30 replies to this topic

[waela]

Hi ppl,i'm suggesting to power magic resistance(MR) and int up same like what happened to defence...
now after def powered up knights are tough,hard to kill them..... so what about doing the same to magic resistance and int?

u know that magic resistance and int now are sux not benefit its users at all. so let me 1st list uses of MR and int....MR shall :-
1- Reduces the chance to get stunned
2- Dec the damg of magic spells agianst you.
and ofc int shall :-
1- Inc damg of magic attacks
2- Inc chance to do stuns, besides int's exist uses.

So after all, i'm suggesting to add those abilities to magic resistace and int....so clerics \ mages are supposed to be hardly get stunned cos of their high magic resistance and maxed int.

[Phish]

Magic Defense is equally as useful as defense against classes with magic attacks. The only thing that should really be changed is to increase Opal 7's to 90 base defense from 60 to match po7's.


It shouldn't increase or decrease stun success; that is only going to truley benefit the magic classes.

[BrownBear]

Magic resistance currently works the same way as defense. The reason you think it is useless is because you can't get anywhere near the same amount of magic resistance as you can defense. But onto your suggestions...

I would think it would be interesting to see how the game would change if magic resistance reduced the chance to be stunned. In Irose, people thought this was true. It does not work like that in this current system, but I still think it would be something worth trying. We could perhaps test it on Pegasus, just to see if it is of any value to gameplay.
Magic resistance currently decreases the damage of magic attack against you, so that isn't really a suggestion. Maybe you want it to work better in that regards, but I don't think that is necessary.

Int should only increase the damage of magic attack skills if strength is allowed to increase the damage of physical melee attack skills and dex is allowed to increase the damage of physical ranged attacked skills. Otherwise, this should not happen. It should definitely not affect normal attacks at all.
Int should not increase the chance to land a stun. The way stuns work now is perfectly fine. Doing this would force them to rebalance stuns even more than they might already have to.

Edited by BrownBear, 23 September 2010 - 06:07 AM.

[Span]

Oh my god i should get luminous gears !

[Wirts]

1- Inc damg of magic attacks

I thought it already did this as well.

Wasn't this where the confusion was coming from back with the big T7 / D7 debate for mages was going around?

It seemed that D7 gave you better attack power - but in terms of actual damage output T7 would show more. This was of course back when the values on gems were much different.

I could be off base here - but that's what I thought I remembered.

[BrownBear]

I thought it already did this as well.

Wasn't this where the confusion was coming from back with the big T7 / D7 debate for mages was going around?

It seemed that D7 gave you better attack power - but in terms of actual damage output T7 would show more. This was of course back when the values on gems were much different.

I could be off base here - but that's what I thought I remembered.

All of that happened before Orlo. Since the Orlo updates, Int no longer increases magic damage.

[Wirts]

ok, gotcha
I wish I had the time to do some of the testing when orlo came out but I was busy at that point and i'm sure missed a few little things like this.

one other suggestion you might add while we are talking about int...
What about the idea of a mana shield skill. Where when cast the spell would block half of all incoming damage at the cost of one mana point per point of damage obsorbed?

This might give life to the max mp gems and provide some survivability if given to the cleric class.

[BrownBear]

ok, gotcha
I wish I had the time to do some of the testing when orlo came out but I was busy at that point and i'm sure missed a few little things like this.

one other suggestion you might add while we are talking about int...
What about the idea of a mana shield skill. Where when cast the spell would block half of all incoming damage at the cost of one mana point per point of damage obsorbed?

This might give life to the max mp gems and provide some survivability if given to the cleric class.

Sounds like a skill for a tank and not a healer. I think a skill like this would work wonders for melee knights. Obviously us crossbow guys shouldn't be able to use it. Would need some balancing of the classes offensive abilities if such a skill were implemented though.

It might be a good third job skill if we ever get there (naive, I know) for the defensive side of a knight.

I don't understand why everyone is complaining about cleric survivability so much nowadays. They have good heals and with all the stuns being pulled back (rightfully so), it is harder to take out a competent cleric now. Not long ago everyone complained about how hard it was to kill them. Not much has changed since then, aside from having less stuns.

[Wirts]

I can't say because I haven't really been on my clerics in a while - really since Draconis came out.

it might be easier to get away now that stuns and sleeps are toned down.

I guess my thought process was that it would eat away at your mana points pretty quick and then you wouldn't be able to heal yourself or your party - thus making it a tactical decision of when to use it and when not to. Maybe it could be added to both knights and clerics, but clerics take 3/4 damage where knights take 1/2. This could be tested and adjusted but would keep clerics from trying to take the tanking role.

[waela]

Lets see how this benefits clerics mages and knight much...
1st clerics: clerics now (Str or even dex fully geared) can't kill a sheep or even FS any1 at wars.....they don't get 2nd job party heal nor proper def to hold 2 fully buffed attackers nor a uses of their high MR so by that new update to dragon skin (btw its a gr8 1) we have a chance but what 4-5k def do with a bourg+champ for instance? u'll take 1 stun say bye bye........I don't like clerics to hold on at bases and do only buffs even if now IM buffs did the job :s
so with that 20% def and powering up MR it could gives them a chance to hold attackers.....

2nd mages: mages are supposed to be king of magic attacks and stuns but i took all stuns and its int doesn't help it increasing magic att (so they choosed pure att stats d7 and lava set)....so by powering up int and MR they'll hace a chance to do more damg a get a chance to kill (specially for ice tree).

3rd knights: powering up MR will give them more chance to hold all attackers

after all i think that this MR powering up will help clerics more....GMS powered up str and dex (def and dodge) so its time to make the same to int

[youichi]

Does physical defense or magic resistance affects the normal attack of clerics?

[Phish]

Lets see how this benefits clerics mages and knight much...
1st clerics: clerics now (Str or even dex fully geared) can't kill a sheep or even FS any1 at wars.....they don't get 2nd job party heal nor proper def to hold 2 fully buffed attackers nor a uses of their high MR so by that new update to dragon skin (btw its a gr8 1) we have a chance but what 4-5k def do with a bourg+champ for instance? u'll take 1 stun say bye bye........I don't like clerics to hold on at bases and do only buffs even if now IM buffs did the job :s
so with that 20% def and powering up MR it could gives them a chance to hold attackers.....

The 20% defense gain for clerics helped them surive alot. Giving them more defensive abilities will likely cause imbalance. They already have the highest magic defense by far, it's not really necessary to raise it more. Offensively yeah they are very weak.

2nd mages: mages are supposed to be king of magic attacks and stuns but i took all stuns and its int doesn't help it increasing magic att (so they choosed pure att stats d7 and lava set)....so by powering up int and MR they'll hace a chance to do more damg a get a chance to kill (specially for ice tree).

If intelligence is to increase the power of magic skills does that mean strength should increase the power of physical skills? It doesn't seem necessary and people choose diamonds over the base stat gems because the base stat gems themselves are obsolete; I do think int should raise magic defense more than it should now (same goes for str and defense)

3rd knights: powering up MR will give them more chance to hold all attackers

Maybe. I do think their defense/m defense self buff should be increased though so they atleast have 1 buff that is better than a buff pot's.

after all i think that this MR powering up will help clerics more....GMS powered up str and dex (def and dodge) so its time to make the same to int

Str sucks for defense. 1 str gives you .33 defense which is absolutely insignificant. 1 int yields .67 magic defense which is still too low.

Does physical defense or magic resistance affects the normal attack of clerics?

All cleric attacks are magic including melee. Mage melee and all mage attacks are magic except staff stun and I beleive Fierce cudgleing.

[waela]

The 20% defense gain for clerics helped them surive alot. Giving them more defensive abilities will likely cause imbalance. They already have the highest magic defense by far, it's not really necessary to raise it more. Offensively yeah they are very weak.




If intelligence is to increase the power of magic skills does that mean strength should increase the power of physical skills? It doesn't seem necessary and people choose diamonds over the base stat gems because the base stat gems themselves are obsolete; I do think int should raise magic defense more than it should now (same goes for str and defense)



Maybe. I do think their defense/m defense self buff should be increased though so they atleast have 1 buff that is better than a buff pot's.




Str sucks for defense. 1 str gives you .33 defense which is absolutely insignificant. 1 int yields .67 magic defense which is still too low.




All cleric attacks are magic including melee. Mage melee and all mage attacks are magic except staff stun and I beleive Fierce cudgleing.

as u said clerics are weak..all i want is to let them benefit from ther high MR so they can hold
i don't want to make them unstunnable or unnti magic atts all i want or what i suggest is to reduce the CHANCE of stuns and reduce damg of magic atts....

and u know the problem is that there is no Magic Att which got inc by inc int by this way str enhance att(phy one) and int enhance magic att...thats the real balance

[Span]

Well i though of a possible skill buff for them ... ( yea this is from maple )




Well they can tank better with this , when their MP reaches zero the HP starts decreasing making them unable to heal too , this would be the use of having high MP

Edited by Span, 25 September 2010 - 05:41 AM.

[Phish]

as u said clerics are weak..all i want is to let them benefit from ther high MR so they can hold
i don't want to make them unstunnable or unnti magic atts all i want or what i suggest is to reduce the CHANCE of stuns and reduce damg of magic atts....

and u know the problem is that there is no Magic Att which got inc by inc int by this way str enhance att(phy one) and int enhance magic att...thats the real balance

I said clerics are weak offensively not defensively. And I don't understand what the last sentence in your post means...

[Phish]

I said clerics are weak offensively not defensively. And I don't understand what the last sentence in your post means...

Well i though of a possible skill buff for them ... ( yea this is from maple )




Well they can tank better with this , when their MP reaches zero the HP starts decreasing making them unable to heal too , this would be the use of having high MP

This might be interesting, it would have to have a short duration maybe 15 seconds with a longer cooldown though (maybe 25).

[waela]

I said clerics are weak offensively not defensively. And I don't understand what the last sentence in your post means...

i mean that the problem is that there is magic attack ( then we got magic att and phy att ) so str improve phy att and int improve mag att....that will force mages to pick t7s....
also this will reduce magic atts of phyiscal chars (like soul wreck and combat cry etc) also this will dec the damg of phyic skills of magical char (like staff stun)...this is the real balance.

[Phish]

I just want to emphasize that that Magic defense is far from useless. It is actually better than defense; that is it scales faster. 3k magic defense reduces magic attacks better than 3k defense reduces physical.



This is yet another reason why clerics have such terrible offense....

[BrownBear]

Don't be reasonable Adam, it isn't allowed.

[AlisiaMT]

Lets view it this way.
Str ups:

• HP
• Weight
• AP
• Def

Int ups:

• MP
• MDef
• Buff Effectiveness

As you can see above, the str adds more HP than int adds to MP by a lot, making str better in that aspect. MDef may be statistically better but 2/8 classes use magic based attacks, once again making str better.

Int does need to be looked at. In my opinion, it should have some stuff added to it to make it closer to its str counterpart.

• The ratio of MP for Int should be the same as HP for Str
• The ratio of magic ap should be 1/3 that of physical ap for str (add another passive to mages skill tree to even it out.)
• MDef should have the same ratio of def towards [All] skills as Def does towards physical attacks
• Weight should remain specific to str build
• Buffs Effectiveness

Mind you, I am not a professional in builds or what stat does what down to the thousandth. I am just a player that has noticed this and agrees that mdef isn't good for anything and needs something done with it. Any thoughts? I don't know if this will make int too OP.

[Phish]

Err.

Int adds more mp than Str does HP.



Int adds 4 mp, Str adds 2 HP


I'm assuming the second screenshot is of a sodliers stats in which case you probably have taken HP passives.

Lets view it this way.

• The ratio of magic ap should be 1/3 that of physical ap for str (add another passive to mages skill tree to even it out.)

I don't understand what this means. Care to explain?


Stat builds are overrated anyway, as your base stats hardly influence your total stats overall because of how small the gain from them is and how slow everything scales.

I made some suggestions regarding things such as this in the Suggestion to Stats thread.

Edited by Phish, 09 February 2011 - 03:10 PM.

[AlisiaMT]

Err.

Int adds more mp than Str does HP.


Int adds 4 mp, Str adds 2 HP

It does? why is my hp way higher than my mp then if i only have 96 str and 400int? I have mp passives and a def passive. no HP passives.

I don't understand what this means. Care to explain?

I meant that if (all examples!!) a soldier has 100 str and a muse has 100 int then a soldier will get (lets go out of 100) 100P-AP (physical attack power) and a muse will get 33M-AP (magic attack power). Then a mage will have a passive to up the effectiveness of int so it will equal the effectiveness of str (the other 2/3).

This will mean a mage will strive more towards int and T7's than str and D7's for the full effect of skills. It also means that int will become more desirable for other classes to maximize the effectiveness of their skills.

Since a mage has a staff that you beat people with, it should remain physical but (if it isnt already) the cleric's wand should be made a magic attack weapon.

[Phish]

It does? why is my hp way higher than my mp then if i only have 96 str and 400int? I have mp passives and a def passive. no HP passives.


I meant that if (all examples!!) a soldier has 100 str and a muse has 100 int then a soldier will get (lets go out of 100) 100P-AP (physical attack power) and a muse will get 33M-AP (magic attack power). Then a mage will have a passive to up the effectiveness of int so it will equal the effectiveness of str (the other 2/3).

This will mean a mage will strive more towards int and T7's than str and D7's for the full effect of skills. It also means that int will become more desirable for other classes to maximize the effectiveness of their skills.

Since a mage has a staff that you beat people with, it should remain physical but (if it isnt already) the cleric's wand should be made a magic attack weapon.

Everyones hp is higher than your mp, it increases at a much higher rate as you level up; not because of strength.

Everyones physical ap = their magic ap. Only attacks can determine which type of damage it hits for. Pre orlo Int used to increase the damage on magic skills (which is similar to what you are suggestion).

[AlisiaMT]

*meh* they need to give clerics a better mp passive then... 5k is miniscule..

[DoubleRose]

oh come on. cleric has a 20% m-defense (giving them the highest m-def of any class) and defense passives plus a very good block rate and magic tool defense passive, and they can practically full heal instantly. They aren't bad offensively with their 170% ap passives, which is higher than almost every class.