294 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

Apparently people are reporting bots and "bots". As a player you won't always know if the person that you are reporting is a true bot or not, but if it is, there are things you can do to help ensure that it actually gets caught when you report it.... through the ticket system located here:
https://support.warpportal.com/

Firstly : NEVER LET A BOTTER KNOW THAT YOU ARE REPORTING THEM.

All this does is warn that you're reporting them and that the GMs are likely to check on them. This means that they may very well turn their bot off. So the GMs will check on the guy and say "Welp, he's not botting". Leaving the player to resume their unscrupulous behaviour another day.

Don't

• PM them
• Accuse them of botting in global chat (this is harassment and can potentially back-fire.)
• draw attention to it on the forums.

Do:

• Give the GMs are much information as possible, timezone, active times you've seen this person, the map. (using the /where info)
• Send in a screenshot of the character in question showing it's name clearly.
• If it teleports on sight, try right clicking to pull up the invite menu, you can screenshot that.
• Try to screenshot any KS / mobbing behaviour, again the more information, the better.
• Bookmark this page. http://forums.warppo...mMemberID=15309 and use it.
• Learn the tell-tale signs of bot AI
• Report even if you can't catch a screenshot. Describing the bot+headgear and mapname might work.

Always keep in mind that this person might just have the same play times as you. They may enjoy wing levelling because it's effective (I know I do) - or they may just be a jerk that is trying to fool you into wasting time reporting them because you accused them of being a bot (lots of people do this). The thing to remember is that the more warning you give REAL bots, the less likely they are to be caught.

Guilds don't bot. People bot! If you're in a guild, watch for map changes and unresponsiveness. Watch tax points.

Courtesy of Wiggles :

Tell-tale signs;
Bot AI is similar to homunculus AI, where it has 3 states - idle, chase, attack.
By default, the AI is set to walk to random locations on the map set by the player, this is the idle state. When a monster is encountered, it checks if that monster is on its attack or flee list, and that the monster is not attacking another player. If it is ok, then it enters the chasing state. Then the AI checks the distance between the player and the monster, if the distance is less than the attack range set in the AI, then the bot enters the attacking state. Once the monster is dead, it returns back to the idle state.

• Look for changes in states. - Bots have quick, sharp, instant reactions - whereas players are a bit slower with smoother movement patterns.
• Sometimes you will see a player walking in a direction, and then double-back through the path they just travelled - this is when the bot reaches its destination, and a new one is set. Obviously a player would rarely walk a direction they just came, as they know there's nothing there to kill.
• If a bot is in the chasing state, running after a monster, but then something happens to break it (someone attacks the monster, the bot is attacked by an aggressive monster) you will see an instant reaction from the bot - eg; if you are clicking on a monster on the far right of your screen, and then change your mind about it, you would have to move your mouse to change direction, but a bots reaction is instantaneous.
• Bots classify healing as damage - If you see a suspected bot walking at a monster, heal it before he gets there - if you see the instantaneous reaction, you know something is up. (Also works with any non-damage skill)
• Heal and buff them - Usually most players will give you a reaction for helping them out, a simple thanks or an emote. Bots will usually not react. This is an effective method for enforcing rule #1 - never let a bot know that you are on to them.
• In the event that they do react - buff them again. Some bots are set to react when getting buffed to avoid suspicion. However, 99% of them will repeatedly thank you for buffing them, giving themselves away.
• Look at how fast they loot and what they loot. Bots usually will loot a lot faster than players - some of the gold farmer bots pick it up before it touches the ground. Also look at patterns in their loot. If they are consistently leaving the same items on the ground then this is another sign they are following their AI. Players often accidentally pick up junk items, and have to drop them.
• If you are really really keen - observe their habits in selling/storing - often bots walk back to town to sell, rather than using a butterfly wing. When bots interact with NPC's, by default they stand directly next to them - another sign.

Edited by Xellie, 07 July 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[AsurABl00d]

+1 Nice guide

[Inubashiri]

Thank you Xellie, should have made this myself a long time ago....

[CeruleanGamer]

Also need a link to Warpportal support because a lot of people have no idea where to go and this guide would be complete.

[Xellie]

on it

[WaterBaron]

Forgot to add at what times is it even effective to make a report. Considering a lot of bots don't stay in one place for long, it'd be nice to know if making a report in the evening is a waste of time because they won't check till tomorrow afternoon.

[Valkayre]

This must be pinned. Thx~

[Agahim]

now if only the ticket system would work properly we could actually get rid of bots "effectivley".
nevertheless nice guide. vote for sticky.

Edited by Agahim, 06 July 2012 - 01:32 AM.

[Wiggles]

With a high degree of certainty, I can say that I have probably reported the most bots in the existence of iRO.

I'll add some tips to yours;

Do

• Bookmark this page. http://forums.warppo...mMemberID=15309 and use it.
• Learn the tell-tale signs of bot AI

Don't

• Worry if you don't have screenshots - they often ignore them anyway - just a name is all that is necessary.

Unsure if you would put this in the Do or Don't, but every so often you get bots that you just cannot get their name because they teleport too fast. It is possible to use packet loggers to get their name. Not sure how "legit" this method is, but seeing what your own client is telling you is pretty harmless in my opinion.

Tell-tale signs;
Bot AI is similar to homunculus AI, where it has 3 states - idle, chase, attack.
By default, the AI is set to walk to random locations on the map set by the player, this is the idle state. When a monster is encountered, it checks if that monster is on its attack or flee list, and that the monster is not attacking another player. If it is ok, then it enters the chasing state. Then the AI checks the distance between the player and the monster, if the distance is less than the attack range set in the AI, then the bot enters the attacking state. Once the monster is dead, it returns back to the idle state.

• Look for changes in states. - Bots have quick, sharp, instant reactions - whereas players are a bit slower with smoother movement patterns.
• Sometimes you will see a player walking in a direction, and then double-back through the path they just travelled - this is when the bot reaches its destination, and a new one is set. Obviously a player would rarely walk a direction they just came, as they know there's nothing there to kill.
• If a bot is in the chasing state, running after a monster, but then something happens to break it (someone attacks the monster, the bot is attacked by an aggressive monster) you will see an instant reaction from the bot - eg; if you are clicking on a monster on the far right of your screen, and then change your mind about it, you would have to move your mouse to change direction, but a bots reaction is instantaneous.
• Bots classify healing as damage - If you see a suspected bot walking at a monster, heal it before he gets there - if you see the instantaneous reaction, you know something is up. (Also works with any non-damage skill)
• Heal and buff them - Usually most players will give you a reaction for helping them out, a simple thanks or an emote. Bots will usually not react. This is an effective method for enforcing rule #1 - never let a bot know that you are on to them.
• In the event that they do react - buff them again. Some bots are set to react when getting buffed to avoid suspicion. However, 99% of them will repeatedly thank you for buffing them, giving themselves away.
• Look at how fast they loot and what they loot. Bots usually will loot a lot faster than players - some of the gold farmer bots pick it up before it touches the ground. Also look at patterns in their loot. If they are consistently leaving the same items on the ground then this is another sign they are following their AI. Players often accidentally pick up junk items, and have to drop them.
• If you are really really keen - observe their habits in selling/storing - often bots walk back to town to sell, rather than using a butterfly wing. When bots interact with NPC's, by default they stand directly next to them - another sign.

I'm sure there's more, but my partner is yelling at me for making such a long post. Saying "let that game die already, I don't know why you still read the forums"

[Inubashiri]

Very nice, kudos wiggles, also you can in place of a screenie get the top head gear, class, and map and possibly a date time, this too would be enough.

[jcrocs]

So, does this mean i could use my priest to hunt bots?

[CeruleanGamer]

Awesome post Wiggles.

[Doddler]

Most players will react to indirect interactions. Like if you follow them around for a sec and do emotes, a normal player almost always has some kind of reaction, even if it's just to do a /? or just stopping for a sec. If I suspect a player of being a bot, I follow them for a sec doing an emote (like heart or spin or whatever). After a bit if they don't react, I cast a skill on them (or if I don't have that option, I take a single hit on their monster and step away), and wait for a reaction. A botter has a full log of text chat, and talking is generally a give away that their being investigated (and may log out before a GM can check), but there's plenty of ways to interact without either being rude to them if it is a real player or giving away the game if they are a bot.

It's worth mentioning that it's fairly common for you to encounter a player that may initially appear to be a bot but is in fact, not a bot. If you want to check, it's probably best that you do so in a way that is non invasive, because you come off as quite a dick if you do something like ks and it turns out to be a real player.

[Inubashiri]

Most players will react to indirect interactions. Like if you follow them around for a sec and do emotes, a normal player almost always has some kind of reaction, even if it's just to do a /? or just stopping for a sec. If I suspect a player of being a bot, I follow them for a sec doing an emote (like heart or spin or whatever). After a bit if they don't react, I cast a skill on them (or if I don't have that option, I take a single hit on their monster and step away), and wait for a reaction. A botter has a full log of text chat, and talking is generally a give away that their being investigated (and may log out before a GM can check), but there's plenty of ways to interact without either being rude to them if it is a real player or giving away the game if they are a bot.

It's worth mentioning that it's fairly common for you to encounter a player that may initially appear to be a bot but is in fact, not a bot. If you want to check, it's probably best that you do so in a way that is non invasive, because you come off as quite a dick if you do something like ks and it turns out to be a real player.

I wanted to stack on top of this by saying this:

Most bot programs including the popular ones have logging and alarms, a PM will set off an alarm typically and depending on their paranoia and config probably disconnect it but other wise the user of the bot will know. Any and all commuication data can and is interpreted and seen on a log console, this includes unknown packets which typically also trip alarms. Most bot programs are nothing but emulators and use none of the files our clients use, it basically walks like a duck quacks like a duck so the server sees it as a duck...a lame duck imho. Until kRO fixes this in some way with a hardened client and hardened commications it will continue to be a problem only solvable by using the staff and automating their processes of banning and kicking, which relies on a vigilant community also helping by reporting.

But in reality we all depend on ragial/ropd which is run by sanctioned bots from the community...oh what a web we weave.

[Humbelum]

Just a sugesstion how it worked on euRO(with Burda, before milking-Grav-Europe came):

There was a Novice called "gm-bot". You could easily pm botname+map to gm-bot and got a timestamp if you reported immediatly. All reports were saved in a logfile. Just that easy.

There is no time investment for botters, why should I spend my time for reporting them?

Offtopic: on euRO you could also pm gm-en for english support, gm-it(italy), gm-tk(turkish), gm-fr(french), gm-de(german)... that was just like heaven

[zantanzuken]

i'd lke to say... as of right now theres probably upwards of 1000 bots in classic...

and its really not hard to tell who they are right now, considering theyre walking in huge human centipede lines.

i just ran into one earlier that had a pathing error and was trying to get at a pupa behind a tree. soon as i smacked the pupa it wandered off.

[Inubashiri]

i'd lke to say... as of right now theres probably upwards of 1000 bots in classic...

and its really not hard to tell who they are right now, considering theyre walking in huge human centipede lines.

i just ran into one earlier that had a pathing error and was trying to get at a pupa behind a tree. soon as i smacked the pupa it wandered off.

Report it.

[Kalandros]

The smart ones bot while they're available to answer any suspicion though. They're the ones that are gonna "bot to 99" with no trouble.

[Naida]

I hate bots just as much as the next person, but the idea that each individual carries a vague and immeasurable responsibility to the solution is overwhelming and off-putting to me. What is a job for the community looks more like a job for the individual. If the community were a little more united on the bot problem, I think then more people would get involved. I'd like to propose a way to perhaps give a less vague range to the responsibilities each person has.

I can report bots as I see them, but I personally would feel more accomplished if I saw others were doing the same. What if people could delegate themselves to focus on certain maps? What if we made an organized attempt to keep track of the progress by making note of not only what we've accomplished, but others as well?

If the concern is "you can't let the bots know", why? How will this kind of organized effort grant them ANY place and time to bot without fear of getting banned? Is there a button to press that will take them into Ultra Botting mode? I think it would give people involved some reassurance knowing that they are part of a group effort, and that imo is rewarding enough. If we can't solve this bot problem united as a community, I don't know what else we CAN do.

Edited by Naida, 13 July 2012 - 01:09 PM.

[zantanzuken]

in reality i believe there needs to be some sort of 3rd party blocking software... it wouldnt be too hard to create, but would block MOST of the attempts.. most bot programs are basically command prompts that access the server and issue commands to the character...

so if you make the game only accessible through the launcher, and nothing else...?

[Kalandros]

Thats the thing, its not possible for them to do that.
You think Blizzard programmers - their entire team - can prevent bots and 3rd party programs? (WoW, D2, D3) Nope, they are effective at detecting and banning them however due to sheer number of their GM staff.

So now good luck with anything of the sort happening on iRO with the few people they have available.

Edited by Kalandros, 13 July 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[Wiggles]

You think Blizzard programmers - their entire team - can prevent bots and 3rd party programs? (WoW, D2, D3) Nope, they are effective at detecting and banning them however due to sheer number of their GM staff.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

Other MMOs use data gathering methods based on set rules to rank players on a list of most/least likely to be botting. They then investigate the players from the top of the list heading down.

This could be implemented server-side on Ragnarok - but kRO will never do it as they don't see bots as a problem.

Edited by Wiggles, 13 July 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Sorry, you are incorrect.

Other MMOs use data gathering methods based on set rules to rank players on a list of most/least likely to be botting. They then investigate the players from the top of the list heading down.

This could be implemented server-side on Ragnarok - but kRO will never do it as they don't see bots as a problem.

They actually see bots are $$$ because they happen to be VIPs too if they are level bots or cash shop users.

[FatherBob]

Just a sugesstion how it worked on euRO(with Burda, before milking-Grav-Europe came):

There was a Novice called "gm-bot". You could easily pm botname+map to gm-bot and got a timestamp if you reported immediatly. All reports were saved in a logfile. Just that easy.

There is no time investment for botters, why should I spend my time for reporting them?

Offtopic: on euRO you could also pm gm-en for english support, gm-it(italy), gm-tk(turkish), gm-fr(french), gm-de(german)... that was just like heaven

This is brilliant. Heim, Oda, we need this.

[Xellie]

wasn't it just a bot that relayed the PMs to an IRC chat? If I recall correctly?