29 replies to this topic

[Heimdallr]

Yggdrasil is set to 100% default Exp jExp and Drops.

Party system: Even share party of more than 2 characters = 10% bonus xp per character beyond 2. So 3 = 110 4 = 120% etc.

Exp rates based on level comparison.

Player level is 16+ levels LOWER = 40% (only feasible with tanking)
Player level is 15 levels LOWER = 115%
Player level is 14 levels LOWER = 120%
Player level is 13 levels LOWER = 125%
Player level is 12 levels LOWER = 130%
Player level is 11 levels LOWER = 135%
Player level is 10 levels LOWER = 140%
Player level is 9 levels LOWER = 135%
Player level is 8 levels LOWER = 130%
Player level is 7 levels LOWER = 125%
Player level is 6 levels LOWER = 120%
Player level is 5 levels LOWER = 115%
Player level is 4 levels LOWER = 110%
Player level is 1 - 3 levels LOWER = 105%

Player level is Equal or 1 - 5 levels Higher = 100%

Player level is 6 - 10 levels higher = 95%
Player level is 11 - 15 levels higher = 90%
Player level is 16 - 20 levels higher = 85% (easy mode is truly present here)
Player level is 21 - 25 levels higher = 60%
Player level is 26 - 30 levels higher = 35%
Player level is 31+ levels higher = 10%


MVPs always = 100% EXP
MVPs always = 100% Drops


Drop rate comparison for level.
Player level is 14+ levels LOWER = 50%
Player level is 13 - 11 levels LOWER = 60%
Player level is 10 - 8 levels LOWER = 70%
Player level is 7 - 5 levels LOWER = 80%
Player level is 4 - 1 levels LOWER = 90%
Player level is Equal to 3 levels Higher = 100%
Player level is 4 - 6 levels Higher = 90%
Player level is 7 - 9 levels Higher = 80%
Player level is 10 - 12 levels Higher = 70%
Player level is 13 - 15 levels Higher = 60%
Player level is 16 + levels Higher = 50%


Please bear in mind that there may be alternative means to getting cards/equipment from quests. Common stuff like Stems often have an over 100% drop rate in the current system on Ymir, especially with Bubble Gum, meaning even at 50% penalty the drop chances are still well above .5.

[Doddler]

See, my problem with the drop penalty is the disconnect between drops and exp. The best level for experience is 10 levels below the monster, but you're penalized for drops at this point. That strikes me as being a problem.

[Hrothmund]

drop penalty should be an extension of exp penalty (if anything) so drop penalties start to apply at 17 levels lower and 31 levels higher.

Also are there flee/def/damage bonus/penalties? I have a vague recollection of that near the start of renewal where people were tanking MVPs and taking 1's from everything, if the MVP even managed to hit them.

[Babbles]

Don't be silly. There should be no drop penalty if the monster is above your level, and there should be a drop bonus if the monster is below it. There needs to be some trade off for hunting weaker monsters, and some benefit for having high level characters.

There shouldn't be "penalties" anyway. That was just a kludge because the dev team couldn't figure out how to rebalance monsters and address grinding within the existing system. Or I might be more precise, and state that the dev team went about it in the laziest manner possible, because they couldn't figure out a formulaic system to fix the monsters.

[Seraphiel]

Drop penalty is just ridiculous. There could be a penalty if monster is above your level but not when it is greatly below. Even in modern mmorpgs there is no such thing as drop penalty when fighting weaker monsters; if there is drop penalty, it is when you get no items for fighting with monsters that are above your level.

Another thing is this marvellous party system...
Sure you get this 10% bonus! It sounds great! However, when, for example, you are in a party of 5 people, experience is split among those 5 people so each party-member gets 26% of total exp - 130%. When base experience of a monster is 1000, each member of a party like this will gain 260 base experience. This value is far too low, leveling alone is much more efficient, especially that in renewal it is much easier. RO will not become a party-oriented or even partying-worth mmorpg with system like this...
In my opinion, party-share bonus should be higher. iRO can increase the bonus, and players can test it on Ygg server. I think that bonus of 30~40% is well-balanced and partying-worth.

With bonus of 40% per party-member, and 1000 base experience, values would look like this:

3 party-members : 1400/3 = 466, 46% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
4 party-members : 1800/4 = 450, 45% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
5 party-members : 2200/5 = 440, 44% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
6 party-members : 2600/6 = 433, 43% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
7 party-members : 3000/7 = 428, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
8 party-members : 3400/8 = 425, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
9 party-members : 3800/9 = 422, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
10 party-members : 4200/10 = 420, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
11 party-members : 4600/11 = 418, 41% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
12 party-members : 5000/12 = 416, 41% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.

With setting like this almost everyone would play in parties. Bonus of 30~40% isn't too high, but it is attractive. It allows fast leveling early in the game, since party-members can kill more than 1 monster at once, and slightly faster leveling past 99 - comparing to solo-play.

All in all, drop penalty is a terrible idea, and Party-Share system needs tweaking.

Edited by Seraphiel, 15 September 2010 - 08:52 AM.

[Resplendent]

Don't be silly. There should be no drop penalty if the monster is above your level, and there should be a drop bonus if the monster is below it. There needs to be some trade off for hunting weaker monsters, and some benefit for having high level characters.

There shouldn't be "penalties" anyway. That was just a kludge because the dev team couldn't figure out how to rebalance monsters and address grinding within the existing system. Or I might be more precise, and state that the dev team went about it in the laziest manner possible, because they couldn't figure out a formulaic system to fix the monsters.

This. Absolutely. Penalties only make the game unnecessarily difficult. Who wants to have to look up the level of every monster they're hunting items from and have to switch to a probably less effective character once out of this pointless "hunting range"? Applying a mechanic from other MMOs to RO won't work just because it's from a game of the same genre.

Edited by Resplendent, 15 September 2010 - 05:06 AM.

[TheGuindo]

With bonus of 40% per party-member, and 1000 base experience, values would look like this:

3 party-member : 1400/3 = 466, 46% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
4 party-member : 1800/4 = 450, 45% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
5 party-member : 2200/5 = 440, 44% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
6 party-member : 2600/6 = 433, 43% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
7 party-member : 3000/7 = 428, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
8 party-member : 3400/8 = 425, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
9 party-member : 3800/9 = 422, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
10 party-member : 4200/10 = 420, 42% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
11 party-member : 4600/11 = 418, 41% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.
12 party-member : 5000/12 = 416, 41% of experience you would normally gain killing this monster alone.

I like this. When you also consider the bonus to exp for each character hitting a monster, it means there is a lot of incentive to form large parties in high level areas.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that it needs to be programmed so the bonus only applies while exp share is on. Imagine gators KC parties on Valk - they're frequently at the 12 member limit, and if everyone was getting that bonus individually, exp would be absolutely crazy. Lots of potential for abuse there.

So I really like the idea of a 40% bonus per character past the second, but it needs to be set so the bonus only applies when exp share is on.


Also agreed on drop penalties needing to match exp penalties. If the point of drop penalties is to encourage players to "move on," why are you trying to encourage them to "move on" past the enemies that provide them with the best exp?

[Babbles]

I'm not exactly sure how the EXP rates are coded, but it looks like you specify a table of level differences and rates. How about this improved Babbles System:

For EXP:

Player - Monster    Rate
    - 20 to -160    250%
    - 15 to - 19    200%
    - 10 to - 14    150%
    -  8 to -  9    130%
    -  5 to -  7    120%
    -  3 to -  4    110%
    -  2 to +  2    100%
    +  3 to +  4     90%
    +  5 to +  7     80%
    +  8 to +  9     70%
    + 10 to + 14     60%
    + 15 to + 19     35%
    + 20 to +160     20%

In terms of EXP, killing a monster 15 levels higher requires a party. It is harder, and they are not worth all that much more EXP than a monster of your own level. The real reason for the EXP modifier is so that a person can't 99 on Porings (or would be insane to do so), because a monster's EXP increases slowly with its level. So what if a friend can tank that Poporing for you? There needs to be some advantage to having a high level, established character and friends. This curve also provides an increased incentive to party. The larger and better the party, the further above their individual levels it can hunt, and the greater the return will be (until it gets split up).

For Drops:

Player - Monster    Rate
    -  2 to -160    100%
    +  3 to +  4    110%
    +  5 to +  7    120%
    +  8 to +  9    140%
    + 10 to + 14    170%
    + 15 to + 19    200%
    + 20 to + 30    250%
    + 31 to + 40    300%
    + 41 to + 50    350%
    + 51 to + 70    400%
    + 71 to +100    450%
    +101 to +130    500%
    +131 to +160   1000%

I think this speaks for itself. As monsters become fodder, you get more drops. It becomes feasible to hunt up a Peco Egg Card.

Really, I would like to see some kind of system where LUK affects drop rates. Maybe a 0.3% increased chance for every point of LUK (e.g. a lvl 100 character with 50 LUK attacking a lvl 90 monster would have a 170 * 1.15 = 195.5% drop rate.

[shilin]

is the mvp setting mvp-only, or do they apply to boss monsters in general?

[Clogon]

MVP ONLY

[Hrothmund]

yeah no leveling on kasas from 90 to 150

(actually thats a good thing)

*edit* penalties on MVPs appear to be applied. according to doddlers renewal monster database Atroce has 1,080,000 exp and is lvl 117. I killed it at lvl 140 and got exactly 50% of that.

Edited by Hrothmund, 15 September 2010 - 05:33 PM.

[Hrothmund]

^^ bump are exp penalties supposed to apply to MVP's?

[Seraphiel]

^^ bump are exp penalties supposed to apply to MVP's?

I think not. At least they don't on kRO. You can kill e.g lv.140 MvP with a character of lv.90 and you will get tons of exp. That's how most Champions/Suras are leveling on kRO.

Edited by Seraphiel, 18 September 2010 - 01:45 AM.

[Hrothmund]

oh wait do databases list MVP exp as base+reward? I always figured the listed amount was the base exp but maybe im mistaken since i guess technically I did get 100% exp on Atroce, it was just from two seperate parts.

[TwilightsCall]

The way I understand it is, an MVP has a certain amount of EXP (ie Atroce gives a total of 1,080,000). Then, half of the EXP that the MVP gives is given to whoever MVPs, and the other half is split amongst everyone as if it was a normal monster.

That should explain what happened in your screenshot, as well as why the MVP reward was exactly half of his normal base exp.

[Doddler]

Can we get an update on this for the new drop rate adjustments?

[Heimdallr]

the MVP Reward Drop and exp are not effected.

But MVPs also have their "monster" drops and exp which certainly are effected by the level difference..

So yeah that is something that we are discussing with HQ, as MVPs should be entirely excluded from this.

[Doddler]

Hmm, that's interesting. The MVP experience is not affected as far as I can tell, I am getting the correct amount (I think!). It's confusing when you first do it because the base exp is split into two bonuses instead of one, but it gives you everything you need. If they were affected by the exp penalty, the regular exp would be 10% of the expected amount wouldn't it?

Although I'm not certain on drops. Easiest way is to kill eddga on a level 150 character a few times. If he does not drop honey any time (and be careful not to hit his mob cause they drop honey too), then you know it's being affected.

Edited by Doddler, 22 September 2010 - 08:50 PM.

[DrAzzy]

As of the update yesterday, what are the new settings for the drop penalty?

[limnuz]

Players are not heard, we are here only to detect bugs, not to give suggestion. This is the consideration they have for us.

[Doddler]

Players are not heard, we are here only to detect bugs, not to give suggestion. This is the consideration they have for us.

Well obviously that's the case now, bugs are much higher priority than suggestions for a number of reasons. Still, it's not like suggestions are being ignored. Suggestions however may be more valid when players have experienced renewal for a while.

[Carlossus]

The patch notes say that the drop penalties have been modified but I can't see any more info about it. Have I missed the post somewhere or has no info been released on what the changes were yet?
Haven't been on to see if it's drastically changed, anyone noticed the difference?

Edited by Carlossus, 23 September 2010 - 10:08 AM.

[Hrothmund]

I think the idea is we go out and test them, to see if the perceived problem is the same as the real situation.

[Doddler]

My understanding is that drop rates are matching the new kRO rates. So regular drops up to 30 level difference, and then they decline to 50% penalty at 60 level difference. The rate and amount of the decline is up for debate but my guess is for a linear reduction. Even if we don't know the exact numbers, you can kind of extrapolate. Testing drop rate penalty however is really hard to do, so we won't really know for sure until someone tells us.

Edited by Doddler, 23 September 2010 - 03:13 PM.

[Hrothmund]

I went and did a rough test using 150 char vs roda frogs (lvl 3?) who have webfoot drop at 90% and bottles at 20%

first 100 kills:
42 webfoot
4 empty bottles
2 spawn
1 green herb

2nd 100 kills:
49 webfoot
8 empty bottles
2 spawn
2 green herb

So it looks like the max range one is still a 50% penalty based on the common (90%) drop. The other ones are too small a sample to be useful.