13 replies to this topic

[Sarune]

Anyone else notice that these items don't seem to add much aspd now? Hermode cap, merchant medalions, doppelganger card, etc, are about to become useless.

Are there plans to modify the Aspd formula?

[Clogon]

Those items never added a lot. It was because in pre RE every ASPD buff had high % and people didn't take any AGI at all that made it look like the increase was a lot. % ASPD quips only got nerfed from (200-ASPD)*mod to (195-ASPD)*mod. All in all it is quite negligible 0.5 ASPD difference for 10% mods. It still doesn't change the fact that you need to stack high % ASPD buffs for them to be useful. I personally prefer the old RE ASPD system which forced you to get AGI if you wanted good ASPD. <.<

Edited by Clogon, 25 September 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[Hrothmund]

Aspd gear equips are pretty useless now. It just seems senseless that a skill that increases aspd by 30% is better than having 50% gear aspd.

IMO both skill based aspd and gear based aspd should enter the calulation at the same time, but be multiplicative instead of additive like they used to be. It puts any class that doesnt have an innate +30% aspd skill at a big disadvantage.

Similarly it makes most aspd penalties on equipment (and some skills) almost meaningless. Take GX hallucination walk, if you have 193 aspd the 'penalty' only causes you to lose 1 aspd. Other things like some of the Weapons that have aspd penalties as balancing features.

[Sarune]

Aspd gear are completely horrid now. I used 4 Cecil weapon on a high aspd character and it only gave me 1 aspd. Why even bother with them now when there are so much better gear to use?

Anyone got any details on the jRO aspd formula? They seem to be still using aspd gears from a few videos I've seen.

[Tyre]

I'm still a little curious about the aspd stuff...

my RG (120+2 agi 50+6 dex) w/ just a Trident has 179 aspd.
w/ 3x Rapid Trident and leo diad 182 aspd.
w/ 3x Rapid Trident, Leo Diad, Berserk and SQ 190 aspd
w/ uncarded trident, berserk and SQ 189 aspd
w/ 4x rapid battle fork Leo Diad, Berserk and SQ 190 aspd
(one handed spear)*** the Bison horn gave another 2 agi which might have affected my testing a bit... I should have used a kukre clip for all tests w/o bison**
w/ javalin and nothing else 179 aspd
w/ 4x Rapid Javalin 182 aspd
w/ 4x rapid Javalin, thorny shield, bison horn and leo diad 181 aspd
w/ 4x Rapid Javalin, Thorny Shield, Bison Horn, Leo Diad, Berserk and SQ 189 aspd
w/ uncarded Javalin, berserk and SQ 189 aspd
w/ 4x Rapid Javalin, berserk and SQ 190 aspd

Hope this helps a little. I might run more tests with other characters, but the best way to know is to test for yourself =x. If you have a character in mind you'd like to test and you can't play on Ygg feel free to let me know what you'd like to test and know and I'll do what I can ^^

[Nitro]

I have not had a chance to try any Filir Pinion's on Ygg but the ASPD Zodiac helms are working for me just like on renewal. My character is actually faster on Renewal than before. If you know me, then yeah... I likey my ASPD!

[Hrothmund]

thats true, in general most classes without specialised aspd gear/skills will have higher aspd as its a lot easier to get into the 170-180 aspd range.

Getting beyond that is difficult since it can really only be done by stacking agi equips or using 30% aspd class skills and both are needed to reach 193aspd in most cases (cept maybe hunter).

[Jatzu]

Ill tell ya one thing. I feel bad for any1 with dopple weapons.

[Nombus]

I personally find it funny when I change my shield from a Thorny Buckler (10% aspd with bison horn) to a Valk Shield my attack speed goes from 182 to 181 (I actually loose aspd with this gear on). And this aspd is with 98 agi, an awake, and a 32.5% in aspd modifiers. If I remove the aspd gears altogether while wearing a normal shield, I find myself at 178 aspd (still a 4.5% natural modifier from study.

While I understand the need to nerf aspd considering was possible to get 190 aspd with barely any agi before, I think they have nerfed aspd from equips far too much and skill aspd bonuses not nearly enough. As it currently stands, aspd gears are barely worth it, and some of the best gears for classes (i.e. Ledger of Death) are worthless.

Hell, if things stay the same I might go out and buy some Mastersmith carded weapons considering the 5% reduction to aspd should, likewise, barely affect aspd.

[Clogon]

WTF do you people not understand? % ASPD from gear's only got nerfed by the fact that it is calculated as (195-ASPD)*MOD instead of (200-ASPD)*MOD. Get a 180 ASPD char in Ymir/Valk WITHOUT buffs and you will see that a 10% ASPD gear will give the char 2 ASPD. In RE, this is nerfed to 1.5 ASPD bearly any difference.

10% ASPD alone was never useful in the first place! The only difference in RE is that you can get 180 ASPD much easier and so the flat increase from % ASPD is smaller.

[Shinobi]

WTF do you people not understand? % ASPD from gear's only got nerfed by the fact that it is calculated as (195-ASPD)*MOD instead of (200-ASPD)*MOD. Get a 180 ASPD char in Ymir/Valk WITHOUT buffs and you will see that a 10% ASPD gear will give the char 2 ASPD. In RE, this is nerfed to 1.5 ASPD bearly any difference.

10% ASPD alone was never useful in the first place! The only difference in RE is that you can get 180 ASPD much easier and so the flat increase from % ASPD is smaller.

Clearly, they bearly not understand.

It's a question that has been answered before. I suggest keeping the atk spd gear and working it in to any builds you may have. You will see some builds benefit from them more then others.

[Hrothmund]

WTF do you people not understand? % ASPD from gear's only got nerfed by the fact that it is calculated as (195-ASPD)*MOD instead of (200-ASPD)*MOD. Get a 180 ASPD char in Ymir/Valk WITHOUT buffs and you will see that a 10% ASPD gear will give the char 2 ASPD. In RE, this is nerfed to 1.5 ASPD bearly any difference.

10% ASPD alone was never useful in the first place! The only difference in RE is that you can get 180 ASPD much easier and so the flat increase from % ASPD is smaller.

The fact skills stack with standard aspd pots, but equipment is on its own means equip base aspd has taken a huge hit whereas aspd skills have been untouched. Now, the closer you get to max aspd the more worthless equip aspd becomes.

Nobody cares if someone with crappy aspd gets a boost out of dopple cards etc because you dont use high end mvp gear to get "average" results. At the high ends you need almost twice as much gear based aspd to get the same result of skill based aspd which is absolutely stupid.

Make skills work off (195-aspd) and aspd pots then at least it'll have even footing.

[Sarune]

Exactly.

Talk formulas all you want, but this doesn't change the fact that aspd gear is a lot useful now.

[Tyre]

Nobody cares if someone with crappy aspd gets a boost out of dopple cards etc because you dont use high end mvp gear to get "average" results. At the high ends you need almost twice as much gear based aspd to get the same result of skill based aspd which is absolutely stupid.

The reason you need about 2x the gear is because you're looking at it wrong.

for a very simple example:

180 aspd is twice as fast as 160 aspd, while 190 aspd is twice as fast as 180 aspd. If it were possible 195 would be twice as fast as 190...

So even though there is a gain of 20 in the first case and 10 in the second one, it's still an effect of +50% aspd, which still means you swing twice as fast.

I don't know what else to say to make it easier to understand... maybe compairing it to the old (well soon to be old) cast time formula, so long as you had 150 dex it was instant cast right? which ment that 149 was twice as fast as 148 which was twice as fast as 146 which was twices as fast as 142... etc etc...