98 replies to this topic

[Kuropi]

My idea for reducing the amount of castles:

1. Take one castle out of every town (4 total)
2. Add the god item piece, and all unique drops to another castle in the same town which will sort of make a "super" castle that people would have more desire to fight over and econ.

Guild size and Alliances:

1. Don't see a problem with guild size.
2. Reduce total allies to 2-3.

The problem I have with removing castles is that every one of them in woe 1 is unique. They all have either strengths or weaknesses for both attackers and defenders and you kind of need a different strategy for each one, especially on defense. Also, at the start of the server like this, limiting castles right from the get go is the wrong idea. Give it time to see what happens in woe before you do anything. The attendance of real woe is probably going to be quite a bit higher than the stress test ones. Not everybody wants to be forced into castles with the strongest guilds on the server where they just insta-die. A lot of smaller guilds will probably give it a shot when the real thing begins.

[eljesus]

Just leave it alone Heim! It worked back in the day it'll work now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

omg this, plz don't micro-manage woe thx

[Aaronnn]

The problem I have with removing castles is that every one of them in woe 1 is unique. They all have either strengths or weaknesses for both attackers and defenders and you kind of need a different strategy for each one, especially on defense. Also, at the start of the server like this, limiting castles right from the get go is the wrong idea. Give it time to see what happens in woe before you do anything. The attendance of real woe is probably going to be quite a bit higher than the stress test ones. Not everybody wants to be forced into castles with the strongest guilds on the server where they just insta-die. A lot of smaller guilds will probably give it a shot when the real thing begins.

Reducing the castles from 20 > 16 is not a big deal, if your guild can't fight another guild and needs to take an empty castle, you either:

A. Shouldn't be WoE'ing
B. Need to merge into another guild
C. Need Allies

I think a lot of people can agree on the fact that 20 castles on one day of WoE is too many.

Edited by Aaronnn, 26 September 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[Kuropi]

Reducing the castles from 20 > 16 is not a big deal, if your guild can't fight another guild and needs to take an empty castle you either:

A. Shouldn't be WoE'ing
B. Need to merge into another guild
C. Need Allies

I think a lot of people can agree on the fact that 20 castles on one day of WoE is too many.

Well, you're also talking about limiting alliance side. If competition here is anything like it was back on chaos, I was in a guild that was allied with 2 other guilds, and between the 3 would pull 40-50 people per woe, and they got a castle one out of three woes. Limiting alliance size AND decreasing the number of castles right from the start is going to increase competition - yes, but its also going to discourage a lot of new people and guilds from giving woe a shot, and the new blood we see in woe over time is going to be less than it already would. Those easy forts that are almost empty give a brand new guild that has nofunds, a little bit of treasure they can use to help equip their members and build up supplies so they can eventually fight with the big boys. Without tthat, the members all need to gear themselves, and the guild leader needs a substantial amount of zeny right from the start for supplies, which might all be lost when they can't get a castle because the competition is too tough. Its a fine thing for us who are looking specifically forward to woe, to gear ourselves, but some of the less hardcore players that want to woe more for fun are not going to want to spend the money on unfrozens, poo hats/feather berets, etc. Those castles are needed to help foster the growth of new competition.

Sorry for typos, posting from phone.

Edited by Kuropi, 26 September 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[HikariYari]

Is it possible to disable god item Piece drops until trans is implemented? Or at least disable the quests until then?

[EndovDaze]

I could go either way on this topic. I have been in small time guilds to big time guilds.

And the best time I had was when I was in a small time guild and held off, big alliance, last minute break parties at the "free" castles. We did very well most of the time. And sometimes even scored a good castle.

Those free castles are good for lower tier WoE guilds or guild/alliances to hold and distribute a bit of wealth. Which will help them build up. Both in players and supplies. Holding castles means that thier guild will be more known, which in turn causes people to join the guild.

But if it turns out to be big guilds holding half of a realm then yes, I see where you should turn off one castle.

TL;DR: If the competition is there, then leave it open. If it isn't, then close it.

Edited by EndovDaze, 26 September 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Xellie]

2. Two towns on each day. For example, on saturday you have geffen and luina open, and on wednesday you have prontera and payon open.,

See... I wouldn't bother WoEing then on the weds. The more you split upWoE and the more time you ask out of people, the more thinly you'll stretch the population. One WoE a week means people are more determined to make it and it matters more.

[Kuropi]

I could go either way on this topic. I have been in small time guilds to big time guilds.

And the best time I had was when I was in a small time guild and held off, big alliance, last minute break parties at the "free" castles. We did very well most of the time. And sometimes even scored a good castle.

Those free castles are good for lower tier WoE guilds or guild/alliances to hold and distribute a bit of wealth. Which will help them build up. Both in players and supplies. Holding castles means that thier guild will be more known, which in turn causes people to join the guild.

But if it turns out to be big guilds holding half of a realm then yes, I see where you should turn off one castle.

TL;DR: If the competition is there, then leave it open. If it isn't, then close it.

Completely agree. Leave it alone and give it a couple months to see what happens. Don't screw with WoE before it even starts, PLEASE.

[Aaronnn]

See... I wouldn't bother WoEing then on the weds. The more you split upWoE and the more time you ask out of people, the more thinly you'll stretch the population. One WoE a week means people are more determined to make it and it matters more.

I think WoE once a week is fine for 1.0, but once trans and WoE 2.0 come out there needs to be two WoE's a week (1.0 on one day, 2.0 on another day).

Edited by Aaronnn, 26 September 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[Xellie]

agree

[cybernetic]

None of that WoE 1 and WoE 2 on the same bs though.

Split WoEs 100% of the way.

[ClickyHpen]

since the scheduling thread looks to be aiming towards saturday afternoons, a second woe would definitely be nice for the retail workin' population. i think it was already mentioned over there, but not everyone works 9-5 mon-fri jobs, and in many cases simply moving things around on a saturday is not possible.

i mean, i'm only part of a smaller guild, but the general opinion in the scheduling thread looks like 3-5 pst which is 6-8 est, i.e. no good later/earlier woes didn't get much of a response, either. being in the minority, i kind of expect to lose out here, but i'm still throwing in 2 cents for something i can attend.

[Vendizzle]

Disclaimer: This post is more so about Heim suggestions in general than just the single woe topic:

95% of the people came back to play ClassicRO because we wanted to play CLASSIC RO in all of its Pre Renewel glory. Both the good and the bad aspects of it. A large portion of the server population quit RO (when Renewel hit) because significant gameplay mechanics were getting changed around and ultimately woe/pvm became unfun as the gameplay was ruined. Altering the mechanics and aspects of classic woe and other aspects of pvm like account bound gears from Valk MVP (face palm), no ice walling on MVP maps and completely removing wiz spawn from bio 3 (infinite facepalm) are examples of changes that will lead this new server away from being "classic" and down the road to self destruction. Its like you want to punish skilled players for working hard and teaching themselves to be good at the game and rewarding incompetant/lazy/bad players by "making things fair/evening the playing field". Yea guilds like NET, Insur, Valhalla and I guess Sugar? may be intimidating to smaller guilds, but guess what? I bet you every single one of those guilds busted their ass with leveling/recruiting/MVPing to get where they are. So the plan is to reward their hard work by gimping their ability to set themselves apart from the rest in woe and higher end pvm content? Makes me shake my head.

tl;dr

Stop trying to make us play HeimRO. If you want to improve ClassicRO then give us the renewel interface or actually pay attenion and ban players using grf/portal casting/mp hacks in woe. Other than that, stop trying to fix something that isn't broken.

[Paramel]

I agree with limiting alliance size (2-3) but I don't think limiting guild member size is particularly fair.

I really think this random woe box is an awful idea and really destroys a huge aspect of WoE. I would agree to a reform on the drops of lesser value but to randomize God Items pieces isnt fair to the people who succeed in woe, and defeats the purpose of defending castles. And by reform I mean implementing WoE supplies into the boxes.

Limiting the amount of forts will only hurt the server population more. Smaller guilds have less opportunities to take an end fort and will be forced to either merge into another guild or quit woe altogether.. the exact opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

this^

I also think that both of these are very fair ideas:

And I would be against the randomized WoE boxes. I think a better alternative would be to either change up the castles available every quarter, or take out all the sleip forts and then split their drops over other castles.

I do know that if WoE gets too 1 sided it will be necessary for something to happen so that it remains fun and invigorating to do WoE.

AKA elementary school sports, there are no losers and everyone who shows up and tries is a winner. Why do you want to punish guilds who succeed its not their fault everyone else cannot compete.

[eduard0]

release one or two feud per month...
if the number of castles is the fully, this will ruin de woe

[trahsc]

most of the cool important stuff has already been covered in this thread

the only thing that i would like to add:

the ONLY thing worse than screwing with a system that is not broken, is sitting on the fence for a very long time and THEN screwing with a system that is not broken.

by creating incredible uncertainties, you lose the last shreds of confidence that anyone had in your company.

[Derixs]

See... I wouldn't bother WoEing then on the weds. The more you split upWoE and the more time you ask out of people, the more thinly you'll stretch the population. One WoE a week means people are more determined to make it and it matters more.

I agree with this as well. I have no issue committing 2 hours once a week at a specific time.

[Morlord]

Forget it. Too many easy ways to get around having to officially be allies. If people want to ally, they're going to, even if the option is entirely removed from the game. And alliances make things interesting and fun.

It still would make it more difficult to slave-camp together, they would have to divide their forces unless they want to damage/kill eachother.

For those above GE Lv5, there should be a guild skill reset to relocate them, ofcourse.

[eljesus]

I think WoE once a week is fine for 1.0, but once trans and WoE 2.0 come out there needs to be two WoE's a week (1.0 on one day, 2.0 on another day).

agree

None of that WoE 1 and WoE 2 on the same bs though.

Split WoEs 100% of the way.

^^^^^

[Zealol]

ally plox

[VanHagen]

Well - i'm with most active woe-players (even if i have no woe-guild + no serious woe char yet):

Leave WoE (and CASTLES) like it is - But:
- only 1 WoE per Week (Saturday?) would be okay.
- if so ... don't forget to remove 3days of Treasure Boxes and the possibilitie of investment (7 days of investment without the chance to take, would make things too easy for the big ones.)
- maybe completely remove GL-Drops until you've made yourself an image of the woe landscape (how many guilds playing, is one dominating, and so on)

(oh - and do smth. about bots)

[Ian14]

Insurrection and NET are not trash guilds. You're not going to beat them in a 1v1 legit guild fight while being outnumbered, be realistic. There is no chance for Faction, Sugar or Valkyrie to overtake NET or Insurr, until their players start quitting because it's so boring.

Nope. I don't think so. You'll never know maybe those two guilds were just opening acts. Some guilds are just slow starter. Number isn't everything brother. It's still about skills. I'll let you see when real woe comes out.

@topic

Let it be. Just open all the castles, if it was unbalanced, the players will find ways how to put a fight with major guilds. Most of the players here are not newbies. So, they've already expected this might happen and maybe they've got some conclusions under their sleeves.

[Xellie]

I would have to say from knowing some of the players in Insur and NET, they'll be at the top of WoE for the majority of the time that they play on this server.

Source : prior experience.

[RonSilver]

Leave WoE (and CASTLES) like it is - But:
- only 1 WoE per Week (Saturday?) would be okay.
- if so ... don't forget to remove 3days of Treasure Boxes and the possibilitie of investment (7 days of investment without the chance to take, would make things too easy for the big ones.)
- maybe completely remove GL-Drops until you've made yourself an image of the woe landscape (how many guilds playing, is one dominating, and so on)

(oh - and do smth. about bots)

this!

[Ian14]

I would have to say from knowing some of the players in Insur and NET, they'll be at the top of WoE for the majority of the time that they play on this server.

Source : prior experience.

No one is always at the top. There's always someone's better.