121 replies to this topic

[CeruleanGamer]

Scientistic:
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" What YOU mean goooooooo!!!!"



( Scientistic clears Battle Eyes, really seeing who it was.)




NPC-Messager:
------------------
" Boss, it's Lieutenant Cubical!"



Scientistic:
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" OH! Uhem, greetings Cubical. Forgive me, i was in battle-mode"



( Without warning, Scientistic Diamond Cutters the Messager.)




Scientistic:
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" Why didn't you tell me the Lieutenant was here!"



Lieutenant Cubical:
-----------------------
" "





Chaos:
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" I told you not to call him boss."




NPC-Messager- II -
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" Scientistic, he said so, what's the plan.




Scientistic:
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" OH! Well, at the center- pea of this Battle Of Yggdrasil rights, the issue idea of regional...."




( The Messager speared Scientist. Both Warriors went rolling down the hill , ironing out their excitement for Battle.)






Chaos:
--------
" If you will Lieutenant Cubical, i'll explain what going on. Worry not about the Advisior warm ups. It's been awhile since Morroc been this active, with this many Guild Elites in one area."




( Cubical looking behind him walking with Chaos the other way, heading for Headquarters..)




Lieutenant Cubrical:
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" And the War didn't even start yet. Will they be alright!






Chaos:
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" Of Gourse!! If that doesn't build character, don't know what else will! Doctor said it's healthy for morale too! Wi'll come back and check on them later!





( Chaos and Cubical trooped off discussing up and coming surprises..)

I understood little but......

+9001

[renouille]

Items lose value overtime, sorry if you've been dormant for over a year then don't complain that your items lost it's value. To be a successful businessman in a game or in reality you must never never stop investing and earning money.

PS. You should know this you play on a server with a few players and hand me down items from the massive P2P server.

First, he didn't complain about his items losing value.

Second, his point (which I'm not going to agree or disagree with) was that
(1) he worked 10 times harder than an ordinary legendary individual (so why shouldn't he have 10 times the wealth?), and
(2) since his items and accounts are all dormant on Ymir, they are essentially a nonfactor
...so he can't be "the problem" that some people are talking about.

[Dreimdal]

What a stupid comment.

Just because you player for 6 years (less time than me!) but did more tedious micro-transactions with your wealth you believe you should be a veritable god compared to other people in PVP/WoE/MVP? How is selling things in vendshop "work"? And buying ridiculously cheap items off a bloated server with too many items and too few players "work"? You played the game and made money in the game. Then bought things with the money. I've been pretty wealthy on this game over the years myself, but you know what? I played newer servers that were more balanced, had smaller and more intimate communities, and god pieces were so rare guilds horded them and didn't sell. Iris and Yggsrasil are about 7 years of my 9 year RO career. Because I didn't play an imbalanced over-saturated old as dirt item database but overturned population server I have not had the same opportunities as you to buy pieces of god items. And if I did, I would have lost them when I started fresh on Yggdrasil. The problem, sir, is that people who have played on more balanced servers like Yggdrasil and Valkyrie have played just as long and hard as you, but because their server's economy aren't as stupid as yours, the items have been largely out of their reach or in much smaller quantities than you. You have a sick sense of self-entitlement.

And to crown this post off you're complaining because you might lose stuff on a game you don't even play.

Do you even understand the thousands of hours people have poured into acquiring those items? You might not have god items, or mvp cards, but how would you feel if your most prized in-game acquisitions, whatever those happen to be, were just wiped out at the whim of someone who had no concept of the effort you put into getting them? Would you just take the loss and keep playing afterward if that happened to you?

What you're suggesting is not only self-centered, but I daresay that it's evil and morally repugnant. It's comparable to someone going to city council and requesting that an addon to your house be demolished with no compensation to you. Mind you, this add on is entirely legal and within code, but the other person wants it destroyed because they're jealous, or they just don't like you, or whatever. They want to legitimize they're desire to vandalize and outright destroy your property, which you worked hard for, when normally, doing something would be illegal and result in criminal charages if they tried to do it themselves. Thus, they appeal to the government to fulfill their depraved desires on their behlaf.

In short: It's easy enough for you and others to simply say "well, just wipe them all" because it won't hurt you in any way, but that's very selfish to not think about how it will hurt others. And you're only able to say it because you didn't take the time to earn those things yourself. You have no right to call this person selfish, you hypocrite. Neither you nor any other player has the right to arbitrarily strip others of their efforts. If it doesn't belong to you, then you have no say in it.

And for the record, I do not own any of those items, but I am able put myself in the place of an owner and see their perspective and the thought of how unfair it would be to simply strip them of all those hours of hard work, and that thought fills me with indignation.

Edited by Dreimdal, 05 September 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[EndovDaze]

Dreimdal, it's what I've been saying this whole time. No compensation is not the answer. And anyone who doesn't have god items can't speak for having item wipes.

Exactly the same way anyone who doesn't have characters worth losing on Ymir speak for having the server canned. The solution needs to come from people who have god items/mvp cards.

No way around it. Because I don't have any, it's hard to say what. But there has to be some middle ground.

[Facekiller]

so instead we should bear the burden of letting items created on another server (some of which were gotten by questionable means) to come into our servers and drastically change the balance of these servers? i feel bad for ymir server and for those owning the items in question but at the same time see it from our point of view... WE didnt cause the problems on ymir... our servers dont have massive stockpiles of these items and WE shouldnt have to deal with the effects of ONE poorly managed server.... its really not a fair situation to anybody involved...

[CeruleanGamer]

They should have an in-game voting for Ymir people who own gods/mvps.

[Baturiano]

First, he didn't complain about his items losing value.

Second, his point (which I'm not going to agree or disagree with) was that
(1) he worked 10 times harder than an ordinary legendary individual (so why shouldn't he have 10 times the wealth?), and
(2) since his items and accounts are all dormant on Ymir, they are essentially a nonfactor
...so he can't be "the problem" that some people are talking about.

(1) A year is a lot of time for others to get the same items as he has. No one can maintain that 10 times the wealth if he doesnt keep at it) and its not that hard when people can sell WP for zenny/gods. I respect that he did this with honest hardwork, but he simply can't just come back and claim that he has everything.

(2) He wants to transfer everything to classic. It's dropping the nuclear bomb to the economy if you ask me.

P.S GM's should make players who own Gods pick one or two Gods they can take with them on server transfer. (If you're renewal then its renewal -> renewal) One is tradeable. Another is Account Bound so that they wont make much of an impact on the market. I can't think of compensation for the other gods but feel free to chip in.

Edited by Baturiano, 04 September 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[EndovDaze]

so instead we should bear the burden of letting items created on another server (some of which were gotten by questionable means) to come into our servers and drastically change the balance of these servers? i feel bad for ymir server and for those owning the items in question but at the same time see it from our point of view... WE didnt cause the problems on ymir... our servers dont have massive stockpiles of these items and WE shouldnt have to deal with the effects of ONE poorly managed server.... its really not a fair situation to anybody involved...

That's why there shouldn't be a merger into Valk. You feel entitled to protect YOUR server. Merge everyone into a new server.

Someone from Valk speaking about "questionable means". Olordy.

Well, we didn't cause the problem either. Valk has been around long enough to have its stockpiles of gods. And don't get me started on mvps. They're farmed around the clock by "questionable means." So let's not assume what the counts are on each server.

If anyone should be up in arms about it it's Ygg, but even they have had ezpz woe farming.

If you have gods and mvps, then speak about what would be needed for for a merger. If you even want one at all.

Eventually though, free server transfers out with lenient policy on zeny being transfered for those who don't have any of the restricted items would be a start to keeping the remaining unelite group of players.

And not transfers to Valk/Ygg. But transfers to a brand new server where these lenient transfers can be made to everyone and no one is ENTITLED to share their opinion on who is coming in.

[BrutalCeasar]

(1) A year is a lot of time for others to get the same items as he has. No one can maintain that 10 times the wealth if he doesnt keep at it) and its not that hard when people can sell WP for zenny/gods. I respect that he did this with honest hardwork, but he simply can't just come back and claim that he has everything.

(2) He wants to transfer everything to classic. It's dropping the nuclear bomb to the economy if you ask me.

P.S GM's should make players who own Gods pick one or two Gods they can take with them on server transfer. (If you're renewal then its renewal -> renewal) One is tradeable. Another is Account Bound so that they wont make much of an impact on the market. I can't think of compensation for the other gods but feel free to chip in.

lol you obviously don't know how bad the situation is on ymir huh? You do realize that MANY people have MANY accounts with MULTIPLE gods on each of said accounts don't you? before I liquidated my nontransferable gears and moved to ygg I had 2 accounts with multiple gods in each of them. And I wasn't even considered "rich" by ymir standards. If the gms did do what you suggested the what is gonna stop people from just putting gods on the 10 accounts they have and transfer over many tradable gods?

[Facekiller]

WHY are there no people on Ymir? and dont go blaming classic...

[Baturiano]

lol you obviously don't know how bad the situation is on ymir huh? You do realize that MANY people have MANY accounts with MULTIPLE gods on each of said accounts don't you? before I liquidated my nontransferable gears and moved to ygg I had 2 accounts with multiple gods in each of them. And I wasn't even considered "rich" by ymir standards. If the gms did do what you suggested the what is gonna stop people from just putting gods on the 10 accounts they have and transfer over many tradable gods?

And these accounts are of a different WP main account? Or the same WP account? If the former which I doubt they would pay for more than 1 main WP account. Freeze the trades now and check the activity list of players in the server. Judge what range of days/months/years can be considered "valid" for server transfer. If the latter then it would be choose 1 ragnarok account which has gods in it.

[renouille]

(1) A year is a lot of time for others to get the same items as he has. No one can maintain that 10 times the wealth if he doesnt keep at it) and its not that hard when people can sell WP for zenny/gods. I respect that he did this with honest hardwork, but he simply can't just come back and claim that he has everything.

He didn't claim that either.

(2) He wants to transfer everything to classic. It's dropping the nuclear bomb to the economy if you ask me.

He said he might play again if there were transfers to classic. That's not quite the same as wanting or seriously expecting that to happen.
What does this have to do with my post that you quoted?

[Baturiano]

It will be a factor if it transfers to classic.

[Facekiller]

first figuring out what caused ymir to decay to its current state should be top priority... this will tell us what can be done in the future to avoid this situation in the future

[Lynex]

Consolidation of 6-7 years of progress if not more into a single entity. The big WoE guilds when there were Chaos, Loki, Iris and Sakray had everything they needed for the times, especially when god's really came into the mix. You put all of that at the top and there's no middle ground, you either are incredibly well off or you aren't. Be it in total zeny on your account or the actual assets you're wearing. Its a stagnant economy that only serves the people who really have cash to spend. No one wants to roll a new character here, the climb to just get some good gear is over the top compared to either of the other two servers.

What makes a good server to me? A solid, thriving economy. Think of this as a joke if you wish; but if you have no "middle-class" in your economy, you're going to suffer...bad. Ymir started to die when people stopped selling outside of Pront/Eden, they all went to Valk/Ygg.

[EarthLight]

first figuring out what caused ymir to decay to its current state should be top priority

I can tell you what went wrong.

The GM team made one huge mistake: Capitulating to the user base. As you know, initially they announced a server merge. At the last second, they backed off from their firm position on going ahead with it no matter what, and decided to attempt to democratize the decision.

This was their blunder. They turned the decisions for the direction of their company over to a handful of users who have utterly conflicted opinions about what they want, and -- surprise, it devolved into endless bickering followed by stagnation, silence, and inaction. By allowing any of the users (no matter how many virtual MVP cards they have) to dictate policy to the people who actually run the show, they've given rise to a new crop of tin-pot dictators who are convinced that they know how best to handle the situation, because they've been lead to believe that they have the power to. This ties Gravity's hands when it comes to making any new decisions, especially ones that would benefit the servers as a whole at the cost of the very few.

The GMs should have simply done the merge and taken the flak as planned. The sudden and abrupt shock would be over by now. Instead, it's devolved into a contratian nightmare. Inordinate decision-making power in the hands of a very vocal minority covering their own interests and assets at all costs while a once vibrant server withers on the vine. That's why Ymir's dying.

Edit: The damage from this compounds daily, and with each thread we make in which to complain about it. There is no decision that will make everyone happy. Granting everyone veto power will stall the resolution of this issue indefinitely assuming it's not too late already.

Edited by EarthLight, 05 September 2012 - 01:03 AM.

[bl0ck]

Do you even understand the thousands of hours people have poured into acquiring those items? You might not have god items, or mvp cards, but how would you feel if your most prized in-game acquisitions, whatever those happen to be, were just wiped out at the whim of someone who had no concept of the effort you put into getting them? Would you just take the loss and keep playing afterward if that happened to you?

What you're suggesting is not only self-centered, but I daresay that it's evil and morally repugnant. It's comparable to someone going to city council and requesting that an addon to your house be demolished with no compensation to you. Mind you, this add on is entirely legal and within code, but the other person wants it destroyed because they're jealous, or they just don't like you, or whatever. They want to legitimize they're desire to vandalize and outright destroy your property, which you worked hard for, when normally, doing something would be illegal and result in criminal charages if they tried to do it themselves. Thus, they appeal to the government to fulfill their depraved desires on their behlaf.

In short: It's easy enough for you and others to simply say "well, just wipe them all" because it won't hurt you in any way, but that's very selfish to not think about how it will hurt others. You have no right to call this person selfish, you hypocrite. Neither you nor any other player has the right to arbitrarily strip others of their efforts.

+1

Edited by bl0ck, 05 September 2012 - 12:17 AM.

[Carp]

Give the ppl of ymir free transfers with limitations on gods/mvp cards then let the server die, merging it to another server will just pass the problems of ymir to that server. Theres always an end to everything just like what happened to other ROs.

[slwl1]

if there is a merge between ymir and valk i m sure a lot of people will be quitting

[saviourimpulse]

I can tell you what went wrong.

The GM team made one huge mistake: Capitulating to the user base. As you know, initially they announced a server merge. At the last second, they backed off from their firm position on going ahead with it no matter what, and decided to attempt to democratize the decision.

This was their blunder. They turned the decisions for the direction of their company over to a handful of users who have utterly conflicted opinions about what they want, and -- surprise, it devolved into endless bickering followed by stagnation, silence, and inaction. By allowing any of the users (no matter how many virtual MVP cards they have) to dictate policy to the people who actually run the show, they've given rise to a new crop of tin-pot dictators who are convinced that they know how best to handle the situation, because they've been lead to believe that they have the power to. This ties Gravity's hands when it comes to making any new decisions, especially ones that would benefit the servers as a whole at the cost of the very few.

The GMs should have simply done the merge and taken the flak as planned. The sudden and abrupt shock would be over by now. Instead, it's devolved into a contratian nightmare. Inordinate decision-making power in the hands of a very vocal minority covering their own interests and assets at all costs while a once vibrant server withers on the vine. That's why Ymir's dying.

Edit: The damage from this compounds daily, and with each thread we make in which to complain about it. There is no decision that will make everyone happy. Granting everyone veto power will stall the resolution of this issue indefinitely assuming it's not too late already.

+9000
Hammer it hooooome
It's a good thing to listen to the players, but the players don't always know the bigger picture.
It feels like the iRO management has been rather weak in their decision making.
*Whether the decisions are good or bad is another story.

Edited by saviourimpulse, 05 September 2012 - 01:34 AM.

[Anemoi]

Please stop arguing about Renewal vs Classic. I am sick of seeing the same old buttholes over and over again. Stop it!

Um, I personally think it's not my fault that Ymir is dying, so I refuse to pay for my characters transfer.

There are new buttholes to stare into every day.

[Lynex]

if there is a merge between ymir and valk i m sure a lot of people will be quitting

Because of all of the God Items and MVP cards?

[Niji]

first figuring out what caused ymir to decay to its current state should be top priority... this will tell us what can be done in the future to avoid this situation in the future

everyone graduated and got jobs so now they can't play anymore.

[GryphonYoyo]

ok people, here is the bottom line..........we ALL need to figure something out that will be acceptable to the majority, otherwise there will be no iro in which to play..........and i for one do not want to see my thousands of hours of work be flushed.......so instead of arguing, we need to work to figure out how to save the game we all love to play

[Kadelia]

It's a good thing to listen to the players, but the players don't always know the bigger picture.
It feels like the iRO management has been rather weak in their decision making.
*Whether the decisions are good or bad is another story.

Basically you are correct except for which players they should be ignoring: you. Any idiot can look at the result of the last 2 merges and know they aren't beneficial in the slightest, long-term. The weak decision was to announce a merge in the first place.

Edited by Jaye, 05 September 2012 - 07:01 AM.