27 replies to this topic

[Amiow]

I manage to obtain 1b zeny. Now, I want to build a almost perfect Rk for woe. can anyone give me suggestion what should I used. I'm a full db build. These are my stat:

STR 1
AGI 90
VIT 111
INT 100
DEX 95
LUK 1

[Smolderbil]

Full-DB is far from perfect. Pre-balance, you could somehow get away with it since Clashing Spiral used to be OP, but that's no longer the case.
With 1 Str, your Hundred Spear (assuming you'll get it), Storm Blast, and Crush Strike damage would be atrocious.
I suggest transferring some points from Agi and Int to Str.
You don't really need that much Agi even if you're thinking about delay on Strings, and Int could be lower since you could get lots of flat SP from Mora enchants.

Edited by Smolderbil, 20 August 2012 - 02:20 AM.

[Amiow]

The gear..tell me the gear

[DrAzzy]

That isn't a full DB build, that's considerably worse than a full DB build. And even the build you posted WAS a full DB build, that is not a good build unless you have access to a Tao Gunka card, which is considerably beyond your 1b budget (they run 10b+ if you can find anyone willing to sell at all). Like smoulderbil said, pure DB is not viable now that CS has been nerfed, and HS and crush strike buffed. Turning your back on HS and Crush Strike by getting 1 str is not a winning move, especially when you're trading all that for such a small boost in DB damage over a HS/DB build

You shouldn't be buying gear yet - you should be buying reset stones to fix your build.

The agi is not a good use of stat points - One might think you were getting it for masq resist - but if you were putting stats for strip resist, there'd be a small amount of str and luk as well, as they add some masq resist too (via increased max weight, in the case of str). So I'm not sure exactly what you were even thinking with that. In any case, that build, as posted, is not going to be effective.

[CeruleanGamer]

It's not smart to ignore Dragon Breath altogether though. It's your best AoE skill since Storm Blast became garbage now.

You don't need AGI for ASPD. We have Alca Bringer for a reason and with Snake Hat on, you can be a decent breaker too.

[kasshin]

WoE set or some WoE pieces are probably one of your best bets right now. You may or may not switch to a full Ur's set for the hundred spears damage boost. Other obvious gears are the standard CEB, cranial shields, combat knife for switching, handkerchief in mouth.

Glorious spear is a must and the new vellum spear is pretty strong for hundred spears.

Ur's seal with double SP enchants (+250 SP) is the best accessory for dragon breath. Other useful accessories could be glorious ring, medal of honor, waterdrop brooch, enchanted / carded peuz seal (for the +20 ATK).

Edited by kasshin, 20 August 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Amiow]

the agi, I was thinking to avoid the masquerade. Well, if you guys think my build were bad. can anyone suggest what stat I should put then.

[Baturiano]

pump some str on that thing gives you more options when it comes to fighting. Storm Blast/DB/HS. Actually a friend of mine wears +12 Ur's Plate and the other set pieces to +9 and he is tanky af. can survive fist and can db very effectively because of the hp bonus that the set gives. Low agi is the risk you have to take with low budget, when you farm up more zennies you can try budd royce's hybrid build which can pretty much do anything.

[DrAzzy]

What I did was:

100 vit (for DB damage, survivability, and status immunity) - I got 100 base vit, because after 100, the stat points get so much more expensive, so it becomes a lot harder to justify it.
100 dex (for DB cast time, and hit for HS/CS. There is nothing more depressing than charging up crush strike just to have it miss)
100 str (for HS and CS damage)

Then, to round it out - 61 base agi (66 total), around 60-70 base int (for DB, and to a lesser extent, SP pool for leveling), and like 40 total luk (for masq resist)

This leaves a few extra points (I still have unspent points that I've been mulling exactly how to spend) - so you could adjust it a bit in any direction.

Why that number for Agi and Luk?

The masq formula is this:
So let's do out some math, assuming a caster with 144 total dex (because it makes the math work out easy)


{(Caster’s Base Level / 10) + Random number between [(Caster’s DEX / 12) ~ (Caster’s DEX / 4)] + (Caster’s Job Level) + (Skill Level x 10) - < (Target’s Base Level / 10) + [Random number between [(Target’s AGI / 6) ~ (Target’s AGI / 3)] + (Target’s LUK / 10) + [(Target’s Maximum Weight - Current weight) / 100]>] %

{(15) + Random number between [12 ~ 36] + (50) + (30) - < (15) + [Random number between [11 ~ 22] + (4) + [10000 - 3000) / 100]>] %
107+Randint(0,23) - (30 + randint(0,11)+70
(107~130) - (110~121)

Minimum of (Skill Level + (DEX / 20)) % success rate. (ie, 10%)

There are (24*12)=288 combinations. Solving this numerically, we find that in the majority of cases, we're riding along the minimum success rate.
80% of results of those random numbers will be at 10% because of the minimum success rate. The average success rate of a stalker stripping us in the described situation is only 10.76% - just barely above the minimum rate.


Let's do the same math on the player's side for your original build proposal - and you'll see why str matters even just from the masq perspective:
< (15) + [Random number between [15 ~ 30] + 0 + [(7030 - 3000) / 100]>
< (15) + [Random number between [15 ~ 30] + 0 + 40>
70~85, yielding a masq success rate of 43.7% - mainly because the piles of agi is less effective (and my build also has a fair pile of agi too) than getting some luk, and due to your low weight limit. I picked 3k as the weight i'd be carrying, because that's what weight limit I come out to when I optimize my inventory for woe, and get rid of every unnecessary weight I can....

Edited by DrAzzy, 21 August 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[ilovemilk]

What I did was:

100 vit (for DB damage, survivability, and status immunity) - I got 100 base vit, because after 100, the stat points get so much more expensive, so it becomes a lot harder to justify it.
100 dex (for DB cast time, and hit for HS/CS. There is nothing more depressing than charging up crush strike just to have it miss)
100 str (for HS and CS damage)

Then, to round it out - 61 base agi (66 total), around 60-70 base int (for DB, and to a lesser extent, SP pool for leveling), and like 40 total luk (for masq resist)

This leaves a few extra points (I still have unspent points that I've been mulling exactly how to spend) - so you could adjust it a bit in any direction.

Why that number for Agi and Luk?

The masq formula is this:
So let's do out some math, assuming a caster with 144 total dex (because it makes the math work out easy)


{(Caster’s Base Level / 10) + Random number between [(Caster’s DEX / 12) ~ (Caster’s DEX / 4)] + (Caster’s Job Level) + (Skill Level x 10) - < (Target’s Base Level / 10) + [Random number between [(Target’s AGI / 6) ~ (Target’s AGI / 3)] + (Target’s LUK / 10) + [(Target’s Maximum Weight - Current weight) / 100]>] %

{(15) + Random number between [12 ~ 36] + (50) + (30) - < (15) + [Random number between [11 ~ 22] + (4) + [10000 - 3000) / 100]>] %
107+Randint(0,23) - (30 + randint(0,11)+70
(107~130) - (110~121)

Minimum of (Skill Level + (DEX / 20)) % success rate. (ie, 10%)

There are (24*12)=288 combinations. Solving this numerically, we find that in the majority of cases, we're riding along the minimum success rate.
80% of results of those random numbers will be at 10% because of the minimum success rate. The average success rate of a stalker stripping us in the described situation is only 10.76% - just barely above the minimum rate.



Damn you really know your stuff. Off topic question: do you smoke?

Let's do the same math on the player's side for your original build proposal - and you'll see why str matters even just from the masq perspective:
< (15) + [Random number between [15 ~ 30] + 0 + [(7030 - 3000) / 100]>
< (15) + [Random number between [15 ~ 30] + 0 + 40>
70~85, yielding a masq success rate of 43.7% - mainly because the piles of agi is less effective (and my build also has a fair pile of agi too) than getting some luk, and due to your low weight limit. I picked 3k as the weight i'd be carrying, because that's what weight limit I come out to when I optimize my inventory for woe, and get rid of every unnecessary weight I can....

[DrAzzy]

Did you mean to put in a response there? All I see is my quoted post...?

[Smolderbil]

ilovemilk said, "Damn you really know your stuff. Off topic question: do you smoke?" before the last paragraph.

[CeruleanGamer]

If you're gonna get less than 80 INT, might as well ditch Dragon Breath altogether then. SP is a huge factor in Dragon Breath damage.... Bryn will give you a better damage for DB than Glorious Suit even though Glorious Suit can give an RK 3k-4k more HP.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 23 August 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Carp]

Move most of your Agi to str so you can use crush strike, leet AGI won't save you from masq against a decent chaser. Forget HS it's actually a crap skill in woe will only kill noobs and don't forget RKs only shines if you use runes 24/7.

[DrAzzy]

If you're gonna get less than 80 INT, might as well ditch Dragon Breath altogether then. SP is a huge factor in Dragon Breath damage....

You are wrong.....

With 50-60 int, you've got like 900 base SP, with 100 int, you've got 1200 base SP. That's a difference of 300. Assuming you use variants, 360.

Damage is given by :

{(Caster’s HP / 50) + (Caster’s MSP / 4)} x (Dragon Breath Skill Level x Caster’s Base Level / 150)} x Dragon Training bonus damage

lvl 150/50, DB 10 DT 5:
{(Caster’s HP / 50) + (Caster’s MSP / 4)} x 12

So the difference would be (360/4)*12 = 360*3 = 1080 damage, between 50-60 int and around-100 int.

That's not much of a difference! SP has a huge effect on DB damage (12.5x greater than hp) but int doesn't add nearly as much SP as you'd like it to. The bryn is so ridiculously good for DB because of the massive additive bonus it gives to max SP.

Also - with good mora enchants, mora set DB is comparable to bryn (Need to get real lucky on shoes+acc - can get +250 sp on acc, +400 sp on shoes, and with the other enchants + set bonus bringing HP up considerably as well)

Edited by DrAzzy, 23 August 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[gerpogi]

gonna need that int for storm blast though..unless you dont plan on utilizing that rune.

[DrAzzy]

gonna need that int for storm blast though..unless you dont plan on utilizing that rune.

This is a much better reason to get int - though unfortunately storm blast isn't quite as OP as it used to be, so it's somewhat harder to justify the 100 int 100 str build on that grounds - it's a valid option - but just make sure you're getting it because you understand and want to use stormblast, not because you think it will increase your DB damage significantly.

Storm Blast damage is:


ATK [{Rune Mastery Skill Level + (Caster’s INT / 8)} x 100] %

So at 0 int it's 1000% atk, at 40 int it's 1500% atk, at 80 int 2000% atk, etc. Prior to the nerf, it was int/4 instead of int/8, so the damage numbers were considerably higher. (so with my build, we're talking around 1800%)

That's not really a very good damage modifier compared to our other skills.

[Amiow]

woo..so much calculation..im bad with math

[ilovemilk]

Did you mean to put in a response there? All I see is my quoted post...?

that's forum fault. It couldn't accept too many text in a quote. I was just complimenting your expertise in this game. How long have you been playing RO and do you smoke weed?

[DrAzzy]

that's forum fault. It couldn't accept too many text in a quote. I was just complimenting your expertise in this game. How long have you been playing RO and do you smoke weed?

Either break the quote up (by copy/pasting the /quote tag before your response and open quote tag after), or put the response after the quoted text, or make the text a different color.

In 2 months, I will have been playing for 8 years.

Please note that the forum rules prohibit discussion of drugs.

[gerpogi]

This is a much better reason to get int - though unfortunately storm blast isn't quite as OP as it used to be, so it's somewhat harder to justify the 100 int 100 str build on that grounds - it's a valid option - but just make sure you're getting it because you understand and want to use stormblast, not because you think it will increase your DB damage significantly.

Storm Blast damage is:


ATK [{Rune Mastery Skill Level + (Caster’s INT / 8)} x 100] %

So at 0 int it's 1000% atk, at 40 int it's 1500% atk, at 80 int 2000% atk, etc. Prior to the nerf, it was int/4 instead of int/8, so the damage numbers were considerably higher. (so with my build, we're talking around 1800%)

That's not really a very good damage modifier compared to our other skills.

yeap. unless you're meg'd, dont bother with storm blast

[DrAzzy]

yeap. unless you're meg'd, dont bother with storm blast

Even then, it's nothing to shout about :-/

[gerpogi]

Even then, it's nothing to shout about :-/

im just saying. no ill mannered intentions there.

[DrAzzy]

im just saying. no ill mannered intentions there.

Hm? I was just pointing out that megged stormblast still isn't terribly effective. It's okay, but nothing amazing.

[MedMad]

DrAzzy, this is new for me untyl now i have been told that 75 dex enough to hit what ever and to max luk instaid
giving to guild members
Str:100
vit:100 (sp pool) at 1800+ niddg and variant cod with 70 int 1600 your kind of right on that point since sp enchant will do the same do am not using mora set like niddg and variant bether
int:100
dex:75 only
luk:60+ (for CS damage ) How much is luk eficient for CS damage?

are you using 100 dex beacuz you wear ceb and not cod+9?
many build say 90 dex is good but more is unjustifed who can you justifie 100 dex ?
100 dex does it mean i wont miss gx in pvp ? and also
100 dex well for Cs you can use right clik conter strike in order not to miss it and spear dynamo add 50 hit i think to your HS
most told me over 90 dex is over done cant you give me your opinion on that please?
and also ive wanted in the future when chips come around to make a HBP build for my rk goes like
100str
100vit
90 dex
90 int
rest in luk and agi
is that +50 MATK negligeable
10% range atak + 30 atak makes a decent Hs
and 90 should work nice whit a Cod+9 dont you think?