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#1 Irtofu

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:37 AM

I see no reason why a effect should do more damage then a skills initial damage. They should really fix the damage on these skills. What I mean by damage dealing effects is like burn and poison, currently the burn skill is a big problem. Compared to the other damage dealing skills, such as poison which does 150-300damage/sec which last for up to 15 seconds for some classes, but damage varies depending on duration. Burn effect which for raider how ever does 500damage/sec and +initial damage which amounts to about 1-2k depending on which class the raider is versing. Mage's burn is 12 seconds and deals 400damage/sec, and initial damage is 1--4k depend on class and variables, buffs etc. Mages burn is strong, but one thing is that they cant tank really long, which means they wont be able to recast it many times. However raiders is a different story, they can tank also as well or even better then knights with their dodge and defense now and they can keep on recasting it with almost or no cooldown to wait for and at the same time tank most of the skills dealt to them. This also applies to scouts also with their poison effect which can re recasted over and over, in conclusion it is not good to put a damage dealing effect which can be recasted over and over on classes which can tank well.

Proposal:

1)lower success rate of effect
2)lower skill damage output to 250-275damage/sec For 275 damage a sec thats 275x8=2.2k+1-2k initial=3.2k-4.2k damage(burn raider) scouts poison 250 damage sec too, but lower skill duration, even with lower percentages the skills still deal way more then what normal classes deal to each other.
3)increase cooldown timer so skill cant be recasted over and over.
4)lower duration of burn effect to 2-3seconds

I do not mean to put all of these into effect to nerf the skill totally, but maybe mix and match to balance the burn effect a bit.

Edited by Irtofu, 25 September 2010 - 02:52 AM.

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#2 yamz

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:01 AM

Effect seems fine
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#3 Phish

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 07:42 AM

I'm not sure about changing the burn/poison effects but it is kind of crappy that a knight with huge defense/m def can still take a lot of damage from a character 100 levels lower if they have a 100% poison or burn skill.


However I thought of changing the useles protection buff for knights into a passive that reduces damage over time skills.


Each level it can reduce damage over time by 10%, resulting in 50% damage at max level (5). That is, if a burn normally does 500 damage/second it will do 250 damage/second with this passive maxed. The only problem is mace knights will struggle to get the skill points to use it while crossbow knights can get it with ease.
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#4 poopiehead

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:48 AM

i dont see any problems with burn/psn skills and i dont have any of them :unsure:

but i do agree with what phish said, they should have a lvl difference effect when calculating the damage of burn on a higher lvl opponent.
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#5 Irtofu

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:42 PM

i dont see any problems with burn/psn skills and i dont have any of them :unsure:

but i do agree with what phish said, they should have a lvl difference effect when calculating the damage of burn on a higher lvl opponent.


so currently, you are telling me its fine that a effect does more then a skill? resulting in a skill burn for example to deal minimum of 5k damage to any class? even knights? and the fact that it can be recasted over and over?
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#6 xHydra

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:49 PM

so currently, you are telling me its fine that a effect does more then a skill? resulting in a skill burn for example to deal minimum of 5k damage to any class? even knights? and the fact that it can be recasted over and over?

It is fine for raider as they do not have high attack power and most of their damage comes from these burn skills, which is perfectly fine for their class. While mage they need it as well as they don't have sleep anymore and their mute isn't 100%.

Knights should get a passive as phish said but not too much that raiders are completely useless vs knights like before orlo if you didn't have a defense down you would just hit 5s, thats why only raiders/mage(magic)/cleric(magic) could kill a knight.

Edited by xHydra, 25 September 2010 - 02:51 PM.

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#7 poopiehead

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:30 PM

so currently, you are telling me its fine that a effect does more then a skill? resulting in a skill burn for example to deal minimum of 5k damage to any class? even knights? and the fact that it can be recasted over and over?

yes. recasting burn/psn over and over isnt too much of a problem since they dont stack. and read what i said about burn/psn vs knights. the whole concept of burn/psn is that they do damage over time. so naturally, the dmg will add up to be more than the initial hit.
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#8 Irtofu

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:46 PM

yes. recasting burn/psn over and over isnt too much of a problem since they dont stack. and read what i said about burn/psn vs knights. the whole concept of burn/psn is that they do damage over time. so naturally, the dmg will add up to be more than the initial hit.


um recasting isnt a problem because they dont stack? um... no comment on that if they did stack they would do like what? 8k damage?lol....
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#9 Irtofu

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:49 PM

but yes, that suggestion phish made was a decent one, hope it gets added into the game, or something similar, but hopefully it doesnt take up too much sp...
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#10 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:38 PM

+1 to phish
-1 to whoever made the post

raiders and mages have been battling NERF threads ryt now and any more wont help
raiders have lower AP than other classes so they need burn/poison to compensate
mages have been nerfed in the recent updates so i hope they keep them as they are for now
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#11 Irtofu

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:05 PM

+1 to phish
-1 to whoever made the post

raiders and mages have been battling NERF threads ryt now and any more wont help
raiders have lower AP than other classes so they need burn/poison to compensate
mages have been nerfed in the recent updates so i hope they keep them as they are for now


have you actually tried pvping actually or are you just typing +1 and -1 to get your post count up? and tell me, how exactly have raiders been nerfed really? what changed they made I wouldnt called them nerfing, its more like fixing something that was broken. If you actually pvped or used a raider before, you would know previous the other patched, you could not even land one skill on a raider because they keep you chain sleep,stun locked.
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#12 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:31 PM

have you actually tried pvping actually or are you just typing +1 and -1 to get your post count up? and tell me, how exactly have raiders been nerfed really? what changed they made I wouldnt called them nerfing, its more like fixing something that was broken. If you actually pvped or used a raider before, you would know previous the other patched, you could not even land one skill on a raider because they keep you chain sleep,stun locked.



as you wish

1) raider stuns duration has been reduced to -1
2)mystic knife is totally nerfed making it a 45% sucess rate and sleep duration reduced to 4 secs
this makes it extremely unreliable as a skill and the sleep-poison combo fest is OVER
3)venom knife sucess rate reduced to 75%
4)also if you see the number of SPs needed to take both knives and burn ITS DIFFICULT to max out other skills(specially the ACC passives)
5)Raider skills are not high AP and most BURN skills are KATAR who have even lower AP so to compensate for it RAIDERS need the skills

AND
u see i have given a +1 to phish
which says a special skill for knights to tank such attacks
buffs knights to tank better is a better option than NERFING RAIDERS FURTHER

ALSO can u plz tell me what do you mean by
RAIDERS INCREASED DEFENCE
only DUALS get ACCESS to ONLY 1 def buff that lasts 30 secs (which means you will have a ZERO def buff after 30 secs) and DUALS can have access to only 1 BURN
go and see a raider skill tree before posting these threads

AND LEARN TO BE MORE POLITE
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#13 Irtofu

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 11:49 PM

as you wish

1) raider stuns duration has been reduced to -1
2)mystic knife is totally nerfed making it a 45% sucess rate and sleep duration reduced to 4 secs
this makes it extremely unreliable as a skill and the sleep-poison combo fest is OVER
3)venom knife sucess rate reduced to 75%
4)also if you see the number of SPs needed to take both knives and burn ITS DIFFICULT to max out other skills(specially the ACC passives)
5)Raider skills are not high AP and most BURN skills are KATAR who have even lower AP so to compensate for it RAIDERS need the skills

AND
u see i have given a +1 to phish
which says a special skill for knights to tank such attacks
buffs knights to tank better is a better option than NERFING RAIDERS FURTHER

ALSO can u plz tell me what do you mean by
RAIDERS INCREASED DEFENCE
only DUALS get ACCESS to ONLY 1 def buff that lasts 30 secs (which means you will have a ZERO def buff after 30 secs) and DUALS can have access to only 1 BURN
go and see a raider skill tree before posting these threads

AND LEARN TO BE MORE POLITE


lol... venom knife % reduced, not sure how thats a nerf,try go up to most of the pvp raiders tell me how many of them actually use venom knife, who would really use venom knife when u got a burn skill which you can cast over and over and do 500 damage/sec vs like 300 damage/sec for poison?.... so that address the number of sp used... and yes i know raiders ap is low, but honestly, dont u think like 5k damage minimum is a bit much? that why i suggest for them not to take it off completely but lower the damage done per second, to 275 damage a second which is still on average to most class a minimum of 3.2k damage and extends to 4.2k+ is that not reasonable? what other class does that much for 1 skill to another class? none that i really can think of.

and also, since you bolded that phrase, where did you see raiders increased defense? I do not see it.

Edited by Irtofu, 26 September 2010 - 11:53 PM.

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#14 poopiehead

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:21 PM

lol... venom knife % reduced, not sure how thats a nerf,try go up to most of the pvp raiders tell me how many of them actually use venom knife, who would really use venom knife when u got a burn skill which you can cast over and over and do 500 damage/sec vs like 300 damage/sec for poison?.... so that address the number of sp used... and yes i know raiders ap is low, but honestly, dont u think like 5k damage minimum is a bit much? that why i suggest for them not to take it off completely but lower the damage done per second, to 275 damage a second which is still on average to most class a minimum of 3.2k damage and extends to 4.2k+ is that not reasonable? what other class does that much for 1 skill to another class? none that i really can think of.

and also, since you bolded that phrase, where did you see raiders increased defense? I do not see it.

no
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#15 Silwok

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 01:09 PM

lol... venom knife % reduced, not sure how thats a nerf,try go up to most of the pvp raiders tell me how many of them actually use venom knife, who would really use venom knife when u got a burn skill which you can cast over and over and do 500 damage/sec vs like 300 damage/sec for poison?.... so that address the number of sp used... and yes i know raiders ap is low, but honestly, dont u think like 5k damage minimum is a bit much? that why i suggest for them not to take it off completely but lower the damage done per second, to 275 damage a second which is still on average to most class a minimum of 3.2k damage and extends to 4.2k+ is that not reasonable? what other class does that much for 1 skill to another class? none that i really can think of.

and also, since you bolded that phrase, where did you see raiders increased defense? I do not see it.

I wish i could still -1 :p_err:
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#16 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 08:51 PM

I see no reason why a effect should do more damage then a skills initial damage. They should really fix the damage on these skills. What I mean by damage dealing effects is like burn and poison, currently the burn skill is a big problem. Compared to the other damage dealing skills, such as poison which does 150-300damage/sec which last for up to 15 seconds for some classes, but damage varies depending on duration. Burn effect which for raider how ever does 500damage/sec and +initial damage which amounts to about 1-2k depending on which class the raider is versing. Mage's burn is 12 seconds and deals 400damage/sec, and initial damage is 1--4k depend on class and variables, buffs etc. Mages burn is strong, but one thing is that they cant tank really long, which means they wont be able to recast it many times. However raiders is a different story, they can tank also as well or even better then knights with their dodge and defense now and they can keep on recasting it with almost or no cooldown to wait for and at the same time tank most of the skills dealt to them. This also applies to scouts also with their poison effect which can re recasted over and over, in conclusion it is not good to put a damage dealing effect which can be recasted over and over on classes which can tank well.

Proposal:

1)lower success rate of effect
2)lower skill damage output to 250-275damage/sec For 275 damage a sec thats 275x8=2.2k+1-2k initial=3.2k-4.2k damage(burn raider) scouts poison 250 damage sec too, but lower skill duration, even with lower percentages the skills still deal way more then what normal classes deal to each other.
3)increase cooldown timer so skill cant be recasted over and over.
4)lower duration of burn effect to 2-3seconds

I do not mean to put all of these into effect to nerf the skill totally, but maybe mix and match to balance the burn effect a bit.





THERE
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#17 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 08:52 PM

I wish i could still -1 :p_err:


thankfully i can +1 your reply
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#18 Irtofu

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 09:38 PM

THERE


where does that say raiders increased defense? it says dodge and defense, not about it being increased
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#19 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:32 PM

so dont even mention defence cuz raiders have the lowest DEF
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#20 Irtofu

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 02:24 PM

so dont even mention defence cuz raiders have the lowest DEF


if you are seriously gonna bring this up.... 1 raider do not have the lowest defense depending on how you build your raider and what type of raider you are
1)you either have more defense or equal defense as scouts and more dodge
2)like I said depending on how you build you raider, you will have higher defense then mages.
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#21 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:08 AM

if you are seriously gonna bring this up.... 1 raider do not have the lowest defense depending on how you build your raider and what type of raider you are
1)you either have more defense or equal defense as scouts and more dodge
2)like I said depending on how you build you raider, you will have higher defense then mages.


U HAVE GONE INSANE........
THE TOPIC OF THE MOST WAS BURN/POISON
as you see these skills do damage per second
so considering a raider using skills of 1k damage per sec an 8sec burn only increases their AP by 500 for 8 secs
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#22 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:08 AM

if you are seriously gonna bring this up.... 1 raider do not have the lowest defense depending on how you build your raider and what type of raider you are
1)you either have more defense or equal defense as scouts and more dodge
2)like I said depending on how you build you raider, you will have higher defense then mages.


U HAVE GONE INSANE........
THE TOPIC OF THE MOST WAS BURN/POISON
as you see these skills do damage per second
so considering a raider using skills of 1k damage per sec an 8sec burn only increases their AP by 500 for 8 secs
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#23 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:08 AM

if you are seriously gonna bring this up.... 1 raider do not have the lowest defense depending on how you build your raider and what type of raider you are
1)you either have more defense or equal defense as scouts and more dodge
2)like I said depending on how you build you raider, you will have higher defense then mages.


U HAVE GONE INSANE........
THE TOPIC OF THE MOST WAS BURN/POISON
as you see these skills do damage per second
so considering a raider using skills of 1k damage per sec an 8sec burn only increases their AP by 500 for 8 secs
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#24 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:08 AM

if you are seriously gonna bring this up.... 1 raider do not have the lowest defense depending on how you build your raider and what type of raider you are
1)you either have more defense or equal defense as scouts and more dodge
2)like I said depending on how you build you raider, you will have higher defense then mages.


U HAVE GONE INSANE........
THE TOPIC OF THE MOST WAS BURN/POISON
as you see these skills do damage per second
so considering a raider using skills of 1k damage per sec an 8sec burn only increases their AP by 500 for 8 secs
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#25 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:08 AM

if you are seriously gonna bring this up.... 1 raider do not have the lowest defense depending on how you build your raider and what type of raider you are
1)you either have more defense or equal defense as scouts and more dodge
2)like I said depending on how you build you raider, you will have higher defense then mages.


U HAVE GONE INSANE........
THE TOPIC OF THE MOST WAS BURN/POISON
as you see these skills do damage per second
so considering a raider using skills of 1k damage per sec an 8sec burn only increases their AP by 500 for 8 secs
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