34 replies to this topic

[Hatu]

Hello Dev Team. The following I'm sure has all been suggested 1,000 times over but here it comes again!
I have just returned to Rose almost a full week ago and I already have a wish list...!
There are a few things that do not make sense to me

I have been a raider since the very beginning of Rose. Back in the TriggerSoft days. When GBDW was the highest dual in-game and Grade 3 gems were 1337.
Here are some of my inconsistencies:

- How is it that a champ outruns a raider? Not logical. Heavy armored person outruns a light armored person, doesn't make sense. Since when were Trojan warriors faster than Samurai?

Since I've seen the many faces of Rose... naRose, Evo launch, pre-evo, open beta, closed beta, when p2p launched, etc.

- Dual raiders can now no longer cloak or stealth... Umm, why? What does them cloaking have to do with balancing? All the classes a raider will potentially PvP have access to a 100% chance de-cloaking skill. I've played rose since it was introduced to North America, always dual raider have had the ability to stealth/cloak.
- If a champ can be hybrid, why can't a raider? They can branch out and acquire many skills they're aloud to use with their native main weapons... But when i returned to Rose last week I lost over 5 skills because they require a katar... There's nothing balanced about giving Champs the option to go hybrid and allowing raiders to choose 1 path and not a mixture of the two. It is much easier for champs to mix it up.

If we are balancing the playing field, then why does Champ have an advantage? It doesn't make it impossible for raiders and other classes, it just makes it much harder to compete. Champs now dominate the ruins and their farming spots - raiders have been rendered useless to end-game farming and leveling. Champ can just hang there by himself and farm one of the few good spots for 8 hours.

I feel this is counter-productive to the community of rose, and to the participation of the masses. Solo'ing defeats the purpose of playing an MMORPG. The only thing we do as a whole now is UW.

[Metaleux]

Yep there was exactly the same problem some time ago with raiders, mostly katar raiders using dual skill such as evasive guard and the acc debuff, which made then a bit OP at the time.
The GMs eventually fixed it with the weap requirements on skills, just like it was for champs.

Yes for the ones who remember, champs use to have weap req for skills just like raiders now, but it somehow got removed for champs after it was added for raiders. You would think the same error would not be made twice but meh...
And can smell it coming back for champs just like it use to be ! Wow all this makes sense !

[Hatu]

I agree with katar not being able to use eva.. i think that's one of the changes that was made that is fair.
With their burns, stuns, poisons, various self-buffs and cloak/stealth they are very capable of excelling better than most in UW and in PvP without eva.. We all get to see it every UW lol.

[Phish]

Somehow I already knew what this topic was going to be about before I even clicked it...


I'd rather raider skills not have a specific weapon requirement rather than make champs skills have weapon requirements now.

[iBryan]

They really need to fix champ's mspd though, The AOE's are fine. the rest is up to the devs.

[tENLAVUU]

Somehow I already knew what this topic was going to be about before I even clicked it...


I'd rather raider skills not have a specific weapon requirement rather than make champs skills have weapon requirements now.

I personally don't care which route they go but they should just make it so that since champs can access other skill trees, other classes should have that option as well. In a sense this would create more of a variety in skill tree builds.

[Hatu]

I'd rather raider skills not have a specific weapon requirement rather than make champs skills have weapon requirements now.

To me the end result would be the same, so I would be fine with this. Either way would be perfectly fine for myself and others I think! If there is a dividing line in the middle of my skill tree there should either be,
(1). a dividing line for all
(2). no dividing line

They really need to fix champ's mspd though, The AOE's are fine. the rest is up to the devs.

The main point I was trying to emphasize were the m-speed and their ability to hybrid while other warrior classes cannot. I don't really have a terrible beef with the AoE's xD

I personally don't care which route they go but they should just make it so that since champs can access other skill trees, other classes should have that option as well. In a sense this would create more of a variety in skill tree builds.

Agreed. How they get there, I do not care. My complaint is just so not only champs have the option to be hybrid, but that other classes (not just raiders) do as well. I'm starting to notice tons and tons of duplicate builds out there... With the same exact raiders running around boasting the same stats, skills and comparable EQ. And then you see 5000 champs built exactly the same way - with no diversity. Allowing the hybrid option opens up a lot of doors and only further balances the warrior classes. That way we don't quite see nearly as many 'cookie cutter' builds if you will.

[iBryan]

To me the end result would be the same, so I would be fine with this. Either way would be perfectly fine for myself and others I think! If there is a dividing line in the middle of my skill tree there should either be,
(1). a dividing line for all
(2). no dividing line



The main point I was trying to emphasize were the m-speed and their ability to hybrid while other warrior classes cannot. I don't really have a terrible beef with the AoE's xD



Agreed. How they get there, I do not care. My complaint is just so not only champs have the option to be hybrid, but that other classes (not just raiders) do as well. I'm starting to notice tons and tons of duplicate builds out there... With the same exact raiders running around boasting the same stats, skills and comparable EQ. And then you see 5000 champs built exactly the same way - with no diversity. Allowing the hybrid option opens up a lot of doors and only further balances the warrior classes. That way we don't quite see nearly as many 'cookie cutter' builds if you will.

Yeah i have a champ myself, got to admit that those im chasing is ridicolous, cause not only do i have High AP/acc/def but i have more mspd than a raider lol. Its like having Godzilla chasing you full speed.

Edited by iBryan, 09 October 2010 - 09:36 PM.

[ChickenBucket]

Yeah.... only champ is the only class that is being able to do mostly everything but healing... that's one of the reason i don't even play anymore everyone and their mother has a champ and the dev team keeps making random fixes that keeps them overpowered,remove the weapon req on their other classes or put wep req again on champs >.>

[BrownBear]

As far as balancing goes, it makes more sense to put requirements on Champs than removing them from raiders. But then that kills build diversity. Now, if every class had a well developed skill tree like champs or raiders, then they could remove requirements on those trees for all classes and everyone would be able to make a diverse build without having too many advantages. But as it stands, only champs and raiders really benefit from hybrid skill builds. So with that context, I think it would just be better, for balance sake, to put requirements on things.

[Xros]

I've been saying it again and again, that the best way is to put back the requirements.. and the bonus passive should only come to effect when equipped w/ the right weapon.. so no more OP 4 aoes, all in one character.. etc.. etc..

[Hatu]

Yeah.... only champ is the only class that is being able to do mostly everything but healing... that's one of the reason i don't even play anymore everyone and their mother has a champ and the dev team keeps making random fixes that keeps them overpowered,remove the weapon req on their other classes or put wep req again on champs >.>

Totally agree bro. Several stuns, high AP, high damage, wicked fast m-speed. 1 v 1 is it very difficult to defeat one even if you're a fighting-class type of char... As soon as people begun to realize how OP Champs were we say hundreds and thousands of them. That's all UW is nowadays, that's all TG is nowadays.. The only thing you see in Ruins too. There's nothing balanced about Champ's having the upper hand to literally every other class.

I think the best option is to just put a weapon req on champs, make them choose a weap! Just like raiders. Each class has different weapon types to choose from and Champs should be no exception. We can't have a COTT because Champs will win every match lmao

I don't know about Cott, we had a plan, but things came up, making it get delayed.

[Phish]

If the skills were to be given weapon requirements again then the skill tree would have to be adjusted as well.

For example all champ stuns are now in the axe tree, Sword and spear would not have any access to a single stun. Surely every other class has atleast one stun so it wouldn't make sense for one of the most offesnive classes not to have any.



If anything should be done with weapon requirements it should be with the 2nd Job Skills not the first.



Clerics and Mages can use eachothers first job skills with either weapon, yet THey aren't even the same class and it has been this way for years. Opening up the first job tree to raiders would add some more versatility being duals will have access to stealth and katars can use mirror without having to switch weapons (as well as a weak aoe if they want it).


Of course the 1st job bourg tree could be opening up but these first job skills are lackluster and not very useful.



But again I'd rather not see the 2nd job champ tree restricted either but instead open the raider one.

[BrownBear]

If the skills were to be given weapon requirements again then the skill tree would have to be adjusted as well.

For example all champ stuns are now in the axe tree, Sword and spear would not have any access to a single stun. Surely every other class has atleast one stun so it wouldn't make sense for one of the most offesnive classes not to have any.



If anything should be done with weapon requirements it should be with the 2nd Job Skills not the first.



Clerics and Mages can use eachothers first job skills with either weapon, yet THey aren't even the same class and it has been this way for years. Opening up the first job tree to raiders would add some more versatility being duals will have access to stealth and katars can use mirror without having to switch weapons (as well as a weak aoe if they want it).


Of course the 1st job bourg tree could be opening up but these first job skills are lackluster and not very useful.



But again I'd rather not see the 2nd job champ tree restricted either but instead open the raider one.

They could change the non aoe main line skill for sword and spear into a stun. That way they all have at least 1 stun, with axe having 2 since it has the most useless bonus stat on its passive. Hopefully you understand my description there because I don't remember the names of those skills. Voltage crash was the sword one I think?

[poopiehead]

Yeah i have a champ myself, got to admit that those im chasing is ridicolous, cause not only do i have High AP/acc/def but i have more mspd than a raider lol. Its like having Godzilla chasing you full speed.

LMFAO. they do take bigger steps tho :\

Edited by poopiehead, 12 October 2010 - 05:09 PM.

[Span]

LMFAO. they do take bigger steps tho :\

And 1 hit kill if they step on u xD

[yamz]

and Mage had forgotten

[poopiehead]

and Mage had forgotten

mages are fine

bit slow...but still awesome in pvp

And 1 hit kill if they step on u xD

LOL

[Irtofu]

I keep on hearing people say oh, remove skill weapon requirements for a more builds and so on, but be realistic here, the builds will usually turn out the same cause everyone is going to want the best skills and the best build is usually the build that 99% of the people use. Look at comments made about champs and how they have no weapon req, and how most of the builds are identical.

[DarkGero]

I agree with katar not being able to use eva.. i think that's one of the changes that was made that is fair.
With their burns, stuns, poisons, various self-buffs and cloak/stealth they are very capable of excelling better than most in UW and in PvP without eva.. We all get to see it every UW lol.

katars not being able to use both eva and cloak is fair?
but making it so that duals can use both is?

only difference between the katars and duals is attack power and attack speed more or less duals get more ap katars get more aspeed.
self buffs both sides have burns/poison yup both sides have them sleep/stun yup both sides get access to those too

i agree with most else youve already said but this i didnt quite get.

[Hatu]

katars not being able to use both eva and cloak is fair?
but making it so that duals can use both is?

only difference between the katars and duals is attack power and attack speed more or less duals get more ap katars get more aspeed.
self buffs both sides have burns/poison yup both sides have them sleep/stun yup both sides get access to those too

i agree with most else youve already said but this i didnt quite get.

katars have cloak... Duals don't.
Yes, both sides have self-buffs (katar has access to more, unless you want to sacrifice essential dual skills)
Yes, both sides have poison/burn (katar has more than 1, duals only have 1)

What I'm proposing has nothing to with self-buffs or stuns or burns, it has to do with allowing me to dip into the katar tree without sacrificing 'must-have' skills. Being able to hybrid and get some from both sides. Champs can hybrid and raiders are limited to pick their skills based on their weapon. When I returned to Rose after those skill system updates I had 6+ skills that I had prior as a dual raider that now are katar-only.

[Bllackberry]

COTT will never happen

[Soda]

and Mage had forgotten

I think they need to improve mages def.. Even a bourg survive better than them

[Phish]

I think they need to improve mages def.. Even a bourg survive better than them

THen you have to improve a bourg's defense because 'even a mage will survive better than them.'

[Soda]

What i mean is make their def abit equal to a bourg. I wont suggest boosting the base def on orleans cause it will make clerics def even more higher so how bout a 10? or 15% def passive.