Professions System Feedback

My input? Fix pls.





and just a day later he continues to souldown and amp..

Edited by Meganekko, 07 August 2011 - 01:20 PM.

Missed one. :3

These shots pretty much sum up what the current system is capable of.

My input? Fix pls.

Spoiler

I fully agree with you, however it would probably be much more beneficial as to explain why soul shifting + x2'ing these particular pieces of gear breaks it so much, rather than leaving images with no explanation.

I fully agree with you, however it would probably be much more beneficial as to explain why soul shifting + x2'ing these particular pieces of gear breaks it so much, rather than leaving images with no explanation.

I felt no explanation was needed... Sorry :/ Cause to be honest, this can be done on ANY piece of IM gear.. Imagine the Child Maid set with angel wings and these same Stats, it would still be hard to beat.

You could have a level one IM Wep with 60+ stats >_>

Edited by Meganekko, 06 August 2011 - 06:33 PM.

No its fine, i just mean for the sake of providing accurate and positive feedback, mentioning the cause and the whole "why and how" this is broken just will help i feel much more, even if it is very painfully obvious.

I thought it was said that items that were sc shifted down were going to be rolled back after the next patch, but if it isn't being taken care of, it certainly needs to be.

WEEE IT'S RUNESCAPE LET'S ALL CHOP WOOD AND MINE ROCKS!

I prefer not seeing people with over 9000 in every stat(Exaggeration/hek) even though there are already lots of people with hek stats. It'll just make the people with hek stats have even more hek stats.

Like 100% CD wtf?

weeeee >:U

I thought it was said that items that were sc shifted down were going to be rolled back after the next patch, but if it isn't being taken care of, it certainly needs to be.

i certainly hopes that they roll it back.

that is one hell of a stats...

If they do rollback, I bet bigpig is expecting a lot of compensation.

If they do rollback, I bet bigpig is expecting a lot of compensation.

Good thing he was warned two weeks ago shifting down was being removed.. he only shifted down the week after he was told it would be removed.

I was hoping productions system would lure me as well as many old players BACK to the game. (After all, who doesn't like new updates?) Imagine my disappointment when I realized all I could really do was:

1) Press skill to chop/mine/garden/fish
2) ....
3) Nothing else to do...
4) Minimizes game.

Personally, this system is making me NOT want to play the game even MORE. I can't remember the last time I haven't logged on for a week in the past 2 years.

I agree with the previous posts, especially Rim's and Maronu's. You guys pretty much summed up what is wrong with the profession system.

Another thing... was this really necessary? This system just screams to be abused, I see the intentions behind it (though I do not understand how we would possibly need even more OP gear/IM costumes), but alltogether it has been poorly executed. How does adding more OP-ness help to balance this already unbalanced game?

The first week I honestly tried to find anything fun in professions. Yes, it was new, it was a bit exciting. But why would I have my character afk in a field of crops, when I could do something more productive? I don't log into DS to go afk. This is why I don't log into DS at all now. I also don't log into DS to solo stuff - because that is what I would be doing, since everyone I know pretty much left the game. It took the MMs out of MMORPG. /rant

If you want the profession system to be successful, you need to overhaul it completely. People already provided you with lists of what is wrong with it. Please listen to them.

Edited by Albruna, 09 August 2011 - 09:12 AM.

well i know im repeating myself but im afk a lot (cause of work in RL, shop in DS, other stuff) so professions work out well for me. again it is an OPTION not a requirement for the game. and yes i solo most things

personally id think if you want the bonuses then youd grind it, if you dont want to do it then you can buy the parts n such from those that do it.
your right the guardian stuff looks really powerful, but they either spent the time to grind or gold to buy the parts. I tried it, got kind of
bored myself, but i plan to do more later. I also know people who seem to really enjoy it, it gives a different angle to the game, something that other
people may enjoy vs the populous that posts. I think a bit more clairity on the whole system from the get go would have been the best set, what starting skills lead to what outcomes, and a reverse process - I want this end item, where do i start. though it looks like it will be used to power up equipment the good part is its ingame gold, which gives balance back to the non $ spenders. Also the great thing I see with this is the abitly to move bouses from one item to another, think of all the gold you'd spent on +ing and bonusing a set item that youve outgrown and can not sell.
just my 2 cents

Thank you Ire

+1

About profession may create imbalance, completely agree with Irekire.

The things we get from profession is good, and it gives chances and more possibility to the non-IM spender to stack their character through hard work. It also give new income by selling stuff from profession. Surely the strong one also can get stronger, but they also work hard and spend much time to get it (to get gear like bigpig... wondering how hard he worked ).

As to make it more fun, Maronus ideas is really good. Give the players option to do profession without or with minigames to get better result. And allow us to produce more things.

Other problems (chatting, slow processing, etc) have been explained well by Maronu and Rim. Other things that i find is annoying:
1. Not just debuff "Dont be greedy", but also the price of the profession skill "forces" people to use more character to do profession things. It will be more fun if i can do more profession, because it is troublesome to send item from 1 char to other char for the profession.

2. The time limit "48 hours or item will be destroyed" "forces" player to login at least once every 2 days. For people who only able to play in the weekend it may be problem. I think it is better if u give longer time limit, like 1 week.

About profession may create imbalance, completely agree with Irekire.

The things we get from profession is good, and it gives chances and more possibility to the non-IM spender to stack their character through hard work. It also give new income by selling stuff from profession. Surely the strong one also can get stronger, but they also work hard and spend much time to get it (to get gear like bigpig... wondering how hard he worked ).

As to make it more fun, Maronus ideas is really good. Give the players option to do profession without or with minigames to get better result. And allow us to produce more things.

Other problems (chatting, slow processing, etc) have been explained well by Maronu and Rim. Other things that i find is annoying:
1. Not just debuff "Dont be greedy", but also the price of the profession skill "forces" people to use more character to do profession things. It will be more fun if i can do more profession, because it is troublesome to send item from 1 char to other char for the profession.

2. The time limit "48 hours or item will be destroyed" "forces" player to login at least once every 2 days. For people who only able to play in the weekend it may be problem. I think it is better if u give longer time limit, like 1 week.

My Response:
1. I think the main reason behind "Dont be greedy" is to build camaraderie within the DS community, which doesnt seem to be happening.

2. I can understand how the time limit can be bothersome. A longer time period would definitely help. On the other hand, you can always check it during the weekend. longest time to process is 1 hr and "Aid" cuts the time in half.

I don't see myself logging in again until changes are made. This is just awful

As ArrowPants would say,
noo noo nooo~ D;

At least I can get the long time no see medal now

From IAH's Chapter 4 (New Origin) Patch Notes http://forum.iahgame...5280#post765280

[Production]

Enchant shift : system improvement
Enchant shift success rate changes.
Required items for creating Insurance scroll modified
Modified Soul Shift success rate & maximum limitation from Enhancer items
Required items for creating Insurance scroll modified
Success rate for each level of Soulcraft Expander modified
Required items for creating Insurance scroll modified
Socket Card stat decreased - Maximum : [Lv.6] Cards
Required ingredients increased for creating socket card box
Obtainable number of items modified.
Success rate for Process skill modified

Expanded stat from Soulcraft Expander will not be applied in PVP area.
* Affected areas are PVP, Battle Square and Emporia War. However, tooltip from the status will show expanded stat from Soulcraft. *

I presume we will be getting similar changes soon as well? ;D

I also know people who seem to really enjoy it, it gives a different angle to the game, something that other people may enjoy vs the populous that posts. I think a bit more clairity on the whole system from the get go would have been the best set, what starting skills lead to what outcomes, and a reverse process - I want this end item, where do i start. though it looks like it will be used to power up equipment the good part is its ingame gold, which gives balance back to the non $ spenders. Also the great thing I see with this is the abitly to move bouses from one item to another, think of all the gold you'd spent on +ing and bonusing a set item that youve outgrown and can not sell.
just my 2 cents

Could you perhaps encourage some more of these players who enjoy the Professions system to post here? We've heard from maybe one or two of you, but I think it would be helpful to hear more opinions on what the system does *right* (we've already got plenty of opinions on what it does wrong, of course).

Speaking of what the system does right, I *do* like the idea behind Enchant/Soul Shifts. Those are by far the most appealing parts of the system, IMO (as long as they are restricted properly), b/c they'll probably save players money in the long run and encourage more new players to attempt to enchant or soulcraft their gear to higher levels/grades. I think one of the biggest factors that was preventing our more casual crowd from getting into the competitive aspect of the game was the fact that (before Professions) they would have to constantly re-apply all efforts to upgrade their gear each time they acquired something new and better, while the Enchant/Soul Shift system allows them to recycle all the hard work (and money/IM points) they poured into upgrading their old gear. Since they can do that, they're more likely to try upgrading to the highest possible levels (+16-20, Artifact-Legend), which should help get more players involved in the competition in the long run. I'm sure it's also a relief to many as not everyone can afford to repeatedly upgrade new and better equipment as it arrives -- to fully upgrade a brand new weapon or set of armor every few months would become very costly over time, especially when you consider that many players like to maintain multiple characters with at least decent gear.

I'm not of the mind that Professions does *everything* wrong. There are some good ideas, as I just noted. I just think the execution is poor, since the whole system is rather boring and kind of discourages players from actively participating in gameplay.

As for the "I don't mind AFKing all the time b/c I'm busy anyways" argument, that may be true for a minority of players, but I think it's a safe bet that the vast majority of players would prefer something more engaging -- most players who log into a game do it because they want to *play* the game, not leave it running in the background while they go find something else to do (in that case, why bother playing at all?). And sure, you can argue that Professions is "optional," but why design a huge new system for the game if it's only going to be used by the minority, and then only b/c they have no time for the game in the first place? It just doesn't make any sense -- especially when you consider the fact that there are so many players already who are growing bored with the game (mostly due to a lack of meaty end-game content, which is alarming considering how quickly one can reach the end-game in this game). A highly repetitive, mindless system like the current Professions one is *not* what the game needed right now. It had the right intentions -- give players of all levels something to do that will keep them busy for months and months -- but if it accomplishes that goal by pushing players toward "AFK-play," then it kind of defeats its own purpose.

Keep in mind, too, that the system is still young on our server, and we have yet to see the long-term effects. Imagine how discouraging it will be for new players when they enter PvP, BSQ, or EW for the first time and get one-shot KO'd constantly by players will fully amped, fully socketed gear (and this will happen at all levels eventually, since there are many players who choose to cap some of their characters at specific levels, mostly for low-level PvP purposes). I suppose you could argue that it won't matter to players who don't care about PvP -- but then you run into the fact that, with amped and socketed gear, PvE is going to become even easier than it is now for PvE-centric players, too, which will take away some of the fun factor.

Ultimately, I think it can be summed up like this: If you want players in a game to have fun, you have to challenge them. While the Professions system does in fact present players with various challenges (earn a certain amount of skill EXP, gather a certain number of XYZ material, etc.), it presents those challenges in such an unappealing way that most players likely won't bother attempting it or will quickly give up on it because it isn't *fun*.

There are other games that have introduced systems a lot like the current Professions system that *do* present challenges while remaining fun, and I think that's where we should start if we're looking for a way to "fix" the system with some kind of overhaul. What do these addictive games do that our Professions system does not? I think Maronu listed ideas that wonderfully demonstrate working toward the solution: We need to get the player more actively involved.

For instance, consider the following idea for overhauling the Gathering system (borrowing ideas from other sources, obviously):

Players can form a normal party (up to 4 players) and enter one of four different instanced maps. There will be a different map for each Profession (Fishing, Gardening, Logging and Mining). Once inside the map, they will each participate in one of four different mini-games (one for each Profession):

1. Fishing - All players sit on a dock or beside a lake. A timer is set for 5 minutes. Until the timer runs out, shadows (little fish-shaped shadows) will appear and disappear in the water in random locations. Players can use the arrow keys or their mouse to manipulate a little "lure" cursor that designates where they will cast their line, and press the "X" button or the left mouse button to cast the line. If a player successfully casts in a shadow area, they must wait until they see a tug on their line (which comes with some sort of visual cue and/or sound effect), then press the button again to reel in their lure (only the first player to cast in a spot gets the chance at whatever is there). Sometimes they get the "junk" item for the Fishing Profession, and sometimes they will get fish. The Grade of the fish caught depends on the size of the shadow (bigger shadows/fish are rare and don't appear as frequently) -- and the more players in the party, the higher the chances of high-Grade fish appearing. At the end of the round, players also get a MM-style "bonus wheel spin" that gives them a chance for more fish materials based on their performance (total fish caught, Grade of fish caught will contribute to an overall score).

2. Gardening - Each player begins in one of the four corners of a giant vegetable field/garden. A timer is set for 5 minutes. Until the timer runs out, vegetables will pop up from underground and then quickly disappear again at random locations. Players must run around (PLEASE NOTE: MSPD DISABLED) and harvest/pull out the vegetables, using the "X" button to tug on them until they pull them out (first player to a vegetable gets dibs on it). Pulling out vegetables either rewards the player with a "junk" material or a useful vegetable. The bigger the vegetable is when it first appears, the more times the player must hit "X" in order to harvest it successfully (meaning it takes more time), and the better the Grade of the vegetable will be (higher-Grade vegetables are more rare). The more players in the party, the more frequently rare vegetables will appear. At the end of the round, players also get a MM-style "bonus wheel spin" that gives them a chance for more vegetable materials based on their performance (total vegetables obtained, Grade of vegetables obtained will contribute to an overall score).

3. Logging - Essentially the same thing as Gardening, except with trees (of various sizes/Grades) that sprout up and players using axes to cut them down (again, hitting "X" more times for taller/bigger trees for a chance at better materials).

4. Mining - Essentially the same thing as Gardening and Logging, except with jewels/ores that pop up and pickaxes as the tools.

There are other specifics that I haven't outlined here -- for instance, make it so that each time a player enters one of the "instanced" mini-games, his Fatigue bar decreases by 10% or something. But you get the idea.

Essentially, this is all just building on that notion that we want to get the player more involved in what's going on. No, these ideas are not terribly original or innovative -- it's all just speculative and meant to encourage more brainstorming. Anyways, the way I see it, keeping all four mini-games very similar would make things easier on the development team because they could basically just build the Gardening/Logging/Mining mini-game once and then reskin it for the other two. The Fishing mini-game would probably require a bit more work, but I doubt it would be too much more difficult.

The Profession System is Overpowering the Gameplay.. Maybe Tone it Down a bit, It distracts people from leveling(which is the main purpose of the game) or maybe let people Gain experiance points doing Profession.. So what happen's people whos doing Profession cant lvl, and those who lvl' Cant do profession.,., its like two separate game's in one Client. May be try to make the game Consistent as one.

If ppl r like production solely for afk and other form to get income. Let them have their afk'er job but what they produce shouldn't effect the game balance. Let them process their item with machine that give diffrent gold pouch or item that can be NPC for something PERIOD. Their little slot machine and from leveling gathering skill different rate on gold.

Afk'er farmer shouldn't make more then ppl that work hard in grinding to farm gears, gold, weapon powder cuz those ppl r Playing, spend time in the game community.

From IAH's Chapter 4 (New Origin) Patch Notes http://forum.iahgame...5280#post765280

I presume we will be getting similar changes soon as well? ;D

Just what I expected, good job, I just hope we get the same here, I bet we will.