71 replies to this topic

[Carat]

There are so many reasons we can talk about of trans not having the same gameplay experience as the best gameplay classic so people can discuss here but the main thing is this server is made to be a classic server and it must stay as classic.

this is a classic server and it should have classic content, personally and for many other people trans is imbalanced and 3rd jobs too.
Champion trans of monk for example can spam asura easily and other classes are overshadowed. In classic the Monk is well balanced to all classes I don't think any class is overshadowed against any other class. Also since IRO keeps genuine card effects like Golden Thief Bug, the only way this card is balanced is without assumptio, Priests don't have assumptio and that makes the effect of GTB balanced because in War of Emperium if you don't use thara frog you know you are getting 1 shot but still if you are talking about 1 vs 1 ex. GTB user vs magic user then it is overpowered but its always been in the nature of ragnarok since it was created, you could say the same for the god items being overpowered but again its part of ragnarok's nature to have items that are extremely hard to get but also extremely strong. Items are only small part, classes are the biggest part and classic has the best of all than the successors (trans or 3rd job). There are many other reasons so please reply them! I don't like seeing things that are out of classic content like items,places and monsters.

[Khabal]

Personally I believe that we SHOULD go to trans, but not just yet. I'd prefer another month at the minimum of playing pre-trans, for somewhat selfish purposes- I want to be able to roll over character(s) the instant trans is released.

[Sabaton]

+1 Assumptio in WoE is too OP. Plus if you asumptio the emperium, your castle is almost invulnerable.

[Khabal]

Safety wall on the emp can be amusing as well.

[Viri]

+1 Assumptio in WoE is too OP. Plus if you asumptio the emperium, your castle is almost invulnerable.

wat

You can't cast it in castles and you can't skill the emp regardless

[Sabaton]

Will you set me on fire?

[Khabal]

Being a Tech Support guy myself.. i love that image.

[Xellie]

Let me look at the WoE line ups of most guilds.

oh, they're almost all monk and wiz? That sounds balanced!

Bring on trans!

[Sabaton]

And TKM / Soulinkers plox

[Khabal]

Thats how you can have fun with a good High Priest being soul linked, one-shotting people in WoE with Holy Light. Very amusing to see for sure.

[Carat]

Let me look at the WoE line ups of most guilds.

oh, they're almost all monk and wiz? That sounds balanced!

Bring on trans!

you forgot hunters,sage,crusader and all classes

You just said monk and wizard are imba? well go and look at trans and that's for sure imba by itself alone and for other classes.

its mature to say trans is not classic because it is simply not classic.

wat

You can't cast it in castles and you can't skill the emp regardless

You can outside and 100 seconds is the time you need from entrance to break if you are a breaker with supplies and buffs or even GTB which is a sure break with assumptio.

And TKM / Soulinkers plox

Again very simple to explain, that's again very imbalanced and soul linkers are used more of bot buffer than an actual charcter especially for WoE, that's one of the imba features in trans.

Edited by Carat, 18 October 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Xellie]

you forgot hunters,sage,crusader and all classes

You just said monk and wizard are imba? well go and look at trans and that's for sure imba by itself alone and for other classes.

its mature to say trans is not classic because it is simply not classic.

mmmm no, monks and wiz definately outbalance the other classes. How many sages does a guild need atm really? 2! Monks? 7...10... 15... w/e. Wizard? Lets have 13 to stack MS, gg ok? Throw a high int strings in there and a couple dancers. Don't need anything else!

Thief classes are all useless. Sader? max of 4 probably, but more like 2.

At least in trans the class distribution is much greater.

[Carat]

mmmm no, monks and wiz definately outbalance the other classes. How many sages does a guild need atm really? 2! Monks? 7...10... 15... w/e. Wizard? Lets have 13 to stack MS, gg ok? Throw a high int strings in there and a couple dancers. Don't need anything else!

Thief classes are all useless. Sader? max of 4 probably, but more like 2.

At least in trans the class distribution is much greater.

Some can't play class that requires skill like a monk but that's okay we all know not everyone is meant for the job or if you can't think or care enough about the class your playing, some people who complain about monk is the ones who can't play the class. Saying monks are so many and imba is so irrelevant because monk actually takes skill and not at all imba and well your numbering of monks 7 10 15 is surely tripled in trans also super imba and sages are strong because they are single target double damage even, you can see more sages than wizards on enemy and on defense. Sader is useful because of devotion just like in trans, there's grandcross and if there is angeling card then its very simple to get 1 shot inside WoE. Thief is not useless but requires gear and its the same in trans if you have no gear. Just don't take the replies as a joke and don't take it personal.

Edited by Carat, 18 October 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[Sabaton]

+1, Angeling card will ruin WoE, for sure. Too OP

This topic is gold.

[Xellie]

Some can't play class that requires skill like a monk but that's okay we all know not everyone is meant for the job or if you can't think or care enough about the class your playing, some people who complain about monk is the ones who can't play the class. Saying monks are so many and imba is so irrelevant because monk actually takes skill and not at all imba and well your numbering of monks 7 10 15 is surely tripled in trans also super imba and sages are strong because they are single target double damage even, you can see more sages than wizards on enemy and on defense. Sader is useful because of devotion just like in trans, there's grandcross and if there is angeling card then its very simple to get 1 shot inside WoE. Thief is not useless but requires gear and its the same in trans if you have no gear. Just don't take the replies as a joke and don't take it personal.

lmao ok.

[Carat]

+1, Angeling card will ruin WoE, for sure. Too OP

This topic is gold.

Its not overpowered for WoE since you can get 1 shot with it, there's always the 1 shot factor when you have angeling or gtb in classic at least, it evens out in woe.

[Baturiano]

Some can't play class that requires skill like a monk but that's okay we all know not everyone is meant for the job or if you can't think or care enough about the class your playing, some people who complain about monk is the ones who can't play the class. Saying monks are so many and imba is so irrelevant because monk actually takes skill and not at all imba and well your numbering of monks 7 10 15 is surely tripled in trans also super imba and sages are strong because they are single target double damage even, you can see more sages than wizards on enemy and on defense. Sader is useful because of devotion just like in trans, there's grandcross and if there is angeling card then its very simple to get 1 shot inside WoE. Thief is not useless but requires gear and its the same in trans if you have no gear. Just don't take the replies as a joke and don't take it personal.

Every class needs to be learned thoroughly to be played properly. Most people just prefer to be high end damage dealer OHKO type of class. Trans classes are actually good, if you think about it. You just have to be geared for the right situation. The game wasn't meant to hand you good items in the beginning anyway. If you die a lot in WOE, analyze how you died and how can counter act this.

[Carat]

You just have to be geared for the right situation. The game wasn't meant to hand you good items in the beginning anyway. If you die a lot in WOE, analyze how you died and how can counter act this.

That goes for classic , trans and 3rd jobs but I thought about trans having sinx with edp and soul link , infil thana , how do you counter that, you can't really counter that with the armor property because its easy to swap and a geared champ that spams asura with lady tanee, obviously the only way is to kill them 1st right? but no because they do those skills very fast again and again if you don't die and lets say both sinx and champ has entry level gear but so are you, you'll still get 1 shot because again its the class (EDP and SL) / (asura spamming) its not on the items because you can have the same level of items as the other. If you have the same level of gear to counter you will still get killed. If you use unfrozen you get 1 shot, if you don't use unfrozen , you get frozen. Monks cant spam asura in classic and not only it can't but its balanced on other skills. Its the class power not the item power because lets say both had the same level of gear, the class power still wins and its imba in trans. My main suggestion though is for classic to stay as classic not trans, the imba of trans is not actually the 1st reason , its the fact that it says classic and trans is not.

Edited by Carat, 18 October 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[Xellie]

you forgot hunters,sage,crusader and all classes

You can outside and 100 seconds is the time you need from entrance to break if you are a breaker with supplies and buffs or even GTB which is a sure break with assumptio.

zzz I missed this.

SAFETY WALL.

[Baturiano]

That goes for classic , trans and 3rd jobs but I thought about trans having sinx with edp and soul link , infil thana , how do you counter that, you can't really counter that with the armor property because its easy to swap and a geared champ that spams asura with lady tanee, obviously the only way is to kill them 1st right? but no because they do those skills very fast again and again if you don't die and lets say both sinx and champ has entry level gear but so are you, you'll still get 1 shot because again its the class (EDP and SL) / (asura spamming) its not on the items because you can have the same level of items as the other. If you have the same level of gear to counter you will still get killed. If you use unfrozen you get 1 shot, if you don't use unfrozen , you get frozen. Monks cant spam asura in classic and not only it can't but its balanced on other skills. Its the class power not the item power because lets say both had the same level of gear, the class power still wins and its imba in trans. My main suggestion though is for classic to stay as classic not trans, the imba of trans is not actually the 1st reason , its the fact that it says classic and trans is not.

Use hide? honestly people don't be sitting ducks on your char use skills to defend yourself. A SinX using EDP SB? debuff him! teamwork is needed to win WoE! thats why you have a guild in the first place

[VolunteerMod05]

Dispel for people using Assumptio?

[Xellie]

I'd be a fan of SW yourself and laugh at the wasted EDP

[Sabaton]

That goes for classic , trans and 3rd jobs but I thought about trans having sinx with edp and soul link , infil thana , how do you counter that, you can't really counter that with the armor property because its easy to swap and a geared champ that spams asura with lady tanee, obviously the only way is to kill them 1st right? but no because they do those skills very fast again and again if you don't die and lets say both sinx and champ has entry level gear but so are you, you'll still get 1 shot because again its the class (EDP and SL) / (asura spamming) its not on the items because you can have the same level of items as the other. If you have the same level of gear to counter you will still get killed. If you use unfrozen you get 1 shot, if you don't use unfrozen , you get frozen. Monks cant spam asura in classic and not only it can't but its balanced on other skills. Its the class power not the item power because lets say both had the same level of gear, the class power still wins and its imba in trans. My main suggestion though is for classic to stay as classic not trans, the imba of trans is not actually the 1st reason , its the fact that it says classic and trans is not.

A Champion with lady tanee in WoE, of course. In case he doesn't one shot a gypsy I bet.
Why are you talking about MvP/mini boss cards in WoE? It not relevant to describe the equilibrium between classes in WoE.

btw Monks are more effective at "pre-trans" WoE than Champions are in normal WoE
Even a good champion can't reach the amount of kills made by a Biochemist or a HighWizard during a WoE. I think you idealize the role and the power of this class, it's a very WEAK class in WoE. Same for SinX; Only good players can manage to be efficient with a SinX.

You should WoE at least 10 times in trans class and then come back.


[offensive kirie eleison lvl 1 ftw]

Edited by Sabaton, 18 October 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[Roda]

Honestly, I have to partially take Carat's side for this. Trans sounds balanced in theory, but in practice? Anyone with sharp memory on it knows better. It's still way better than renewal in almost all respects, but pre-trans was the most balanced. one of the problems classic server has now is that it is not actual pre-trans mechanics. Double attack does not add to left hand katar damage, there are equips that weren't around back then, etc. Personally, I would vote delaying implementing trans on classic and making a seperate server thats permanently pre-trans and actually has pre-trans mechanics, but the likelihood of this happening is slim. And if you want proof of the success of pre-trans, the average population in WoE at one point before trans came out was above 3000. And it wasn't just trans that destroyed balance, it was the plethora of new equips, especially battlegrounds equips. Sure, some hings such as GTB card were always broken and OP, but they were extremely hard to get and at least had a few weaknesses, such as lower durability due to lacking a thara frog card. The point was, you had to work extremely hard for it. and lets not forget drops and spawns were much different back then. like slotted sunnies could be gotten by an extremely low chance from OBBs

Edited by Roda, 18 October 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[Xellie]

Double attack does not add to left hand katar damage

This can't be true, back in the day, crits from the left hand did 1dmg if you didn't have DA and my sin isn't doing 1s....