214 replies to this topic

[Viri]

If they genuinely think it'll help the game, let them just do it and if it doesn't work out they can ALWAYS CHANGE IT BACK. I wish I could change my vote to a yes now lol

[Susan]

i don't know about you, but i'm older than 6 years and i pay for this game myself.

but whatever, keep ignoring the poll and the last 7 pages full of suggestions (like the gms do currently); and stick to your "gms know it all" - attitude.
I'm not going to revoke your right of making that decision, no matter how old you are

[Ashli]

but whatever, keep ignoring the poll and the last 7 pages full of suggestions (like the gms do currently); and stick to your "gms know it all" - attitude.

Because clearly, they do. ;'D

[Kadelia]

Gravity is a business.

If a game company follows every single suggestion and responds to every complaint from players you end up with a premium server that has 300 players and 400 god items, all players at 99 trans with nothing to do but acid bomb each other with their botted or spoonfed supplies, etc. Oh, wait-- that already happened and Gravity lost a ton of players (money).

I don't see anything wrong with a fresh start and a carefully controlled influx of items that should have been rate-limited to begin with.

Also I can see the commercial value in 100% drop items like poison spores being 50% to a 90 sinx and them being made to use HE Gum from the Kafra $hop to make it near 100% again. Haha.

Edited by Jaye, 11 October 2010 - 08:36 AM.

[Ashli]

Gravity is a business.

If a game company follows every single suggestion and responds to every complaint from players you end up with a premium server that has 300 players and 400 god items, all players at 99 trans with nothing to do but acid bomb each other with their botted or spoonfed supplies, etc. Oh, wait-- that already happened and Gravity lost a ton of players (money).

So it's best for them to just continue losing more players?

[Neutral12]

So it's best for them to just continue losing more players?

Borrowing this. One thing I hate more then a "business" that only cares about their money; is a business that does not care about how its audience feels.

[Kadelia]

Borrowing this. One thing I hate more then a "business" that only cares about their money; is a business that does not care about how its audience feels.

I think that's what got them into this boat to begin with.

I know it sounds mean but the majority of people have no idea what is best for them. It was listening to self-entitled/lazy players that got RO in the dying shape it is in now. Listening to that same demographic of people who want shortcuts now isn't going to help anything. The servers that are thriving more than iRO have lower rates and have this drop penalty. Just.. give it a chance. Damn.

Edited by Jaye, 11 October 2010 - 08:52 AM.

[Viri]

Its not like they can't change it in 3 months if its deemed too hard for iRO players. Which it probably will be because we're a spoonfed babied server to begin with that is easier than most private servers.

[LethalJokeChar]

I have been playing Renewal so far on Ygg (1x rates legit mode) and I have had hundreds and hundreds of poison spores, etc., half a dozen Karvos, and I wasn't even hunting for them.

Hmm, so you weren't even hunting for them? That means... you were training, right? And that means... you were around their level, right? And that means... you were getting at or near 100% drop rates! I really do wonder how long you've been there, but anyway, it doesn't matter unless it was something like less than an hour. "hundreds and hundreds" of poison spores will not support a guild. It takes thousands upon thousands.

One of the first things I noticed is that some ingredients that dropped 45-55% pre-renewal now drop 90-100%. This means even with the 50% drop penalty, its the same as pre-renewal. Also, some of you seem to forget things like poison spores were 50% only 2-3 or so years ago, and were buffed to 90%. We did fine for many years with them at 45-50% drop and you can now. In fact-- its better that way, seeing as how in the past few years WoE has degenerated into nothing but Acid Bomb and EDP.

What ingredients are you talking about, by the way? Stems? Poison spores? Immortal Hearts? Heart of Mermaid? They already were at 90% before renewal. And around the time when the drop rates increased for certain items, that would have been due to the greatly increased demand created by EDP and acid bomb. We did fine with those lower drop rates because demand was lower for them before trans skills.

Drop rate should be more like 5%, not 50%-100%. Cry all you want about wanting things, but it's more like a child in a grocery store throwing a fit because he wants Cocoa Puffs instead of Cherios. While it may be a valid concern to the child, the parent knows better, and "ignores" the child's opinion.

And I suppose you think you know better, right? LMAO this is SO goddamn rich. Listen to this troll. Here you are, preaching at the rest of us... preaching at 95% of the entire playerbase for not wanting this ridiculous drop rate. You say that the GMs know what is better for us and we are just whiny kids. Sooooo... I suppose that means you can stop your whining about how badly nerfed arrow vulcan got. Or how badly nerfed mechanics became. Or about how severely OP some other 3rd class skills are -- because the GMs know better than all of us, including YOU. Right?

And now you will want to point to some difference, how the arrow vulcan nerf is more extreme and less justified, amirite? Well, having to hunt twice as long to get some crumby items for trans skills is probably just as bad.

155/157 people would vote to give themselves a pay raise, even if it would eventually cause the business to fail, since they don't have the foresight or knowledge to see such things. This is why employees don't vote on their own restrictions, as they do not know what is best for them or the company, only know what they WANT.

And do you think employers would ACTUALLY poll their employees to see if they wanted a pay raise, since this is the case? No, they wouldn't. So, why in the hell do you think we are being polled about this drop rate now? If everyone votes yes and drop rates are normal, is the whole game going to fall apart? Is Gravity going to go out of business solely because it's easier to farm some items, or wouldn't you think it would have to do with the other ways they have chosen to run their business? And lol @ your "they know what's best for us" argument again.

Basically, you are arrogant enough to think that none of your fellow players' opinions matter one bit, if they disagree with you, and you somehow expect respect back and to be taken seriously. That will not happen, dear, sorry. And I hope you enjoy all the nerfs to your gypsy class because obviously Gravity knows what's best for you.

[Trixdee]

I'm sorry I agreed with Jaye on the AV issue but not on this. Drop nerf is a horrible idea.

[Axel]

I have to say, as a primarily non-fighting RO player (my main being a priest in his 70s) that this could completely crush many players. Most newer players that we may see won't think twice about passing up loot for lvls--as someone who was a first class char, like many of us, I never once thought that the herbs lying on the ground could be worth more than the pocket zeny that keep my acolyte blue gemstone-stocked. Even now, as I look forward as a priest I can't make sure that I won't sell any loot that happens to drop onscreen, being that the priest job has never seen much profit in terms of gaining any zeny. Even as another class, say the gunslingers, this is a major drawback in terms of both leveling and keeping bullets. If a 'slinger is lucky, they can make it all the way to lvl 40 simply from geographers and other stationary monsters, seeing as this is one of the classes often ignored when parties recruit.

Edited by Axel, 11 October 2010 - 02:55 PM.

[Axel]

I think that's what got them into this boat to begin with.

I know it sounds mean but the majority of people have no idea what is best for them. It was listening to self-entitled/lazy players that got RO in the dying shape it is in now. Listening to that same demographic of people who want shortcuts now isn't going to help anything. The servers that are thriving more than iRO have lower rates and have this drop penalty. Just.. give it a chance. Damn.

Sorry to bother, but giving the fact that whoever has the SENSE OF SELF-AWARENESS to even be playing this game has to know for themselves to continue playing, I would think as a fellow person (if you remember the definition of that word) that people can judge for themselves right and wrong. The reason the world is as it is today is because people, like the GMs and developers of RO, decided what they knew best and acted upon their own judgement. Rather than act as if it's a cause that you need to prove to some idiot masses, if your point is that the GMs should not ask our opinion on a majorly important matter then you should likely boycott the premise of customer satisfaction.

Edited by Axel, 11 October 2010 - 03:03 PM.

[Axel]

Like the bubble gum idea

Other ideas I had recently include:

1: Having a 'token' drop off all common mobs at all levels that can be traded in for said crafting items at an NPC. Maybe make tokens tradable for non crafters to profit.

2: Creating accessories, like for instance 'Herbalists Ring' or something which adds random herb/spore etc drops from kills that usually give drops at your level. Can make it so there's a quest to get to the accessory or something so it requires a little work to obtain first?

I admit my previous idea was rubbish when looking at logistics of implementing it, but hopefully us all banging our heads together like this results in a better system then what is currently on renewal

Best I've read so far.

[poisin]

So i tried to become a wizard at job 40 mage, thinking I would just have to talk to the npc to switch classes like novice to mage. Then it hits me with the item quest 5 of each elemental stones (sage endow ones). So i hunt black mushrooms and kill a bunch of water monsters in byalan. In one hour i got 1 crystal blue... So i figured getting job 50 would be easier than this. I grinded until job 50, but the wiz test is still asking me to collect the stones... please do not nerf the drop rate

[Kadelia]

So i tried to become a wizard at job 40 mage, thinking I would just have to talk to the npc to switch classes like novice to mage. Then it hits me with the item quest 5 of each elemental stones (sage endow ones). So i hunt black mushrooms and kill a bunch of water monsters in byalan. In one hour i got 1 crystal blue... So i figured getting job 50 would be easier than this. I grinded until job 50, but the wiz test is still asking me to collect the stones... please do not nerf the drop rate

You're actually not meant to grind for crystal blues and such. Even pre-RE, you'd have crap rate (maybe one in 30-60 mins) finding a crystal blue off a mushroom. You're supposed to either A) buy the stones off other players (I've sold several of each to an NPC!) or use the umbala shaman that trades easy to get loots at your level for elemental stones (things like drops from Horn monster etc). Either way, you have a high chance to get all of those loots up until like... base 80. You should be a wizard long before then, and by the time you're 80+ you can get elemental stones right from monsters at a much higher rate (esp. green live, crystal blue). I don't see anywhere in this equation do you have anything to worry about a drop penalty... nowhere at all.

The reason the world is as it is today is because people, like the GMs and developers of RO, decided what they knew best and acted upon their own judgement.

Um... so. The GMs allowed all god items to merge from Sakray to Iris because nobody on Sakray whined that their hard work would be lost? Then they merged Iris/Chaos/Loki because nobody whined that the servers were too small, creating a server with 3 servers' worth of simultaneously created god items and mvp cards, ultimately destabling WoE exactly like it did on Iris, combined with GM-run events to give players EXACTLY what they wanted such as bombs and edp from WPS and MORE seal rolling and God item creation? Because this is what players cried out against, right? Oh, they spammed the server with Ice Titans and AL3 events because players asked for balanced and pride-worthy leveling right? They keep cranking out lucky boxes because not a single player buys them, right? Nobody spends $500+ on them and sells them for zeny right? Yeah, our players are such selfless angels and our GMs are such demons. You're so right.

"hundreds and hundreds" of poison spores will not support a guild. It takes thousands upon thousands.

Ohsnap they changed it so guilds auto-break and become completely unsupported if you don't fuel overpowered optional skills that should be rate-limited and rare? Fccck when did they implement this? Crap. Can you link me to the announcement please?

greatly increased demand created by EDP and acid bomb. We did fine with those lower drop rates because demand was lower for them before trans skills.

This is the part where you slap yourself on the forehead and go "Ohhhhhh!" as you realize players are stupid and look for the shortcut to greatness at the cost of fair play (botting, bug abuse, min-maxing, etc) and realize its the game developer's job to... rate limit... these powerful skills by their item requirements, thus reducing the availability of these items instead of listening to idiotic players who only think of themselves.

95% of the entire playerbase for not wanting this ridiculous drop rate.

You should probably chill with the made up statistics, especially when they are both irrelevant and far from accurate.

You say that the GMs know what is better for us and we are just whiny kids. Sooooo... I suppose that means you can stop your whining about how badly nerfed arrow vulcan got. Or how badly nerfed mechanics became. Or about how severely OP some other 3rd class skills are -- because the GMs know better than all of us, including YOU. Right?

You're confusing the game developers in Gravity/Korea with the GMs here and vice versa. Our GMs here make a lot of bad decisions by listening to the playerbase. kRO devs make a lot of bad decisions when they don't listen to playerbases and they neglect a lot of things that seem to fall off their grocery list (example: piece skill not working for about 8 years). kRO's intentional changes are generally good, you should give them a chance before you complain. The things people were bringing to our GMs' attention were mostly bugs and oversights (kRO has made many). You however, complain about intentional changes. You probably should sort out what is going on better before arguing.

And do you think employers would ACTUALLY poll their employees to see if they wanted a pay raise, since this is the case?

Nope, for the same reason Gravity shouldn't poll its playerbase on what it wants. Because colectively, we're incompetent. Mobs generally are.

Basically, I am arrogant enough to think that none of your opinions matter one bit, if they disagree with mine, and I somehow expect respect back and to be taken seriously. That will not happen, dear, sorry. And I hope you enjoy all the nerfs to your gypsy class because obviously Gravity knows what's best for you and denerfed the skill slightly after hearing your valid concerns over the developer's oversights.

^ iawtc. First true/intelligent thing I've quoted so far with your name on it. Now if only you could write intelligently on your own.

In closing;
People are shortsighted. Air this poll in 1 year and the results will be completely different and most of you will say to yourself "I don't even know why I was so against this, lol."

Edited by Jaye, 12 October 2010 - 03:25 AM.

[LethalJokeChar]

Fail edit again. For the record, I said Jaye is the one who is arrogant. Stop making edits like that you worthless troll. You must think you are all coy and that people will fall for it.

Guilds do not auto-break if they lose their ability to EDP and acid bomb without reservations. Rather, they just end up doing worse and worse. Oh, the richest and most powerful guilds that already have their foothold in the god item factory will still have access to everything they want. But the rest of the poorer guilds will have to end up either drastically conserving their resources or be forced to grind 2x.

And my statistics are NOT made up. LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. Oops I meant 93% of the players are against this drop rate nerf. How could you NOT interpret it that way? Stupid troll...

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 12 October 2010 - 09:31 AM.

[Viri]

LOL woman, stop making this poor retard rage.

[Kadelia]

But it's fun

[Puppet]

well either way i doubt they gona take it out, so either way be ready to be crushed by the market again and have common stuff or needed stuff more expensive then it already is

Edited by Puppet, 12 October 2010 - 12:12 PM.

[Ashli]

Are you seriously still going on about this?

It's pretty clear that Jaye has absolutely nothing worthwhile to add to this thread. And by worthwhile I mean something that doesn't involve trying to act cool by calling off anything someone says against your opinion as total bulls-_-.

And for goodness sake, stop -_-ing tl;dr-ing and then making bogus claims about what they said. It does nothing to help with how ridiculous you look.

I'm out. Hopefully Gravity will take my earlier suggestion and nix this entire stupid idea.

EDIT: And just throwing it out there, but if a discrepancy of 4% is inaccurate enough to blow a fuse over then you need some serious help.

And also, just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it irrelevant. In fact, considering it's you that's opposing it, I would consider the aforementioned statements as truth. <3

Edited by Ashli, 13 October 2010 - 02:39 PM.

[Pine]

Hmm.... I agree with Jaye for the most part. I mean, why do you think they've been making all of these changes in the first place? I was hoping that Azzy or Doddler would make this point so please excuses thes way I type because I'm horrible at explaining myself. Gravity doesn't want these items to be so readily available. In the end, we're all just getting spoiled. I think that it might be way too late, but RO is trying to balance itself out again. We have to remember that our most powerful skills have limits and are not meant to be spammed and that rare items are supposed to be rare and bosses are supposed to be hard. It just seems like things have gotten out of hand lately. Guilds now have the ability to outfit their entire roster with the rarest items in the game, and if that's not enough they abuse glitches so they don't even have to deal with anyone. Everyone's overdosing on yggberries, acid bombs, edps. People just just find every possible shortcut to abuse the system and I don't see what they get out of it. I've tried it and I just feel empty. I don't think that's what they really want because you make friends and and they give you things and show you all of these neat tips and tricks and then all of sudden you're on top. Hey look at those idiots, they don't have all of the rare items in the game so let's rape them up the ass and make the quit the game for even thinking that can step foot on our turf. I've got more to say, but it looks like I'm just complaining so feel free to make fun of my rant. I rand out of liquor!

[Kadelia]

Are you seriously still going on about this?

It's pretty clear that Jaye has absolutely nothing worthwhile to add to this thread. And by worthwhile I mean something that doesn't involve trying to act cool by calling off anything someone says against your opinion as total bulls-_-.

And for goodness sake, stop -_-ing tl;dr-ing and then making bogus claims about what they said. It does nothing to help with how ridiculous you look.

I'm out. Hopefully Gravity will take my earlier suggestion and nix this entire stupid idea.

EDIT: And just throwing it out there, but if a discrepancy of 4% is inaccurate enough to blow a fuse over then you need some serious help.

And also, just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it irrelevant. In fact, considering it's you that's opposing it, I would consider the aforementioned statements as truth. <3

Normally, I would disregard a post as silly as this one. However, you're extremely angry, and I'd rather give you the benefit of doubt and assume you were just too angry (albeit irrationally) at this change to the game you knew and love to read any of my valid points about this system. So I will attempt to reason with you one last time.

- You yourself have nothing worthwhile to add. You're bellyaching and essentially throwing a tantrum. This is not "worthwhile" by any definition. You should take your own advice about 'staying out of discussions without anything "worthwhile" to add'. Thankfully, you've already stated your intent to bow out (which I doubt you'll adhere to).

- Someone stating facts and adding logic and relevance to the mix to try and settle your tantrum-throwing butt down is not "making bogus claims" or "total bull(insertsadfaceemotehere)". I'd like to point out you just dismissed all my valid statements and called them 'bull' and told me I have nothing to contribute. This is not only hypocritical within your previous claim I was doing that, but also absurd, since you are the only one actually doing it.

- Gravity is not going to 'nix' this feature. They already said as much. You're grasping at delusional dreams and holding your hands over your ears as anyone tries to reason with you.

Let's talk about "discrepancies" and "irrelevance" in this poll. Just because you are not able to understand someone else's statement does not give you license to use it as a platform for attack. It really only just makes you disarmed in a war of words.

"95% of people don't want this feature". Firstly, this is a made up statistic. 95% of the people who voted may have chosen that option, but peoples' opinions are not this black and white, nor is the small number of people who have touched this thread the entire population of the game (by far). Using this as the stage for your entire argument is frankly irresponsible. You literally have no idea just how many people in this game understand and yet do not support this feature.

Why is it irrelevant? I'll tell you why. Because the gut/initial reaction of completely inexperienced players who haven't even used the system does not matter in any way whatsoever. A good portion of the people who voted that they hate this system will probably lose this initial reaction after a few weeks of using it. This poll is essentially worthless. It is fear-mongering and nothing more.

Beyond your post I want to add that I experienced my first taste of the drop penalty today, as my 9x Dancer was hunting pieces needed for the arrow crafting quest. Most of the loot is dropped by 3x-6x monsters, so I suffered the full -50% drop penalty. It took me about 30 minutes to get all the loot I needed. Although the drop rate was significantly reduced, so was the difficulty of the monsters. I was able to 1 shot entire mobs of elder willow with 1 arrow shower, which was ridiculously easy. It did not take me long to get 20 resin. The thing that took me longest was the trunks from greatest general, which fell around 10% with the drop penalty. While this was annoying, it would have been just as annoying pre-RE as well, since I am able to 1 shot generals easily and there are no ninetails, etc. It all really kind of evened out.

One of the biggest hits I've noticed is actually the UPSWINGING penalty. Where you're penalized 50% drops for monsters too high for your level. Normally I'd make fantastic loot on an archer or mage due to killing harder monsters sooner, but now their loot is gimped so bad it's not worth doing. This really makes things a lot more fair.

[Kadelia]

needed stuff

If you would like, you can start listing "Needed stuff" and I will explain why every single one of them (except maybe Thara Frog card) isn't actually needed.

[Clogon]

I wish some of the more broken skills had as much rarity as EDP and AD. I am looking at you, Howling. <.<

[Viri]

I wish some of the more broken skills had as much rarity as EDP and AD. I am looking at you, Howling. <.<

ASDKLFJSDKLFJSKDLFSJDFLDSF.That is me yelling every time this hits me I swear im gonna have to buy a new keyboard after 2 weeks of WoEing if this crops up a lot loll