67 replies to this topic

[Calanor]

Client Update

• The Character window was showing the wrong values for the following stats, this is now showing correctly;
  
• Defense
• Attack
• Critical

Passive Percentage Bonuses (Calculation Change)
This change went in on Wednesday, though it was not intended to be updated with the skill changes.
We are not going to revert this change, and wait to update it later.

In an effort to curb some of the extremes that would occur when players stacked large amounts of stat increasing gear, the basic stat calculations for several stats were changed. Now fixed bonus amounts from blue stats, light blue stats, and gem bonuses will no longer be multiplied by passive percentage bonuses.
The calculation of passive bonuses is reflected in the following stats: defense, magic defense, attack, move speed, accuracy, dodge, crit rate, and weight capacity.

Previously Calculation
(Equipment Base Value (Atk/Dodge/Def/Etc) + Bonus Values (Blue/Light Blue/Gem Values)) * Passive Skill

[Example] (Weapon Atk (100) + Bonus Values (25)) * 10% Passive % Bonus = 137.5

New Calculation (Patch v.400)
(Equipment Base Value (Atk/Dodge/Def/Etc) * Passive Skill) + Bonus Values (Blue/Light Blue/Gem Values)

[Example] (Weapon Atk (100) * 10% Passive % Bonus) + Bonus Values (25) = 135


*Note
Values gained from Active skills are always added after the above values are calculated.

[Svenatenine]

You're late on the post.
CHAMPS UP, NEED FIX

[Phish]

Don't forget to mention base stats (Str, Dex, Int, Con, Sen) are effected by passives as well.

Edited by Phish, 20 April 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[kwayan19]

so lower stats now

[Sandrock]

so what if it's lower. every player will experience it anyway, so it's fine :3

[pdfisher]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[Sandrock]

Client Update

• The Character window was showing the wrong values for the following stats, this is now showing correctly;
  
• Defense
• Attack
• Critical

Passive Percentage Bonuses (Calculation Change)
This change went in on Wednesday, though it was not intended to be updated with the skill changes.
We are not going to revert this change, and wait to update it later.

In an effort to curb some of the extremes that would occur when players stacked large amounts of stat increasing gear, the basic stat calculations for several stats were changed. Now fixed bonus amounts from blue stats, light blue stats, and gem bonuses will no longer be multiplied by passive percentage bonuses.
The calculation of passive bonuses is reflected in the following stats: defense, magic defense, attack, move speed, accuracy, dodge, crit rate, and weight capacity.

Previously Calculation
(Equipment Base Value (Atk/Dodge/Def/Etc) + Bonus Values (Blue/Light Blue/Gem Values)) * Passive Skill

[Example] (Weapon Atk (100) + Bonus Values (25)) * 10% Passive % Bonus = 137.5

New Calculation (Patch v.400)
(Equipment Base Value (Atk/Dodge/Def/Etc) * Passive Skill) + Bonus Values (Blue/Light Blue/Gem Values)

[Example] (Weapon Atk (100) * 10% Passive % Bonus) + Bonus Values (25) = 135


*Note
Values gained from Active skills are always added after the above values are calculated.

@calanor
can you explain how gems work / gem values?
i mean for example:

(Weapon Atk (100) * 10% Passive % Bonus) + Bonus Values (Diamond[7])
Diamond[7] gives 20 attack + 5%

Which value will be multiplied by 5%?
Which one of the options below is the right calculation?:

A.
(Weapon Atk (100) * 10% Passive % Bonus) + Bonus Values (Diamond[7])
= (110 + Diamond [7]) * 5%
= (110 + 20 )* 5%
= 130 * 5%
= 136.5
B.
(Weapon Atk (100) * 10% Passive % Bonus) + Bonus Values (Diamond[7])
= (110 + Diamond [7])
= 110 + (20 * 5%)
= 110 + 21
= 131

A or B? or none of the above?

before the patch btw, Im fun of calculating stats and I've noticed that gems work this way:
(TOTAL Atk + Diamond[7]) * Passives
= [(TOTAL Atk + 20) * 5%] * Passives

if there are 5 Diamond [7] then:
(TOTAL Atk + 5 x Diamond[7]) * Passives
= [(TOTAL Atk + 100) * 25%] * Passives

Therefore, according to your new calculation, I conclude that GEMS starting now will have fix values??
meaning Diamond[7] will always give 21 attack power only because 5% of 20 Atk is 1 Atk


Im confuse, teach us please :DD

Edited by Sandrock, 20 April 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Calanor]

For Gem's the % value is calculated with the rest of the % values, before the raw values is added.

[Sandrock]

For Gem's the % value is calculated with the rest of the % values, before the raw values is added.

so, the 5% of the Diamond[7] will be added to the attack passive % bonuses?
so the "2 handed mastery" passive skill for champ has 20% attack power, it will become 25% by adding 1 D[7], and 30% by adding 2 D[7], and so on. plus, it will be added by another 20% from the passive skill "advanced 2 handed mastery"
Is that what you mean?

[AzNx]

so youre telling me everything is lower than it should be? One thing i dont get is if everything is lower than it should be such as accuracy and dodge, shouldnt people still miss a little while hitting raider that used to have lets say 3.8k-4k dodge?

[AzNx]

btw whats the point of dodge if raiders are being hit regardless of how high their dodge is

[KingsBane]

Its a lot less on attackpower than that maybe 1000 or even 2000 another kick in the teeth to players. Are you against fun or something everything u do restricts us reduces fun reduces the entire point to improving your charactors. This new pvm equipments thats been metioned whats it for? are legend dark hardened just rubbish now are we to do mindless quests to buy more of same tiers of armour like a sort of keep them occupied till we think up another way to prolong the game without new levels and maps?

[Rooster]

so, the 5% of the Diamond[7] will be added to the attack passive % bonuses?
so the "2 handed mastery" passive skill for champ has 20% attack power, it will become 25% by adding 1 D[7], and 30% by adding 2 D[7], and so on. plus, it will be added by another 20% from the passive skill "advanced 2 handed mastery"
Is that what you mean?

That's how I read it.

Really makes the passive IM skills appealing.

Edited by Rooster, 21 April 2012 - 06:35 AM.

[Zurn]

i think its a good idea to fix the passive skill, but i think the channel of both server is experiencing massive Disconnection..pls pay attention on this problem guys

take a look at this post http://forums.warppo...ce/page__st__50

[Howie]

That's how I read it.

Really makes the passive IM skills appealing.

So an IM appealing change? Unsurprised.

[NamirBarades]

But whats the point for that appeal? People already buy the im passives anyways lol

[tENLAVUU]

I don't believe the numbers displayed reflect the actual stats of the character. Something is wrong when 1.2k acc is hitting almost every hit on 3.5k dr.

[AzNx]

I don't believe the numbers displayed reflect the actual stats of the character. Something is wrong when 1.2k acc is hitting almost every hit on 3.5k dr.

That's exactly what i was saying, ese's champ was unbuffed and was hitting me while i was in full dodge gear.

[Aviv4]

Training Grounds is closed again.

[Phish]

I don't believe the numbers displayed reflect the actual stats of the character. Something is wrong when 1.2k acc is hitting almost every hit on 3.5k dr.

It's not just you, the formula was changed. Thanks to my lovely assistant DestinyDeoxys we came across some interesting results:


5409 acc vs 4125 dodge
~131% acc to dodge ratio

19/20 hits connected: 95% hit rate


4127 acc vs 4125 dodge
~100% acc to dodge ratio

• 19/20 hits connected 95% hit rate

3097 acc vs 4125 dodge
~75% acc to dodge ratio

• 15/20 hits connected: 75% hit rate

2064 acc vs 4125 dodge
~50% acc to dodge ratio

• 11/20 hits connected: 55% hit ratio

1029 acc vs 4125 dodge
~25% acc to dodge ratio

• 4/20 hits connected: 20% hit ratio

Hit ratio was the same for melee as it was skills.




Prior to this patch, an equal dodge to accuracy ratio hit 50% of the time, (even stated in patch notes in the past). From my experience the ratio for hit rate was .5 accuracy/dodge (assuming both player and enemy are the same level). From this testing, it is obvious that the formula is changed and it is probably become: accuracy/dodge.

So basically, your dodge is half as effective as it was before. 4k dodge now is like 2k dodge last week, rejoice.

Edited by Phish, 22 April 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[soggycereal]

So basically, your dodge is half as effective as it was before. 4k dodge now is like 2k dodge last week, rejoice.

thanks a lot it all makes sense now

[DestinyDeoxys]

One thing simple is that Hawkers without dodge = piece of cake for enemy.

So the nerf is in terms of normal hits on dodge, skill on dodge kept the same, in other words champion/artisan/bourgeois would have an easier chance to kill raiders/scouts. But I don't think this change is good, because I can tell from PvM, I die from yellow mobs easily, dodge feels so weak in PvM now. I hope this change from [0.5 x acc/dodge = hit rate] to [1 x acc/dodge = hit rate] is actually a bug, I really can't handle PvM (hawker) anymore with this change, my hawker die from a yellow illusion ghost in few hits.

Edited by DestinyDeoxys, 22 April 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[fadesurf225]

Would like to reinforce the data that Phish has provided for us to see. Credit goes to Cutiepiee, Marl3, and RoastedPeanuts for the following data sets. Please observe:

• 1079 acc vs 4079 dodge
  78 hits / 300 shots = 26.00% hit rate
  .
  .
• 1074 acc vs 3017 dodge
  128 hits / 300 shots = 42.67% hit rate
  .
  .
• 1080 acc vs 2010 dodge
  250 hits / 300 shots = 83.33% hit rate
  .
  .
• 1544 acc vs 2010 dodge
  273 hits / 300 shots = 91.00% hit rate
  .
  .
• 4012 acc vs 4073 dodge
  378 hits / 400 shots = 93.75% hit rate
  *** Note - an extra 100 shots was used to verify the hit rate for this data set ***
  .
  .
• 4012 acc vs 2019 dodge
  281 hits / 300 shots = 93.67% hit rate
  .
  .
• 4012 acc vs 1058 dodge
  286 hits / 300 shots = 95.33% hit rate

Unfortunately, this data table is incomplete. What's missing on this table is the data set that shows a 50% hit rate. However, even with these data sets, it is easy to agree with Phish on the idea that dodge is at most half as effective as it was 1 week ago. I do have the idea that the effectiveness of dodge is even less than that. We will find that out once we find the data set that represents the 50% hit rate.

Please feel free to correct these observations, or even add your own data sets and commentary.


EDIT: added dots for spacing.

EDIT2: apparently the forums decided that the font colour for this post should be white. how in the world did that happen?

Edited by fadesurf225, 22 April 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[GlennFroggy]

can't see your post fade, the font blend in with background

[fadesurf225]

Not quite sure how that happened. Thanks for the heads-up.