372 replies to this topic

[Fables]

Why 1-3PM PST was an awful time to stress test your siege, and why it is an awful time to hold normal siege:

• It divides a weekend day exactly in half, leaving you without enough time to run errands in the morning, nor in the afternoon.
• You are left making excuses about video game commitments in the middle of a day.
• Since any of the more serious guilds will be wanting to prepare for siege, you are really asking for more like noon/12:30 - 3PM PST. It is not a cut and dry two hour commitment for most people.
• Having to clear a Saturday afternoon to siege is fine. Having to consistently, every weekend clear a Saturday afternoon to siege is pretty lame.
• Having only one inconvenient time per week for an undisclosed amount of time actively discourages people from regularly attending.

Why having normal siege during the evening (as previously done) was awesome:

• You can run errands all day, siege in the evening while you pregame, then be ready to go out with friends completely drunk.
• If you have no friends, you can run errands all day, siege in the evening while you pregame, then level drunk until 5AM, which is the quintissential Ragnarok experience.
• Most people become lonely if they have no plans in the evening on a weekend, so they are more likely to sign on and feel welcome and wanted when their guild leaders are screaming at them to join them.
• Sometimes people want to relax on the weekend with a scotch, a steak, and Ragnarok War.
• I can attend all the time.
• You can concentrate and perform better since you've had all day to prepare yourself for battle.
• Attacks are best made under the cover of darkness, so the later in the evening siege begins, the more exciting it is.
• Everyone who plays Ragnarok is a night owl or insomniac, so regardless of country and time zone, PST late evening is simply catering towards your playerbase.
• People who have to miss evening siege won't feel like a loser saying they missed it because people who have things to do at night are probably kind of cool and on a date or a drug dealer. On a date.
• There are twice as many reasons that a later time is better than an afternoon siege.

I hope you don't seriously consider a poll conducted on this forum to be indicative of what the people actually playing wants. I had to be told by three different people that the permanent siege time was already decided and I really had no other venue to see where and how this decision was made. I mean look at that thing, your sample size was literally less than 300 people. The choice that won only won by a margin of less than 30 people.

[Naida]

I hope you don't seriously consider a poll conducted on this forum to be indicative of what the people actually playing wants.

You wouldn't be arguing the reliability of this poll if the results swung in your favor. So what if not everyone voted. The people that voted still count for something and they're no more or less important than yours.

When I was in high school the evening times suited me best. As an adult I now, with the economy as it is everything closes early, so if I need to get done I do it in the morning. I personally would prefer really early or really late, but it can't be too early or else the lazy birds won't attend and iunno what 7-9 PST would look like on this server. But I'd rather leave the house at 3 than 5. If what I have to do is important, WoE can wait.

[Andini]

your reasoning for 1-3 pst being a bad time are dumb as you state it like its fact for most pst players. i've talked to a lot of other pst players and as a person that lives in the pst time zone as well, we much rather have a woe during 1-3 pst which doesnt really effect anything in the morn or late afternoon and definately not anything into the night. i understand that some ppl have to work on saturdays, but that's how it always is. saturday nights are when you want to go out or relax somewhere with friends. worse options would be for this to go to ymir woe time of 7-9 pst or even ygg at 5-7 pm because of the primetime hours that would be for people on the west coast and esp for est players ( 8 - 10 pm or 10 - midnight). 1 - 3 pm is also much more adequate of a time for some euro players than say 3-5 or 5-7. if you can't run errands because of 2 hrs in the middle of the day as a reason, you need better time management or more efficiency when you do things

i would say that the only time frames that are reasonable are 1-3 or 3-5, but i know a lot of ppl that would complain since 3-5 overlaps with the most populated renewal woe which is that of valk server

Edited by Andini, 05 October 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[Meiji]

Here's the thing: 1-3pst, people work, can't take off for siege, so unless they change jobs/somehow get a different schedule, they can NEVER attend WoE. It simply will not be an option to them. Which is why Saturday only is stupid.

Also, if it's true about 3-5pst clashing with Valk, then it's a stupid option to begin with.

Edited by Meiji, 05 October 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[Andini]

ppl will always not be able to woe for certain reasons. valk woe on weekdays is 4-6 pst and ymir/ygg 3-5. i have never made one of those cause of work for the past years unless i left work considerably early or had that day off. that's just how it is. the only woe therefore for all those ppl would be weekends. not everyone works on weekdays just like not everyone works on a saturday afternoon. an option would be to have two woes a week, but i dont really see that happening.

THERE IS NO PLEASING EVERYONE, so in essense this thread is pointless as usually the ppl that post are just the ppl that dont like the time

Edited by Andini, 05 October 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Kuropi]

Here's the thing: 1-3pst, people work, can't take off for siege, so unless they change jobs/somehow get a different schedule, they can NEVER attend WoE. It simply will not be an option to them. Which is why Saturday only is stupid.

Also, if it's true about 3-5pst clashing with Valk, then it's a stupid option to begin with.

Everybody isn't going to be able to make siege no matter what you do. Unless it's the recaller, this shouldn't be a major issue, and even if it is, the recaller is probably going to need to share account info with at *least* one other person to make sure treasure gets collected every day. I play recaller for Immaculate when Leo isn't around, and we've never really had any issues.

[Meiji]

My point wasn't to say that everyone should be able to make it, because obviously that is impossible. What I should have clarified is that it's easier to clear an evening for a lot of people than it is to clear an afternoon.

And in our case, it is our guild leader that works Saturday afternoons. So you can imagine how this would affect us.

[ClickyHpen]

THERE IS NO PLEASING EVERYONE, so in essense this thread is pointless as usually the ppl that post are just the ppl that dont like the time

you're only defending this because a time that's convenient for you won.

now that those stupid arguments are out of the way, i'd like to highlight the part of your post that i liked the most: 2 woes a week. if that could be worked out, then i feel we'd get really close to everyone getting to woe at least once a week. yes, there are a whole boatload of new concerns there, so it'd need a new thread i imagine. still a decent idea, imo, and it'd bring us a bit closer to having very few people complain about missing woe.

and kuropi, i AM a recaller. missing woe kind of makes me miss out on most of the reasons i came back to classic/nagged my old friends to play again. if i just wanted to hang out with them on an anime chatroom or only pvm i'd probably have chosen a different avenue/game.

[Andini]

i've woed on valk/ygg/ymir (which is essentially 3-5, 5-7, 7-9, obviously not all 3 in a day) over the past years on saturday and worked around with what i could do within my schedule. so no, i dont really care that much about 1-3 or have to desire to defend it

my point was that there's no reason to say a certain time frame is bad and another is good because every time frame has its own faults for a group of people

[Kuropi]

My point wasn't to say that everyone should be able to make it, because obviously that is impossible. What I should have clarified is that it's easier to clear an evening for a lot of people than it is to clear an afternoon.

And in our case, it is our guild leader that works Saturday afternoons. So you can imagine how this would affect us.

If you're working saturdays for your entire life, well, I feel sorry for you. But 99% of the population gets at least some off. Others are able to swap shifts with co-workers if they're that serious. Saturday evenings are when people like to go out and do stuff with real life friends too, so it is kind of nice to have that option, instead of killing 2 of those hours sitting at a computer. And doing it earlier than 7-9 conflicts with the most popular renewal server for WoE. Bad idea to kill those servers off more than certs and stuff already are, and I think the GMs understand that. Doesn't really leave them with many options though.

[Xellie]

I think that if people wanted to be taken more seriously in these things, they should show some commitment... a lot of guilds didn't have recall during the test woes but they still showed. Valkyrie's leader wasn't on afaik, and they still showed. So the time doesn't suit one or two people.... there was ample time to talk and discuss it before it was chosen.

I'm going to be absent from woe for a few weeks... does that mean my guild will stop existing? Everyone could only wish, but no.

[Woozeh]

who cares about valk woe this is classic choose one 1-3 is a stupid time and yes if the guild leader has work kinda ruins woe for the whole guild

[ClickyHpen]

And doing it earlier than 7-9 conflicts with the most popular renewal server for WoE. Bad idea to kill those servers off more than certs and stuff already are, and I think the GMs understand that. Doesn't really leave them with many options though.

i entirely disagree ! there's an entire rest of the week open, specifically the entirety of sunday. there are 3 woes (if an old event calendar post is still correct) on saturday, i'd have to look back at earlier discussions for reasoning but i am still baffled that another one was considered/implemented. also i imagine 99% is a bit high of an estimate. guess we got stuck with a fair amount of the 1%, then. occupy warp alley, i guess?

and we'd love to show some more commitment, but it's hard to protest the times being bad for us by showing up... because we can't show up. we made a decent run of it for a small guild back on chaos, but many of us now have things to do during the day saturday. we're definitely willing to show up, do things, be (relatively) competitive, but when a fair chunk can't make the time...... yeah. for who can make it, someone's willing to run my guildies around tomorrow, but i wouldn't expect to see much.

[Xellie]

The problem is... read the recruitment boards! There are at least 3 european based guilds going seriously (I consider Valhalla one of them, but we don't really have an open recruitment going on) And clickster, as much as I want to support you, the latest that would be a good idea here would be the 3-5 slot with the number of european players actually taking part this time around.

HOWEVER: I also believe it would be a terrible idea to pull players off valk. And believe me when I say it'd be a lot of players and a lot of them are willing to give up renewal for classic.
Sunday exists, yes, but that messes with treasure days I think. (2 instead of 3) and would have to be one of the earlier timeslots too, preferably the 1-3 slot or 2-4 cause waking up for work on a monday morning after playing vidja games till 2am would suck ass. (I used to do that after the weds WoEs too. Ultimately it was saturday's superlate times that made me stop WoEing completely)

[Woozeh]

this thread is about classic. i think the players who only play classic and cant make woe should be more important than people who want to play both and woe. If your complaining that different times are bad just cause it would be more convenient for you, think about the guilds who also want to woe but cant make it at all. Im willing to wake up at 6am to help with woe because our guild leader cant make it because of work but seriously, whats woe without our guild leader and most of the main guildies. A few extra guilds for woe is worth 2 hours off your preferred time.

[Xellie]

I'm just seeing one guild spamming because their leader can't make it. Honestly that's how it's coming across and I got nothing against you guys, so don't take offense... I'd like to see more other guilds as a whole saying "we can't participate at all at this time!", but it's more like "Oh we have fewer people th an we'd hope for normally"

Do you think this is worth losing guilds like this for? (I'd link to my thread but I don't have one yet! We've been over capacity since server up)
Your arguement applies in reverse you see. For each guild that may be gained (and honestly how many GUILDS will be gained?) some will be lost. The arguement is about more people really, the number of guilds joining the fray is a lot less of an issue. Unless we're talking about some hardcore 40+ member guild, because I can tell you right now... Classic NEEDs another one. Losing any one of the current 4~5 high end guilds would blow.

I agree with the valkyrie vs classic thing, but it is in iROs best interests as a whole to keep both WoEs as populated as possible. if renewal dies, there probably won't be a classic server. Maybe worth keeping in mind during your arguement.

FWIW : I'd prefer the 3-5 slot. 1-3 puts it right during dinner time for my family. Inconvienient! 2-4 also acceptable.

[NoSecks2day]

totally agree with xellie.
1-3 is kinda perfect for european players AND good for American peoples too
its 10pm-0 (midnight) at germany for example.

but yea u cant satisfy all peoples over the world.
there will always be a group who QQs about times.

the magical thing is: to keep this group as small as possible.

and i guess GMs did a pretty good job there /no1

[RonSilver]

REMOVE THE EVENT KAFRAS!!!!!!!

[Xellie]

No, leave them just like on ymir pre-re
Also qq backslide removal

(it's a good thing)

Edited by Xellie, 06 October 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[Aaronnn]

add heal hp/sp for 5k to event kafras?

[Meiji]

I'm sorry if it came across as our guild spamming; that wasn't really our intent. We were hoping for a solution that would benefit more people than just us, but we're definitely biased towards our own interests, as one can expect. You can't really fault us for trying, though, when it's literally the last option we have if we want to participate at all. It's disheartening when you've been working for something for a while (maybe not as hard as others, I readily admit), and it's ended for you before it's even started due to a conflict like this. I know the server cannot cater to every individual player. The 3-5 pm option wasn't exactly ideal, but it would have worked for us. Ideally there would have been another day, but that brings about a plethora of other issues that probably wouldn't be worth it.

I can't speak for my guild members, but I won't argue about this anymore. The point has been made, so any other back and forth would be pretty unproductive.

[ClickyHpen]

oh god, i'd kill for the 3-5 ! i could definitely work with that. but yeah, now i've sort of just moved on to hoping we can move into one of the yggmir slots once that merge happens. i'm told a few of us did show up and break a few things here and there, which was good to hear coming outta work today ! and yeah, essentially it's just hard seeing that you can't really make use of what you've been working on because of something out of your hands. i guess we will just have to wait and see if/how times fluctuate with the renewal merger. working on changing the irl schedule too, but that's obviously going to take time as well.

[Xellie]

If they change I'll be in your position, and I have a much bigger guild qq