46 replies to this topic

[Smed]

I loathe games that are "Pay to Win" and will not continue to play any that go this route. It creates a world of imbalance, where the rich will always prevail - not because of skill but because of the size of their wallet and their readiness to spend money on things that make their characters more powerful than characters who do not spend real life money on such things. Basically, to me, games that are P2W are adding to a world already filled with social and economic bias. "Oh, you're poor? Shoo stupid!"

I like it much better when a F2P game's cash shop contains nothing but "fluff" items. It is these games that I end up spending money on.

Edited by Smed, 19 July 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[WorldBosh]

I loathe games that are "Pay to Win" and will not continue to play any that go this route. It creates a world of imbalance, where the rich will always prevail - not because of skill but because of the size of their wallet and their readiness to spend money on things that make their characters more powerful than characters who do not spend real life money on such things. Basically, to me, games that are P2W are adding to a world already filled with social and economic bias. "Oh, you're poor? Shoo stupid!"

I like it much better when a F2P game's cash shop contains nothing but "fluff" items. It is these games that I end up spending money on.

Fluff items tend to make for a great game in my opinion. PWI in 2008/9 was a good example of a perfect MMORPG, until they went P2W. LoL is also another great example.

[HikaruNajumi]

Exactly I have no problem with Fluff items. I love those. Fluff, cosmetic only, things like that.

[PoopsMcgee]

Find better things to spend your money on. You never know, you might actually need it someday, but too bad you had to spend your cash on the Item Mall :{

[primus]

i wouldn't worry about Gravity on this game so much since they do not own the game and only operate it .

and personally I wouldn't think any Gaming company today as bad as the market is would dare follow Gravity plan on running games ,so I think we are little more safer on this one

[WorldBosh]

i wouldn't worry about Gravity on this game so much since they do not own the game and only operate it .

and personally I wouldn't think any Gaming company today as bad as the market is would dare follow Gravity plan on running games ,so I think we are little more safer on this one

If only this were true.

[LadyRaven]

I don't mind fluff at all; fluff makes great b-day gifts.

However, this game didn't strike me as the fluffy type. I could be wrong, though.

[WorldBosh]

I don't mind fluff at all; fluff makes great b-day gifts.

However, this game didn't strike me as the fluffy type. I could be wrong, though.

PWI didn't strike its players as a P2W, but look at where its at .

[LadyRaven]

PWI didn't strike its players as a P2W, but look at where its at .

Oh, no, no, no, sweetie, I beta-tested PW back before it came to the states, it had the potential for P2W all over it then. I then played PWI a few years later, and watched it become what it is, hence I don't play it anymore. Seriously, one can go bankrupt IRL playing that game....and that's just from buying charms and fluff.

Either way, I'm not a PvP'er so, I don't get all caught up in the P2W stuff anyway.

[WorldBosh]

Oh, no, no, no, sweetie, I beta-tested PW back before it came to the states, it had the potential for P2W all over it then. I then played PWI a few years later, and watched it become what it is, hence I don't play it anymore. Seriously, one can go bankrupt IRL playing that game....and that's just from buying charms and fluff.

Either way, I'm not a PvP'er so, I don't get all caught up in the P2W stuff anyway.

Charms were cheap and very easy to farm thanks to gold prices back then. No one had gear refined past 5 and +8 refines were considered insane. PWI began its disgusting downward hurdle when they released the Anniversary Packs which cost a dollar and had a chance to give you items that took a week or so to farm. Because of packs, gold prices quadrupled, but even that was manageable. The REAL fked up business was when they released rank gears that surpassed all currently farmable gear and could ONLY be obtained from the CS and this happened 3 years AFTER it went OB. What made things worse was that ALL casters were unable to farm ANYTHING endgame, since it was all about APS for maximum profit. IF Maestia follows this path after 3-4 years I, personally, wouldn't be mad at all since they were able to provide a decent entertainment for a LONG time.

[bigdaddymoo]

Ok I was a little harsh before sorry for that but I am tired of people complaining about pay to win , when its the pay to win players that keep a game going. Fluff is fine as well but it will only go so far. Ok P2W perfect example ZedX can back me on this RoM about 30% of the population payed to win on sales events maybe an additional 20% kicked in a few dollars. RoM is still very active and still growing. Now if this is a pay to win game and you dont want to pay to win thats your choice. If they allow stuff to be sold on market bought from cash shop players alot of the people who already left the game before it started will stay. Bottom line no pure fluff game has lasted and never will. Lets look at it this way most of the people who will pay for a fluff game ... well wont and most of the people who complain about a pay to win game dont even put a dollar into it so really they should just stop their complaining and enjoy the game to the best that they are able and let those of us who actually spend money on a game do it so they can play for free. ZedX dont know if you remember me but I was Smexyguy from kalanes guild. Well anyway why dont we all just wait and see what the game holds and further this discussion after it gets done with OBT. Also just read about the gear in pwi which yes i also played till they screwed it up, but as for gear from what i have seen so far +5 and +0 gear are not that far a part in this game

Edited by bigdaddymoo, 19 July 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[daveisdavis]

Ok I was a little harsh before sorry for that but I am tired of people complaining about pay to win , when its the pay to win players that keep a game going. Fluff is fine as well but it will only go so far. Ok P2W perfect example ZedX can back me on this RoM about 30% of the population payed to win on sales events maybe an additional 20% kicked in a few dollars. RoM is still very active and still growing. Now if this is a pay to win game and you dont want to pay to win thats your choice. If they allow stuff to be sold on market bought from cash shop players alot of the people who already left the game before it started will stay. Bottom line no pure fluff game has lasted and never will. Lets look at it this way most of the people who will pay for a fluff game ... well wont and most of the people who complain about a pay to win game dont even put a dollar into it so really they should just stop their complaining and enjoy the game to the best that they are able and let those of us who actually spend money on a game do it so they can play for free. ZedX dont know if you remember me but I was Smexyguy from kalanes guild. Well anyway why dont we all just wait and see what the game holds and further this discussion after it gets done with OBT. Also just read about the gear in pwi which yes i also played till they screwed it up, but as for gear from what i have seen so far +5 and +0 gear are not that far a part in this game

What the hell are you talking about
Someone has already mentioned a game that uses pure fluff
League of Legends
Well yeah it's probably one of the most popular games in the world right now, but it shows that if a game is good enough it won't need game breakingly overpowered items just to keep a profit.

[Smed]

, when its the pay to win players that keep a game going.

I do think that you should experience a wider variety of mmo games before you claim such non-sense. It's like saying a game will fail just because it doesn't have PvP. There are plenty of non-PvP mmos that are doing just fine. There are plenty of PvP mmos that are doing just fine. There are plenty of mixed mmos doing just fine. Just because something doesn't suit one person, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world will be equally unsuited. F2P games with just Fluff do just fine, as long as there are enough in-game features to keep people interested.

I think it is more that some people fear that they wouldn't be able to compete unless they're able to pay to win, so they spout non-sense that makes their statements seem plausible.

Edited by Smed, 19 July 2012 - 12:16 PM.

[ArcMage]

In many f2p games that relies heavily on PvP, you can see how heavily the item shops affect the balance between the buyers and the non-buyers.

As for me, I am not a hardcore gamer as I seem to have less and less time to spend on games.

I will enjoy running dungeons and PvE casually so it won't really worth buying much items in my personal case.

However, I support anyone else buying the items from the item shop as long as those items are not too ridiculously OPed (since they actually might discourage new people to join the game).

People who buy the cash items support the game and thus encourage the company to invest more time and effort into satisfying us.

Now what I've said above is all general logic but I just wanted to point out that as long as the game can balance out the CS users and the nots, I am sure the community will grow and we will all be able to enjoy the game much more.

[WorldBosh]

Ok I was a little harsh before sorry for that but I am tired of people complaining about pay to win , when its the pay to win players that keep a game going. Fluff is fine as well but it will only go so far. Ok P2W perfect example ZedX can back me on this RoM about 30% of the population payed to win on sales events maybe an additional 20% kicked in a few dollars. RoM is still very active and still growing. Now if this is a pay to win game and you dont want to pay to win thats your choice. If they allow stuff to be sold on market bought from cash shop players alot of the people who already left the game before it started will stay. Bottom line no pure fluff game has lasted and never will. Lets look at it this way most of the people who will pay for a fluff game ... well wont and most of the people who complain about a pay to win game dont even put a dollar into it so really they should just stop their complaining and enjoy the game to the best that they are able and let those of us who actually spend money on a game do it so they can play for free. ZedX dont know if you remember me but I was Smexyguy from kalanes guild. Well anyway why dont we all just wait and see what the game holds and further this discussion after it gets done with OBT. Also just read about the gear in pwi which yes i also played till they screwed it up, but as for gear from what i have seen so far +5 and +0 gear are not that far a part in this game

Fluff games DO last. Think Maple Story. Think Mabinogi. Think LoL.

I do think that you should experience a wider variety of mmo games before you claim such non-sense. It's like saying a game will fail just because it doesn't have PvP. There are plenty of non-PvP mmos that are doing just fine. There are plenty of PvP mmos that are doing just fine. There are plenty of mixed mmos doing just fine. Just because something doesn't suit one person, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world will be equally unsuited. F2P games with just Fluff do just fine, as long as there are enough in-game features to keep people interested.

I think it is more that some people fear that they wouldn't be able to compete unless they're able to pay to win, so they spout non-sense that makes their statements seem plausible.

PvP is what keeps an F2P alive. That or an EXTREMELY RICH story mode coupled with epic PvE and a decent sized population. Mabinogi had an amazing story coupled with great PvE that relied on skill and reflexes, but even that game eventually added arenas, open PvP, etc.

Oh and P.S., RoM is a HORRIBLE example in ANY case. The game is so damn P2W that it makes games like PWI, Rohan, and Aika seem cheap.

[bigdaddymoo]

LOL notice how fast you all forgot to add you were going to not play this game when you found a new argument haha I told my friends before i ever typed that and fyi league of legends is backed by another game so learn your games a little better. And RoM is an excellent choice as I said P2W and still going strong also name a game that stand 100% by itself thats a fluff game ???????????????????? yeah thats what i thought

[100003169714924]

Please, not RoM...I failed to mention it earlier cuz it'll give true gamers nightmares (if they didn't already know of it).

[Fizzgig]

I don't plan to spend any money on this or any other game till Guild Wars 2 comes out.

Then I will be enjoying that.

[rekindledflame]

LOL notice how fast you all forgot to add you were going to not play this game when you found a new argument haha I told my friends before i ever typed that and fyi league of legends is backed by another game so learn your games a little better. And RoM is an excellent choice as I said P2W and still going strong also name a game that stand 100% by itself thats a fluff game ???????????????????? yeah thats what i thought

League of Legends is backed by what game exactly? Steve Feaks did an amazing job with both RO2 and LoL, both of which have been hugely popular and were free. Dota2 is also suppose to be f2p, with a shop that sells nothing but fluff. The popularity of these surely show that a game need not be P2W. Riot Games, estimated value is 250 mil, which is quite impressive for a company that wasn't really on the map 10 years ago. A lot of games could learn from their business model quite honestly.

Money should not be a factor in determining who is competitive or who isn't. As long as that is maintained I have no problem paying for fluff in the future to support the game and I think many would agree. There are plenty of things they can sell in shop that won't tilt the scales in favor of paying players, or would only have a small impact like auto loot scrolls, more inventory space etc.

[WorldBosh]

LOL notice how fast you all forgot to add you were going to not play this game when you found a new argument haha I told my friends before i ever typed that and fyi league of legends is backed by another game so learn your games a little better. And RoM is an excellent choice as I said P2W and still going strong also name a game that stand 100% by itself thats a fluff game ???????????????????? yeah thats what i thought

Either your blind, stupid, or both. I've mentioned a few and what is LoL backed by exactly? Thats like saying Nexon shouldn't put P2W items in its other games because it has MapleStory and its millions of players spending craptons on FLUFF. RoM is so P2W that its a joke. No one is questioning the game's quality, but the game itself is horrible in terms of CS balance.

[TexMarz]

Yes. There will always be things I'll want that won't be available anywhere else. P2W, not likely.

[eastCrew212]

Yes. I do it on iRO ill do it on Maestia. ;p