51 replies to this topic

[Genesis]

With the conversion of Cave of Ulverick and Halls of Oblivion to the Game Arena now completed, I would like to gather some feedback of your experiences with the new versions of these dungeons, and any suggestions for improvement that can be kept in mind for future dungeons.

Our goal with these conversions is to improve on the existing dungeon content to gain some insight into what will be needed to create new dungeons which are more engaging and desirable to play, and with your feedback we can continue to improve on what has been started.

Your feedback can cover anything - difficulty of monsters, suggestions for new features or mechanics, quest additions, rewards, etc.

I recommend that you play the new versions of Cave of Ulverick and Halls of Oblivion at least once before posting your feedback, and not rely on your experiences from the pre-GA versions of the dungeons.

Edited by Genesis, 01 July 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[LostFire]

why we cant enter Cave of Ulverick ? ive got 4 members w/ level ranging to 132-150 ..

[Genesis]

If you sign up as a group of 4, one of the group members must be a support cleric.

[Genesis]

From the initial feedback, a few adjustments and bug fixes will be made that affect Cave of Ulverick in the next patch:

Game Arena Changes

• Removed EXP Loss when killed in Game Arena dungeons.
• Disabled Save Town/Dungeon Entrance respawn option in Game Arena dungeons. Note: Use the Current Field option in the meantime or you will be teleported out of the dungeon.
• Removed Support Cleric requirement to queue up for dungeons.

Cave of Ulverick Changes

• Reduced probability of Anansi Recluse, Arachne Recluse and Ulverick cast their stun skills on the group.
• Significantly reduced probability of Ulverick healing itself.
• Anansi Recluse and Arachne Recluse will no longer be able to heal themselves.

Edited by Genesis, 22 June 2012 - 10:04 AM.

[LostFire]

as we experienced lately, both of my team mates asks why monster are not giving any xp at all, even the king..
and the rewards are a lil bit bad, gives us 30 valor points .
one of my team mate got a lisent U 4pcs. while the others got none. isnt it a lil bit unfair?
too bad for cleric, got nothing good at all, he was hoping for a big xp.

[luciolle]

as we experienced lately, both of my team mates asks why monster are not giving any xp at all, even the king..
and the rewards are a lil bit bad, gives us 30 valor points .
one of my team mate got a lisent U 4pcs. while the others got none. isnt it a lil bit unfair?
too bad for cleric, got nothing good at all, he was hoping for a big xp.

Well, it's a dungeon not a place to lvl, but why not? =)

Regarding the drops there's a minimum of two items given, max is 4; drop which are either : Uniques (cursed staff, firelock etc...), Lisent U, Jewel chest V, king ulverick medallion, hermes, and finally archonophobia jewelry (the set prob gives +10% pvm offense and +10% pvm resistance).

As for suggestions, I would say add a time limit, and maybe as CD make a recap at the end, with damage dealt monsters killed etc... I also think you could increase the valor points per number of monsters killed (like monsters give from +0.25 to +1 valor points) as a matter of fact taking time to clear all the rooms would worth it. And for clerics, increasing the valor points based on the heals. This would be in addition to the 60valors points given by the 3 big ones.

edit : oh well noticed Phish had the same suggestion in the patch note. The way valor points drop like clan points is a nice idea!

Spoiler

Some feedback for the Ulverick Quest after this patch:

Note: I did not take part in it prior to today.


One attempt, was myself (champ) and two support clerics.


It took 21 minutes to complete defeat Ulverick and his minions. 1 death total.

Another attempt, one of the clerics decided to use here (katar) Raider and complete the raid alone. After buffing up with a cleric she completed the raid in 15 minutes while the rest of us chilled at the entrance. 1 death total.


As a solo Raider, you can stealth past all of the regular spiders to the sub boss and boss. Cloak while it is out of range, then run in and slaughter it for 15 seconds before retreating, wait for the cooldown to end, rinse and repeat.

While under attack of a cloaked raider the bosses is clueless and just takes damage. When under attack of a non cloaked character, the bosses attacks and spams its 100% success aoe stun every 5 seconds or so (as well as a debuff here and there). It's ridiculous that a solo person can complete this raid more efficiently than a group of people.


It's really exhausting to fight Ulverick. I mean, it should be a challenge, but right now it's kind of cheap ripoff of one.


My suggestions:

• Give the boss a decloak skill: It doesn't have to spam it, but atleast be able to do something when attacked by a cloaked raider.

• Reduce the frequency of Ulverick's Stun: Remember when the concussion grenades had a shorter cooldown? Now imagine they were an aoe. It's ok if it has this skill to use once in awhile, but spamming it every 5 seconds just makes the whole fight a drag. Give it some other skills to mix up.A single target attack power debuff, or defense debuff. One skill could be a strong attack speed buff it castes on itself. (30%, with 30 second duration, 90 second cooldown), which could give Mages a good use in the party to be able to debuff it.

• Add some kind of reward for killing the lesser spiders:Yes, you may need to clear the path to help the party get through, but if you are fast enough or have stealth you can get by without having any reason to kill them. Give each spider a low chance to yield valor points. Hatchlings: 1%, other spiders 2-4%. When they yield points they could be a consumable drop like clan points, but when picked up goes to someone random in the group. (This is so support classes could still receive points from it)

That is all for now.

Edited by luciolle, 23 June 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[OtelDouDou]

Same than above, having all party members recieving sthg when Ulverick's finally dead would be nice... and fair

[Bendersmom]

I like that you don't get exp since a lot of people made chars just for the dungeons. I don't want to level out.
1. If you kick someone from the group once you are inside the whole group gets teleported out. People are abusing this.
2. There is a chance for the king to decloak, raiders are taking advantage of cloak to go in, kick extra members in group, and kill the king with cloak so they get the rewards only.
3. I suggest that some of the minnions have a chance to drop items such as lisent, powders, chems, and things like that.
4. The points you get are good, I don't think those need to be increased. You get them for all 3 bosses.
5. The cleric, if good, does just fine in there. Ours follows us and heals and gets points when the bosses are defeated just like everyone else. Also has a chance of drops from the king. They don't need points for healing.
6. You can use pots and buffs and they took out the need for a cleric in queue so you dont have to have a cleric with you.
7. I suggest they make the dungeon for 4 minimum and 6 maximum.
8. Lower the HP of the final king a bit, not too much though, it should be hard.
9. No time limit so you can actually farm a bit by killing all the minionns, if they drop items. You will not stay in too long since they don't respawn. And it doesnt matter if u stay in all day since it won't effect others getting in.

[Phish]

I haven't seen people kicking others, but that sounds bad. What I do see however, is alot of leeching. Some people sign up for the quest, and just afk the whole time while inside, they still get the reward like everyone else even though they don't do anything.

[RagingHormones]

Is there any way that the aspeed of the spiders can be brought down? Running through the cave without cloak kind of feels like you're being machine gunned. Reminds me of when Orlo Part 1 was introduced, with the little snakes with over 9000 mspeed and aspeed.

[luciolle]

Is there any way that the aspeed of the spiders can be brought down? Running through the cave without cloak kind of feels like you're being machine gunned. Reminds me of when Orlo Part 1 was introduced, with the little snakes with over 9000 mspeed and aspeed.

They already reduced it

[Bendersmom]

Raiders with boosters, cloak and buff pots can do the whole cave in a matter of minutes without the help of anyone else. They only need the 4 people to form the group and get in. A lot of people have been complaining of getting in the queue just to enter the cave and and be booted from the party. Then when the king is killed they get nothing.

And the asped of the spiders doesn't have to be lowered. You are supposed to kill them on the way through. This is not supposed to be a cake walk to the bosses, you are supposed to fight and work for the rewards. Hopefully they will give some drops to the spiders so it is worthwhile killing them other than to just clear the way.

[DestinyDeoxys]

I like that you don't get exp since a lot of people made chars just for the dungeons. I don't want to level out.
1. If you kick someone from the group once you are inside the whole group gets teleported out. People are abusing this.
2. There is a chance for the king to decloak, raiders are taking advantage of cloak to go in, kick extra members in group, and kill the king with cloak so they get the rewards only.
3. I suggest that some of the minnions have a chance to drop items such as lisent, powders, chems, and things like that.
4. The points you get are good, I don't think those need to be increased. You get them for all 3 bosses.
5. The cleric, if good, does just fine in there. Ours follows us and heals and gets points when the bosses are defeated just like everyone else. Also has a chance of drops from the king. They don't need points for healing.
6. You can use pots and buffs and they took out the need for a cleric in queue so you dont have to have a cleric with you.
7. I suggest they make the dungeon for 4 minimum and 6 maximum.
8. Lower the HP of the final king a bit, not too much though, it should be hard.
9. No time limit so you can actually farm a bit by killing all the minionns, if they drop items. You will not stay in too long since they don't respawn. And it doesnt matter if u stay in all day since it won't effect others getting in.

1) Then they need to disable this kick function and add an auto teleport out function after the Ulverick is defeated.
2) Kicking extra members out of the dungeon is the selfish people's fault, not the raider's fault. Imagine cloaking didn't exist, you would say those pesky bourgs kick every one out of the dungeon, so they get the reward at the end. In this case, I prefer them to give reward to every participants, not only 2 out of 4.
3) The minions definitely deserve to either drop some stuff or give valor points like the mob in Clan field drops clan points.
4) 15 + 15 + 30 = total 60 valor points per hunt, good as it is, but like I said above we might as well add some valor points drop from the mobs.
5) It's team work, if the valor points drop on floor is given to every member, then healing don't need extra rewards.
6) I don't know if IM boosters is allowed or not, if so then it's fine, since bonfire is basically useless with the amount of stuns.
7) More work for the cleric though.
8) The HP of the Ulverick is fine, but they need to lower the frequency of his stuns by at least half, it's not any sort of challenge at all when the only thing the boss does is stun every 6 sec with 3 sec duration.
9) The highest active group count I saw was 2, so I don't know if the active group count is unlimited or just 2. But there is a problem I obsesrved for the queue system, for example you have 5 people for this (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th), and if the 1st guy queue alone and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th form a group and queue, the group of four will get stuck and not proceed, the queue system still asking if there are peers for the 1st guy and totally ignore the group of four.


Note: Regarding raiders, they have always been the best candidates for boss hunt with concentrated mobs that the boss has overpowered stun and debuffs, The amount of boss hunt situation like this in all 4 planets is very limited, any boss under Lv.100 would not work because cloaking/crazy-style slash/flame slash do not exist, the only boss that makes raider cloaking comes in handy are Varus, Junon CF Krawfy king, Queen Kera, Bone Spider King and King Ulverick in this case. Otherwise, any kind of boss hunt situation are better with a party of champion, mage, cleric, bourg. In general, katar raiders are just not welcomed at all in a party, they have always been considered a leecher since the beginning of ROSE, the only thing that makes katar raiders unique and useful in PvM situation is boss hunt.

With the addition of valor points dropping from regular mobs for the dungeons which is what a party of cleric/mage/champion/bourg are suited well for, katar raider are designed to wander off from party to hunt stuff, as you see in game arena - crystal defenders, it's just not smart to use cloaking under thousands of melee weapon swing at each other. And with the lowered boss stun frequency plus some skill adjustment, (for example giving up Lv.4 purify and Lv.1 Soul revive, you would be able to learn Lv.5 soul doubt, which will make the boss hunt faster and easier for a party of champion/mage/cleric/bourg, if you give a de-cloak for the Ulverick, you will just kill the raider class totally, because the boss will just kill a raider in matter of 2-3 hits, because dodge does not work on boss at all and they are as defenseless as a mage.

FYI, with 1 raider full buffed, it usually take about 15mins for a hunt, and with 2 raider full buffed, it takes me 8mins 20sec for a hunt.

[RagingHormones]

Raiders with boosters, cloak and buff pots can do the whole cave in a matter of minutes without the help of anyone else. They only need the 4 people to form the group and get in. A lot of people have been complaining of getting in the queue just to enter the cave and and be booted from the party. Then when the king is killed they get nothing.

And the asped of the spiders doesn't have to be lowered. You are supposed to kill them on the way through. This is not supposed to be a cake walk to the bosses, you are supposed to fight and work for the rewards. Hopefully they will give some drops to the spiders so it is worthwhile killing them other than to just clear the way.

Well, if a party was made out of non-aoe classes (scout, arti, raider, cleric, etc) or had only 1 aoe toon, that's quite a task you're asking of them. Should they spend twice as long killing the spiders (and twice as long being aspeed/critlocked) just because they didn't luck out and get aoe classes in their group? (again, with the issue of certain classes doing certain parts of the dungeon faster) I don't think it should be a necessity, but as an option people can choose to take if they want additional rewards (if they do get implemented later).

No time limit so you can actually farm a bit by killing all the minionns, if they drop items. You will not stay in too long since they don't respawn. And it doesnt matter if u stay in all day since it won't effect others getting in.

I don't really follow what you mean in this. If you're occupying 1 out of 4 spaces, you're already lowering the chance that someone who hasn't done it will take one of those four places.

I believe they should put in a time limit (30-40 min, after they change frequency of ulverick stuns so boss is easier to kill). Otherwise a party could stay in, farm a bit, maybe afk a little, knowing their position is secure, and take their leisure time while the rest of us would have to wait an hour or god knows how long before we can get in. And the spiders do respawn (ulverick's minions, the other grunt spiders take longer but they still do). Make it something like Turak's quest where it's timed and where people aren't at the mercy of the previous party's discretions. And if you can't finish it by the accorded time, well "this is not supposed to be a cake walk" so gear up and prepare accordingly.

[Bendersmom]

I don't really follow what you mean in this. If you're occupying 1 out of 4 spaces, you're already lowering the chance that someone who hasn't done it will take one of those four places.

I believe they should put in a time limit (30-40 min, after they change frequency of ulverick stuns so boss is easier to kill). Otherwise a party could stay in, farm a bit, maybe afk a little, knowing their position is secure, and take their leisure time while the rest of us would have to wait an hour or god knows how long before we can get in. And the spiders do respawn (ulverick's minions, the other grunt spiders take longer but they still do). Make it something like Turak's quest where it's timed and where people aren't at the mercy of the previous party's discretions. And if you can't finish it by the accorded time, well "this is not supposed to be a cake walk" so gear up and prepare accordingly.

If one party is in the cave another party can enter their own instance. The first party, even if they go afk, doesn't effect the secod party. You can have multiple instance and groups in the dungeons, they all get their own dungeon instance. Before they changes the HP on the King there were 4 groups in one time that I signed up. So the first group in can do as they like, farm, go afk, etc and it won't effect other groups wanting to join. Therefore you don't need a timer. It doesn't matter. And if the other minnions spawn again then you can farm in there all day and not effect anyone else. I don't think the drops should be so good that you sit there and farm all day, but if you want to you can.

I understand about raiders, they are squishy if they get attacked and can't fight back. But there are raiders taking advantage of the cave and kicking other group members just so the raider can get the drops. My gut feeling is that those raiders (and there are actually a lot of them) might ruine the caves for other raiders.

[RagingHormones]

Hm, I wasn't aware there were multiple instances able to go. In the first few days I was in a group of four (when 1 cleric was required), and we were all set but the dungeon would never start and there was already an active instance at that time. It was only after we kicked our cleric and went in on our own in solo queue to find an afk cleric in Ulverick. We didnt have buff pots and needed heals (no raider) and had to wait until that cleric finally got off an hour later before we could actually do anything inside. They fixed that due to getting rid of the cleric requirement- great, but the main issue here is afking/leeching. Whereas some people might be able to go in in parties of four, some people do solo queue or go in parties of two and to find afk members sitting on the stairs expecting whoever comes in to do all the work is kind of aggravating.

Edited by RagingHormones, 27 June 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Bendersmom]

Can we make this thread about all dungeons? The new dungeon is nice but a few things need to be fixed.
1. There is a death glitch that you get if you go through the portals and are killed while going through. You don't get the respawn notice and the restore crystals don't work. You have to relog.
2. A lot of people just run through and don't bother killing the minnions. If they occasionally dropped items like lisent, powders, high chems, etc people would farm more. An occasionaly valor point isnt worth it.
3. Please make it so that purify pots work in the dungeons.
4. The king at the end does no damage.
5. The second round of monsters have a 60 sec mute/sleep. That is way too long.
6. The sub bosses don't drop anything. It seems like they should.
7. The new jewelry set is nice but should probably be as good as the honor jewelry sets like Nature Force jewelry or whatever.

The raiders still seem able to do well in the dungeons even with the decloak, I like that addition. In general the dungeons are fun and people seem to like them. Good work!

[Genesis]

Updated thread to include requests for feedback on Halls of Oblivion.

[Bendersmom]

More comments:
1. Can the kings get a chance in the 200-220 for epics to drop?
2. Please make the kings drop things that are good and not hermes. Just lisent, crates, jewelry, gear and jewel chests.
3. Please make some, not all, of the minions drop items and not just the few valor points that drop. Items like gems 2-3, good chems, lisent HG, powders. Make it worth killing the minnions.
4. Exalted sandals have no permanent stat, just a minor substat.
5. Soul crystal doesn't work in dungeons.
6. The steps up to the king are really buggy and some people get stuck in them.
7. The sub bosses should drop something worthwhile and every time they die. Right now most of the time they drop nothing or on occasion some chem.

Edited by Bendersmom, 01 July 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[PigGoesQuack]

I personally think the hall of oblivion will catch peoples attention for now, but not for so long, reason being it so famous as of now, is simply because it's to easy and the points/rewards are easy as well.

I believe a way to keep GA dungeons more interesting would to have multiple types, so ones in eldeon, luna, and orlo and so forth, but each one increased in difficulty and along with that better rewards, not make the rewards to simple as they are now, but still have that chance, and always have that basic reward such as valor/honor points

Add puzzles or quizzes, that always change, something besides the generic run thru, AOE, kill boss, repeat

To be honest, I don't think people do these because they are fun, if anything it seems like people take it as a burden to get simple points

Edited by PigGoesQuack, 01 July 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[Bendersmom]

A lot of us are doing the dungeons and Crystal Defenders because they are fun. Something new to do too. The devs do plan on more PVP arenas and more dungeons, from what they have been posting. There is a new dungeon in development for Luna too. And there is a battlemaster in Xita so I am hoping that is for upcoming PVP maps. As long as they keep adding content it will be more fun. People will have their favorites to do but now at least there are things to do for all levels and a mix of PVP and PVM stuff.

I would suggest that after awhile maybe then could introduce new items and drops to the various arenas to keep people interested.

I would also suggest that for the new Ob Temple dungeon they put a sentry or some obstacle between areas that don't have kings so you have to kill it to move on instead of being able to run through the room. Also, if the minnions drop worthwhile items people would want to farm them more instead of running through the maps.

[Swan1990]

was playing dungeon today and for sum reason could not kill the guardian i stood there for ages trying to kill it.. also ppl have been getting bugged when they die entering a portal as well as other times where they have no respawn box.

[dongkua]

its good that we will constantly be having new contents coming keeps the remaining players occupied long enough to actually continue playing. however as mentioned above, the 2nd guardian just wont die. its hp regenerated 3 times before it finally gave up harassing us and open the portal to the 3rd part of the game. this is super annoying + boring and being a cleric, healing other group members consumed so much mp I had to use 10 blue pots . not to mention the rebuffings and resurrections because everyone had to stay in the middle so long to kill it . please fix this ASAP

[Phish]

Before yesterdays update, the Halls of Oblivion instance was ok, but too easy and I found it got boring because of this. Yesterdays update did make it harder so you can't fly through it, and I think the difficulty is fine, but personally I love a challenge. So without hurting the more common player I don't want to make the current raid more difficult, however I suggest adding a hard mode along with the current instance.


What I suggest for hard mode:

To increase difficulty:

• Increase HP of bosses by 15% and regular enemies by 5%
• Add a time limit to complete the instance by, if you don't defeat the final boss in the accommodated time, the party will be transported out. It can work similar to the current Crystal Defenders. Initially you have 15 minutes at the start, each boss you defeat grants you 5 more minutes in the Raid.
• Disable HP food, MP food (keep potions,buff potions jellybeans), might as well disable jelly stew as well.

To increase reward:

• Double the rate at which valor points drop from enemies
• Give the regular enemies a 10% chance to drop catalysts when defeated. Pink powder from Guard types, Purple powder from Leader types, Lisent HG from Captain types.
• Have all bosses drop something when defeated, right now it seems only the Mammy queen does (dropping hermes or low enthiric for example).
• Improve the final rewards at the end of completing the raid, and make the chance of receiving a reward 100% (right now you sometimes do not get a reward, only the 50 valor points at the end).

Current rewards that should be increased in chance to obtain for hard mode:

• Increase rate of obtaining Tutankhamen jewelery, and shield.
• Include a small chance (.25%?) to receive a random epic weapon as a reward.
• Remove Hermes as reward.
• Increase amount of Lisent U obtained. (for example increase the amount from (3) to (6))
• Add 15 more valor points upon completing hard mode.

Thats all I can think of for now..... Perhaps for hard mode the group size could be increased to 5, but that might contradict being hard mode in the first place.


Currently one of the Rewards is a Jewel Chest V (4). This is nearly a full grade 7 gem being added to the market whenever it is obtained and floods it even more than it needs to be. I suggest reducing the reward to only (1) Jewel Chest V, and (2) for hard mode.

Edited by Phish, 04 July 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[SIutMuffin]

Yeah the second boss is healing too much for low DPS parties(Ex. 2 Clerics, 1 knight, 1 mage) to kill it. Last dungeon I played we were at the second boss for 20+ mins and it kept going back to full hp so we gave up because it got boring and pointless.