33 replies to this topic

[TwiliteGarden]

Today I was looking in shops and there seems to be a lot of lower level dealers crafting items to sell. It's nice to see this because it shows that there is activity in the lower spectrum of players (especially that they are new players).

What is sad to me is I see all these shops full of crafted items. But the shops just sit there.

In the morning I login and walk around Junon looking at shops. I see a shop full of crafted wings. I see a shop completely full of crafted carts. New players trying to make it in this game. Trying to be a part of the economy and to just survive and make enough zulie to have a decent character. Then I login in the evening.. perhaps 10 hours later. I walk around Junon looking in shops. I see the shops that I saw before with the crated items. Nothing has sold. The shops just sit there.

And what about non-artisans? The best they can do is farm. But the NPC price of dropped items is so low relative to the economy. An hours worth of farming and you you get what? $2 million zulie? What can you buy with $2 million? It's a joke. If you are patient and spend the time farming and collecting items you should be rewarded.

Three or so years ago I remember Andrea and I would farm the Prison for a couple hours then go back to Xita to sell all the stuff we got from the boxes. We used my Bourgs Merchandising skill and repair hammers to maximize our return. In the end we would get like $50-60 million zulie and at that time that was a lot of money.

Something has to change. If I were a brand new player to Rose and I saw how difficult it was to compete with the IM based economy I would probably get discourage and quit. I don't know what the answer is as this is a difficult issue. Even though this is a game it follows the same rules as any real world economy. Economics is a complex subject and so there is not going to be a simple answer.

What about creating something like a new, cool looking, unique wing that would actually be desirable compared to the item mall stuff and only available in-game?

Edited by TwiliteGarden, 04 October 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[xBlack]

i like the idea of creating new wings which is unique and its feather is hard to get like epics or unique items ... BIG wings with cool effects , not astarot or seraph but something really new ! , and some new carts and engines .. and to make it easy to GMS .. they always can get help from players who like to create and design .. then they can Chose best things and put them as new items

[onizuk4]

good idea. i see a lot beginners in junon, they ask for zulie, cause the cant pay this prices to equip their character. its really hard for beginners.

But the problem is, not really much newcomers are joining leonis cause the server-choice is on the 2nd place. When i walk trough adventurers or Zant, its EMPTY?
when i remember 2-3 yrs before, there no place to lvl cause there so much ppl

so what about change the server-choice position for some month?

Edited by onizuk4, 04 October 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[KyoDVenemousCell]

im agreed with you. im farming at lcf using raider and drop rate costume. i can only get maybe 50m in one hour. this game has been better. but now. they need to improve.

[Feuer]

The shortest answer I can give [I'm a sales consultant] is this

Materials availability > product demand > price of demanded product [cost] > items price point [retail] > margin of gain [profit] > gain expended on materials [money back into the system].

Where rose fails is taking the profit and putting it back into the game [away from players, into the npc cost]

There's nothing at all players really buy from npc's that cost any money. 2 pink powders get you a full set of npc jewels and weapon and armor. 5 years ago 2 essense took 5-10mins to get and you made enough to get 1 jewelry piece. But today it takes 4 mob kills to get a few powders.

It would be fixed if the games npc costs were scaled to the economy.

[Bendersmom]

They have to make crafters viable again. IM is fine and all and it is ok if IM costs alot, you want IM but you don't have to have it to play the game, especially at lower levels. But there is no reason to craft anymore other than red or blue pots and the occasional gem. It is extremely hard for noobs to make enough money to get the things they need to level, more or less be good. At least zulie used to drop but it doesn't anymore. I guess they took that out because of the zulie sellers, not sure why else. But at lower levels, say Luna on down, Zulie should still be a drop. And prices at the NPC for buy back for supplies and gear should be raised to help the new players.

Something unique that crafters can farm and then make should be introduced. I know Yuki made some different carts once, like a jeep and a medic vehicle. Get those into the game and craftable not a quest or event item. Get some new wings like stated, Get some other interesting things into the game to be crafted.

The economy is crazy and has been for awhile now. I do not see how to fix it with people not being able to buy IM how else can they get it. Epics are rare so they are higher. Honor and Valor gear are hard to get so those are high priced. But if you really want those expensive things at least you need to be high level to use them so maybe you can earn enough to buy them by then. But lower level, new players do not have a chance. And there really is no way for them to make money in the game. If you give them 1m they think they have died and gone to heaven.....until they try to buy something they see in a shop and want.

I know Leo is working on the balance/skill update and that crafters will be used more for crafting after that, but what are they going to craft? There is not much worth spending the time on atm and the prices for crafted stuff is so low.

[Feuer]

I wouldn't be too shocked if leo throws a surprise into the craftworks at the last minute for you guys. I'm one of those people who wishes zulie would drop again. I get tired of toting around 3K+ weight and only making 50k-150k at the NPC on junk mats.

[BoRnToKoS]

Before new players could just resell their power etc, I remember few years ago when I just tested the game I made a lot of money just by leveling noobs and resell blue powders at 450k each. Now Gms ruined all business u can do. With their powders so easy to get, their drop costume 50% that allowed too many people to get epics/medallions from kings. That fked all the economics. Jewel chest too ... It's better to make it more harder to get. Atm you can get 1k jewel chest per hour at Luna.

[DestinyDeoxys]

I'm sorry TwilightGarden. You are totally wrong because I'm an old player but I can't find any method to make zulies! HuHuHuHuHuHuHu~!~!~!~!~! (not sarcasm, it's for real). My storage always has less than 50m.

It's a waste of time to farm when you either need to "invest zulies to buy MOR/MOF to farm for zulies" or "farming without any MOR/MOF."
Every item on item mall gives you an advantage, so I'm not going to bother to list them.

It's been like this (Buy IM or get out) since this game went free to play.

[BoRnToKoS]

I'm sorry TwilightGarden. You are totally wrong because I'm an old player but I can't find any method to make zulies! HuHuHuHuHuHuHu~!~!~!~!~! (not sarcasm, it's for real).

Lies xD you did well with with making zulies roflmao !

[Aciart]

I agree with you TG; I've seen shops with decent durability Backshields and wings with max stats that won't sell anything for days. I also agree that the Npc's prices should be altered to reflect the prices of the im dependent economy, an increase at the least so these new player's have a chance and don't rage quit because of the impossibility to make money without first having it. Btw, Nice Moonkin Sig. Feuer.

[maxkitu]

It's been like this (Buy IM or get out) since this game went free to play.

Wrong.
I'm totally noob here and I can already buy some items here and there for a few million.
Plus, any old F2P MMO has a "bugged" economy, if it's not because of IM it's because of the excess of money (which makes NPC prices a joke, etc...).

You think newcomers canno't survive in this jungle, but it's totally wrong. In any MMO I've done I arrived late, and I never had issues to get a decent stuff, maybe not the best stuff for my lvl, but something that is way enough to have fun in PvM.

So, you should probably think about what would make it funnier for you, the old players, because newcomers (when they are not too stupid and pay attention to the market) CAN get what they want, not to mention that everything is to be considered free at the NPC because of the economy.

To conclude, I would say that this way newcomers can dream of an item, something that costs billions, and this is what make them feel the same way you felt when you started : good items where unreachable (because they were only a few of them) and you dreamt of it : this is what is cool in this game (PS: previous game I played was PristonTale, an game older than ROSE, and prices were like in this game : 200million for that, 5 billion for that, even 100 billlion sometimes, when the average amount of money per monster killed was like 20-30k).

[tENLAVUU]

Honestly, it was not too long ago that I've entered a state in the game where I can comfortably play without having to worry too much about zulie. And this is after playing for a few years. And I actually still farm and loot just about everything. When leveling a new character, I find myself making over 600m in zulies just from looting chems/dirties/and materials and then vending it or selling to shops in addition to using bourg to sell back useless things that no one buys. I think it's quite easy to make money in this game if you're persistent.

Edited by tENLAVUU, 20 November 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Feuer]

I agree with you TG; I've seen shops with decent durability Backshields and wings with max stats that won't sell anything for days. I also agree that the Npc's prices should be altered to reflect the prices of the im dependent economy, an increase at the least so these new player's have a chance and don't rage quit because of the impossibility to make money without first having it. Btw, Nice Moonkin Sig. Feuer.

It's a Bebeg, located on Mount Eruca on the planet Luna though it does look very much so like a Moonkin haha. I had requested these mobs be made into a costume, just for those WoW'rs who miss their boomkins form haha.

[w4zz4]

I made a big post but I rethought it all and figured it to be overly negative (and this is me editting it out). The meat of it, though, was that due to the current uncertainty regarding intelligence/charm for clerics, I no longer have a valid goal in this game, and I'm going to stop playing indefinitely, or at least until the game finds its new homeostasis.

I levelled 1-210 as a cleric with a group of friends over the last two weeks after the Steam release on Draconis, in case that interests anyone.


Kind regards!


(And the edit I wrote before [this is mostly for OtelDouDou] was such:

Edit: Actually, maybe I'm coming across a bit too strongly. The whole zulie thing is bearable (I think. Maybe.), but the real issue lies in the uncertainty. Maybe I'll come back in a few months when everything settled.)

Edited by w4zz4, 20 November 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[OtelDouDou]

Sorry to hear about that bad experience...

I found actually that making zulies was not that difficult. Of course don't think about buying all those rare items old players are showing off with (faith & co), but enough to buy decent PvM (brave or courage) & PvP (chiva or glorious) gear, as well as epique weapons.

I recently levelled up a knight (not even finish though), and I made around 100m just selling crap to NPCs and chemicals, dirties and some gear through vending. Then with this amount of money, you can start the buying / vending / trading game, which is how I really made money in this game (a couple of billions).

Another way to make money is to play dungeons. Rewards can be sold for decent amount of zulies (lisent, weapons & mounts), as well as valor points.

[w4zz4]

Sorry to hear about that bad experience...

I found actually that making zulies was not that difficult. Of course don't think about buying all those rare items old players are showing off with (faith & co), but enough to buy decent PvM (brave or courage) & PvP (chiva or glorious) gear, as well as epique weapons.

I recently levelled up a knight (not even finish though), and I made around 100m just selling crap to NPCs and chemicals, dirties and some gear through vending. Then with this amount of money, you can start the buying / vending / trading game, which is how I really made money in this game (a couple of billions).

Another way to make money is to play dungeons. Rewards can be sold for decent amount of zulies (lisent, weapons & mounts), as well as valor points.

Thanks for the advice. I re-read what I wrote and made a disclaimer in an edit

[m3talc0re]

Just to add to this conversation:
I've been playing for.. I dunno, maybe a month now? And I'm leaning towards quitting. Things cost way too much and I'm not going to buy IM crap just to be able to afford anything. Spending any money on this game feels like an investment and that's not something I want to do on a game that's so riddled with problems. Gravity either doesn't care or doesn't even bother trying to see what their users want. Take this patch's mount "fix". That's just pure stupidity.

• They break mounts with their "fix"
• Everything costs way too much with farming income so low
• Valor Points are too hard to get for the prices of schematics in the VP store.
• A lot of people, including myself, can't even get into Muris on Orlo
• Orlo feels like it was half-ass completed.
• PVP is a complete joke

I'm sure there's plenty more I just can't think of right now...

[claw68]

you have to work harder and stop complaining about grinding, it's even easier now. it's the part of the process of the game, you should learn to have fun about it.

i even saw you dead, lying in the ground, at sikuku prison last week for a couple of hours. which tells me about something.

IRL or in ROSE you will get what you deserve.

progress = hardwork.

FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS

I do my farming without using any IM stuff [my IM stuff are from other people which i bought by zulie]. I used my curiosity and information gathering skills to know how to gain zulie in game efficiently. I'm pretty much a good lurker and stalker too to get information.

Edited by claw68, 12 December 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[claw68]

• Everything costs way too much with farming income so low
• Valor Points are too hard to get for the prices of schematics in the VP store.

Try hunting for epics in orlo, you'll know why it costs that much. and if you don't want to buy, please kill kings.
Valor quests are repeatable for a reason. You were just being lazy.

• A lot of people, including myself, can't even get into Muris on Orlo
• Orlo feels like it was half-ass completed.
• PVP is a complete joke

Please do the orlo quest. -.- the hebarn ones are fixed now
PVP is fun enough for me. Maybe you are not trying harder.

[m3talc0re]

I may go try the Orlo gate again... Getting tired of trying it. PVP is a joke, plain and simple. If your levels are too far apart (and they don't have to be that much), you can't hit them. It's not just lower damage, I'm not even getting into all the reasons it's a joke.

Wtf drops epics in Orlo? And say for a schematic that costs 400 vp, you've got to run that 14 point quest 28 times. Then god help you if you run the craft and it fails and it was all for nothing.

[claw68]

The King type monsters -.-. and the giant fiery snapper.
and get some friends to play with, you are such a lonely man -,-. you can't really kill a king, level up decently nor do valor quests without a party.

i saw you at the gates the earlier. was making a decision if i'll kill you or not [this is for an orlo quest].

made up my mind

[Hedean]

Dream on people, dream on.

[MaxMan]

for the first post Devs shuld make new wings or backskield like Spider net wings or spider backskield and use spider web as material to craft it ^^

to the rest,now i see way it is so hard to buy materials everyone is selling it to npc,no wonder i can have shop up for days and maybe get 20 auturm and other materials, just saying ^^

[m3talc0re]

That's one of the many problems with the market in the game Max. There's no... organization I guess. Look at Junon and shops are just, scattered everywhere. There's a few shops that group together, like ones near the weapon npc will vend refines and such. And there's a few shops like FOODZ and dreamshop (something like that) that are always in the same spot. And a few pot venders will be near FOODZ's shop, making a nice spot for pot shopping. Other than that, the shops are scattered. Nobody wants to go through and check every single shop and having to click on the Buy tab every time you open another shop just to see what people are buying. And there's no easy way to compare one shop to another other than looking through them all and writing it down somewhere. Unfortunately, in this game, I don't see any way of solving this. The players could fix it if they'd organize together and get a system going. New comers would see the pattern and follow or they would fail. But, the general populous are morons, so... good luck with that one