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#26 Genesis

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:59 AM

UW is better! just bring it back

You'll have to do better than that. In what ways would you consider Union War a better game experience over Crystal Defenders? If there is something good that can be taken from old Union War system and adapted to Crystal Defenders, I'd like to hear it.
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#27 NamirBarades

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:27 AM

You'll have to do better than that. In what ways would you consider Union War a better game experience over Crystal Defenders? If there is something good that can be taken from old Union War system and adapted to Crystal Defenders, I'd like to hear it.



Oh lets see.. The numbers were more fun--even though it was outnumbered a lot..But every new patch seems to be scaring more people away. I happen to love being thrown into a ridiculous crowd and having to keep a party of six alive, but now we barely even have enough to play CD. I played a few CD on my champ as well, and CD is just a lot easier and requires far less skill. For me, I don't know about others, but playing cleric is stupid now--which sucks because thats my main class and the class I play 90% of the time. Pretty much you're encouraging us to just spam heal--Gear doesn't matter..so nevermind the billions of zuly and lots of real money spent on getting my gear where it is now.. I could throw on some mildly refined int gear and be doing better than I am doing now--It requires much less skill if I'm in it just for points.

I'm not rewarded for actually supporting my group which includes more than just heal--Its also buffing, muting other clerics, stunning people so my fighters can escape to be healed.. No if you want points as a cleric, just ignore actually supporting people and just spam heal. It would be like telling the other classes they can only use one skill to get a points.

Winning doesn't actually matter. I've got no incentive to keep my group alive to be honest.. If I lose I still get a decent amount of points from healing people as I watch them die--And it doesn't matter if I let them die because it doesn't effect anyone's points so I don't even have to feel bad as mrJohnSmith gets raped, and I'm more concerned about healing the crystal for points. In uw I actually felt like I had a purpose, to keep them alive--because it actually did effect you..Clerics didn't lose points from dieing in uw, but fighters could--So I had a reason to give it my all and keep them alive..

I actually prefer the open map on Uw, easier to see what is going on as I usually liked to play zoomed out--I always find that more appealing aesthetically. Now its just a whole lot of close quarter chaos, that really is meaningless because everyone is out to get points.

I don't think I even need to go into how some people are treating clerics, and boy are those jerks coming out of the woodworks.

Buffsets are rendered useless--I know you guys acknowledge buffsets as a bug, but it really is what made this game so interesting and it wasn't like they were not attainable by everyone. It gives the game more variety and seemingly endless choices to what to use against your enemy. You can use them for the intial buff still, I guess, but after that its pointless(which was probably your intent, but its really going to keep driving people away from the game) Not to mention that taking away goulash and buffpots have made Junon look so empty--I can only imagine how its effecting the economy.
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#28 Howie

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:38 AM

UW is better! just bring it back

Honestly, I beg to differ.

Crystal Defenders, in my opinion, is better than union war for plenty of reasons. It eliminates leechers, promotes group work/participation, it happens way more often (though at the beginning it didn't seem so but it's fixed so whatever!), makes buffing clerics more desirable, and makes bourgs somewhat useful again.

That's just what comes up in the top of my mind. I think it's great. ;D slight bug fixes and it'll be even better!
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#29 kumpiakot

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:39 AM

here are some bug issues on GA..would be nice if we can fix it...hope you can do the leech thing on UW as what u had on game arena...garena set up is really nice and fun but the only main issue there is " GATHERING 24 PLAYERS WHICH IS REALLY HARD " remember we have diff time zones :(

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#30 Genesis

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:43 AM

It wasn't documented in the patch notes, but the taunting of crystal should have been addressed in patch 401.
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#31 ChupaChupsJr

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:49 AM

game arena is fine, but UW still the best for the people, we cant start game arena on draco instantly, wer not populated like leonis.

good job on dev team for giving us arena, but in reality, game arena system makes people quit. (buff pots,buff set, sets r useless).


haha yes gathering people is hard task on draco.

Edited by ChupaChupsJr, 28 April 2012 - 05:53 AM.

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#32 kumpiakot

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:53 AM

It wasn't documented in the patch notes, but the taunting of crystal should have been addressed in patch 401.


thanks gen...oh one more thing you see the first picture on top the plant fence something...it would be nice if you can move it a bit or the crystal itself so the long range (ba,bourg,scout) would not just stand from outskirts of the plant fence and keep hittin the crystal as a huge advantage while the defenders need to go around and take em down..thanks genesis
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#33 NamirBarades

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:57 AM

Honestly, I beg to differ.

Crystal Defenders, in my opinion, is better than union war for plenty of reasons. It eliminates leechers, promotes group work/participation, it happens way more often (though at the beginning it didn't seem so but it's fixed so whatever!), makes buffing clerics more desirable, and makes bourgs somewhat useful again.

That's just what comes up in the top of my mind. I think it's great. ;D slight bug fixes and it'll be even better!



Buff clerics.. Desirable in the way that I really like the verbal abuse, being treated like a slave..and what not. And when we need help? I watch the same poor int clerics die over and over because the fighters are too worried about being off fighting, spawn killing, and getting their points as the same poor int cleric guarding the crystal alone gets raped by the same raider over and over(with a ten second forced downtime!)--Sounds like group work to me. -.- Its a very one way relationship for clerics(and Im not saying all fighters are like this..just the mass majority). The only plus to me having better gear is I'm harder to take down.. The only group participation I see really is everyone going to the spawn to kill a bunch of unbuffed people--otherwise its much the same.. fighters going in 12 different directions to hit things..

They could have eliminated leechers in uw in a very similar way that they did here, with some adjustments so people from the same home/internet cafe/whatever could play together--They could have easily kept both like we thought the original plan was.. to lessen the number of uws(though I didn't agree with that) and put the game arena out. That way they could have pleased everyone instead of a select group.
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#34 GreylaVu

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 06:01 AM

why do you even want to join the Arena?its the same as Union Wars.bunch of over powered Champs Spawn Camping. where is the fun in that?is it any wonder that you have few people that want to join?and each time they spawn camp they drive a few more players away from the Arena.the M-Speed on champs needs a good nerfing for sure.
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#35 NamirBarades

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 06:07 AM

Another thing about the Arena that sucks..is if you dont know when a game is going to start or around it..You can't afk. At least with Uw it was always the same time over and over..so I knew when I could take a bathroom break. -.-
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#36 VnzlaGuille

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:03 AM

The game arena is a mess, it only supports a few, draco have gone a lot of characters (including me), what happened to spending buffsets and armors, for a single build of uw? I thought that managers would think something more intelligent than my opinion would be the following:

Lock in the bot (Keong), if possible and do not want so many afk in uw, the best we can do is what has enabled other games, block multiclient! is that block would generate chaos multiclient here, because even I use 2 accounts, but what could be done is enabled for only 2 clients to open anything more for pc, not ip, because it would not fail the people who play in cybercafes, entering the game, would think of something clever, others would quickly bring back the friend list! If possible try to create a new CW and get honor points or not, or simply to gain clan war position in a ranking clan maybe?

Another thing they forget is the artisan! more and created more teams and stuff, they say it unusable, and no artisan of SEN, the CON have a lot of gems that do not sell, just buy chems, the economy of the game with each patch ah been falling sharply, with ah the new patch and dropped a new victim and is the collection of lisents and powder, that was the only thing left to make good money, i am just IM and want to buy new IM if people have no way of income?

Make changes to help those new to progress and achieve to be like the old players, but do the opposite, make the task harder!, I know you can achieve something better, and hope they do soon, or the game will go slowly falling in draconis already begun.

is that more than one child will come to mock or complain about this, I leave post in advance that neither know nor am interested in the opinion of the, I only care about the opinion of the management team and now, thanks and good luck.

Edited by VnzlaGuille, 28 April 2012 - 09:06 AM.

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#37 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 09:31 AM

ChupaChupsJr, on 28 April 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

UW is better! just bring it back


In what ways would you consider Union War a better game experience over Crystal Defenders? If there is something good that can be taken from old Union War system and adapted to Crystal Defenders, I'd like to hear it.


Is it true that with the Arena Naughty and I can't play together at the same time because we live in the same house and share the same IP? If this is true, then the Union War is a better game experience for us because we can play together. We don't want to play on opposing side to each other.

Naughty got an email from Gravity inviting her to play, yet she can't play with me, her husband? Thats like rubbing it in that we can't play. Would we? Sure we would. We have played Union Wars together although not lately. If people of the same IP can't play together, the new Game Arena discriminates against family members playing together, such as siblings, parents and their kids etc. Wasn't it Gravity just a few years ago were encouraging Parents to play with their kids?

I suggest you IP ban the leachers and allow the law abiding players to join the new Game Arena. This is unacceptable to not allow people in the same home/IP together. It's not right. (assuming this is true that you will only allow one Client from an IP into the Arena).

Btw, whats is planned for the PVM arena which has been discussed on the forums?
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#38 Phish

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:02 AM

There are many differences in opinion about which is better between Crystal Defenders and Union War, and it's expected because one mode was used to replace the other. I can't really say which is better but they both have their pros and cons.



Union War:

Pros:
  • On a scheduled time so you don't have to be present at your computer/Rose client when waiting.
  • While being able to log in your personal cleric or use buff pots it leaves more emphasis on individual builds.
  • Rebuffing and regrouping is easier due to safer spawns.
  • The Dusk crystal allows the defending side a chance to recover if they lose control.
  • No IP restrictions allow people on the same internet to play.
Cons:
  • Because you can log in a personal cleric it leaves less importance to active clerics (yes they are still important).
  • The point system heavily allows for leeching, due to less points gained for participating.
  • You need to wait at minimum 2 hours between wars.
  • The ability to use item mall buffs corrupts the integrity of gameplay.
  • Sides are almost always imbalanced.
  • The combination of food and potions strongly emphasize a tier list between classes; certain classes are incapable of killing on another due to the hp recovery.
Crystal Defenders:

Pros:
  • The queuing system helps balance sides, and allows friends to team together.
  • Wars can happen more frequently.
  • Points are distributed more for participating rather than sitting idle and winning.
  • The removal of food helps more classes to stand a chance against one another.
  • More emphasis on team work.
  • The map has slightly more possibilities for ambush attacks rather than head to head fighting.
  • Scoreboard at the end of each war.
Cons:
  • Respawns are unprotected and it leads to spawn camping and making it harder to regroup.
  • Once one side gets momentum it is difficult for the opposing side to recover (due to spawns, lack of dusk crystal)
  • If there aren't enough people signing up, (Draconis) it can difficult to start a war.
  • You need to be present on your Rose client to accept the queue, if you miss it someone else may take your position and you will have to wait for the next war.
  • IP restrictions make it impossible for people using the same internet to join wars together.
  • Lack of buff potions and personal clerics negate the possibility of buffsets, which in turn limit your characters build.
  • Clerics are crucial and the side with more clerics usually has the edge.
  • Buffs randomly disappear (probably only visual).
  • There is a bug where your character may be perpetually 'stunned' until you are purified or stunned again. You can move around but cannot skill.
Personally, I find the crystal defenders to be fun even though there are a few things that could make it better. I would still like to see Union Wars return in the future with some improvements we see in the Crystal Defenders.

Edited by Phish, 28 April 2012 - 05:49 PM.

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#39 Stach

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

Phish knows what he's talking about. He should have say in these changes.
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#40 captainpilyo

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:20 PM

You'll have to do better than that. In what ways would you consider Union War a better game experience over Crystal Defenders? If there is something good that can be taken from old Union War system and adapted to Crystal Defenders, I'd like to hear it.


well, you can do something about a player when he dc inside the game arena, he can never come back and get his points. and i got this suggestion, can you disable grouping, cause that sometimes makes it hard to start a game. just like a game yesterday, there are two groups forming, my group is already 15, the other 8. and there are a whole clan of "activeviruses", they are 15 also and just joined Q, i told them to disband their group and just join individual Q, done that a THOUSAND times. but to no avail. they kept talking like, we are full group now. so, i said, there are two groups forming and your group is not one of them so unless you guys disband your group and join individual Q. no game will start. then after 20 mins of talking to them. they finally disband and a game started, i hope you understand my point.
making a group seems to be the problem sometimes. i suggest to disable it or limit making a group to just 5 members. by limiting it to 5 members, people actually can create groups easily because of there's 15 members each team. 5 + 5 + 5 = 15. where in case, 8 member group + 9 member group + 10 member group = i hope you get my point.
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#41 Cutiieee

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:25 PM

good job on dev team for giving us arena, but in reality, game arena system makes people quit. (buff pots,buff set, sets r useless).


You can't blame garena for elimating buff sets, they could have easily nerfed them without implementing garena. Also, many of us have no problem getting at least some of our buffsets used, if not all.

I would like to add I think garena is a lot more fun than the old UW (except when one side spawn camps) because sides are more balanced, unlike UW when some wars are like 15v1, and the forced teamwork aspect of it. IMO, after refining garena (fixing them glitches and dc's), garena would totally trump UW. But... if a new UW had a way to implement a balancing system and to elimate leechers, then by all means bring back UW.

+1 for Fish
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#42 ChupaChupsJr

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

they are askin about fixin bug on game arena,why not UW 1st, overall in UW we can play 15+ vs 15+ on open field,its like real WAR.
im not against game arena, its fun also but its more fun if we hav people around you,unlike today, its like dead city w/ just full of collectors, :p_sick: some are waiting and hoping that rose will be back! like old days.


game arena is like casual game, build for instant fun only.
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#43 CoffeeMuse

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:25 PM

Phish,

You need to add into your Union War "pros" section that people on the same internet/IP can play together.

They don't seem to care but this is one more thing my wife and I are shut out from. What the cluck is going on here?
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#44 KingsBane

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:04 AM

I think defenders is fun it has some kinks but they can be ironed out. Union wars gave you a side to fight for. Made you part of a team and it made sense within the game logic of things. I dont see why uw cant make a return say 4 times a day running in paralell with defenders. Defenders needs a little more reasoning into why its in the game. Unions are dead now what is the point to junon order or ferrel guild these guilds should be returned to the game some how.
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#45 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:34 AM

The crystal defender is very nice but the only thing that kills it, is the stun status bug, the sleep status and stun status bugged each other for some reason, so you are stuck with this stun status forever, you can move around but you can't use any skill at all which makes it very frustrating when playing a cleric seeing your team members get dropped 1 by 1 and you can't do anything to save them. :Emo_22: :Emo_22: :Emo_22:
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#46 Cloudius

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:43 AM

Good things about the Crystal Defenders are:

Bourgeois (Launcher-types in particular) became actually useful
Mages now do real skills instead of debuffing
Clerics able to gain full points without decent gears
Clerics more relied upon, instead of food and buff pots
Use of boosters nulled
On-demand
Easier to get honor points
Fancy Map
Balanced wars (Numbers-wise)
Scoreboard (bragging rights!)

At least for me, Crystal Defenders is way better than UW. It just needs some getting used to, bug fixes, GM's promoting it more frequently (Draconis), fancier rewards (costumes, medals, belts), and more people joining it rather than complaining.

Edited by Cloudius, 29 April 2012 - 05:47 AM.

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#47 kumpiakot

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:43 AM

how about making a specific time for UW?lets say every 3hours? then players who joined the UW would be pretty much interested in joining garena its just like we need to boost some peoples mood again to get on the garena continuously... UW would be the FIRE STARTER for the game arena just to be a REMINDER for players that before/after UW we can still sign up for garena....nerf the honor points on UW into half, make the crystal softer like in garena, reduce the time from 30mins to 10mins.... :)

Edited by kumpiakot, 29 April 2012 - 05:44 AM.

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#48 pandasoup23

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:17 AM

i was originally against the game arena, but it seems that there are more willing players that finally understand the concept of "alt g, jion queue" we had like 6 games in a row on draco last night and a few this morning...ppl just have to get used to it and JOIN QUEUE!!! :]
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#49 Kermaperuna

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:49 AM

Your dear UW is not the same as it used to be, those passive calculation changes will be staying either way.
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#50 Santa1K

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:20 AM

http://forums.warppo...e/page__st__175

I haven't seen anyone else providing a real solution.

Don't say it's not possible when it really is. Nothing is impossible with coding.

It takes a lot of work, but clearly no one else is coming up with any better idea. Nothing is working thus far.
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