posts too. Some of his recent posts do not give me hope for the game mechanics which need some heavy duty changes. Oh well I guess.

Edited by PoopsMcgee, 03 March 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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#18 Winky

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

The Arena, I heard its Leonis VS Draconis, is that right?
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#19 Zurn

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 07:20 PM

The Arena, I heard its Leonis VS Draconis, is that right?

game arena is union war, there is no crossing over servers.
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#20 Genesis

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:14 AM

Let's start by stamping out one misconception about the Game Arena. The Game Arena is not designed specifically for PvP content - it is designed for both PvM and PvP content.

I would like to bring your attention to a post I made in the developer's notes thread back in October 2011, which explains the progression of the Game Arena and the content which follows. From what I can see looking at where we are now, this progression of content development has not changed since the post was made.

ROSE is neither a PvP or PvM heavy game, it has appealing factors on both ends of the spectrum, and our current development schedule reflects this by attempting to cater to both. With that said, being a small development team we can only concentrate on a few aspects of the game at any one time, and with the Union War being the hot topic of debate at the time, it was the first of the content to be addressed, and the result of the updates which followed is what is now known as Crystal Defenders.
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#21 jerremy

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:50 AM

^ now THAT's something we like to hear.
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#22 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:32 AM

I would like to bring your attention to a post I made in the developer's notes thread back in October 2011, which explains the progression of the Game Arena and the content which follows. From what I can see looking at where we are now, this progression of content development has not changed since the post was made.


To be fair, if a forum reader has a bit of a hard time taking the developer notes as "gospel" there is a precident for that. How many developer notes or plans by Gravity has changed on us? Didn't Gravity tell us they planned on bringing out Orlo Chapter 1, 2 and 3, and all of that long before any Game Arena was discussed or announced? Orlo Chapter 1 came out over 2 years ago!! and Orlo Chapter 2 came out over a year ago. I haven't seen a peep about Orlo Chapter 3? Since Orlo Chapter 3 was announced before the Arena, by rights, that should come out first chronologically - but we don't even know when or if it will come out.

Here are some other examples of items announced in the developer notes or made by Rose Staff that have been renigged on or fallen off the radar: Return of Clan Wars, major update to the Goblin Caves (not much details given) and Orlo was to be re-vamped to address many of the problems that occurred since it was released. All of those items seem to have fallen silent, so to be fair, again, people read developer notes and take them with a grain of salt since history has taught us that things can indeed change or go away as if they never were. Things we were told could happen were taken away and our hopes were dashed. Since all of those developer notes have come out or comments made, a new chief seems to have taken charge and behind the curtain said no no no to all of that rot and switched over to the new freight train, PVP heavy updates.

ROSE is neither a PvP or PvM heavy game, it has appealing factors on both ends of the spectrum, and our current development schedule reflects this by attempting to cater to both. With that said, being a small development team we can only concentrate on a few aspects of the game at any one time, and with the Union War being the hot topic of debate at the time, it was the first of the content to be addressed, and the result of the updates which followed is what is now known as Crystal Defenders.


The game "had" appealing factors at both ends of the spectrum, but the direction the game has taken in the past 2 years is changing that. For a new player the game still does have appealing factors since most of the old PVP/Monster oriented content still exists - although some has been take away or turned to the dark side, like the Sikuku Ruins.

To start with, the math does tell much of the story: at some 38 PVM maps vs about 8 PVP maps, doesn't that kind of speak for itself, that the game is more PVM heavy than PVP? And that is after the dev's took the Sikuku Ruins and made it a PVP map, which it didn't used to be.

I realize whoever is in charge of ROse in Marina Del Rey is gung ho about PVP and pushing the game heavily in that direction - that has been plainly stated here in the forums by staff of Gravity during the past year. Since Orlo Chapter 1 came out, the development of the game has decidedly turned away from any sizable new PVM map/monster oriented content updates. Orlo Chapter 2 saw really only 1 monster oriented map (Gates of Orlo) and a major revision/nerf of the Orlo monsters on all the other maps, not to mention a major nerf to the drops. This all has been a PVM and farmers bad turn of events.

After Orlo Chapter 2 limped into Rose most of the announcement and discussion about further updates have emphasized PVP stuff, and IMO, only paying lip service to PVM content updates. Personally I have seen very little of what I would call new "appealing factors" in the future for a farmer and PVM adventure player. This is what I came to Rose for back in 2005/6/7/8 amd since latter 2009 new content for folks like me has very much trailed off.

I would like to hear about what there is specifically planned for us, the adventure, quest and PVM oriented player. Obviously the priorities and the progress of the game have shifted away from the things we like amd that is disappointing. We don't care about PVP, and my eye's glaze over when things like that are talked about etc. Please tell me what there is in store for over half of the Rose players in the game (historically). In the olden days, except for 2007, Rose PVM adventure players could expect at minimum one or two good content updates per year, but the bean counters at Gravity for some reason can't see fit to put this in the budget. Yes, I am aware the development staff is small and projects they can work on are limited, but as long as those projects are going to stay away from good PVM adventure updates, thats going to be many folks like me left with very little of interest, people like Kitt, Trupain, and many others who loved the leveling, adventuring, questing and farming aspects of the game. As it is, with no new content/map/monster updates really for TWO years now, this aspect of the game has stagnated badly. IMO, it has had a detrimental effect on the patronage of the game, both in terms of player numbers and income.

Edited by CoffeeMuse, 04 March 2012 - 09:52 AM.

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#23 Phish

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Hello Kitt, Let's be real please. thanks. Rose online is all about PvP exploring and leveling is just a tool to get to the experience of Union Wars, PvPing and other types of wars, leveling and farming is a pain in the ass that everyone is aware of, those who just level characters play with their costumes and farm are understandable for me, and it is being done in other games, except that in rose it is not the case.



Union wars are the only official pvp with a purpose in this game. Any other pvp/war is for the sake of sport or the players doing their own events. It's as much of a focus to this game as a player creating a 'hide and seek event' is pvm content.

If leveling and farming are a hassle for you and you wish to fly through it to play in the 1 pvp mode in the game then that is your personal choice.There might be a good amount of people that do take part in the self made wars but that is due to the players themselves and not Rose. And I think the main reason why people take part in this is because everything else has become so easy, been there done that, and there is not really any worthwhile end game content.

When leveling was slower people put more importance on it. Gearing your character for the journey down the road, not just the very end of it. I am not preaching about the some kind of utopia that once was but what the reality is now.



2) The second reason you my think of this game as PVP, is that most of the development effort into this game in the past two years has been centered on PVP concerns. It's been over two years since the last major content update was added regarding PVM play, and that would be Orlo Chapter 1: The Golden Ring. After I had exhausted that new content, I have played this game less and less and am pretty bummed that the development of Rose PVM content has essentially become arrested, stopped and I don't think it is any co-incidence that the game has seemed very dead and lifeless now. The developers need to learn that this is not a PVP game at heart, and they can't make it so without a full re-design, which they will never do. People come here thinking this is a PVP game, race to the top, discover the PVP play is very lacking, complain a lot and wander off to find some real meat that they will find satisfying and have some longevity.


In 2011 we got 1 pvp update:
The revamp of the Union War Map.
Maybe 1.5 if you are feeling optimistic with the disabling of jellybeans/stew in Union War.

For pvm we got:
Revamping Adventure Plains and the valley of Luxem Tower.
Epic Weapons
King Quest I guess
Drop tables screwed around with if you want to even count that

Jewelery change applies to both pvp and pvm.

In 2011 we also got some user interface and client synchronizing changes/bug fixes but that doesn't really apply to either category.


In 2010 for Pvp we got:
Some class balancing changes scattered around (abandoned before it was finished unfortunately).
And I guess the food/pot changes.

For Pvm we got Orlo Ch 2
Cave of Ulverick
Crafting system change
level 200 armor + new crafted backshields crossbows etc.

May have missed some things.



You say this game game is ALLLLLL about PVP and then complain the classes being unbalance. Get used to it. They've been trying to balance the classes in PVP play since at least 2009, and here it is 3 years later - I don't think you should have much hope. After years, ad years and years of watching this game go through it's paces, you start to see a pattern. One is a true lack of commitment to vigerous development, it is all half hearted, another is the inability to get the balancing "right". I believe much of this is because they are taking a game that is primarily PVM at it's core and trying to force it into a PVP game - ain't going to happen. People need to get this through their heads.


They may have been trying since 2009 but they took 2011 and what we've experienced in 2012 off. You know why they can't get it right? Because they don't listen to the people that play the game. Or atleast, don't interpret it right always.



Is Rose actually focused on PvP? I don't think Rose itself is but maybe the people playing tend to be more so because most of the PVM content started to suck. Not because there are significant updates on pvp.

Edited by Phish, 04 March 2012 - 06:49 PM.

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#24 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:00 PM

Alright, too long to read here, but I feel like the ROSE development staff backfire themselves now. They see good easy quick profit from the PvP freaks in ROSE, cuz they are desperate to become the best and will pay anything they could to make their characters good. But now what? You can't even entertain the PvP freaks anymore, they get bored of the game due to many important aspect of the game is broken. The year of 2011 was pretty bad, last update that change the game kind of significantly is the jewelery update, but until now there still isn't any update.

The new content rate coming out is going down exponentially, if your staff is only sufficient to develop item mall update but not actual in-game content, you will eventually kill your own game.

Making new refine cap to 20 or overpowering already existed weapon/armor to force ppl to renew equipment through refining, make a new and better reroll stat tier are just a cheap way to expand the game.
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#25 Naughty

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:26 AM

Let's start by stamping out one misconception about the Game Arena. The Game Arena is not designed specifically for PvP content - it is designed for both PvM and PvP content.

I would like to bring your attention to a post I made in the developer's notes thread back in October 2011, which explains the progression of the Game Arena and the content which follows. From what I can see looking at where we are now, this progression of content development has not changed since the post was made.

ROSE is neither a PvP or PvM heavy game, it has appealing factors on both ends of the spectrum, and our current development schedule reflects this by attempting to cater to both. With that said, being a small development team we can only concentrate on a few aspects of the game at any one time, and with the Union War being the hot topic of debate at the time, it was the first of the content to be addressed, and the result of the updates which followed is what is now known as Crystal Defenders.


Genesis, can i ask if the Game Arena PvM side is going to be Party based, or will it cater to the solo players as well?
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